In this video, I'm going to show you every single thing that I've learned from running Facebook ads for the last nine years. I currently personally spend $20,000 a day on Facebook ads, and it generates me over $1.5 million a month.
The lesson's also going to be pulled from helping over 2,000 service-based business owners spending a combined over $100 million on ads to generate $1.5 billion for the economy. Now, here's how this video is going to be different.
Most other videos and courses out there on YouTube are just going to touch on surface level [ __ ] that's going to get you average results at best. But I'm going to show you literally everything that I know and do from the exact strategy that turns Facebook ads from a guessing game into a repeatable system that generates leads on demand. the new way to beat the Facebook ad algorithm in 2026. The exact campaign structure that I use and that I advise my 1,500 active members in the with you program to use as well to the actual landing page structure that turns visitors into
qualified leads and buyers and how to script VSSLs that basically makes them beg you to buy your service and how to put the entire system on steroids. Plus, you'll see me build out everything live for my friend Sev so you can see the actual results for his business after just weeks of starting this process.
>> How have the ads gone so far? Yeah. So, uh, by the end of the video, you'll have a full Facebook ad system that will consistently funnel in clients and sell your offer on repeat. So, let's get into it and start printing some cash.
>> Now, before we get started with the fundamentals, it's probably important to understand how your marketing works and how to build this out is more important than ever because there's this mass exodus across the world where service-based business owners are realizing that agencies haven't worked out for them. They don't understand the customer as well as you do. They don't understand your service as well as you do. And so when you end up working with them, the ads miss the mark. The language misses the marks. The leads are unqualified. But the person that is the most qualified to do the marketing is the person that understands the customer better than anyone else. No one's more financially incentivized than you for
your ads to generate qualified leads for you consistently. When you get ideas for ads, when you get ideas for messaging, no one's going to be able to act on that faster than you. Certainly not a done for you agency. And the reason you probably went to an agency was you didn't understand how any of this works.
You were just constantly relying on word of mouth and referrals, which is fine.
There's no cost per acquisition on word of mouth and referrals. However, it's incredibly inconsistent. You're just relying on someone you know to tell someone they know about you, and that person just decides to come to you of their own accord. Even if you do work with an agency, you don't understand why it works when it does work, and you don't understand what to do when it isn't working. And so, whether you're relying on word of mouth or you're relying on an agency, you never have true independence over controlling how many leads, how many qualified leads are in your pipeline. And so understanding the simple math and what buttons to
click on a keyboard is the only bridge that you need to cross so you can generate qualified leads for yourself.
By the way, so you can follow along for the next 12 hours, not just passively watch it, we built out a workbook for you to follow along with. If you want to grab that, check the link in the description. Now, before we start building anything together, there's three things you need to understand so you can generate qualified leads for the business. So let's learn that now. So the first thing you need to understand about generating leads and sales with paid ads is I like using the analogy it's a bit like going to the casino except the pit boss is on your side.
Like the platforms want you to do well.
You can count cards and also the pit boss will just [ __ ] show you the cards. So they'll show like this is your cost per click. This is your link quickly for we go through numbers and stuff like that in a moment and you've got basically like three cards that you can that you can swap out and change to give yourself the best odds of success because advertising is gambling. Like everything is measured as a percentage.
Percentage is probability and statistics, right? So the three cards that you've got are we want clicks.
That's how many people click on your ad.
>> Yep. Yeah.
>> And then we can get into the we'll get into like the philosophy of like the right person clicking, right? So we want clicks from the right people specifically.
>> So that's good leads, high quality leads.
>> Clicks in this instance, right? So leads would be what happens >> next, right? So we need landing pages that convert. I'll put conversions that click that you originally got from the right person to a qualified lead. So they go from curious to interested from the conversions.
>> Yep. Cool.
>> Pretty much. And then like this I I'll get into like curious versus committed like once we get into kind of the principles and the philosophies.
>> And then because we're not e-commerce drop shipping doors, we need to talk to people, right? So we need conversational sales processes that close people.
>> Yeah.
>> Make sense?
>> So those are your sales people.
>> Yeah. It could be sales people, could be front desk.
>> Mhm.
>> Reception staff. depends on the business part.
>> So they like answer the the direct questions and Yeah.
>> Yeah. Correct. Right. And certainly like a good sales process is important but it can be made so much easier with like marketing that supports it because usually what happens is I don't like in most businesses they have a marketing department and a sales department because their KPIs oppose each other. So marketing their incentive is to get cost per lead as low as possible. Say look how many leads we got. But if you talk
to the sales team, they'll be like, "Well, all these leads are shit." Right?
It's actually about finding this balance between the two. Because the sales team will say the leads are [ __ ] Marketing team will say the sales team can't [ __ ] sell. But if they actually just like talk with each other, like at our company, we don't have a marketing and sales department. We just have a growth department.
>> And it's measured by like it's measured by >> they need to be aligned. They need to be in bed with each other.
>> Yeah, 100%. Because like otherwise like they're literally two opposing forces.
Like one wants a metric to go one way, one wants the metric to go to the other way. And they kind of just [ __ ] counterintuitive.
>> And then the other thing as well is like what I talk about with with you is the person that knows the customer the best is the person that speaks to them the most. And in most businesses that's the sales reps, >> right? Like that's why our ads do really really well because I'm super tight with the with the sales team. I'm on all the [ __ ] sales team meetings. They just say all the things that are happening and then if they're getting an objection like I just put something in the ads or I put something in the landing pages or the nurture sequences that supports that.
>> Yeah.
>> Right now back to the numbers. You you've logged into ads manager before.
There's like [ __ ] loads and loads and loads of different metrics. Right.
>> So there's only a few that truly matter.
They all measure something. There's only a few that truly matter, right?
So everything that matters is measured with either it either has a percentage sign after the number or it has a dollar sign before it. Right? So the cost per click example would be let's say we get clicks for $1.
>> So for every dollar I spend someone's clicking.
>> Someone's clicking and going to the landing page.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. There's another metric as well which I'll get to in a second which is link CTR. So that's of the people, let's say 100 people saw the ad and one person clicked it. What's the link clickthrough rate?
>> 1%.
>> Yeah, 1%. Right. And then depending on what platform you're on, that can influence your cost per click. So Meta is I'll go through a Google sheet separately, but Meta is a pay per impression platform, whereas Google is a pay per click.
>> And so what's better?
>> It depends on what industry you're in.
>> Okay. So we used to when we were running the with you workshops, we used to have this [ __ ] long ass I swear to God it was like an hour and a half. It was like an hour and a half process going through all these decision matrixes to pick either like Meta or Google. And the long and short of it is just think like when someone wants to solve their problem, do they just go to Google and look for you like or or do you need to create the demand? So for example like a plumber, let's say the toilet starts leaking in
our office. I don't just sit patiently on Facebook and go, "Holy [ __ ] I hope someone shows me an ad for a plumber today." Like, I already have that demand and I already know the solution, so I'm just going to go to Google and go like Osburn Park plumbers, right? Whereas on the flip side, generally speaking, people aren't googling like, "Is there a two-day workshop where I can learn how to like generate my own leads?" It's like, "No, like some [ __ ] dropkick has to swear you're on your [ __ ] Instagram feed and spend $20,000 a day to convince you, right?" So link CTR,
but we'll get to that in a sec because I'm going to go through a Google sheet and show you.
>> So let's say we're getting clicks for $1. Now, like I said, everything's measured by a percentage or or a dollar sign. So if we get to the landing page, the metric that matters the most for the landing page specifically is the conversion rate. So let's say we have a 10% conversion rate. That means every 10th person that clicks becomes the lead. So if we have a 10% conversion rate and a $1 cost per click, what's our cost per lead?
>> $10.
>> Yeah. So we have a $10 cost per lead. So every $10 that we spend, someone's giving us their contact details, right?
Let's say we get to the the conversation part, like the close part, right? Let's say, and I'm just going to do simple numbers again. Let's say we have a 10% close rate. So, of the every 10 leads that we get, someone goes, "Yeah, [ __ ] it. I'll buy it." So, what would our cost per acquisition be?
>> 100 bucks.
>> Yeah. $100. So, now we know every $100 we spend, someone is going to buy something. Let's say that thing is worth, we sell something worth $1,000.
What would our return on ad spend be?
>> Times 10.
>> Yeah. Be 10x, right? 1,000 divided by 100. So, if I double this, hypothetically, that'll go up to two grand. Well, um, if we double, let's go to like this is a really easy one to change, right? Cuz let's say we go from a 10% conversion rate to 20%. What happens to our cost per lead?
>> It doubles.
>> Well, cuts in half, right?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Five, right? And then if we're closing every 10th deal at $5, well now our cost per acquisition is $50, >> right? And then 1,000 divided by 50.
Well, now we're 20x. That makes sense.
>> Y >> let's say at the beginning, >> y >> does it matter like how much I'm spending per day or per week or overall per month?
>> Yeah. Great. Um, so generally speaking, I when like when people are doing our with you program and they're a total beginner, I usually tell them to start with $30 to $50 a day. Now that's fast enough. You can get leads sometimes often the same day most time next day.
>> Really? That quick?
>> Yeah. Because it's just like forcing onto people's news feeds. The other thing as well, not to get like too far into it, but like especially with Meta, when you first start spending with Meta, you you're like in Mark's good bucket and he wants to impress you. Like, well like I said, the pit boss is on your side. And so the first [ __ ] thing he's going to do is go new advertiser, like lowbudget campaign, like impress this person really, really quickly, right? So the the people that spend like $30 to $50 a day. Actually, this is a good point you raised up. The people
that spend $30 to $50 a day, that would be, let's say, $1,000 over a month, they might get a 20x return on ad spend. But one of the illusions is return on ad spend can become a vanity metric, right?
Cuz if I told you like I get a two, this month is [ __ ] down. I get a 2.5x return on ad spend. Probably pretty unimpressed, right? But it's like $20,000 a day, right? So, I make more in a [ __ ] day than someone spending $1,000 a month at a 20x return on ad spend makes over a month, right? So, a lot of agencies or freelancers, they'll just talk about like sometimes they'll just talk about [ __ ] impressions or cost per click. We got you this many clicks and this much traffic,
>> but it's not their problem cuz they don't have to close.
>> Exactly. Right. or like they'll talk about cost per lead or some of them will talk about the sales process but I my true philosophy with advertising is because it is a fin is it a financial driver the true measure of success for marketing is your net profit like the bottom line of the P&L statement now obviously you can take into account like oh what if there's like frivolous spending in other places I'm like I don't [ __ ] care like you got to draw the line somewhere I would rather just take more responsibility and say like look it's net profit at the end of the
day Now there's a number of and what we're trying to do with advertising is again we're trying to give ourselves the best chances of success. Now that's going to fluctuate wildly dayto day, week to week, even like month to month.
Like for example, like me and Tim really want to measure how people's show rates [ __ ] fluctuate based on just the moon cycles. Like it happens. I swear to God.
So, what we're trying to do with advertising is go, all right, how can I make my ads perform more effectively?
Can I get my cost per click down? Can I get my link clickthrough rate up?
>> And then with conversion. Now, conversions is broken up into a few things. I just spoke about one metric here, which is just the conversion rate.
But let's say for example like you're going to be a call funnel which I call a two-step funnel which is someone sees an ad, they click it and then they go to page one which is like let's start your application then they book in a call with you like a discovery session.
>> Yeah. And that arrow has some qualification.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this form here you can add a little bit of friction to say like how you like what revenue bracket are you in, what kind of business are you? Right. Like for example, ours is like you got to be a service based business. So if you're an e-commerce business, you can't even get through.
>> Is it bad if you disqualify those people even though they want to >> they're going to pay you money?
>> It's good to disqualify them. Remind me in like 60 seconds to talk about like pixel conditioning, >> right? So and then they book in a call, but then they got to show up to the call. So then what happens is there's a couple more percentages here cuz I just spoke about one here.
>> You got to nurture them as well. Make sure they show up >> to show up. Right? So then we have a conversion rate for this first page, the application page. Now we have a conversion rate for this booking page.
Now we have a show rate for our sales calls. And now we also have >> close rate, right? So you just got to factor in like what are all the different steps someone has to do. You can get really really micro with this stuff as well. So this application, right, it's going to be a couple questions all in a row. Actually, you brought this up, right? So each of these questions, like they'll load slide by slide, but each of these questions will have like its own unique drop off point.
So for example, you just before we were recording, you saying you added one question that was like, hey, like how much are you willing to spend? And your leads just tanked. Yep.
>> Right. So that might be an example of like, yeah, 100% of people do this, 100% of people do this, and then they get here, they're like, nah, [ __ ] it. Is there a way to see where they drop off?
>> Yeah, like most like form builders will show you. So like higher level you have like an analyze tool type form has one as well. And so then you can again you can calculate well >> if one question has like most people dropping off like do we really need this question or even still like you can implement other like kind of philosophies that I have like can we reward it? So the one that you had was how much are you willing to spend? Well, that's pretty high up on the committed end of the spectrum, which I'll explain probably in an hour or so.
>> So, that that's really more on the call.
>> Yeah, >> exactly. But what you can do instead is ask a like second or third order consequence question that might give you an indication how much they're willing to spend. So like how many team members do you have would be a good indication because if they have team members it implies that you can pretty safely assume from there that they've got a certain level of revenue where or predictable revenue where they know like I can meet payroll on Monday.
>> Yeah.
>> Generally.
>> And do you make that a required answer?
Cuz sometimes in my sheets they don't they don't have some of them are not.
>> I like making making them required questions. Sometimes you can do little tricks, right? So, I used to have a lead magnet funnel and you'd had to give me name, email, and phone number. Name and email were required. Phone number was not, but 85% of people didn't realize the little asterisk wasn't there and just completed it anyway.
>> Yeah. And with that, do you have the name, email, and phone number at the first question?
>> No, you do them last.
>> Right. So what we want to do and like we'll get to curious and committed like um you're only ever selling the next step. It applies to like these questions as well.
>> So last >> Yeah. So actually you raised a really good point. So one really common mistake people make is they just try and sell the end product. You're only ever trying to sell the next step. So the ad is just trying to get the right person to click.
The landing page is just trying to get that person to convert. Right? But if we break it down, if you're a two-step, well, you are a two-step funnel. The first page is just trying to get them to start their application.
>> Second page is just trying to get them to book a call. The nurture sequence is just trying to convince them to show up.
The sales call now, that's where we actually sell.
>> Real quick, if you are enjoying this and you want to sit down with us for 2 days to build out your meta and your Google ads, just like we are in the room right now, we've got some upcoming workshop dates. Um, you can also join us online if you want to do with your express if you can't make it to one of the cities.
But if you check the links in the descriptions, there should be some landing pages so you can learn more about that and we can see you on a workshop.
>> What about the value proposition early on where you have this paranoia that in the call you can convince them that it is for them but they've somehow disqualified themselves in this process.
>> Yeah. So that's this balancing, right?
So, one of my philosophies is dials versus dials, not switches, right? So, it's all about like this constant balancing act because again like you can consider like they're basically drawn out as dials. You can consider this as a dial or this a dial and this is a dial and then it's like how do we dial this up or down, right? For I'll give you a perfect example. Let's say um actually no, this is a perfect example. So, we used to have this client um and they were like really really high tech internet, but the problem was a lot of
people were clicking the ad cuz they thought it was like an iPhone hotspot.
And so then what was happening was they were clicking it think it was like an iPhone hotspot. So the link click rate was really really high. But then the conversion rate on the landing page was terrible cuz they're like why is this $25,000 a day and take two staff members to operate? I thought it was just my iPhone hotspot. This is a ripoff, right?
And so it netted out a really, really high cost per lead. What we did instead, we made the ads deliberately tech jargonheavy so that less people clicked it, but the only people that clicked it were like [ __ ] nerds that worked at like it at like hotel conferences and stuff. So the link clickthrough rate went down a bit, but the conversion rate went up heaps.
So with the click, if if they're not clicking, that means you're not spending money.
>> No, >> that's good.
>> No, no, no. So it it depends. So if you're on if you're on uh Meta, it's pay per impression. So when people see it, >> you get charged. Google is cost per click. So you only get charged when they >> Yeah. But running both, I know we're going back and forth here, but running both is is ideal.
>> I generally tell people just run one.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Like you only have to get like one math formula right. Yeah.
>> So let's say for example, actually this is really common mistake that business owners make when they're in the widely program is they go, "Oh, Brandon, like Facebook's gone really well. Like should I do goo I'm going to do Google now." I'm like, "What the [ __ ] for?" I'm like, "So this is really important, right? I I [ __ ] I I had to add this part to our intro because we had like this one member. It was Jacob Stella. He's every [ __ ] call. So he came to advisory call with me and then he had like he's like Brandon like I'm getting like a 21x
return on ad spend. Like what funnel should I make now? And I was like wait what how much you spending a day? He's like 50 bucks a day. I'm like go [ __ ] spend $100 a day. Let me know how it's going next week. He's like no don't make any other funnels. I'm like no. And then he comes back the next week. He's like Brandon it's still going really well. I was like 21 extra turn on ad spend. Like what like what ad should I make now? I was like, "What the [ __ ] did I just say last week, bro?" He's like, "Spend more money on ads." >> Yeah. So, so from a science background,
the variable that you're changing there is the ad spend.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You just [ __ ] like you just dial this in >> and then and then you just go to the like the key metric I didn't even [ __ ] talk about was just ad spend up here. I did this as well, but the the key metric with more ad spend, for some reason, people think, oh, more actual ad creative or more funnels, it's like no, don't make it too hard. Do more ad spend for the one >> and until it starts to slow down.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So, for example, like at lot and I talked about this earlier. So, ad spend, as you spend more on ads, your return on ad spend will decrease because you'll go to colder and colder audiences, right? So this is a bell curve. I I'm borrowing this from Jeremy Haynes. So he I think and I think he got it from a book called I can't remember but basically when you're spending like baby budgets like these are the people that like convinced and like never buying. Like it doesn't
matter what you [ __ ] tell them, right? So it's like this section here, they're just never going to buy. Don't even [ __ ] worry about it. These people here, they're like which when you first turn your ads on, like they already know they had the problem. They already know they want a solution.
They're just [ __ ] waiting for someone to pop up on the news feed. Like these are just layup deals. And then as you spend more on ads, you reach this colder and colder audience, right? It's kind of like with a funnel. Like same thing.
These people are these people. And then you go to colder and colder audiences.
And so these people need more convincing, right? That's when your cost per lead goes up. But again, we want to look at net profit, right? So, I would rather get 5x spending $10,000 a day than 10x spending $1,000 a month.
>> So, going back to the Facebook and Google metric, uh which one to use? Uh >> ideally, most people should start where >> just one platform. So, it depends. So, the same circling back to what I said before, like if they if they're already looking for you on Google, just run Google.
>> How would you know they're looking for you on Google?
>> Just do a Google search and just see if your competitors pop up. That's the easiest one. So like do do your competitors pop up or is it just like research like blogs and stuff like that?
That's a really really easy one.
>> So if I can see sponsored ads on Google Yeah.
>> for my competitor, I should be running Google ads.
>> Yeah.
>> How do I know I'm running I should be running Facebook ads?
>> So Facebook ads is the other way. So if there's not demand on Google, then you can create demand on Facebook.
>> Mhm. And then from there, when once there's demand on Facebook, >> you just let that rip, right?
>> Yeah. You just keep cruising. Now, there's an exception to that. Like I I haven't opened my [ __ ] Google ad account in like four years, three or four years. Um but what we're going to do now is run a brand uh brand protect campaign. So, what will happen is as you spend more on Facebook ads, people will see your name heaps and then try and find you on Google later. Happens all the [ __ ] time. And so you want to be able to just like capture that demand pretty. It's like the easiest [ __ ] lead.
>> That's when you evolve into that second campaign.
>> Yeah.
>> To really >> if you want I can't be [ __ ] So I'm going to get Kira to do it.
>> So you create omniresence pretty much which is which is good. Now circling back to where we're going with this >> the nerds that are clicking on that uh that initial one.
>> Mhm.
>> The right ones is what you want.
>> The right ones. If you're getting less clicks, that means the creative is not convincing enough. Correct?
>> If you're getting less clicks, it could be either you're showing it to the wrong person or you're not building a strong enough argument.
>> Now, do we start talking about Andromeda here in terms of showing?
>> We'll talk about that later. So, basically, Andrometer, just so I don't completely dodge a question, Andromeda is basically an algorithm update that rolled out in July, June or July 2025.
And basically, they just reward creative diversity. If you just Google like meta andrometer update, there's an blog from engineering at Meta that explains it in [ __ ] nerd speak. The long and short of it is just have lots of different ads running.
>> That's what I'm getting at. If you're having lots of different ads running for the >> Oh, no. You don't need to spend more on ads if that's your question.
>> No, no, no. It's not more on ads. It's more creative to warrant >> to help the Andrometer then so that more of the right nerds click on the first >> Exactly. because it wants to find like it wants to match ads perfectly and it's really [ __ ] good at doing it. Like it's true. Like Facebook has allegedly 57,000 unique points of data on every single user. I reckon it's more.
>> And so it's basically alien technology.
>> Yeah.
>> When it comes to predicting human behavior.
>> Like you ever had a dream about a product and then it popped up on your newsfeed the next day?
>> Yeah. Like how the [ __ ] >> So can we go back to that example of the hotspot one?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What did you do next?
>> So, what we were doing there, literally all we did there was we just made the ads only speak to tech nerds so that all the people that were just like thinking it was iPhone hotspots, they just kept scrolling, didn't click it.
>> Now, I don't have time. What if I don't have time to figure out we need to specifically target tech nerds cuz I've got a business to run. I don't want to.
>> So, you already know those. You already knew you had to target tech nerds. So like one of the problems with agencies is so you how long you've been doing your business for?
>> How long?
>> Yeah, like five years, right? Let's say you get an agency in and you get assigned to some chick called [ __ ] Sarah and Sarah's just like got juggling 15 to 25 done for you clients at once and then that she does like a 45minute onboarding call with you where she tries to download half a decade of your experience. like she's not going to be very successful like so all you need to know is like yeah because the other thing as well is you speak to your customer all the time and so you know
the the lingo that they use right actually the problem that we had this was back when we were done for you agency back in 200 I think we had this client like 2020 or 2021 the problem we had was trying to download this tech jargon it was the biggest bottleneck we have like what the [ __ ] does that mean and then we didn't know if we were using certain words in the right way happens all the time people join the with you program. They're like, "Yeah, my agency just like used the wrong industry lingo and then my customers were reading it
and like this is [ __ ] wrong. You look stupid." >> And the to get the right lingo, the best person to do that is the business owner.
>> Yeah, exactly. And people like they think it takes like all this [ __ ] time. Like it doesn't. And then the other thing is like, "Oh, it takes so much time. So, I'm going to get an agency." The agency [ __ ] doesn't have time either cuz that like the the account manager Sierra has to juggle like 15 to 25 clients at once. Actually, I was just doing a skills assessment with um no, sorry, it was a culture fit assessment with this ad specialist. She didn't end up getting the job for other reasons, but I asked her what she liked and didn't like about where she was working at the moment, which is an agency. And she didn't like the fact
that she had to basically her her whole job was just focus on clients that were about to leave and just stop them from leaving. And so that meant you you know when you you go to the circus, you have those spinning plates, you you only focus on the plate that's about to fall and then the other one starts falling.
It's the same [ __ ] thing, but it's like with people's ad accounts.
>> The best way to stop someone leaving is to generate them more bottom line.
>> Yeah, exactly. But but the problem is they can't do that like 25 clients at once. And so they've just got to try and stop plates from falling and then one dips and then they go to that one.
>> Okay. So let's continue this three step process or two-step funnel.
>> Can we complete that analogy with the uh hotspot, the mobile hotspot?
>> Yeah, cool. And so all we did there was we made less people click it. But then because we had the right people clicking, >> the conversion rate on the landing page went up heaps because it was the quality of traffic, right? So for example, like let's just say I send a,000 clicks to a landing page that's about t-shirts and buying t-shirts.
>> Mhm. But you send them to a landing page to buy Ferrari SF90s, you will have a flat conversion rate of zero, right? Because their expectations don't meet reality, which is another one of my principles we'll get into.
>> Why would people >> cuz they're [ __ ] [ __ ] That's why, right? So, it's like, you ever like clicked an ad and like it just like doesn't meet your expectations at all >> every day, >> right? And so all we're trying to do, and I'm kind of jumping ahead here to like meeting expectations, is we're trying to set expectations the whole way down, right? I'm kind of jumping ahead, but like >> if the ad does a perfect job of setting expectations, you'll have a very, very
high landing page conversion rate. And so there's small changes in lingo that you do, right? We don't want to send anyone to the landing page. We want to send the right people. M >> it's this um dials versus switches principle I have right which is sure there's quantity of traffic we're getting but there's also like the quality of it too >> and then there's this inter relationship between like all three right cuz let's
say we get really good clicks we get really or we get really curious leads and they get to a sales process and I think you've had this problem in the past where they were expecting like a free consultation Yeah, >> right. And so you had a really poor conversion rate, >> right? But you had like all these stats were up, but then this tanked down here.
And so what we want to do is we want to find this balance. You were setting expectations that it was a free consult or maybe you add friction, get less bookings, but they're expecting a sales pitch. And so you find this balance.
Often what I see is it is a it is truly a balancing act because sometimes what can happen is if you get really high performance on this end it tanks this end >> hard and vice versa if you take a little bit of a hit here >> close rate goes up.
>> Yeah.
>> And so it's about finding this balance.
>> Yeah. It's not which one it is, it's finding that balance. And that's what I've been really working towards over the last 6 months. I'm finding that I'd rather tank over there and have a higher close and then the calls are more fun because the people are pretty much ready to buy. I just >> not need to stuff it up.
>> Exactly.
>> And yeah, the the close here when I was starting off it was a consult. It was a hey brand strategy and what about >> pitching? When I went to pitch, they none of them were ready. They >> Yeah, they were didn't meet expectations, right? cuz the expectation was set. This is a free consultation.
>> Y >> make sense?
>> Yeah.
>> Cool. So that's that.
>> Now that we understand the three C's, we're going to hop on my laptop and go through a Google sheet you can use to forecast all these numbers.
>> All right. So this is a Google sheet that um we use and that our members in the W with your program use to basically calculate how ad spurn turns into revenue and calculate how small incremental changes can have pretty substantial effects downstream. Um there's also other like templates. So if someone's a onestep funnel on Meta or if they're running Google cuz the cost per click is calculated differently but for service particular instance uh and anyone advertising on Facebook and Instagram meta use a CPM model. So
basically we had the inputs up here. So daily budget I usually recommend that our members start with $30 to $50 a day.
I find that it's fast enough you can get results same or next day quite often, but slow enough that if a couple days or weeks goes by and it doesn't go fantastically, you haven't burnt hundreds or thousands of dollars uncomfortably. Um, if you do want to get results faster and you have the cash flow for it, I would encourage you to spend more because like I say, like if someone's spending $100 a day and someone else is spending $1,000 a day, the second person is going to learn in
one day, which the other person what the other person's going to have to wait 10 days to learn. There's a caveat to that in terms of like how many like a single day of the week is still a small sample size of data, but the principle holds relatively true. Uh, so let's say we're spending $50 a day and we we're selling something worth $3,000. That means in an average 30-day month, we're going to spend $1,500. Now, CPM, now this stands for cost per mill. It's basically how
many dollars do I need to spend to get 1,000 impressions. So, an impression being your ad got seen. Now, this goes up or down based on so many different metrics. audience being one like how how expensive it is to advertise to this audience that's essentially dictated by marketer supply and demand. So how many people are in that audience and also how many other advertisers are trying to get the eyeballs of that customer. So for example targeting business owners
generally slightly more expensive. It also depends on what you're advertising as well. So if you're in the finance space um particularly like investment properties you'll typically receive higher CPMs. the type of content um that you're doing as well. So, for example, images typically receive a slightly lower CPM than videos. Um there's so many different ways the CPM is calculated. If I was to give you a ballpark B to C around like $30 to $40.
Uh B2B I think my CPM is like 70 and then finance space is usually a little bit higher than that. Like I remember I was doing the ads for property investment and the video ads were like $200 and then when we swapped to image ads it went down to like 90 or $100 CPM.
There are ways to fix the CPM. Uh like for example changing your messaging, changing your audience, changing the type like if it's a video or or if it's an image. Generally speaking though, and this is a broad brush statement, generally speaking, the CPM usually isn't the issue. It is worth paying attention to though. Um, but yeah, hey, if this has been helpful, we're running two-day workshops both in Australia and at the time of recording this very soon in the United States. So, if you'd like to apply for a seat in a workshop and actually be able to do this with us in person, as well as get us hold your hand
for 6 months afterwards, there'll be some links in the description so you can learn more about that and apply for a seat. So, um, if we're getting 50,000 impressions now, link CTR. So, this is what percentage of these 50,000 people click the link. Now, this is where the kind of gambling analogy that I use comes in because we're trying to increase our odds of things. So, if we have a 1% link click for rate, that means 1% of the 50,000 people that saw it are going to click the link and go to the first step of the funnel. So, that
means we're getting 500 clicks. Now, this is where our cost per click is calculated, right? So this is if we're receiving this many clicks, then our cost per click is calculated at um $3, which is just simply 1,500 / 500. Now optin. So this is the first page of the funnel. So if we look at our page, it'd be what percentage of people complete this form here. Let's say we get a 5% opt-in rate. I typically want to see a
opt-in rate between 5 and 10%. Now, caveat to that, this does go down as you reach colder and colder audiences. So, for example, my option rate is 3%. But I'm spending, I think at the moment, $24,000 a day on ads at the moment. So, I'm reaching colder and colder and colder audiences. When you're spending like if you're spending 50 bucks a day, which is like [ __ ] all, you should be getting between like 5 and 10%. If we have 500 people hitting that landing
page and one in 20 people opt in, that means that month we got 25 people that completed that form. So, we're getting leads for $60. Because we're a two-step funnel, they then get sent to a booking page. So, this calendar widget here, not everyone's going to book, but let's say we get 30% of people booking. That means of those 25 people and one in three are booking, that means we're getting eight bookings that month. So, every $200 that we spend on ads, someone's booking something into the calendar. However, simply booking something into the calendar doesn't mean that they're going
to show up. We want them to show up. So, that's where this next metric comes in called show rate. So, let's say we get a 60% show rate rounded. That means we're going to get five. We're going to have five conversations that month. So, every $333 we're speaking to someone. Now, let's say we have a close rate of 30% ballpark one and three rounded. That means we're getting one deal that month. So we've spent $1,500 and sold one product for
$3,000. So we've got a 2x return on Aspen. I think this rorowass is 2.63.
This is calculated without rounding. So you can kind of ignore that. But in a year that means if we just left this on essentially and it maintained, we'd spend $18,000 and get 48k back that year. It's not that [ __ ] exciting. Then what we do is we look at all these numbers in red and go, well, which ones can I increase?
Right now, let's say we go from a 1% link clickthrough rate to a 2% link clickthrough rate. Like, what happens?
Seems like a small increase because you naturally just think 1%. But what happens is everything downstream doubles because we don't spend any more money on ads. We just are more efficient with the existing impressions. So, we're still getting the same amount of impressions.
It's just twice as many people saw it and clicked it. So, now we've gone from spending $1,500 and getting, you know, $3,000 back to $1,500 and getting $9,000 back. Again, this one has to there's a rounding function on this here, right? So, now we're at like a 5x return on ad spend.
Let's say we go to the opt-in rate and we go, "All right, how can we lower physical or psychological resistance?
Can we change the headline to make it more compelling?" Let's say we go from five to 10%, which is the upper end of the range that we kind of want to sit in. That means now we're getting leads for 15 bucks instead of 30 bucks. And now we've turned $1,500 into $15,000, right? So, we're at a 10x return on ad spend. Let's say we go to the booking page and we open up the availability more so that more people can book in time. So, we go to 50%. Generally speaking, I see booking pages average
between 30 and 50%. I think ours is 60 and the highest I've ever seen from one of our wy members is like 85%.
No [ __ ] idea how they do that to be completely honest. But if we go from 30% to 50%, now we're spending $1,500 and getting $27,000 back. That's great.
Let's look at the show rate. Let's say we get from 60% to just 70%. Generally speaking, we want to be around 75%.
That means now we spent 1,500 bucks and got $33,000 back. And let's not even touch the close rate, right? Well, maybe [ __ ] it. Let's go like 40%. Right now, you can see we we haven't spent any more money on ads. We've just spent $1,500 a month and turned it into $42,000 and nearly getting a 30x return on ad spend.
Right? If we just leave that for a year, we just let this cruise and maintain this, maybe just adds some new ads every now and then, in that year, we'll spend $18,000 and spit out half a mill, right? It will just add half a million to your business bottom line. And then I thought this next part was obvious, but we had um I mentioned this story like every single workshop. We had Jacob Stellar in and um he came to an advisory call with me and I think he was getting a 21x return on ad spend. He's like Brandon, I'm getting
a 21x return on ad spend. Like what ad should I make next? I was like what? I was like what are you spending like a day? He's like 50 bucks. I was like go spend a h 100red and [ __ ] let me know what happens next week. He's like no don't make any more ads. I'm like no. So he spends a 100. it [ __ ] maintains and then comes back the next week or week after he's like Brandon it's still like 21x like what funnel should I make now I was like [ __ ] [ __ ] did I say last week just spend more on ads like yes just [ __ ] cuz like once this
is dialed in there will be this temptation to be what I refer to as a cautious calculator which is before they spend an extra [ __ ] $10 a day on ads they want to see if they can squeeze like an extra percent of efficiency out right just like little [ __ ] changes when the [ __ ] easiest thing to do is just go to the daily budget and just let a [ __ ] rip. Just don't be a [ __ ] Like this thing is working. Just maximize the bottom line. Right now,
there is a caveat to this. Will I get am I getting a 28x return on ad spending spending $25,000 a day? Like, no. I wish I was making $21 million a month. I will eventually. It's just not [ __ ] right now. these metrics will start to deteriorate like over time, right? Like show rate might go down, close rate might go down, CPMs might go up or link clickthrough rates go down. Like the as you go to colder and colder audiences, but this is a very key point that I want
to make here because return on ad spend can very much become a vanity metric, right? So if you just look at this and go, "Oh, brand's gone down from 27x to 2.7." like your knee-jerk reaction is, "Oh, that's not good." But look at the difference. Like even at these stats here, and I just picked random stats.
We're spending $750,000 a month on ads, but we're getting $2 million back. Like when you factor in like wages and salaries, like the few other expenses that you might have, that's still like healthy net profit. And this is the point that I want to make. Return on ad spend can become a vanity metric. If you talk to a lot of agencies, they'll say, "Oh, we got you this cost per lead or we we got some of them will be like, we got you this many [ __ ] impressions." And just completely [ __ ] ignore the rest of this equation. How do you measure the
growth of your business and the success of your business? Frankly, it's net profit. It's the bottom line of the P&L statement, right? Like I would rather get a 2x return on ad spend and pocket a quarter million dollars a month than I would, you know, getting a 10x return on ad spend. Spending $1,000 a month and then what I go like $6,000 a month profit or something like that. It's like [ __ ] you do if you're doing these numbers, you do that like [ __ ] before
you wake up in the morning. It's a great feeling. If you want to find these numbers, we'll have a section in this video about optimizing. So like what do these numbers look like on the ads manager interface. Generally speaking, everything that's up in clicks is going to be on your um in your ad account.
Everything under conversions is under higher level like under the stats tab.
So rate is a little bit different. There is a reporting feature in high level that lets you calculate show rate. Um just on a tactical note though I still to this day our sales team of 10 currently 10. Um, we still track everything in a Google sheet and so every single sales rep just shares one Google sheet and they have to manually update how many calls they've had booked, how many calls I've had attended, how many calls have had closed. Um, I actually prefer that
rather than automatic tracking because the manual action, the manual activity where they have to update their stats and then also see how they stack up against everyone else makes them perform better. Like I want you to know on a day to like hourly basis how you stack up against everyone else and how you're tracking for this month. I don't want you to find out an automated report at the end of the week when 7 days have already passed. Now that we understand the quantitative data, here are the
qualitative principles you can use to look at your advertising through. All right, so I've got 10 principles for advertising. They're basically lenses and principles you can look through to diagnose your advertising, make things do better, just understand things at like a pretty high level, right? So, the first one, I'll explain in a bit, but first one's going to ask you a question.
Can you just rate that piece of art on a scale of 1 to 10?
>> Van Go, I mean, yeah, seven or an eight based on understanding his brand.
>> Cool. Okay. Well, that's interesting you said that. So, why did you give it a seven or an eight? just a familiarity with the person who painted it.
>> Okay, cool. So, like you're familiar.
>> All right. What about this one?
>> Uh, I like the watercolor theme. Uh, let's go 67.
>> 67. All right. Cool. What about this one?
>> That looks something That looks like something I'd put up on my wall. So, yeah.
>> Solid nine.
>> Yeah, solid nine. So, why is that? Uh I just like the uh the message that it sends me and it's like >> and why do you like that message?
>> It uh creates a dream state for me.
>> Yeah. So like the first principle for advertising is advertising is an art versus science.
>> So the art is within the laws and the policies of whatever platform that you're on. You can do or say whatever the [ __ ] you want. The science is how do we measure that with a number? Right?
So, I was getting you to rate things on different scales and so you rated them differently based on a few things like one was you said was familiarity, right?
You'd seen them a lot. Now, I don't want to get too into the weeds of this one, but like that's that's a very common one, right? So, they did a study back in the I think it was the 70s or the 80s.
They took a bunch of university students into a room. they flashed up on a projector screen like shapes and symbols that they knew they had seen or sorry that they like knew like that's a square, that's a triangle, that's a whatever, but they didn't know which one they'd seen the most. And then they just took them into another room and just asked them which one do you like the most? And they consistently picked the shape or the logo that without knowing
they'd seen the most times. And so the joke that I always make in our workshops is like you don't really like your friends and family that much. They've just served you the most impressions across your lifetime.
>> And so familiarity is one. And then you had the other one which was like, uh, I like the You gave it a six, right? Which was like that art pastel thing.
>> Yeah.
>> Like why'd you rate that one lower?
>> Uh, it's nice, but it's not something compared to something else I would like.
>> Yeah. Right. You're familiar with it.
Like and another thing that people will say when I ask them this question is like the context matters like the placement. So I did this with Cody, right? And Cody I showed Cody I think it was the same piece and he was like ah like it looks okay. I don't really care for it. It looked good in a cafe and so the placement matters, right?
Advertising has different placements. So if you're on your reels on your story on your news feed, wherever it is, right?
And then we had Napoleon. So you rated that the highest. You rated that nine, right? And that's probably because like it's a it's a masculine like piece of art. It has like themes of like conquering and war and so you rated that one higher probably based on the fact that like just your upbringing, your values, your personality. So that one resonated with you better. But there's no piece of art that every single person on earth rates the highest. Everything
is like an art, right? So advertising when you really boil it down is an art as well. And so it evokes an emotion and that emotion is going to lead to how responsive you are to it. So you'll be more responsive to one ad than you will another ad. And the reason you'll be responsive to that ad is because it will evoke different emotions and it will send different messages. People often say that you know the art speaks to them. It has some kind of message. People will interpret things completely [ __ ] differently, right?
And so what we want to do is accept the fact that everything will work to a degree depending on the placement, depending on the audience, and just letting go of like advertising. They'll speak a lot about like best practice, right? So they'll say stuff like your hook needs to be like here's the 10 hooks that you need to use, right?
Here's like the here's I'll give you a perfect example. So remember um I was thinking about this morning. remember when you texted me you were setting up your ads and you were like I think I [ __ ] these ones up so I labeled it and then you messaged me like two two or three days later was like hey can we fix up those ads I [ __ ] up and I was like what do you mean [ __ ] up it's your best performing ad right now >> so the science in that the art was you thought you'd like [ __ ] it up but that was kind of artistic because it worked
out like the number said it was like the best performing ad I'm like no you should [ __ ] up more ads right so like people ask me You Aiden, you'll probably edit it in that ad that I filmed where I honestly just couldn't be [ __ ] filming ads that day. And so while I was just getting a haircut, my barber was here. I was just like I told just film me getting a haircut and it's the dates.
>> I read I think that ad is hilarious cuz it's just you're sitting there nonchalant and it's >> I don't even say anything.
>> The workshop dates come up and I'm like >> Yeah. Like I literally don't say anything at all.
>> Yeah. Um there was something else I was going to say as well. So art as well.
Art will come and go like fashion cycles. It happens with marketing as well. So for example um let's say 2017 2018 webinars were really really popular and then they got overused. When things get overused in art they get cheesy and what's the word cliche and so people adopt to something else a different style. Then what came in was lead magnet funnels right and so lead magnet funnels came in as the evolution of webinars. I
think because their more instantaneous consumption of the education >> and volume too right then what happened was people got really sick of lead magnets the consumption rates were really really poor and so it got more direct so now call funnels are very very popular now I think what's happening is we're in a post postcoid world people are super super skeptical like pretty much everyone has been burnt by like at least one thing that they purchase from a Facebook ad and they're skeptical of sales reps they're skeptical of anyone
selling anything on the internet. And so webinars and long form, which is essentially just a live piece of long form content, which again, we talked about that mere exposure effect, right?
The more you see something, the more you like it from that experiment of the 70s.
>> Just by being exposed to someone for [ __ ] like however long this video is going to go for, it increases the their trust with that person. Just like when you see your friends and family the most, right? And so webinar, so webinars are starting to come back into fashion.
Now you see that in art also. You have any questions about So that's art versus science.
>> To to your point, the reason why people come to me is they say, I've seen you for years online.
>> Y >> I don't have any doubt that what you do is legit.
>> Mhm.
>> Cuz you just been around for so long and you've been doing your thing.
>> Yeah. And when they come onto the call, they're like, "Oh, you're the same person as I see online." >> Y >> and the same person as I see um in this call.
>> Mhm.
>> And in the ads. So it's like consistency.
>> Yep.
>> And then also the new trend, I guess, is the two-day workshop. Yeah.
>> But the two-day workshop and the feedback I'm getting in my testimonials is it is so interactive. it. You learn so much and I get to ask questions in person as soon as I get stuck.
>> Yeah.
>> Courses.
>> No.
>> Yeah.
>> Because someone gets stuck in a nuance tailored way that they can't get that instant feedback from. Yeah.
>> I think instant feedback is an evergreen thing that you can >> apply to to any business. It's like if I have an instant question needs to be answered by the service based business, it needs to it needs to be nurtured immediately and you do that through this and in that balancing act.
>> Um, >> no questions. Just thought I'd add.
>> Yeah. Sweet. So on that point of you said like balancing act. So art versus science is everything can be measured with a number. There's dials not switches, right? Which we we talked about a little bit already. So each of these is a dial that we can dial up or down, right? Advertising isn't you want to avoid binary speaking in your advertising in terms of like it works or it doesn't work. Cuz let's say for example, you might get someone that's running their ads and they're going, I'm
not getting any sales, but like they've got a really decent cost per lead.
They've got a really decent, sorry, really decent cost per click from the right people. They're getting a decent cost per lead. It is possible, not like 100% of the time, it is possible that they're just really, really bad at sales. And so in that instance, we can say, "This is working quite well. This is working quite well. This is the issue." Cuz maybe they're closing like one out of 20 instead of one out of three. But then what we can do is we can look at that and go, "All right, this is fine. This is fine. This is clearly the problem child." And we just zoom in on that >> and dial it in.
>> Right? But then maybe also what we were talking about before is maybe these are like very curious leads. So the issue you had before, right? So maybe what it is is we dial this in so that there's more friction. Our cost per lead will go up a little bit. Our cost per click will go up a little bit, but it will net out better here.
>> How long do you give uh dial in the science of it when you depends like I'm going to I'm going to have a really long section at the end of this. Just as a general rule of thumb, I look at the rolling last 30 days.
>> Okay?
>> Right? Because things will fluctuate wildly like day to day, week to week, even month to month. Like if you export like if this is a graph here of like 0 days, 30 days and the number of bookings that we get, it will literally look like this. But what I'm looking for is this rolling average in the middle here.
>> The mean, >> right? Because even like month to month like it could just be [ __ ] school holidays or something like that and your cost per lead goes down or like right now my cost per leads are everyone's cost per leads up because petrol prices.
>> So that was my next question. When you have moments like that where universally ads are tanking for everybody because of a global thing or something else maybe or a change in the uh meta algorithm >> that rolling 30 days is kind of irrelevant. Uh how often do those kind of moments happen?
>> Yeah, pretty often. Like there'll be like what pretty crazy fluctuable looking at a financial quarter is very good as well.
>> Yeah.
>> Like a full 90 days.
>> Yeah. I've gone through a whole bunch of laps now, but initially when I've gone through them as a beginner Yeah. in the first week I'm like >> it's crazy. Yeah. Because you're going through this.
>> Yeah. where it's like your first 24 hours there's no leads and then there's all these leads day two and then there's a couple leads on day three. Like what's going on? But you got to remember to look at the averages, >> right?
>> Yeah. Look at the averages.
>> Make sure your ads are still on.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Like the first was like my ads didn't work. Like that's the only instance where your ads did not work.
It's like they weren't on.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. So the third principle I call it meet them where they're at. The general rule of thumb here is you want to be able to repeat back to or address the internal monologue of your pro prospect depending where they are in the process. Do >> you do that across this whole process?
>> Across this whole process, right? So let's say for example, they are just scrolling Instagram and then your face pops up. Well, what's going through their head? They're not really thinking about their offer. They're just rationally self-interested as we would all learn in year 10 economics. So they're just thinking about their own problems. So, if you have the ability to repeat back to them their problems, their desires, things that keep them up at night, >> which you should do cuz audience Yeah.
Cuz you know the customer like they've said this to you a thousand [ __ ] times. They'll stop pay attention because they're rationally self-interested and pay attention to you. But on the flip side of that, a poorer example would be if you just started talking about yourself. That's not where they're at. That's that's all the way over here, right? So that's why I always tell people in the ads like don't introduce yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> Because the average view duration on social media is 1.8 seconds. Fun fact >> used to be you Facebook used to let you optimize for 3 second video. People's attention spans got so short they changed it to two >> 1.8 far out. So So you're talking about the top of the funnel. Top of the funnel is more about them.
>> Yep.
>> Bottom of the funnel is more about you because they're asking for >> because that's where they're at, right?
So where they're at right here is their their own world and their own problems and they're just rationally self-interested.
>> And then here when you are talking about yourself, you're specifically talking about how you are going to solve.
>> We can even get more micro. So after they click, where are they right now?
They're curious. So they're still rationally self-interested, but let's say they get to the landing page. What where they're at is, you know, they got 1.8 seconds of attention span here on average. They don't magically regain all their [ __ ] intellect when they go on the landing page. Like if you install Microsoft Clarity, which is like a free tool where you can like watch people's sessions and stuff like that, blows out sensitive information. You'll just see them furiously scrolling around because they'll just read the headline. They'll look at the VSSL, go not listening to that essay, they'll see the form, they
go, "All right, that's that's what they want me to do." But then they'll just furiously scroll through the landing page to talk themselves into or out of at least putting their contact details in. Well, that's where they're at.
They're just slightly more curious, right? And so where we need to meet them on the landing page is we need to tell them at a macro level what you do, what we want them to do, and then we had to prove it because they're skeptical >> and that's where the testimonials come in.
>> Yeah. But we need to prove it quickly, >> right? Cuz they have all these open loops in their heads. So there's a number of different things that you can put on the landing page, what order you put them in, how many FAQs you have, what FAQs you put there, how your testimonials are laid out. Can you find images to replace blocks of text? Like for example, I'm going to talk about psychological resistance in a bit when we talk about landing pages. Um, I improved the conversion rate of my landing page almost double because I just took blocks of text and just tried to replace them with images that got the
same point across because the brain can just quickly scan it and go, "Oh, that makes sense." And then go to the form and complete it, right? Same with FAQs.
So, I'm having quite a lot of success just moving FAQs further higher up on the landing page because people can quickly see their thought and I'll get to like constructing your debate in a bit and like, oh, I'm wondering that one, they'll click it, maybe another one and then scroll back up and complete the form, right?
>> And then even in the nurture sequence, right? So, where are they at in the nurture sequence? So, where they're at in the nurture sequence when they booked the call is I'm curious enough to want this. I'm committed enough to book a call, but they're probably trying to talk themselves out of it. And so what we need to do is think what's everything that's going through someone's head when they book a call with us. Could you give me some examples?
>> Uh they are yeah they're desperate or their pain point is they've getting word of mouth but it's plateauing.
>> Mhm.
>> And they need to take on something else like ads or organic.
>> But now what they're trying to do is they're they're a little bit more skeptical of you. So this is where we can talk about us more.
>> Right? We've already spoken about them.
and we'll continue to speak about them.
>> The other thing as well is are they do they want to see me are they expecting me in the sales call or a sales rep?
>> Generally doesn't matter. That was one thing that I was hesitant about as well.
A lot of people ask me that. Um as long as you again you set the expectation that like it will be with a team member perfectly fine like I I'm we have 10 nine or 10.
>> So inoculate them.
>> What's inoculate mean?
>> Inoculate means setting expectations.
You tell them before that. It's like I'm about to I'm about to tell you something you're not going to like.
>> Yeah, >> that's it.
>> That's that's all you're doing is like you're just setting expectations throughout this opportunity. But we want to think, right, what are they thinking here? Now, a perfect example of this actually is if you talk to the sales team or you take the sales calls when you're getting objections, they didn't just think of that objection when they when they got to the end of the call.
>> They already had that in mind before that.
>> They thought about it [ __ ] all the way through.
>> And you should put that somewhere earlier.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You put it in the nurture sequence. So, like when someone books a call with us, like I know the thing that's top of mind is Brandon, all these testimonials are great, but how bad can you really [ __ ] me on this deal? So, I the first video I send them is I do a loom where I go for our internal NPS surveys and I show them like, hey, here's all our worst reviews and what they had to say.
>> NPS for the audience, >> uh, net promoter score, right? So, at the end of our 2-day workshop, this is [ __ ] long ass survey you got to fill.
It like asks how easy or difficult you find certain sections, feedback, and then on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely are you to recommend us to a friend or a colleague? And I go through like the fours, the fives, and the sixes, and the sevens and go, cool, this person gave me a four. Like, what did they have to say?
And it's not like Brandon is a [ __ ] scam artist. It was like, I'm just like not that good with computers, right?
Because humans are interesting. When there's a lack of information, they'll just make up a story in their head and agree with it because it's the lowest psychological resistance thing. You got to remember all people are trying to do throughout this entire process is just conserve calories. That's all they're trying to do their entire [ __ ] life is just be efficient with their calories so they they don't drop dead, right? And
think so like all right, they're skeptical of us like like how can we address that? I like well I send them like loads of podcasts like PR that we've been in and then we spend like we send like three or four emails the first day they book. A lot of people would think that's a lot. I learned from Jeremy Haynes like he calls it his hammer them strategy but the open rates and the clickthrough rates are like through the [ __ ] roof.
>> What about when they get through into that, you know, hammer them with podcasts and testimonials and stuff and they say I'm bombarded with text messages and emails all of a sudden.
>> Well, exactly right. So it's dials, not switches. We get complaints. it just nets out better, right? The other thing as well is we have you have a blanket rule. If someone complains about the emails, the text messages, we delete their booking because previous behavior is incredibly predictive of future behavior. And so, if they're just a [ __ ] during the sales process, they're going to be a [ __ ] during the program. So, we just don't let them in.
>> Right? Because the other thing as well is most people actually [ __ ] appreciate the information because they booked the call because they want information, but they might not get it that information for 3 days when the booking is. And so you save them a bunch of time, physical and psychological resistance, which we'll get to when you just [ __ ] send them everything that they want up front. Like I could keep going on like past this cuz I'll link marketing and sales to product, right?
Cuz I see I see like marketing, sales and product as like one interlin engine, right? Because when marketing does well, sales does well. When sales does well, more people use your product. When more people use your product, more people get results. More people have testimonials.
Those testimonials go into your marketing, improves your your conversion rates, improves your close rates.
>> It snowballs.
>> It snowballs, right? And so like all we're doing is just like collecting testimonials and just chucking them in, >> right? And so I want to be able to predict someone's behavior in the marketing and sales in the offer because if the offer does well, the marketing does better, the sales does better. So I added this one question. I'm probably going to talk about it again later when we get to landing pages and surveys that I I had a theory that I could predict someone's behavior based on their response to one question. And I was [ __ ] dead right. So the question was
it was multi- choice. It was something like, "Which best describes your approach to learning and implementing new things for the business?" Options A and B were variations of, "I like having a plan, but I know I need to make adjustments along the way." Options C and D were variations of, "I'm going to get [ __ ] annoyed if this doesn't work immediately." And internally in our CRM system, it would just put a little red flag. It still does. It puts a little red flag emoji next to that lead's name.
>> And then we measured it for a full financial quarter. If someone was a red flag, they had half the show rate and half the close rate of people that were not red flags. And then whenever someone complained in the program, we looked them up in the CRM system. 100% of the time there was a red flag. 100% of the time. Like it's incredibly predictive.
>> So how did you adjust to that then?
>> We just don't let them [ __ ] book, >> right? They had to beg to get in. So if if if I was to add red flags throughout that survey before they book, it would be their their started their their pre-revenue. Well, it could be that one.
So this is this this red flag test specifically is to indicate like how well they'll do in the program, not necessarily what they buy or not.
They're slightly different. So industry set has this one as well. So industry sets my other company with Jackson for the content. you know about this, but so it's for electronic music producers to make better music faster, get signed to labels, play music festivals, all that [ __ ] Um, their red flag test, you had to talk to the sales team, right? So, you talk to the sales team, the product team, and you, what you're trying to do is work out the mindsets of people that do not do well in the program or that are just [ __ ] pains
in the ass. And so theirs is, yeah, we hate when people are like, "Yeah, I already make good music. like just sign me to [ __ ] Tomorrowland or whatever, right? And so our red flag test for industry set is which best describes where you're at in your music career right now. Options A and B are like I'm always learning. I'm always developing and I know I can be better. Something like that. Options C and D, the red flags, like I already make good music. I just need to get signed to a label. Give me an artist manager. Right? That's their red flag test. So it depends on specific businesses. And then for me
personally, the biggest objection that I'm trying to figure out how to balance is uh are they the main decision maker?
>> That's their business.
>> That's that's a qualifying question.
>> That's a qualifying question. But they're but they're also a lot of the time they would go keen. Yes. Awesome. I just need to ask my spouse.
>> And a lot of the time they don't come back. They're ghost.
>> Yep. Well, then we got a silence problem there, right? So then you can address that there. You can also address that here. So we also put like our nurture sequences like hey just to um this is another point as well. You always want to make think position things messaging wise as a benefit to them, right? So a bad example would be like, hey, to save me time following you up, I'm obviously exaggerating. To save me time following you up, make sure if there's any other decision makers that you bring them to this call, otherwise
we'll just reschedule. Selfish to you, right? So what you can do is you can reward it and say, "Hey, just so you don't have to play messenger owl um like speaking to anyone else. If you need to reschedule so that um let me know if you want to reschedule." so that anyone anyone else can involved and you don't >> when do you say that?
>> I put one of the merchant sequences put in the booking doesn't particularly matter too much. Usually like the first text message.
>> Yeah. Like to that point when I was uh building my wedding photography business it would always be the um the girl the bride >> who would find me and and book a call with me.
>> Yeah. And it would always be I need to ask my fiance >> who would be on FIFO or something out on swing. And I fixed that by going hey uh just uh to to before you book a call I need both of you in the call to see if we are all the right fit and and synergy is. And then when we do the call I speak emotionally to the bride. She's sold.
>> The guy's just there folding his arms going one question. How much does it cost? But before I give him the question, the answer, I say to him, you can delegate all of her questions to me because you're not gonna know the answer. I do. And he just goes, >> "Yeah, yeah, yeah." >> So that's a good example of like meet them where they're at.
>> Now, the fourth one is set expectations.
I won't spend too much time on this one because we've already spoke about it quite a lot, but setting expectations is like all of your life, all you're trying to do is just I think I said it in Paul's podcast. Do you remember I said like I've done all right because I've always managed people's expectations of me pretty well and set expectations pretty poorly. So whenever I've done like well people pleasantly surprised.
And so all you're trying to do in life people are only disappointed when their expectations don't meet reality. And so one of the key skills you can develop in life is just managing people's expectations. And so the same thing happens in marketing. The ad needs to set an expectation that the landing page must meet. Right? the how well you set those expectations, showing it to the right person, having the right copy, the right content, the language that you use, that will be reflected by higher
conversion rates, right? Same thing with like your nurture sequences. We talked about it already. Like if you set the expectation this is a free consultation, you're going to get a bunch of people that want free consultations and don't buy anything >> and they definitely don't have any money.
>> Exactly. Right. So that would be reflected by like a really poor close, right? Yeah, >> but if you frame it as an application call, pretty clear this is transactional, right?
>> And so that's setting expectations. Hey, real quick, if you're enjoying this and you want the help of myself and the rest of my team so you can build this out and optimize it along with you, there's some links for with you express as well as being able to save a spot for a workshop. If you can't come to one of the upcoming cities or one of the upcoming dates, we're just not running workshops where you are or you can conveniently get to we have a version called with you express. It's all the same support that our full workshop members receive, the 50 plus calls a week, being able to respond in school, the AI version of Brandon, but rather
than the in-person workshop, you'll go through an accelerated online version, which you go through with the AI version of myself, so that as you're going through the workshop content, because I'm not in the room with you to give you feedback on your headlines, there's an AI version of me you can chat to to get feedback on your ads and your landing pages, on your headlines, and things like that. So if you want to learn more about that there's some links in the description. The fifth principle is winning hearts and minds. Now depending which book you read the brain has like two systems of thinking. Like there's the book very popular book thinking fast
thinking slow. I've learned red brain green brain by like Peter Lakovich the entourage uses it as well. If I ask Cameron Norworthy he's my sports psychologist he refers to it as thinking brain being brain. But it's basically you've got logical thinking which is significantly slower. Cameron could get into the like neuroscience and the biology of that part of the brain just developed later in human evolution. And so there's kind of like a lag. And then you've got emotional thinking which is significantly faster. The reason it's
faster is it developed first. Cameron's going to kill me cuz I can't [ __ ] remember what part of the brain it's called. But like you can probably recall a time where you're having like an argument with a spouse or a mate or something like that. Emotions are running high. And because emotions running high, you say something so quickly that as soon as the words leave your mouth, feel like I'm sleeping on the [ __ ] couch tonight, right? And so there's this saying, I can't remember who told it to me, but humans buy emotionally and justify logically. I add this third part, which is humans buy emotionally, they justify logically, but their logic's already a little bit
screwed up if their emotions got to them first. But we need to find this balance between two, right? So, the example I give in the workshop, I think Aiden clipped it up on Instagram the other day, was on an advisory call with this uh Wiki member and I was looking at the headline for his landing page and he went all in on the emotion. And so, his headline was something like uh stress lessons, sleep well at night. And I was like, oh, that's pretty good. That's a good feeling. I was like, wait, what do you do? He was and he's like, I'm a tax
accountant. And I was like, oh, I thought you were like a [ __ ] mattress, right? because the outcome was unclear, right? So, we need to find this balance between yeah that like that's a result or that's an outcome that I want but also like how is that going to make me feel? So, the way that I get people to like kind of map this out [ __ ] me is like number one like what's the thing?
So, the earliest evolutions of advertising and marketing just simply told as many people as they could this is the thing and this is how much it costs. The second evolution of advertising was like the result right so car advertising in the I think 20s and 30 or 30s and 40s I can't remember the decade was very utilitarian so this car can travel this far on a single gallon of gas right then what happened as we all know now advertising you're selling
a feeling so like it's the result of the result >> yeah so if I experience this outcome what feelings will I evoke Right. And so those feelings like [ __ ] now three there like what's that feeling? It's like I feel like I'm in a [ __ ] jet fighter when I fly through this tunnel through the Perf underpass, whatever the [ __ ] it is, right? So what is that feeling? You sell that feeling, right? Um, cologne and perfume ads are
actually a [ __ ] perfect example of this because when you royally boil it down, it's a pretty glass bottle with some random oils mixed together, but they can only really talk about the feeling because they can't get the result through the television. Like, you can't get the smell through it.
>> Can't get the smell.
>> So, like what are all like perfume and cologne ads? It's three and a half minutes long, sometimes five, and all it is is a bunch of hot models partying in Europe, and you want to be there.
>> Like that's that's all that feeling is.
And then the [ __ ] cologne bottles, like the last 3 seconds, >> the links the lynx ads as well with the the deodorant.
>> Yeah, I want to um revisit the um those five gum ads.
>> Oh yeah, >> they're fant. They're still around, man.
They fumbled the [ __ ] >> B. Now with your with that number five before we move on, >> the feeling part.
>> Yeah. Where is the best place to put the feeling part?
>> All throughout here.
>> All throughout.
>> Yeah.
>> Cool.
>> So, you want >> you just got to manage the expectation consistently of the feelings throughout the whole thing.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Like this is one thing that I was I was always very good at evoking emotions. However, feedback I got was like like it wasn't very clear what I did. However, it worked cuz I like evoked emotions. I'm just good at pissing people off on the internet. And so as I started doing ads that lent more into the logical, it unlocked this like different audience because you got to remember again this is linking to dials not switches. People respond differently to different pieces of art. So if something's just a super hyper
emotionally triggering ad like an old ad I would have run, it will respond to one audience. But like let's say for example like accountants and engineers is engineering personality types just won't resonate with that. And so when you just straight tell them like this is what it is, that will unlock a portion of the audience which is more analytical than they are emotional because it's not one or the other. It's a mix of both. But then again, it's not 50/50. Some people it's 604. See what I mean? Cuz all these principles interlink. So it's all dials on switches. Not just one or the other.
So the next principle is constructing your argument. So, I have a philosophy tutor, Malik, that comes in every Fortnite and teaches me philosophy. And mainly at the moment, like critical thinking, but he's also a debating coach. And it made me think when you really boil it down, all marketing and advertising is is just debating at scale. Because this is you, the happy advertiser, and then this is an army of opposition of people that you're
targeting that are unhappy with their lives. And just think about like in high school when you did you ever do debating in high school.
>> Yeah. So like you have like usually you have teammates and stuff, right? You go three on three, but like in this instance it's one versus your entire [ __ ] audience size, right? You are trying to reach get them to reach a logical conclusion which is like a number of things. It's like buy my thing from this person specifically, right?
this audience that you're targeting, they already have a list of their own preconceived notions, ideas, beliefs, agreements, preconceived notions of how you do what you do, and they have an argument against you. Generally speaking, like the hottest audience, people going to disagree with you from the get- go. And so, what we need to do is we need to build a strong argument to do or not do your thing. and we need to
rebut and address their arguments, right? A really weak argument is just supported by one premise. A really strong argument is supported by multiple premises. You can also think of premises, reasons. So really weak advertising campaigns just focus on here's one reason to buy our thing, right? It's just one ad, the landing page is just about that reason. There's like no sequences that don't talk about that. And then the agency would say,
"Oh, you just need to put more money into that one creative." That's [ __ ] anyway.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. But they didn't they didn't create multiple different reasons >> to test.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And then this audience here, which is your opposition, which is also just the market. They have all these [ __ ] different beliefs that you need to address one by one, right? And so one of the but by the way they'll actually agree with some of yours already, right? So let's let's use me as an example. They agree that they need more consistent leads.
They agree that they need more quality leads. They agree that agencies aren't working for them. However, what they might disagree with is I'm not techsavvy.
>> You swear too much.
>> Yeah, I you swear too much. You wear Crocs in your ads. You seem unprofessional and I'm skeptical. Um, I think these testimonials are fake. I don't have time for this. Right? And so what we need to do is we need to create content that communicates and attacks each of these. Right? And where we attack them can be in multiple different places, right? It can be if I was to flip the board back over, it could be in the ad. So addressing like none of the people in this room thought they were
techsavvy, right? Or like for example when I won that award or which one? But like when I won that award, >> you're not professional and you no one thinks.
>> Exactly. Like a lot of people booked calls and told the sales team, I thought Brandon was [ __ ] until I saw that.
>> Right. And so then we cool. We attacked that one.
>> So you create you create artifacts to leverage against those um opposing things >> because all it takes is one.
>> All it takes is there to be. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that. But I don't think I have time for this. And the only person that can best do that in the business is the business owner.
>> Yeah. The other thing as well is I actually just wiped it off because I had my philosophy tutoring stuff up here is humans I think I think this is the word Malik taught me. It's called naive realism which is people generally speaking have to go through life believing that they are correct and they are right in their assumptions about how the world works. It's very uncommon not never dials not switches. It's very uncommon for people to just question all of their internal beliefs, right? So,
the people that are in the comments of my ad saying, "I'm a scam artist." In their in their world, in their version of reality, they're correct. In my version of reality, they're [ __ ] [ __ ] But we just need to [ __ ] meet somewhere in the middle.
Right? So, we need what you need to do is just constantly think, "All right, if I was my prospect, what are all the reasons why they wouldn't do something?" And then you make ads about it. You address it in your like landing pages.
You address it in the nurture sequences.
And then you preempt it in the sales call.
>> And you've got 1.8 seconds to identify.
>> Yep. Yep.
>> Because again, I'm I think I'm going to get to psychological resistance in a bit. They're just they're lazy about this, right? They're they're they're going through the world believing that they're correct in their assumptions of how the world works and they will not go to very much effort to prove themselves wrong. But if you call them out in that first 1.8 seconds, they'll be curious enough to want to watch.
>> They'll be more likely >> more likely to watch. Not not 100% >> not switches.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> And when that happens, where do you find more success in the in the things that people are already saying good about you or when you use the things that people are not sure or saying bad about you?
I'm seeing a lot of success here.
>> So, actually dial in more into the negative stuff.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> Because that will then educate the people and make them understand >> when you're reading their you reading their mind.
>> Exactly. Because the other thing as well is when again when there's a lack of information, humans will just make up a story in their head and agree with it and not go to very much effort to prove themselves otherwise. And so what we needed to do is like when you just don't address something, they'll just make up the worst possible story. And then also humans have a negative cognitive bias.
So they generally speaking will just lean on the negative. That's why the comments section of ads is generally the most negative and people won't go to much effort to like leave positive comments. Generally speaking, they just like it. Let's move on. The next principle is only selling the next step.
I don't need to spend too much time here cuz I've already spoken about this. It also kind of pretty closely links to like setting expectations. But the ad is just trying to get the right person to click. The opt-in page is just trying to get the right person to opt in. The booking page is just trying to get them to book in a call. The show rate is just trying to get them to shop. Now the sales call is trying to get them to buy.
Like we're only ever trying to sell the next day.
>> And your ultimate goal is pretty much the call is just a onboarding call.
>> That's the ultimate goal.
>> Yeah. So the other thing as well is you want to think of these as like micro commitments. So if you ever been to You probably have, I've been to a few. You ever been to like a sales seminar? But I did someone's sales seminar. What they'll try and do, and I do this in my webinars, is you try and get them to do little micro compliances along the way, right? So they'll get you to raise your hand, they'll get you to stand up, they'll get you to clap, they get you to talk to the person next to you, like all these little micro compliances and they all kind of stack up, right? Because I'll give an extreme example. If your ad
was just buy my thing, you'll have a very poor, not never, but very poor success rate, right? But if it's just click this ad and then which best describes you like another qualifying question by the time they get to like the eighth questions asking for contact details they've already done all these little micro commitments that increases the likelihood they do that last step but if you go click an ad give me a phone number that's a higher level of resistance again not never but we can
increase the net outcome by just doing little small micro commitments right and just get like getting people to stack those yeses. Essentially, that's all we're doing with this advertising. We're just trying to get them to agree to click, agree to answer the first question, agree to answer the second question through to the last question, agree to book a call, agree to show up to call, agree to buy. All we're just trying to do is just micro commitments.
And then even still, like in the nurture sequence, I'll get to like principles to increase show rates. Like we'll get them to like reply a couple times, right? And so the likelihood, this is kind of like jumping ahead, but like one of the key things you can do at advertising is get them to identify themselves as a customer because identity is one of the like strongest influences of behavior.
There's a chapter in uh I think it's I think the author is Robert Calaldini uh influence and there's a chapter where they ran an experiment. They had this like big ugly sign and it was basically to support safe driving or not distracted driving. I can't remember exactly. Doesn't particularly matter.
And the first one they just like went up to random houses that they hadn't approached before and said, "Hey, can you put this big ugly sign on your front lawn?" Almost no one agreed to it. Then what they did was they ran a second experiment. They got someone to visit the house a week ahead of time and just ask like, "Hey, we're just doing a petition. Do you support safe driving?" And like pretty much everyone was like understand like, "Yeah, I do." And just signed the petition. Then someone came a
week later and said, "Hey, can you um put this big ugly sign up saying you support safe driving?" And because they had identified themselves as someone that supports safe driving, now like 84% of them or something like that put this [ __ ] ugly sign when previously it was [ __ ] flat zero, right? And so whenever you have like ways in your nurture sequences or in your application forms to get them to identify as someone that behaves in the way that you want them to do, you increase your likelihood of success. We also do this in the the
product side. So the stuff we do in our onboarding process, we we try and get them to identify themselves as someone that does well in the program to increase the likelihood of their success because they'll exhibit the behaviors of someone that will do well that will give a case study that will go back into the marketing back and start because goes the flywheel spins. All right. So the eighth principle is curious versus committed. So this is a little spectrum that I came up with trying to troubleshoot someone's ad copy. So this applies to your ad copy, what you say, like what you write in the ads. This
applies to the content. So whether that be the image or whether that be the video. This can also apply to your search terms in Google as well. It applies to the marketing strategy in whole. It applies to like what you call the booking. Like everything all of your communication for marketing exists on this spectrum of curious versus committed. And it will have a I probably should have written it on the other side, but remember how I was saying
sometimes if you have a really good click-through rate, sometimes the commitment rate like the close rate will be really really poor. It's the same thing, right? So let's say for example, well, let's use marketing strategy as an example. So you know what a lead magnet funnel is, right? So, for those that don't know, a lead magnet funnel is you see an ad, you click it, and it's advertising, hey, if you give me your name, your email, and your phone number, I'll give you a free training video on how to get dream outcome. Right? That's
scenario A. Scenario B would be here's an ad for the W with you program. This landing page is all about the program.
There's nothing for free. Uh, start your application and book an application call. That's scenario B. If this is a zero and this is a 10, on a scale of curious to committed, where would you place the first example, the lead magnet?
>> I would have it higher cuz they get something >> as in like would the leads be curious or committed >> or in terms of going all the way through the workshop?
>> Yeah, >> probably somewhere in the middle.
>> Yeah.
>> So, usually people place it around there, right?
>> And scenario B is the ad is just selling the with you program. The landing page is just selling the with you program.
You're booking an application call.
There's no free information like training information. Where would you place that on a scale of 0 to 10?
>> And they're and they're already booking the call.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, well then they're more committed.
>> Yeah. B, right? Or B would be closer towards 10 because all the communication is implying a level of commitment. And the way that's reflected is sure some conversion rates would go down like if we have clicks conversions close like sometimes these go down a little bit. Um but actually what will happen is I'll give you another example. Let's say I had a client come to my advisory call
and he said Brandon I'm getting loads of clicks but my conversion rate is really really poor on his landing page. All I asked him was, "What's the first sentence of your ad?" And his sentence was, "This is how guys are losing stubborn belly fat." Now, if you just read that sentence, what are all the things that you think that could be?
>> Fat loss program.
>> Yeah. Fat loss program. What else?
>> Fitness.
>> Fitness, ompic, fat diet, juice cleanse, [ __ ] peptides. There's all these different things that it could be, right? But only like a small section of them are expecting it. Now this also links to the set expectations. Curious and committed links highly to the principle of set expectations. So what I told him to do was change his sentence from original sentence was this is how guys are losing stubborn belly fat which a lot of people would click cuz they're
curious to find out what what what do these things are. All I got to do was change it to this is how the guys I coach are losing stubborn belly fat. it slides it further up this committed scale simply by putting the word guys I coach. So now what's happening is we've narrowed down the realm of possibilities to all right well this is obviously [ __ ] coaching. What happened was his link clickthrough rate went down
a little bit.
His landing page conversion where we're asking for commitment it went up a lot.
It like quadrupled. Right? So what happened was he netted out a lower cost per lead.
>> So that's why the quick clickfunnel stuff is kind of in the yes year because you want less people who just freeloaders expecting all the good information to be here >> and when it's not there >> they don't go continue forward >> again and it's balancing it >> but now they go oh the guys that he coaches >> that means it's already working I want to be one of those people. Well, what's happening is they're clicking it, they're going to a landing page, they're seeing an application for for coaching,
and it's meeting their expectations.
It's meeting them at their level of commitment where they're at right now.
Whereas previously, what was happening is we were sending a lot of people like this to a landing page asking for commitment like this. All right, just to like finish that example as well, what we also did, the next problem he had was guys were getting on the call, so he was happy, but he's like, "Oh, they're all broke." And so all we did was we changed his sentence one more time. And it was this is how the guys I coach are losing stubborn belly fat despite having busy 9
to5s, right? And so again, this links to that set print that set uh expectations.
>> It narrows down the niche, >> narrows it down even more. So now people that don't have 9 to5s read that go obviously not for me. Some of them are [ __ ] [ __ ] and will still click it and go through it.
>> But the 9 to5s have uh a wage which means that they can pay for it.
>> Yep. You're right.
>> It's not for you.
>> Exactly. So that's curious versus committed. Another way that this can show up as well is I I talked about it before on on the first kind of slide. Asking for contact details. Would you place it closer to curious or committed?
>> Uh well, if they're given their sensitive information out, more closer to committed.
>> Yeah. Right. So, contact details is further up here.
>> Whereas what we want to do is remember that micro commitment, it's only selling the next step. So, all we're doing throughout like if we really zoom in like when you have your landing page and that application form, all we're doing is trying to slide them from here up slide by slide.
Right? Because where they're at right now, again, meet them where they're at is I'm curious. I'm like, or at least I'm further down this end of the spectrum again. Right? I'm not at giving you, generally speaking, most of them are not at giving you their contact details. But if you go, which best describes you, what industry are you in, what's your website, first name, last name, and then they start and then they start becoming pot committed where they go, well, I've given them all that
information already. he understands me.
>> I need that next step now. It's like a drug, right?
>> It opens up a loop in their head, too.
Humans um really don't like open loops.
There's a I think it's romance novels or at least like drama novels where the authors will do such a good job at opening a loop in their head by like they'll end the book by just finishing halfway through a sentence and not finishing the sentence. And so you have to buy the next book to close the loop.
And there's certain books that say like on the front cover that they don't do that.
>> It's like a trailer in a movie. You see all these good bits. You're like, "Oh my god, I want to see the context of that entire thing. I have to go see the movie." And even the micro example is for content, inorganic content, especially when podcast clips, you grab like a half second moment, put it at the start, and then play it through. And people need to watch the whole thing.
>> Yeah. Exactly. I had a video go viral last week for 2 million views because the first guy interviewed said prostitutes and people wanted to see >> the context >> to close the loop to close the loop.
>> Close the loop. You can actually just total side changing. You can actually use this in human performance as well.
So whenever like like for example when I do my thinking days what I'll do is I'll do like 30 minutes at a time in different park. When I feel like I'm about to finish a thought, I'll just leave and go somewhere else and then pick up from where I left off. If you're like trying to write a book or something like that, it's really good to end halfway through a sentence because your brain will like sit with like finishing that sentence and then you'll just get into flow really quickly. The ninth principle, this is my favorite one, is physical and psychological resistance.
So this applies to I generally speaking I generally speak about this in the context of landing pages.
So usually what happens is you have this ongoing balance between quantity leads and quality leads, right? So if you've got quantity leads and quality, often what happens is like you get heaps of leads for really cheap but the quality is really poor. Or you go the other way and like you have really great leads that is very few and far in between. So what we need to do is this kind of
balancing act between the two. All right? And again it's dials not switches. And so we need to dial in physical and psychological resistance.
So the first one is physical resistance.
Now this is clicks, keystrokes, and scrolls. Simply put, this is just stuff you physically have to do, right?
Really easy example of clicks is if you have a landing page and you have a button that says apply now. You click that button, it opens another page and then your form's there. Probably cut your your conversion rate in half. And so all you have to do is take that form and embed it there and get rid of that click.
>> Yeah. Less steps the better.
>> Yep.
>> Less clicks.
>> Less clicks the better.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> So that's an example of clicks. You can even go really really micro with this.
So let's say for example on your landing page you've got the video here. Best practice would be have it autoplay with captions burnt in because if the video is just sitting there well now I have to click play to consume that information.
Whereas if the video just starts playing and I and it will autoplay with without sound. If it just auto plays then I can at least read along with the captions and consume that information without having to click keystrokes. All right.
So, when you went to or you used to be a teacher um or at least when you were in high school anyway and you have an exam, it's like 3 hours long. You got three sections, right? You got multi-choice, short answer, essay. Which section you go to first?
>> Multi- choice.
>> Yeah, cuz the answer is somewhere on the [ __ ] page. Click CC CC and just [ __ ] best, right? So, what we want to do is we can lower physical resistance by just giving them multi- choice questions, right? So rather than saying what industry are you in and having an open text field where they got to type out something, we just change that to multi- choice.
>> And over time, if you know your customer, you know the most likely four answers anyway.
>> Exactly. Cuz that everyone just folds into like categories, right? We can get like category philosophy, but we probably don't have time. Then we've got scrolls as well, right? So scrolls is simply how far down the page do I need to scroll? So if this is the landing page, we have a thing called the fold.
Now most people know what this is, but the fold is like when you open the page, what's the first thing that loads and the first the first section that loads is what's referred to as above the fold.
If anyone's wondering about the origin, I know you're not, it comes from like newspapers. So that when they put fold newspapers and like hang them over like newspaper racks, the sections above the fold had to like grab people's attention. So they put the big headline there, right? So that's the fold. When you click the ad, 100% of people will see what's above the fold. The further down the page you go, this is where the dials not switching things come in and like gradients. Like there might only be like 5% of people that reach the bottom
of the page. And so if you have your form all the way down here, you just make it drastically more difficult for people to find this thing. All we need to do is take that form and move it either into the fold or just slightly below it. Right? So scrolls is another really really important one.
>> Now for this one here, a lot of the sales calls that I've had when I asked them, "Hey, did you see the uh the outcomes that you would get from the workshop, which would be here somewhere?
Did you have a look at the testimonials?" And go, "Oh, I didn't realize they were there." >> But they still booked a call. However, it was counterintuitive for them not to see that because they were asking questions that were there in the first place. How can I fix that?
>> So now you're getting into the ordering of things, right? So what we want to do is we need to we can't fight this. We just have to accept this. So what we have to do is optimize the placement of content. So for example, this is obviously bad example. FAQs placed at the top is kind of [ __ ] because they don't know the big idea of what you do.
You started at the micro, right? But when you have a big headline like a feeling and a result, that's the big idea, right? Because everyone's going to like look at this first, consume that information, and then furiously scroll around. The further down the page someone scrolls, it implies that they are not convinced and reached the same conclusion that other people might have and so they're going more and more into the details. So you start big idea at
the top, micro details at the bottom.
>> Yeah. And the most important things at the start of the VSSL >> cuz the VSSL's tentatively at the top.
>> Yeah. Right. So now we're getting into psychological resistance. So, the first one is simply thought. The easiest way to think about thought is how many [ __ ] calories does my squishy brain need to burn to reach the conclusion that you want to or I want to reach, right? So, talking myself into or out of that thing. So, really simple one. Let's talk about VSSL cuz we can talk about retention. When people go to my landing
page and they see a 17minute long VSSL, they don't go, "Wow, I'm looking forward to [ __ ] listening to this." What they do is they'll watch like probably not [ __ ] watch it at all. They might just watch the auto thumbnail, but they'll watch like just enough of the VSSL to talk themselves into or out of completing the form.
>> Is there a psychological structure to the VSSL that optimizes this? Same thing macro to micro >> but just in the video.
>> Yep. Cool. In the in the video. Right.
So, you don't want to talk about little tiny objections that people give up here. You want to talk about the big idea because >> and more so talk about themselves in the VSSL.
>> Yeah. Exactly. They want to be able to see themselves in it and meet them where they're at. My other principle, right?
Because the viewer retention graph is going to look something like this. And like the 50% mark is going to be like 30 seconds tops, >> right? And so it's going to trail off like this. And the people that are watching over here, they weren't convinced by stuff they saw earlier.
They're like, "You haven't talked about this yet. You haven't talked about this yet." And then once they get that part, they go, "Oh, wait." And then they'll [ __ ] off, right? They don't go, let's say, for example, they're convinced by 30 seconds. They don't go, "Wow, this sounds great. What does the next 16 12 minutes have to say for my [ __ ] life?" So essentially, if I was to hyper obsess about the edit of that 17 minutes, all of the fancy graphics and stuff >> right here, >> first 30 seconds and then the rest can be just captions.
>> I I'll tell you a perfect example. So Aiden, so when we filmed the very first VSSL for with you, he like it was back in the old Adelaide terrace office. I still remember to this [ __ ] day. I was in such a flow state. I like walked out of a meeting. I had already had all the cameras set up. I just sat down, ripped an 18minute VSSL, no arms, no RS, no cuts, and I was like, "All right, cool." And then just walked out. And then Aiden sent me the rough cut uh later that afternoon. I had the funnel ready. So rough cut, you know what that means, but rough cut means Aiden just
sent me the A-roll. I think some of the B-roll edited in. There was no captions.
There was no editing. There was no overlays. So, 30 seconds or like 25 seconds into the video, I was saying and flashing up on the screen is Tano's testimonial. Tano's testimonial wasn't [ __ ] there. Aiden hadn't put it in yet, but I was like, "All right, well, not like not everyone's going to get to the 25 second mark. I'll just run it anyway and see if it get gets leads." Cuz again, everything will work to a degree. It's to what degree? DS, not switches, art versus science, right? And
so then it got leads and I told Aiden I'm like, "Hey, don't want to rush you, but like I'm running traffic to this thing now and it's not finished." So all Aiden did was I think you just edited a couple minutes at a time and then sent it back to me, didn't you? So you did like 5 minutes, sent it to me. I uploaded it. All right, cool. If anyone comes at the 5 minute mark and then the next 5 minutes and the next 5 minutes, that is an example of like do what I say, not as I do because that is not best practice.
>> But again, >> that's autism.
>> Yeah. That's just me going I don't [ __ ] care. Like someone's going to comment, "Oh, the video's not I don't [ __ ] care about your [ __ ] comment, bro." >> As you're going through this, you're probably realizing, "Oh, these principles are really, really useful." But as you start building it out, you'll have questions specific to you. And that's why we have so much support for our members. We sit down with you for two days, sure to build out your campaigns, but as you start spending money on ads, you need to know, hey, like, how should I tweak this to to my industry? Like, what metrics should I expect? And that's why we hold people's hand for 6 months after the workshops,
you get tailored support. you know, there's like 50 [ __ ] calls a week you can go to just so that for your business specifically, sure, this YouTube valuable uh this YouTube video is absolutely valuable and you'll get value out of it, but you don't actually get any results until you turn your ads on.
And then on once your ads are on, you're also spending money. And so we need to make sure that we optimize that and make that as effective and efficient as possible. So if you'd like to save your seat for a workshop and get me and the team to hold your hand through the process, there'll be some links in the description. Right. So thought. Now, another example of thought, I ran a split test recently and I like doubled the conversion of the landing page.
Images are significantly easier for humans to just consume the content of.
So, Steve Jobs actually did this really really well. There's a book I I read called Presentation Secrets of Steve Jobs. He was a minimalist in real life.
Uh so, he was also a minimalist in his presentations. His presentations were usually just images, very little text, right? Whenever we can find images to get the same message across that we can for words, we should do that because >> an image is worth a thousand words.
>> Yeah. Or Yeah. Literally that, right?
Because if you just have like lines and lines and lines and lines and lines.
Yeah. Like I'm not reading that [ __ ] essay.
>> But the other thing as well is if we uh think back to what we were talking about before, logical versus emotional thinking. Images unlock the more emotional part of the brain. Words are analytical. it slows down heaps, right?
And so the split test that I ran was version A was just like dot points of like what the program was.
>> Version B was still dot points, but I just had an image to accompany it. So like this was just saying it's an in-person workshop. This was saying it's an in-person workshop. Here's a photo of like Kira talking to someone in a workshop, right? And then we had like the advisory calls. I was like, there's this many advisory calls and this is the schedule. This one is this is this many advisory calls. This is the schedule.
Also, here's the [ __ ] photo of the calendar. Right. Double the conversion rate.
>> Right. Is there a version C?
>> No, I have not a version C yet.
>> Come and see.
>> I wonder what I would do next. Actually, that's a good train of thought. Um, >> if you were to make a version C, would you maybe do a very short video about it instead?
>> I'd do like a GIF would be great. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like a GIF would be really good because it would load quickly. They wouldn't need to press it either. It wouldn't slow down the page load speed.
>> Number two is trust. So, how much can I trust this thing? Now, there's a couple of different ways trust is built. Um, one of them I actually used to have a slide on this uh in the workshops. I took it out to lower psychological resistance, frankly. Um, but I always say landing pages are this cross-section of a ven diagram between fashion and function. And you want to lie somewhere in the middle there. So fashion is it looks pretty. It has like cool
animations and stuff like that.
>> But what you think, right?
>> What do you mean?
>> So fashion is is a subjective term.
>> Oh, that's true. Yeah. Versus >> So if it's a sub subjective term, it's like what do you think good fashion is?
>> Yeah. But that what what about this side of it? Function is like follows all these principles like low clicks, low pace rates, low scrolls like high think of uh function as the conversion rate.
Fashion is like how you kind of get there and the language around it or the the art around it.
>> And then the function is the customer's side of it which is easy to use. It's operational. Low clicks, low but it's more important because that's what gets you the sales the bottom line. Well, if you're all function, it might tank your conversion rate a little bit because if you just look like a [ __ ] ad you'd click from like a porn ad, it looks like it was built in the 2000s. You're like, "Dude, I'm not putting my [ __ ] contact details into if I have to stick my dick in it, I'll get a rash." Right?
If the landing page looks untrustworthy, doesn't matter like how dialed in your physical resistance is, you're like, "Dude, I don't [ __ ] trust this thing." Right? So, you need to find this balance between the two. You do that by [ __ ] around and finding out to get to the middle, right?
>> Yeah. Because what happens is sometimes you get web developers and they're like, "Look at all these crazy animations we got." And it's like, "I don't know how to [ __ ] contact you." Like, it actually happened. One of my first ever clients was this luxury um like retirement complex, just like retirement in like the Skyra for like rich [ __ ] old people. Originally, the website was like perfect. It looked very fashionable. It looked very pretty. the and the form was like right where it should be. And then this like new web
design agency came in and just hid the form. I was like, "You [ __ ] actually out of your mind." And then like, "Oh, they're like the ads stopped working cuz you [ __ ] moved the form, you [ __ ] Put it back." And they just wouldn't do it. I'm like, "Oh my [ __ ] god." Right?
That's the idea of like fashion function. Now, trust as well. I could talk about trust for [ __ ] ages. Trust is the most important thing >> especially in and trust is evolving as well. So I'm going to spend some time on this one. So the first one is a lot of people make this mistake. They'll put their testimonials in rich text.
>> So what that means is I send you a text message saying's great and then you just write out on your landing page Sev's great Brandon Williams.
>> What's a better way to do it?
>> Better way to do it is [ __ ] screenshot my message. It's harder to doubt. But the other thing as well which what I'm noticing because we're in a hyper skeptical period of history in advertising or really history in general >> with AI and [ __ ] too.
>> Yeah, exactly. People want to be able to see that these people are real and so you want to be able to like put my full name in, put my like Instagram handle in and then people like I'm in the Entouragees ads saying very good things about the Entourage. People still message me and go, "What do you think about the Entourage? Like I just send them the [ __ ] transcript for the ad and like they still want to confirm like especially they want to confirm like hey you said this months ago. Do you still feel about like this now?
>> Yeah. Same with Reddit the other day.
You talking about Reddit?
>> Yeah cuz I made like a Reddit post like these guys legit and then one of our members sent it to me. So I just put it on Instagram. A couple of members like dived in there. Right.
>> Nice.
>> And so and yeah you can get into that as well like where do they get their trust from? Actually this is a good tangent actually. So where do they get their trust from? So you can present them trust, but where else are they going to go? Right? They'll go to Google, they'll go to Reddit, they'll go to ChatGpt, they'll ask like, "Is Brandon Willington a scam?" They'll try and they'll try and they'll try and contact like like so many of our members that are because obviously we have so many testimonies.
So many of our members get messages from people that are like just >> it's it's undeniable.
>> Yeah. Um so that's trust. Now, the other thing as well, you can actually lower psych well, you can lower thought for trust. So, you can also meet them where they're at. So, let's say you have a testimonial, right? And it's a testimonial video and you just use the default thumbnails of just like whatever YouTube randomly selects to be the thumbnail. What people will do is they'll either just watch the first one or they'll just watch whoever they find the most attractive in the thumbnail, which often won't be the one we want
them to watch because we want to meet them where they're at. And where they're at is I want to know this this works for me specifically, right? Not because they'll either like pick who's first, who's the hottest, or who literally just physically looks like me. Like same color, same hair, same outfit, same age. They'll just look for that, right? So certain instances like for example us, we want people to watch the testimonial most relevant to them.
And so if the thumbnail is just like a random person with no other text, they'll just watch. They go they might be a plumber and then the only one they watch with one click for lower physical resistance and one thought is just it might be a plumber, right? But if they're a personal trainer watching a plumber's testimonial is irrelevant to them. They go, "It doesn't work for me." I want them to with as little thought as possible, as little physical resistance as possible, find the testimonial that is most relevant to them so they can see
themselves in the testimonial, construct a strong enough reason, reach the same conclusion I want them to, which is this works for me. And so all we do when Aiden makes the thumbnails is he puts in bigger text than their name because the name doesn't particularly matter, but he'll put in really big text what industry that they're in. So, as you're scrolling through it, you can quickly with low psychological resistance go, I'm a personal trainer. Oh, Isaac's men's online fitness coach.
>> Yeah. Because one of the most common questions is, "Have you trained or had delivered this to anyone like me before?" >> Yeah. Does this work for my industry?
Right. Does this work for me specifically? Right. You can have all the testimonials in the world, but they just want to see, does this work for me specifically?
>> And that helps with psychological resistance, with trust, cuz they think, >> has this worked for someone like me before? And when they see it, they racing. Is there anything else on that list? One and two for psychological.
>> Yeah. So with the trust as well, the Google reviews. So the Google reviews, there's a couple weird parts of human evolution. One of those weird parts of human evolutions is we can tell when something's embedded or not. And so you want your Google reviews embedded. Other things that build trust as well on a more side tangent is the people that and I've already spoken about this. The people that avoid talking about the negatives, people again will just make up a story in their head and agree with it. And so you want to set reasonable expectations. So like some of my really
good performing ads, I know we're talking about landing pages, but we'll just talk about like here's all the stuff that sucks about the workshop.
Actually, that was the best performing ad from that. Me and Aiden filmed a bunch of ads just to address skepticism.
And so Aiden asked me in an ad like, "Honestly, tell us what are the worst things about the workshop." And I said, "Yeah, it's usually like sometimes their accounts are restricted and we got to like unlock them or they just can't [ __ ] advertise at all or they bought their business from someone, didn't get access to the accounts and [ __ ] like that." This is the technical setup, right? Had like our highest performing one who's like, "Oh yeah, cool." Like I was wondering that too. So talking about the negative or like I already talked about this one as well, like when you book a call with us, I send you our worst reviews and just read them out in a loom. What did this person have to
say? They gave us the lowest [ __ ] rating of all time. Oh, actually there's one more. There's other unobvious ways to build trust than just just testimonials. So, for example, I ran a split test on a landing page for industry set that I literally [ __ ] forgot about for a couple of weeks. I think like 2 months. And then I went to go edit the landing page, saw I was running a split test, and the new version had double the conversion rate of the first one. And I was like, "What
the [ __ ] did I do?" And so it actually took me a minute to realize what I'd done cuz usually I split test the headline. I changed the messaging. All I changed was the background image. And so the first version was just a stock image of a music producer at his computer. The second one was just me and Jackson presenting to a room with 12 people in it.
>> And that was the single most important variable.
>> That was it. That was literally all I [ __ ] changed because as you're scrolling through the page, the background of the page is like super underutilized real estate because people just neglect it cuz it's the background, but it follows them down the page. So they constantly see it even subconsciously and so subconsciously with this one, they can see me and Jackson addressing a room of 12 people and that was enough for them to go, "Oh, well those people are real." Right? So like the worst background image you can have is just a solid black color.
There's no humans in it. Slightly better is stock images because there are humans in it. Even better than that is like real because you can tell when photos are stock images, can't you? Right. Even better photos are like images of like you presenting to an audience or just like the team and stuff like that. Key thing is you want to be able to see human faces. That's the main important thing.
>> The other obvious one is like when you've been mentioned in PR like I embed like our podcast and stuff so you can see like not just me talk about myself but other people talk about us. And the third one is curious versus committed.
Now, we've already spoken about this, so I don't need to spend too much time on this. So, how much of the language on your page is about commitment, right?
So, I'll give you a good example. So, let's say for example, you've got your form, right? You've got your form, your CTA is here, and then you've got a form here. You have no idea how impactful just changing this is. So, for example, contact us or inquire now or start your application.
>> That's what everyone does.
>> Well, yeah. And it's also kind of like very high commitment. What we want to do is try and find remixes to the language to slide it a little bit further down, not all the way down. Again, we're trying to find this balancing act so that feels like they're starting a process, right? So it might be answer a few questions to tailor your transformation >> or take your next step is what you showed me to do.
>> Yeah. You want to make it feel like they're starting a process and there's an outcome on the next page at least on this sales call.
>> If you have very curious language which would be like the lead magnet funnel.
Sure you'll get heaps of leads >> but then again sometimes that can be the detriment like your show rates and your close rate and your lead probably very poor. What about asking them if their capacity or capability to actually do the things like for example with me teaching people how to make organic content for their business. One of the questions I ask them to qualify them is how capable are you to commit one to two hours a week to filming organic content?
Yeah.
>> If they say I don't have any time at all, the workshop's not going to work.
>> Do you do that >> on the landing page or do you do that in the sales call? Um, for this specific example, what you could do is I'll put that in the sales call because what they're going to try and do on the landing page is talk themselves into the lowest psychological resistance answer and their first response when no one is trying to convince them otherwise is, "I don't have [ __ ] time for this." But if you can get to the sales call and have a back and forth conversation with them where you get them to open their screen time and realize they spend three and a half hours a day on Instagram
anyway, go, "Oh, you got three and a half hours right there." Right? and they go, "All right, but they didn't reach that conclusion there." >> Yeah.
>> Right. Maybe you could try and find a way like in like a clever way like in the forms of how much time you spend on Instagram a day. It's like 3 hours. It's like all right. You reckon you got 3 hours film Instagram content? That could be a clever one, right? The last and 10th principle is chasing problems upstream. So if you read this book um profit first. Yeah. Yeah. So the idea behind profit first is accounting is a lag indicator. You don't find out that
you're unprofitable until you reconcile your accounts from last month and realize that you're unprofitable. And so accounting is a lag indicator.
Advertising can very much be the same thing. Often when there's a problem on like one specific step, whether it's clicks, conversions, or close, it could be an indicator for sure that there's a problem on that page. However, you can't neglect the fact that you can chase that problem upstream and maybe that problem that you were experiencing here or here is a lag indicator for something that you experienced at a previous step.
Right? So, I gave the example before.
Let's say you have a really low conversion rate. Sure, you could look at your landing page and and make some changes there and you should do that.
However, don't neglect chasing the problem upstream and going, "Well, who am I sending here? Are they the right people? Are they in the right mindset?
Am I showing this to the right people?
Am I giving committed language instead of curious language? Am I filtering for the right thing?" Let's say they get to your sales process and you're saying things like, "Oh, they're expecting a consulting call." Well, chase the problem upstream. Was the expectation being set that this is a consulting call or is this a sales call? Right? And again, like chase the problem. You can even chase it all the way up to here, right? And so you want to be able to chase problems upstream. If you have a show rate issue, maybe it's in your booking sequence, maybe the expectations
are unclear on the landing page when they booked a call. Were they like really clear on what they were doing?
And so you can chase problems upstream because if you have a problem here, it could be a lag indicator for something that you did wrong here. That make sense?
>> Yeah.
>> Cool.
>> No questions. That's pretty common sense.
>> Cool. So those are all 10 principles. So now that you understand those, as you start building out your ads, even like individual elements of your landing page, if you can look at it through the lens of this stuff, you can troubleshoot, you can diagnose, and you can just see a more holistic kind of overview of your lead generation strategy rather than just being like little individual parts that have no relationship with each other. Is there a template or a way I can map this all out
to visually see where I'm could be better, where I'm weak, where I'm really strong, where I can optimize, >> what data can then go back the other way. Yeah, I use a Google sheet which um we'll record a loom for it later because what you can do is again you count the cards. You just look at the last 30 days or last however long and you go all right my link clickthrough rates here, my conversion rates here. Oh, my show rate sucks though.
>> Yeah, >> my like for I'll give you a perfect example actually. um when we do like advisory calls for um for people that are like meta so Facebook and Instagram if they're saying like and again this is the chasing problems upstream if they're saying they're getting a really low conversion rate on their landing page we'll ask them like what's your link clickthrough rate and if it's north of 2% it's like suspiciously high >> right so what we might be better off doing is adding more commitment so it
goes down to 1% but our conversion rate triples again that dials, not switches thing.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. We'll talk at quite a length about like industry like KPIs and stuff like that, like what link clickthrough rates to aim for, what CPM to aim for, what conversion rates to aim for. But at the end of the day, you should be able and you can model all of this out in a Google sheet where you can just put in >> I'm spending this much money. This is my CPM. This is my link clickthrough rate.
This is this conversion rate, this conversion rate, this conversion rate, this conversion rate, and then just spit out the bottom line revenue at the end.
And then what about in terms of uh the wording of specific things across the the funnel?
>> Is there a way to document and put into a bucket of oh this works to then repurpose back to let's say the creative?
>> Uh so you mean like looking at the numbers just seeing what's working.
>> So so beyond the numbers.
>> Oh okay. So like seeing what like what is working so you can like replicate more of that. Oh yeah that's a good question. So like, okay, ads are an easy example of that. So if you have one ad that's doing very very well, what you want to kind of do is like dig around in that direction for adjacent or complimentary ideas. So let's say for example, your best performing ad is uh the idea of it is relying on word of
mouth. Well, what would an adjacent idea to that be? Like what's close by to that?
>> Relying on word of mouth. adjacent would be I don't know affiliate networking.
>> Yeah, like referrals, right? And so you talk about referrals next and then that does well, right? Or if the the good performing ad is skepticism. So like the one that's doing well for us is like what's the worst things about the workshop?
>> An adjacent idea for that might be what do people struggle with the most? It's a similar idea. It's worded differently.
It's like well the worst thing is like getting their accounts set up. what they struggle with the most. Might be your account set up again, but it's just message slightly differently.
>> But you'd only change one variable so you know exactly what the needle >> So there's this uh concept in copywriting that Michael Masterson came up with I think in the '9s. So Michael Masterson was like the [ __ ] goat for copywriting pre-200s and he he summarized so the video's on YouTube actually. He gave I think it was like an hour long this talk about he summarized all of his years and years
and years of experience advertising into what he called the rule of one. And so the rule of one is good marketing copy follows one idea, one story, one emotion, one promise and one call to action. And so what you can do is when you write ads, you follow the rule of one. And then when an ad's doing well, you look at it through the lens of the rule of one. So what was the idea here?
What was the story here? what was the emotion here? And then you just dig around in that direction. Now that we understand the 10 principles, we need to understand who we're speaking to. So me and Sev are going to hop on the whiteboard and create his customer avatar so you can follow along with us.
So as Sev's going through this exercise, I want you to follow along. Now, I actually teach this in the workshop. Um, what you want to avoid thinking is Sev's business is different to mine. This doesn't apply to me. I'm just going to skip ahead. What you want to do and this is useful not just for this exercise but any coaching programs that you do is you want to think not this doesn't apply to me but how can I make this apply to me right so when we run our workshops we'll give feedback on different people's ads and I tell people remember like how can I make this apply to me like that
person's a plumber I'm a personal trainer but how can I make this apply to me and so you want to think as I'm asking set of questions ask yourself the same questions because you'll write down different responses but the thought process will be near identical We're going to be asking the same questions and so go through this exercise on your own pen and paper cuz obviously service responses are going to be different to yours. We need to fill up this whiteboard with remember my principle which was like constructing your reasons.
>> What we want to do is like come up with every single reason. Yeah.
>> So draw a little stick figure in the middle of the page.
>> Now underneath it I just want you to write age, location, and like two or three descriptors. So the average age range of your ideal customer >> average 35 to 60.
>> Cool. That's the average range like 60% >> of your members sit around there.
>> Buyers.
>> Yeah. Yep. Cool. Now underneath that just the location. So the service area.
Now I want you to write two to three descriptors. Now what I mean by descriptor? So previously with Facebook ads um because you're going to be running Facebook and Instagram ads, not Google search ads. Previously with Facebook ads, you used to be able to do like really really niche interests. Um, now it's mostly automated. So the interest targeting is more of an indicator and treated as a suggestion to meta. The content uh is really what does the targeting. So what we're going to write on the sides of this, but just
write two to three descriptors. So like they're going to be a business owner.
>> Yeah. Underneath it. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Anything else?
>> I would say they've been in the business for a while, so they have authority.
They're they're like an industry leader.
>> So they're like an established business.
>> Yeah.
>> Yep. Anything else? Does don't need to hit a third, but like if does anything else come to mind?
>> They're a leader in the industry.
>> Yeah. Cool. I think we've hit that down.
>> Industry leader.
>> Yeah, sure. I want you to draw an arrow to the right all the way to just like just to the right of like with the age.
Yep. Just the right. And then one to the left. And then I want one that goes from the left over his head to the right. Now humans are like mice. I've make this joke in the workshop all the time.
They've got like bits of cheese they're chasing after and cats they're running away from as well. So you got pleasure and pain. So on the right just write towards. So we're going to have towards motivators. So what are the what are they moving towards and trying to achieve through using your service and then away from on the left. So what are they running away from or trying to avoid? Past, present, or future. And then they've also had things they've tried in the past to get from A to B. So on the top arrow, just write like
previous attempts. The top one, the one that goes over his head, like previous attempts. So they've tried stuff in the past. It was like annoying, frustrating, or didn't work with them. So with the towards motivators, what I want you to do is just write them down and talk us through what are the things that they're moving towards through using your service. Just the first like three that come to mind.
>> So camera confidence.
>> Yep. They want to make organic content, but they're not confident in front of camera system to create. They want a system to create their their organic content um because they get lost. They don't know what to do.
>> And finally, they want to move towards >> more organic leads. Now, those first three you've come up with, they're good indicators of like directions to go in.
What we want to do is unpack them layers deeper. So remember what I was talking about before uh the constructing your arguments. We want like multiple different premises. We want a solid set of reasons why someone should do something. Three reasons isn't sufficient. Just camera confidence in and of itself systems to create like they won't make the psychological resistance jump to what that will happen. So the way that you unpack these is you ask two very important questions.
You ask the questions either and maybe just write them underneath it. You ask why. So that's the first question to unpack it or you ask the question then what happens? So if I do this then what happens next? So why do they want camera confidence?
>> They want camera confidence because they want to be able to showcase what they do to the target audience they're trying to attract.
>> Cool. And then what happens? And then when that happens they as soon as they put it out they'll be able to be discovered by said audience then that will create engagement which will then create uh conversation which will then bring those curious people to then potentially become customers.
>> Yeah. Cool. So start writing that underneath camera confidence. And the way you want to do this as well is don't try and logic your way around this. So you want what uh Malik would refer to as free association. We just want to dump down ideas. Don't think, oh, is this thing down here? Just whatever's in your head, just dump it down and just talk us through it.
>> So, what am I writing?
>> Just the answers to why or then what. Go in any direction. Don't feel like it needs to be logically sorted.
>> So, just for camera confidence.
>> Yeah, just for camera confidence for now. And just unpack it. You just write around it. Should be messy.
>> Once you have camera confidence, it'll it'll be u more content output, more interest generated. And once that happens, more potential customers, I guess, spoken to.
>> Yeah. Sweet. So, you can see we've already we started with camera confidence, which is nice and will resonate with a certain audience, but now we've unpacked like three more reasons. And arguably, the third one that you've come up with is significantly more impactful or convincing than just I want to be like confident on camera.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Um, can you talk about camera confidence and like why they Okay, here's another way you can think about these as well. If you can write down specific situations that they found themselves in. So, you filmed an ad about this where like the opening hook is like most Perthbased business owners are not creating content and they know they should >> where like people are nervous on camera.
So could you like desri just just you don't have to write down but can you just describe a situation someone will find themselves in when they lack camera confidence.
>> You're about to start making content for your business but you're stuttering. You don't know what to say and you absolutely just freeze.
>> Mhm.
>> So nothing gets done and nothing happens.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So just write down that as a summary, right? Like stuttering on camera when you hit record. Just write it around. It doesn't need to be like tidy. Now, this is an example of free association that stuttering on camera would actually be in away from motiv, but we'll circle we'll circle back to that later. All we're trying to do now is just have a framework that we can get ideas out. Don't worry too much about is my answer right or wrong. We're trying to get ideas out cuz what we're going to do at the end of this is we're going to be able to look at all this and have like 50 [ __ ] ad ideas.
>> Nice.
>> So, let's do system to create now. So, I'll let you talk through this process using the why or the then what.
>> Okay. So, system to create. Why do you need a system to create? You need to be able to know the very first step you need to do when creating that first piece of content for your business. Now, when you don't have a system to create, generally what happens is where do you even begin? You need to know what to say, you then need to know how to say it and why you need to say it in a way for your customers to feel like you're reading their minds. They they feel like
you understand them. But without a this system to begin with, you don't know where to start. So I guess that would be the first dot point. You don't know where to start.
>> Yep.
>> And then from there, the then what when you do have a system to create, you'll be able to start frictionlessly going through the pipeline to go, "Oh, yep.
This is the first step I need to take." And you can batch that. And then the next step, next step, next step. And then all of a sudden, you have an overwhelming amount of content you can post. And that's it. You the system creates the abundance of content to put out.
>> And then what happens from there? Then you start getting the data which then tells you what works. And then when you see what works, you'll understand why it works to then make that better content later. So you go from quantity that the system helps you build to then the qu the quality which is the system then upgrades you to.
>> Yeah. Cool. So write down some of those points. So there were a few things there. One was like getting an abundance of content because now it's frictionless.
And then what happened after that was well now we have we can make decisions based off of numbers not feelings. And it kind of conveniently uh linked to your third point which is more organic leads. One more thing you can put there under the system to create is often when people are new to something there's like what they know they know which is not much. what they know that they don't know which they feel like is a lot but then there's what they don't know that they don't know. So there's this kind of
like naivity to the whole thing and they they just don't know and it's just this they have this like avoidant relationship with it. We can circle back to that but let's go to the next one. So like more organic leads. So >> no dot point yet.
>> What do you do you feel is there anything you want to put there?
>> Oh I thought you were about to say something.
>> No I was just kind of I was just dancing around it but let's go more organic leads. So if we have more organic leads like the obvious one is we could spend less on ads.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So, if we spend less on ads, what happens to the P&L statement specifically?
>> More profit.
>> Exactly. Right. So, I'd chuck that in there. You can even get into like niche specific examples like if they're currently relying on an agency, well, they can cut that retainer down.
>> What else? I'll let you on.
>> So, let's uh spend on ads and agencies.
>> Creative retainers that don't work for the organic leads. When you get more organic leads, that means you've AB tested for free. If you have time, which you should, to create organic content at scale, then you'll be able to have an abundance of data. And that will then eventually get better and better and better to then go, "Oh, that customer came from that specific video that I made organically after testing it for a while. I should now make more of that
specific content." which means that you spent less money on ads, but then because one video performed well organically, you know exactly which video to repurpose as an ad. So, not only do you get more organic leads, you get more ad leads because the creator has been tested organically to the human >> as that.
>> Another thing as well, more trust.
>> Yeah. So, your ads will actually improve as well. So >> like a lot of people when like they see our ad, they'll like doom scroll through my Instagram to see if I'm legit or not.
>> Yes. So that is the other ad improvement. More trust. The more trust is also validity.
>> Yeah.
>> From ads funnel.
>> Yep.
>> And then finally I would also say the organic leads come from other sources.
So, and this is my one of my biggest points, AI search optimized because more and more people use less Google and more AI bots like Claw, Gemini, Chat, GPT to go, who is the best in my city for this and it will come up with a list and that AI scrapes organic content.
>> Now, looking at everything that you've written down, is there are there any other thoughts that come to mind? And you want to think of this through the lens of if I had to construct a debate and have a list of reasons like stuff that's going through their head. Is there anything else that comes to mind?
>> Uh you're building an internal marketing system. It's it adds value to the business.
>> Y >> and not by saying adds value because it brings more leads and all of that. The business is more valuable at an evaluation level because >> you can say it's an asset.
>> Yeah. It's a >> but now we own this list.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Asset. And that there is super important because if you hire an agency, if they leave or you fire them, >> Yep.
>> all of that data is turn off. Yeah.
>> And and it's gone. If you have a an organic marketing funnel or system with someone external, if they leave or you fire them, all of that data, all of that system goes with them. If you build it internally, you can get external contractors or uh freelancers to go into your funnel to do what you need them to do >> through their own way. But if they leave, you just get someone else that
adds that create becomes an asset which takes away vulnerability. So that segus well to away from.
>> Cool. So now we move to the other side.
So away from motivators. So couple ways you can think about this thing. Um, you can think in terms of time. So, what are they moving away from that they've already experienced? What are they moving away from that they're currently experiencing? And what are they avoiding in the future if they do not fix this?
So, looking through that lens, what are the first three things that come to mind when I say, "What are they moving away from?" >> They're moving away from guessing.
>> Sure. Can you be specific? They're moving away from paying someone to guess for them that doesn't know them as well as they do themselves.
>> So, the first the way I interpreted that was they're moving away from spinning their wheels. That's one that actually comes up a lot with like our with you members, especially like men's online fitness coaches. Like, I've been going to the gym for [ __ ] 5 years. I'm still 30% body fat. So, that's one idea.
We'll unpack that obviously like we did.
What's what's another separate idea to that? They're moving away from producing trying to produce content that doesn't resonate with their audience.
>> Cool. So, I think that's still the same as spinning their wheels. You can also look at um like just the opposite of these.
>> So, the opposite of camera confidence would be anxiety. Anxiety being on screen.
>> Yep. Camera um >> camera anxiety.
>> Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And what's the opposite of uh more organic leads? It would just be like increased ad spend.
>> Yeah. Uh yeah, increased ad spend or or no that Yeah, increased ad spend >> or even like dep like as a unpacking that one more like a dependence on ad spend.
>> Yeah, I'm going to also put in there cuz this is one I get a lot of um word of mouth.
>> Yep. Word of mouth referrals like that whole bucket. Cool. Well, let's start at um spinning the wheels. So, go through the same process. Why or then what?
>> So, they're spinning the wheels. Why?
Because they don't know what to do. They >> don't know what they don't know. They don't know what they don't know. They're absolutely just guessing and they're guessing in the wrong way and it becomes frustrating and they give up and then they realize they haven't they've plateaued or they're getting less revenue than ever before.
>> Sure.
>> Um and then what they Yeah. They feel like their business is failing. Camera anxiety. They Why do they have camera anxiety? Because >> let's let's let's do spinning. So just write some of those points down.
>> So spinning the wheels they are not doing enough slashcorrectly.
>> And when they do that then what happens?
>> Then what happens is >> they waste time.
>> Yeah.
>> New traffic and that is wasted time. And then what happens is plateau. Yeah.
Business >> camera anxiety.
>> Camera anxiety.
>> Why does that happen? It happens because they don't know what to say or how to say what they're trying to say.
>> Should you um So, one of the things I mentioned over here was like a specific example. So, we got like stuttering on camera. You can kind of repeat that over there.
>> Um >> but it would look like waste like it takes [ __ ] 1 hour to film one.
>> The words time to create is too high, too long.
>> Y >> another example is fear of judgment.
Yeah. Fear of judgment. Then what happens? Well, because they fear a judgment, they don't even bother.
>> Yeah. So, it's just inaction.
>> Yeah. Inaction.
>> Yeah. So, do in action and then obviously you can then what is very obvious. Nothing >> in action.
>> Yeah. No revenue, no profit, no leads, no sales. And then dependence on ad spend or word of mouth. So, it's alternatives. You're relying on other people essentially is what this is.
>> Relying on other people.
>> Relying on a platform. You're relying on someone to tell someone they know about you.
You don't really have control of anything.
>> Yeah.
>> Cool. Now, looking at all of that and all of that, is there anything new that springs to mind now that you can make any connections between any of them?
>> If you don't put content out, your business doesn't grow.
>> So, all of this is linking to like one big idea, which is business growth.
Cool. So, >> now what you can see is remember how I had that diagram before, which is like the conclusion is business grows with organic content. Now we have multiple different supporting reasons to prop that up rather than just saying you're not camera confidence >> or camera confident. Right. Cool. Now they've probably also tried things in the past to get from A to B. Can you just talk through what some of those previous attempts are?
>> So previous attempts would be putting out one piece of content and they would get no views and they would just give up.
>> Yeah. Previous attempts would be trying to ask their current or previous customers to refer them to someone else.
It may work for a little bit, but then it starts to plateau. Previous attempts would be to try to boost their crappy organic that gets them more views, but it doesn't lead to sales.
>> Cool.
>> Um, >> so write down some of these. just like different because what we want to be able to do is remember so you're constructing a debate this customer already has preconceived notions values beliefs interpretations of how you do what you do and they will try and again like with the philosophy of categorization they'll try and put you into a category >> and so if you just give them the broad idea of organic content they will put you in the organic content bucket
>> he's a course bro >> yeah exactly right so that's going to be an interpretation. So, we need to address that rather than just kind of ignoring it. So, we need to go what are all their preconceived notions about how they've tried to do this in the past cuz they're going to try and put me in the same bucket. And so, we need to address that in the ads, the landing pages, the ner sequences. So, just dot out like things they've tried in the past. You tried binge watching YouTube. You tried uh like there any other [ __ ] uh you can do anywhere around previous attempts. Doesn't really matter. So,
previous attempts DIY online learning, >> you tried like self-paced courses. You tried talking to chat GPT. You tried getting a UGC creator.
>> Yeah. UGC.
>> You try getting a receptionist to do it.
>> Or they would Yeah. Yeah. Tried an agency. That's the biggest one for sure.
They tried an agency and they've burnt 15 grand and >> they got no leads from it.
>> Yep. We can do so much more with 15 grand in a short amount of time by not even donating it to Mark Zuckerberg. But when we do, it's optimized because of the creative, because of all of these.
>> Yeah. Cool.
>> Yeah. Try try agency is the big one.
>> So sweet. So now like we started on an empty whiteboard. Now we've just got like a pretty holistic list of reasons why someone should do your thing and reasons why they should not continue doing the same thing which they're trying to do in the past. Because people are going to again psychological resistance, they're just going to revert to their mean. And so we have to display enough reasons so that the cost of inaction outweighs the cost of actually just doing something differently because you can't keep doing the same thing and do a different result. But we need to
communicate all of these. Some people will just need like a few of them. Some people are going to need significantly more. So is there anything else that comes to mind?
>> Yes. Uh the biggest one is actually editing. If you were to go deep into the pipeline of all of the creative, people think that they have to edit the video themselves and it's going to take ages.
So, they don't even start recording it or coming up with ideas. So, they think about the whole process >> and they have to do the whole process and they don't even begin with the first step, which is the easiest. When they get to editing, if they do get to editing, they don't know how to use Cap Cut. But what we do is teach them how to do it with >> Cool. So, that sounds like a previous attempt. like they tried to DIY editing or they didn't try at all cuz they just like didn't know or they didn't know thought they didn't know how to do or thought it was too hard. Um, one more
thing that can be useful to look at all of this is is there anything that a customer or a prospect has said to you where you're like that was interesting and what you want to avoid is thinking oh only one person said this so no one else is experiencing you want to think like if one person said it a thousand people thought it. Yep. Sev, I love all of this. I love the system. Uh, this all makes sense. I know how to do it now. I still want to delegate it.
>> Cool. So, it's like delegation. It's just this can't someone else do it?
Simpsons episode.
>> Yeah.
>> And they've tried delegating before, but with what we do, delegation makes it easier.
>> Yeah. And so, what's your argument against delegation then? Cuz remember, we got to debate them. So is the argument well you need to know how to do it before you delegate it because otherwise if you just blindly delegate it how do you know if they did a good job?
>> That's exactly the argument. So if they have done the delegation before it's because and it didn't work. It's because the system wasn't correct internally but they didn't know what they didn't know.
So when they try to delegate to someone else that person also doesn't know but they also don't know how to ask the business owner for some weird reason.
But I wingman that frictionless system painoint so that when they do delegate >> it's an easier process. I actually had a client um come in learn the system and that happened and then they hired a videographer that I taught >> and then 3 months later he got two 50k clients organically and I'm just like [ __ ] proof of point.
>> Yeah. Sweet. Anything else?
>> That's it.
>> Sweet. Hey, if you're going through this and you're realizing, hey, I'd actually really like to get some help alongside this, we run currently 50 support calls a week. As soon as you join the with you program, you can immediately access this the day that you sign up. And so, what a lot of our members will do is as soon as they join, if they're already running ads or they're already closed, they'll just start hopping on some calls before they even get to a workshop. So, if you want to be able to learn more about that, then click below. Now that we understand who we're talking to, we're going to go through a simple three-step formula so that we can nail our
messaging. All right, cool. So, now that we're clear on who we're speaking to, what Sev needs to do now is get clear on how to communicate his offer in not a purely logical analytical way. So, remember before I talked about the thing, result feeling. A lot of really mediocre advertisers will just talk about the thing like the features.
Slightly better advertisers will talk about the results and the outcomes. the really good advertisers can link that to a feeling and an emotion that they either require or that they try and avoid actively. So the way we're going to do this is just across the board uh go like thing result feeling like kind of divide the board into like three sections and again just like I was saying before the last section don't think this doesn't apply to me think how can I make this apply to me. So, as I ask Sev questions, you're going to want
to think for yourself, like what's the answer for this for me, what Sev writes down is going to be very different to what you write down, but the thought process will be the same nonetheless.
So, under the thing, well, firstly, just for everyone, cuz we haven't even really spoken about it. Can you just explain to people what your offer is?
>> My offer is to teach your internal marketing team or you as a business owner how to create organic content that sells for your business.
>> Cool. Now, under the thing, what I want you to do is just list features of how you do what you do.
>> So, we start with uh workshops.
>> Yep. Are they in person or live stream or both?
>> Uh live stream.
>> Cool.
>> I also offer a one-on-one inperson, but then we also offer one to many group for the smaller businesses.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. Cool. Now, just talk about some of the features of like what do they learn?
Don't get into outcomes yet. Just think about curriculum.
>> So we're still here.
>> Yep. Still on the thing.
>> Uh so curriculum so you learn um optimize brand language. So your brand's identity talk how to talk to your customers or future customers in the way that they want you to. So we do that and then we do ideation. So how to come up with organic ideas that speak that language.
>> How many ideas will they come up with?
Do you know? uh roughly roughly 100 plus ideas and that is uh a mixture of manual and uh brainstorming scraping from the internet and AI utilization.
>> Yeah. Cool. Another way to think through this thing category is like the who, what, where, when, how.
>> Yeah. So, okay.
>> So, who who's it for again?
>> So, who's it for? It's for um business owners, established business owners.
>> Cool. We've got the what, which is the workshops and the different variations.
>> The where is kind of the same live streamer or in person. What about the how?
>> The how. So, we go through a digital workbook. Everyone has access to it and it's all lifetime access. It's updated as well um via something called notion.
And we go through the workbook across uh one to two days. So, one to two days.
And then there's uh a bit of theory, but there's a lot of practical.
>> Cool. What does the practical look like?
>> So the practical is you will film at least uh or let's say up to cuz some people go less up to 20 vids.
>> Mhm. And then you will learn how to edit and you will have seven u drafts in your uh social media channel. Cool. Is there anything that happens after the workshop?
>> Yeah. So, oh, and then after that you also get delegation strategy and that's for how to hire onboard a social media manager internally or how to talk to a videographer back and forth properly so that they don't go [ __ ] on you. Um, and how to navigate an editing team as well.
>> Yeah.
>> What happens after the workshop? Uh, learned this from you.
>> Y >> 6 months of support.
>> Mhm.
>> And then I do this via WhatsApp. Um but then I'm also eventually doing a school as well.
>> Y >> and eventually after that will be advisory stuff. Uh but yeah, six months of support u for when you finish a video and you want to post it but you're not sure then you send it to me to review it to give you feedback if you're still not quite sure so you have more confidence in posting it. And then when a video does well and you want to know why we discuss it that's part of the support.
or if a video or a set of videos bombs, we then go over it and we talk about why they could have not done so well. Uh when you get a DM, how to respond to it properly or when you get a whole body of new followers, how to talk to them to then move them from curious to >> committed. Yeah. Cool. All right. So, we've touched on one of the results which is like filming 20 videos. Can you just and we've already also spoken about them from the customer avatar as well.
Yeah.
>> What are some of the results and outcomes they get? So don't get to feeling yet. So feeling would be like the camera anxiety, but the result be like what are the tangible outcomes that they get?
>> Yeah. So the first result that I have to talk about because it's the trend unfortunately it's vanity metrics.
>> Yeah.
>> The views increased. Yep.
>> But that's part of it anyway. So, views are increased, >> engagement, uh, inquiry increase, and most importantly, sales increase.
>> Yeah. Cool. You You jump to what I was going to I was thinking I might have to push you to do cuz usually when I talk to content people that they'll just talk about like the idea of build brand like we posted a real about this the other day where like content agencies, videographers, they'll just talk about the idea of building brand. But just like we do we did with the customer avatar you want to ask then what happens then what happens then what happens cuz sometimes there's a lag indicator which is a far more compelling reason.
>> Yeah. So the reason why I want this result is like you said >> Mhm.
>> the sales increase we will understand you will also understand why the sales has increased to then reflect back to the views because then that will snowball as well.
>> Yeah. very similar strategy to what you do except just for organic.
>> Yep. Cool. Any other outcomes?
>> Uh so vanity metrics and then also the revenue >> Yeah.
>> metrics. So I'll just label this properly >> which is that one. Um and then from there you will know yeah your uh the result will have a content management system internally.
>> Cool. Yeah.
>> Anything else? Like you can also think of outcomes.
>> Um outcomes will be Yeah. Uh more customers and then you'll also have I said more brand awareness increasing >> once you find yourself kind of going in a circle. That's kind of where you tie it up.
>> But yeah, you'll also have optimized ad um creative. So one of the results was we had a video that went viral. I'm like great. Where was the audience? And they would say in America. Great. Is that where your customers are? They're like, "No." Like, "Cool. Where's your customers?" They say, "Perth, the city." I'm like, "Great. Run it as an ad.
Target Perth." Then what happened?
>> Customers.
>> Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, let's talk about the feelings. So, when they achieve these outcomes, what are the feelings or emotions that they say they experience?
>> Uh, they they actually say they're overwhelmed.
>> Overwhelmed with leads.
>> Yeah. Overwhelmed with leads. Another feeling is clarity. Um, yeah. don't need to guess.
>> So, it's predictable.
>> Yeah, it's more predictable. Marketing feels easier and excitement for next piece of content. And they're also addicted. And that's the main one I like to get to because when I did this for my own business and I got a lead from an organic piece of content, I was addicted to making more. And that's the same process I like to get my customers to as well. Cool. Sweet. So now what we've
written out is we've just started with like yeah these are workshops but we've unpacked that so we know all the different features. We've we've found the results and the outcomes. We've chased them downstream a little bit but now we also know like you'll experience this and you will feel this. And so what we want to do next pass me the whiteboard marker is next we're going to write a headline for the landing page.
So you want to think of the headline as obviously just the big idea. Now, like I said, like advertising is an art versus a science. So, with the headline, you can do or say whatever the [ __ ] you want within within the advertising policies and the law. The science is how do we measure that typically with a conversion rate, right? So, what we do to write the headline is just to give you some guard rails. We want the headline to be a combination. So, headline equals result
plus feeling. So what we want to do is we want to look at everything we've written down because we've written down lots of things and we want to go what two stand out to us the most. So which feeling do you feel like just stands out to you the most and is the most compelling?
>> I would say overwhelmed with leads.
>> Yeah, probably was the first one that you came up with.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> And then what outcome do you feel is the most compelling >> from the results?
>> Yeah. Yeah. From the results.
>> Uh I would say more customers. Yeah.
>> Well, they're the same thing though.
Yeah. More customers, you get so many more customers, you're overwhelmed by them. So, that's the result and the feeling.
>> Yeah. So, you already just said the headline. What did you just say? You get overwhelmed with so many customers.
>> You get so many customers, you're overwhelmed by how many you're getting.
>> Yeah. So, then that would be like your draft headline. So, the your draft headline now is >> create content that overwhelms you with leads.
>> Yeah. or create so much content it overwhelms you with customers, >> right?
>> That's your headline.
>> Now, from a integrity point of view, when it comes to how soon it happens, when when students or clients call you up and go, what's the guarantee or how long will it take?
>> With ads, it's instant. With organic, it's different. It depends.
>> So, then it comes to managing expectations, right? So that's when it's communicated in like your nurture sequences on the landing pages in the FAQ.
>> You got to put in the effort >> in the sales process as well, right? But just merely at the headline at like face value like just saying get so many customers you're overwhelmed or create content that overwhelms you with leads and sales. That's sufficient, right?
>> Yeah. and then the sub headline. Because when people look at the landing page, if this is the landing page, there's a big piece of text up here, which is the headline we've just drafted, their eyes will scan that, go, "Sounds cool, but like how does that actually work?" And then the sub headline is the more micro because if you think macro, slightly less macro, micro. So now the sub headline what we do is we just need to make a sentence or two without
overthinking it that just elaborates how you achieve these results and feelings.
And so what it might be is >> something like this is my first draft is two-day workshops to ideulate 100 plus idea ideas ideas >> and implement them before you leave.
>> Yep.
>> That's my first draft. Now, just as a workflow tip for anyone, I kind of [ __ ] raw dogged that one and just ripped it on the first go, but when we do this in the workshop, what I find is an easier workflow is often when people like they they look at their page, they're just looking at the words and trying to draft the headline in their head. What is often more helpful or at least easier to do is just write down a
[ __ ] headline. Just go, "All right, if I had to make a sentence out of that and that, what's that sentence?" Write down the really bad sentence. Look at it.
Feel a little bit of shame for how you've abolished the [ __ ] Queen's English and go, "All right, not my best work." But if I had to remix this into something that I'd actually be happy to publish, what would that be? It's much easier to look at the words on the page and remix them than it is to just bounce draft after draft around in your head.
Same with a sub headline. So going over it result is you have more more customers that are overwhelmed that you're overwhelmed with leads through our live workshops whether it's in person or online. Do you go into that much detail on that subheading or >> doesn't matter too much like >> it's still we're not really like again we're still pretty high up on the page.
>> Yeah.
>> So we're not getting too into the micro like this is sufficient. They can go, "Yeah, I like the idea of workshops." But then they'll think, "Is it online or is it in person?" They might scroll down and find that out.
>> Oh, there's two options. Cool.
>> Yeah. Right. And then that's when you have the FAQs, different sections, and we'll go through like, "What sections do we need to have to address all of this?" And again, cuz the landing page is just one big debate, and we need to order the content, prioritize the content, and communicate the content in a way that it talks them into at least completing that application form and just doing the next step. Now that we understand our messaging, we need to convert that messaging into a high converting landing page.
>> All right. So, now that we've got the principles kind of dialed in, what we need to cover now is actually the destination we're going to send traffic to. Now, the first question that comes up that I need to address is what's the difference between a website and a landing page. So, the analogy that I use is a website is a bit like if you go to just a library, right? And like you've got all these different books, you've got all these different things you can choose from. However, a landing page is simply taking one of those very specific
books out. So, for example, like here's one of our old clients 89. So, the garage door specialist. When you click and you go to their website, they've got an about us section. They've got residential doors. Underneath that, they've got different sections.
Commercial doors. Underneath that, they've got different sections. Whereas when we have a landing page, we want one very clear and direct action, one very clear message. Like if I click an ad for the letter B, I don't want to go to the alphabet. I just want to go to the letter B. Right? Whereas a website is for more people, more of a directory, right? So if you go to our landing page, there's no menu at the top. There's no home. There's no about us. There's no blog. There's no jobs here.
>> Straight to the point.
>> Yeah. There's one thing. You clicked an ad for the with you program. Literally everything here is about the wiki program. There's nothing else you can do. The only call to action on this page is what I want you to do, which is start your application for the wiki program.
Now, what I used to use our website as an example, but now our website is a very poor example because to prove my point, I like halfdeed our website. So, our website literally just says there's only two types of people that come here.
We only send traffic from our ads to with your application funnel. So, you're either wanting to apply and that takes you to our landing page or you're a competitor and it takes you to apply to drive for Uber, right?
That is one of those examples of like do as I say, not as I do because this is me just like [ __ ] around with stuff, right? That wouldn't be considered best practice. Best practice for a website will be something like 89s where you've got all these different things, but I just like [ __ ] around on the internet. Now, we've covered already the principles for a landing page. So, physical resistance and psychological resistance. So physical resistance being clicks, keystrokes, scrolls.
Psychological resistance being thought, trust, and like curious versus committed. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to show you this landing page and based on everything that we've talked about the other day, I'm just going to scroll through this and just shout out feedback on this landing page based on those principles. So starting from the top, >> I'm kind of already bored because it's just too much text. There's no face to the product. Um, >> so with the too much text, so like there's like a lot of psychological
resistance there, a lot of thought reading.
>> So it's an essay.
>> Yeah. What about the headline? Remember the headline we talked about was like the feeling plus result.
>> So it's it's a thing, but it's not a result. So it's a thing. Okay. What's the outcome of it? It's not quite clear.
>> Yeah. Cool.
>> And then you've got what we teach. How to use Ableton, how to use samples.
Okay. Cool. Mhm.
>> But like what's the outcome going to be?
>> Mhm.
>> Right. And then you got your testimonials. Okay. It's just text.
There's no video.
>> So they're rich text, right? So people's [ __ ] meters go off.
>> Yeah. And anybody can type that too.
Like And like I can grab a picture off a website from some nerd looking dude just there with chess. Yeah.
>> And you know it could be fake. Um Yeah.
I just don't believe.
>> What do you think about the form?
I mean, >> well, firstly, where where is it >> at the bottom? Yeah, call to actions at the bottom. So, >> yeah, >> if I'm not convinced by then, how am I going to get to the bottom to know that there's even a something to do? And based on my feedback, people want to the thing that they want to do the most is actually inquire. They may not even want to read the rest of the stuff. So even if the ads or everything before they went on this landing page was convincing enough, >> even that [ __ ] text body of text could be
>> irrelevant anyway if you had the thing on top.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And then the next thing as well is like the call to action is just get in touch.
>> Yeah.
>> So it's very it's very generic call to action like we talked about the other day. You want to make it feel like they're starting a process. And then even from a design perspective, did we talk about we talked about fashion versus function, right? So fashion being like it looks pretty function or well this doesn't have any fashion or [ __ ] function. So the plain black background >> the the form says button at the bottom.
So there's a lot of like triggers going off like this landing page again does not switches. It will work to a degree just a [ __ ] terrible degree. Now what about this one?
>> Yeah. Straight away and like the background picture. Mhm.
>> You're talking to people. It's real.
It's It's harder to fake that, you know, >> it's in the moment and it's straight to it's attention. Electronic music producers. Okay. I'm an electronic music producer. It is for me, for example, if I was that >> and then a structured path to becoming label and tour ready as an electronic music producer. Right. It >> all right. I'm going to get a path out of this.
>> Label and tour ready. I want to be label and tour ready. That sounds great.
>> Yep. Some other things I point out as well, uh, the video. So, the VSSL, we'll we'll spend quite a lot of time today talking about scripting a VSSL for you.
It auto plays and everyone's web browser will autoplay with the video on mute.
And very few people bother clicking unmute, right? And so, we want to be able to just read along. So, we always burn in captions at the bottom. When I hover my mouse over it, kind of blocks it, but so they can at least just read along. The call to action above the form. Next step, get matched with your coach by answering a few questions.
That's significantly more appealing than simply get in touch.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Feel the process. Yeah. There's more social proof, >> right? So, most producers end industry set with no sound identity, inconsistent releases, and zero industry replies.
This is what changes. Like they get signed to all these labels that they can recognize. They get um you know, they're playing at these festivals. This is actually a really good example of linking the sales team and the marketing team because we added this because the sales team was telling me when I was running the ads for this, I still do.
They were saying, "Hey, like people enroll significantly faster when they find out, you know, what labels people would have been signed to or what festivals people would have been signed to." >> Yeah. And then having that question uh as part of the sales process is also important because then that's a feedback loop to optimize in your landing page.
>> Yeah, exactly like that. This bumped the conversion rate pretty significantly.
>> Um and that's an order example of like prioritizing the things that convince people, right?
>> So like we were talking about the other day, marketing is debating at scale and there's certain arguments that are significantly more compelling and you put the more compelling arguments at the top, right? So we placed this above the video testimonials because the feedback was >> this was got what got them over the line more so than this. This still helped.
The other thing as well is we can lower psychological resistance uh to watch the right testimonial. So what we do is because there's so many different testimonials here, right? Actually this is a perfect example. Um sometimes people ask me like hey how many testimonials is like too many testimonials. Wi-Fi's getting a little bit [ __ ] when I try to scroll down all the way, but >> that's a flex, >> right? Like, we have [ __ ] heaps. Um, Jackson actually ran a split test and he thought there were too many testimonials
and so he deleted all but the biggest four and it like cut the conversion rate in half. So, I was like, "All right, just put those back." So, it put them back, went back up again. Right. But you don't ever really see uh an influx of testimonials on on these landing pages because most of these they they don't put in the effort or they don't have any.
>> So how do you differentiate the difference between a good operator or a good business?
>> Yeah.
>> The other thing as well is no one is [ __ ] watching all of these. But merely the fact that you scroll through so many you're like, "Oh, Jesus Christ." All right, I get the point. They will watch one or two for sure. But the other thing as well is we want them to watch the most relevant one. So what we do is we put their not just their name but also what style of music that they make.
>> Yeah.
>> And then a key quote from the testimonial cuz we want again remember meet them where they're at. We want the customer to see themselves in one of these testimonials. Go, oh, I'm thinking that in this particular instance, what's most relevant is what style of music does this person make? Right? for industry sets for um for where you is what industry is is their business in.
So we put what style of music that they make as well as a key quote um from the testimonial so people can see oh I make that style of music and I'm thinking that because when there's so many different testimonials they will usually just pick like whoever's the first one or whoever they find the most attractive in the thumbnail or whoever they just look like the most. But that person might not necessarily be the the best person to watch. The best person to watch is like they make my style of
music and that they were experiencing the same challenges that I am right now before they enrolled.
>> Does it matter how long the testimonials are for?
>> Yeah. Um, well, the way that we edit them, I'll actually just play one of them. The way that we edit them is we take a key clip.
>> Yeah.
>> That might be like seven minutes in and we put it to the start. Oh, like a hook.
Yeah.
>> Yeah, just like this.
>> The amount of stuff I learned in six weeks, like I've grown more in six weeks than I have in the past 18 months. So, yeah, I think that's cut to the intro.
>> So, >> makes sense.
>> Yeah. Sick.
>> Yeah. And so, they go, "Oh, yeah." Like, that's compelling because you got to remember as well, we had to take into consideration people's just viewer retention. And so, if the first 15 seconds are, "My name's Brandon Willington. I'm doing this, this, and this." It's like, "Sure." or like but an emotional hook like that where like someone's nearly crying that's significantly more impactful than her show like her name her artist name and where she's from.
>> Yeah. And then what about at the top you have one like hero video not that one but the one straight underneath.
>> Yeah. What we did for industry set was because there are so many was we made this super cut.
>> Oh like a montage of all of them. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And I guess obviously with uh different businesses that are doing this, if they don't have enough yet, then that's okay. But that's their goal now is to build that collection of receipts.
>> Yeah. We'll talk about like what to do uh when you don't have testimonials. So there's a couple different things. So the ideal outcome that you want is a bunch of people saying that we're the best.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. The next best alternative is you saying you're the best. There's a couple of different ways that you can achieve that. There's none that are. I think there's some present on this landing page. So, further down this landing page, what we actually have is clips of Jackson. I think I'm into some of these videos as well, just presenting to um audiences. Alternatively, what you can do is Oh, I've got some more um on my landing page as well. Actually, if you scroll all the way to the bottom of my page,
>> so you got some podcasts um that you've embedded in there and your awards as well.
>> Yeah. So that's more about you, but your customers first.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah.
>> So I put customers first because people saying we're the best is significantly more impactful than me saying I'm the best. But what I'll do is like an about me section which is just a little bit about myself, like a bio. Um there's a photo of me there winning an award and then there's a couple podcasts that I'm on. If you haven't been on podcasts, like what I recommend people start doing is just publishing YouTube videos, just showing like that you know what you're doing and then just embedding those in the page because at least that demonstrates expertise when when you
don't have yet the opportunity for other people to say that you know what you're talking about. That makes sense.
>> Yeah.
>> Another thing that I'll talk about as well is what order do we place things?
The way to think about this is there's so many different like landing page templates that people will talk about like this landing page converts at [ __ ] 15% guaranteed. It's like it's not guaranteed. First of all, you had to consider the traffic. Second of all, you had to consider like what's the argument that you want to make. And so we want to prioritize what is the most compelling thing and what is the least compelling thing and then we order the landing page in that order. So things that are pretty much always going to stay consistent on
the landing page are a big headline at the top. VSSL, so video sales letter, which basically argues the point, your call to action. Now, this is pretty specific to us, but because we're an event, we put the dates here, right? Cuz that creates urgency. It also creates scarcity because I'll update I usually update like once a week. I'll just update and say like 24 spots left. I also put at the bottom like last updated was that 27th of March. Right. Yeah.
Now, one thing to consider also is the play rates on VSSLs are usually pretty low because generally speaking, the behavior of someone that's just clicked an ad on Instagram while they were doom scrolling is they'll quickly scan read this, they'll scan read this, they'll go not listening to this essay, and then they'll go, "All right, you want me to do this?" And then they'll just start scrolling around quickly trying to talk themselves into or out of doing this.
Right? And so, the first thing I have is urgency. So now you've established, oh, like I'm in Sydney and there's 10 spots left. That increases the likelihood of me converting a little bit more. The next thing is they're not watching all of this entirely generally speaking. So what I have is this section here which just explains in like one screen like basically like imagine like two PowerPoint presentation slides. If you had to explain how you do what you do in two presentations and what they get.
>> Yeah. what they get >> just at a macro level like how it works.
So I'll give you perfect example, right?
I added this section maybe two or 3 months ago.
>> Originally I didn't have the images. I just had basically this text here and it helped a little bit. Then I remembered psychological resistance and lowering their thought and how images can you know what is it? An image says a thousand words, right?
>> So then what I did was all I did was I added these images. So you could see there's a couple things being said in just this image alone. When you compare it with that it's like all right well this person is looking like at this person's laptop clearly helping them.
This person's smiling. They're happy with the support. It's in person. It's a workshop. You can see the size of that.
There's so many things that are communicated by this right. And then you look at this you can see it's a calendar on school. And this is another example of feedback from the sales team. Like we know from the sales team will just tell us, hey, when we show people there's like 40 or 50 [ __ ] calls a week instead of like one call on a Friday afternoon, >> you have a such a massive point of difference and and you're essentially making it easier to for them to to compare you to people who are far inferior, right?
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> Okay. And and with this as well, this will help you on the sales calls, right?
Because if they've read this, they're not going to ask a question.
>> Exactly. Right. So you want your marketing to support your sales process rather than just like generate leads.
And so if the stuff that we know at a macro level just helps the buying decision, just load it into the marketing. Yeah.
>> Right. So we'd ra because if it helps in the sales process will help in the marketing, right? Because all sales is is just one-on-one marketing and influence and persuasions. All marketing and advertising your landing pages and your ads is is influence and persuasion just at a massive scale, >> right? So, if it works for one or two people, it work for a lot of other people. Another thing is the FAQs. A lot of people, they really skimp out on their FAQs. They put like three or four really, really basic ones.
>> I've got one like I don't know, like two dozen here, >> right? And usually, another thing I'll talk about with FAQs is usually put people will put their FAQs all the way down like the bottom of their landing page.
>> I ran heaps of split tests with myself and also uh with our members. We pretty much 100% of the time increase someone's conversion rate by moving FAQs further up the landing page.
>> So before the testimonial.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. It was actually kind of funny cuz I told all my members to do this cuz I split tested with industry set. I split tested with my webinar funnel. But I was convinced that our testimonials were more compelling than the FAQs. And so I didn't actually split test until [ __ ] like last month. And I was right. I was like, for [ __ ] sake, I should have done this months ago. You mentioned split testing your landing page. How long do you give a yeah split test?
>> Yeah. So the technical answer is a statistically significant sample size of data. There's a formula to that. I don't know what the [ __ ] formula is, but what you can do is just screenshot the results. Put it into chat GPT and ask like, "Hey, is this statistically significant yet?" It will spit out the formula and tell you yes or no.
Generally speaking, in my experience, for something to be statistically significant, it takes [ __ ] forever.
Like, in some instances, it could potentially run for an infinite amount of time. So, my general rule of thumb is minimum one week. That's my real rule of thumb because like if you're spending $5 a day, well, over a week, that's like 35 bucks. That's [ __ ] all traffic, right?
So, in that instance, you're going to have to spend more. Like for example, like when I'm split testing something, I'll I'll still run it for like a full calendar week, but a calendar week for me is like $140,000 or something like that, right? So that's pretty [ __ ] significant.
>> Yeah.
>> Now, with the FAQs, the way that you want to think about FAQs is like four different quadrants. So there's the initial questions. So like something like how does it work? Like what kind of support do I get? Then you have follow-up questions. So when you answer these first ones like what are the questions that like come up afterwards like how quickly can I get results or like results and expectations would be like how quickly can I get results and then the fourth one is because I think we talked about this last week the fourth one is objections so like what if
I'm not techsavvy basically stuff they say at the end of the call right >> um because what we want to be able to do is on the landing page remember they're furiously scrolling around these get answered in the VSSL but there's no chance in hell I'm going to rely.
>> Yeah. You're you're essentially creating two different types of consumption. One is visual and one is written. Y >> but also both of them solve you the problem of time, clarity, and speed.
Yeah.
>> So with the uh with these ones here with the FAQs, have you tried adding in a video response as well?
>> Yeah, I actually put those on the thank you page. So on the thank you page, I'll go through our entire final.
>> So instead of instead of the FAQs here, they've got video. Yeah, there's like three videos there. Okay. Little breakout videos that explain like the most important things.
>> And then again on our landing page, got Google reviews that are embedded.
>> And then same thing like we've got their name, but the boldest thing when Aiden makes the thumbnails is like what industry that they >> were interested. Just go back for the Google stuff. Um, now I hate asking people for reviews. It's such a tedious thing, but I know it needs to be done, especially in an age of scraping AI legitimacy. What's your method of uh attracting uh incentivizing people to do do >> the the the first most important thing is the timing. So I learned this from
Peter Lakovich who taught me like most of what I know about sales. So you got to remember like during the customer journey they go through like waves of emotions and there's a couple like peaks of emotions and so you time your testimonials at the peak of emotion. So for example when a customer tells you that they've had a very very good experience don't ask them a week later.
Yeah.
>> Ask them then and there when they're at the peak of emotion. It's very similar to sales in of itself. Like they make a decision when at the peak of emotion.
>> Yeah. And what would you say to them in at the peak of emotion to to get that close?
>> Yeah. So, what you want to do is you want to actually like we lower psychological and physical resistance on landing pages. You want to lower physical and psychological resistance for them to do it. So, the message could be as simple as, "Hey, I'm glad to hear that you've um had a really good time or you've enjoyed the service. Um, we're trying to be more proactive about collecting Google reviews. If you have if you have 90 seconds spare, could you leave us a Google review?" And then, have you ever have you ever experienced this? You ask for a Google review, what do they ask first?
>> Yeah. What do you want me to say? Or worse, they don't even say that and they use [ __ ] AI.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, we want to lower psychological resistance because they're not going to ask like, "What do you want me to say?" It's like, "No [ __ ] I want you to say good things." But it's like you've just given them this little essay task. So, what you can do is you give them the prompts of like what I would say when I ask for the testimonials. Most people when they leave us a testimonial, they just like to uh let us know like who they are, why they came to us, what they loved the most, what got them over the line, what they were hesitant about, and like what changed from them.
>> And then they go, "Oh, yeah. I just answered that. I just answered that." That's a sentence. That's a sentence.
And so rather than like pretty much all of our testimonials, uh the same for like we try and get them to do the same for written, but obviously in a video testimony, you just ask them. The series of questions would be like introduce yourself, like the business, like what what situation were you in before you came to us.
>> Mhm. I got a list here.
>> Yeah. I use this all the time. It's really cool.
>> Oh yeah. Cuz should I share this with you?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I use this every every time.
>> Introduce yourself. What situation were you in before the workshop? What hesitations did you have before this workshop?
>> That's a really good one. The what hesitations did you have before coming to the workshop? Because it will repeat back to the person watching it. Oh, that's [ __ ] exactly what I'm thinking.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um what did you choose? Why did you choose to attend the workshop?
>> Yeah. Like what got you over the line in the end?
>> Or why did you choose to hire us? Uh hire our services above anyone else for anyone that's watching this. Um, what changed your thoughts after hiring us or booking the workshop?
>> What did you like the most about the workshop? Uh, what differences did you see from this workshop compared to others?
>> Uh, what impact did this workshop have on you? And what would you tell someone if they were nervous about booking a workshop?
>> Yeah. Because when they answer those questions, it actually tells a story of like meeting the customer where they're at, which is, oh, I'm experiencing this.
And then it it kind of tells this forecast and this story of like this is what you're going to experience if you work with these people and they can relate to that rather than alternatively what most people's reviews are are like yep I worked with seven did this two-day workshop and he was really friendly.
It's like that's not helpful for me.
>> No, but it's part of the the whole package.
>> Yeah, exactly. But we had to like we had to consider >> like I failed marketing 100 at university. What is is there four or five Ps of marketing? There's like five Ps of marketing. One of them is placement >> and you had to consider the placement for your testimonials and generally speaking the people most of the people that watching your testimonials are people that are like right on the fence and they're doing their due diligence and so we need to consider the placement. So saying that you're friendly for 2 days doesn't help my buying decision like I want to do this [ __ ] work for you. If you want to help building this out with us in
person, as well as getting us to hold your hand for six months afterwards, we give all of our landing page templates to our members as well as like multiple support calls um a day, helping them build out their landing pages as well as the ads and conversion tracking and all that stuff. We've got dates upcoming in both Australia and the United States.
So, if you'd like to save your seat for one of those workshops, there'll be some links in the description so you can check those out. So, the survey and the application form, there's a a few things that get done here, right? So firstly the call to action above the survey we've spoken about make it feel like they're starting a process. We don't start with contact details. We want to start further down towards curious and then we can slide them up to committed.
So my particular one is like where do most of your leads come from?
>> Everyone can see themselves in that.
Right.
>> Yeah. And I and I ask that question pretty much the first question I do in the sales calls is where do most your leads come from?
>> Y >> to identify if Yeah. they've plateaued or what's not working or to see if they've tried what I'm about to teach them already.
>> Yeah, exactly. So, Adriana when he was earlier in the program came to an advisory call with me and he's like, "Oh, my landing page isn't converting." And he [ __ ] he [ __ ] with my template, made contact details first.
>> Okay.
>> I was like, "Just leave him at the back where I put him, bro." He's like, "All right." >> And then what happened?
>> Well, I like quadrupled his conversion rate just by moving his contact details.
Question.
>> I love how that one thing.
>> Yeah, that's literally all it was.
>> And that's one variable, too. And uh oh just back to split testing for a second.
When you're split testing one variable, right?
>> Yeah. One thing.
>> One thing.
>> Yeah. So I usually I usually change one big thing.
>> Yeah.
>> Um usually it's something like it's usually the headline.
>> Yeah.
>> Sometimes I'll split test this. I might split test the background or I might split test the order in which I place things.
>> So those are the main ones. And the little things you don't really split test. You just check.
>> Yeah. It's pretty I don't think I've ever really split test stuff all the way down here.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Because you got to remember like 100% of people see this first section.
>> So that's the above fold.
>> Yeah. Above the fold. So it's the most impactful.
>> All right. Let's go back to that.
>> Cool. So with the survey, where do most of your leads come from? Uh what kind of business are you? This is a qualifying one. So we can only work with service based businesses needing leads.
>> What do you mean by qualifying?
>> So qualifying is there's certain types of customers you can work with. There's certain types of customers that you can't. So, for example, we don't help e-commerce businesses. We don't help SAS companies. We don't help like ticket sales. Like, you must be a service-based business.
>> What happens if they click e-commerce?
>> So, if they click e-commerce, SAS, or events, it takes them to a disqualification page. Now, this is actually a good segue to pixel conditioning. So, I'll talk about pixel
um later today, but I don't basically pixel the pixel will track like leads and schedules so that the ad account knows how to do its job better. What we want to avoid at all [ __ ] costs is your ad account thinking it got a lead when someone clicked the wrong answers.
>> Okay?
>> Because then otherwise it >> then you're wasting money. Well, because what it will do is like if we say anyone that completes this form as a lead, then it will just keep it will it will definitely keep finding service based businesses, but it will find all these [ __ ] dudes too, >> right? So, we don't want to think it did its job when it did it incorrectly.
>> So, so you're saying that if someone is sick of seeing your ads, >> Yep.
>> they just have to go to your landing page and disqualify themselves >> pretty much.
>> But, um, so we got what kind of business are you? Then I've got what kind of service do you provide? This is another qualifying question. So these ones down here, we just don't work with them.
Either because it doesn't work with them or I don't [ __ ] like them. Real estate agents.
>> So the So go back a previous one. What's the difference between uh what business are you and what service like and what type?
>> So what kind of um business are you?
Like this is a service based business and then this is like what industry basically.
>> Yeah. So you're pretty much categorized service based businesses.
>> It's like funning it down even more.
There's actually another question that's um >> this this average monthly revenue like this is just to kind of so the sales rep know like where they're at.
>> Okay.
>> All right. This one >> hang on go back one >> just to save time >> pre-revenue 0 to 10k monthly revenue statistically most people that are making less than 10 grand a month are not going to buy a workshop.
>> So what do you do then in terms of that?
I don't think that I I think I only disqualify pre-revenue. Okay.
>> Just based off feedback from the sales team, they pretty much never buy. So, I just don't let them take up time in the sales rep calendar. Okay.
>> Generally speaking, >> cool. This question, now this is a really good one. I have a few examples of this. So, this is what I call our red flag test. Now, there's very little original thought in marketing. This is 100% my [ __ ] idea. So, around what what's March now? Around like 15 months ago, I had a theory that I could predict someone's behavior based on their response to this question or just based on response to one question. The question was, "How do you typically approach learning and implementing
something new for your business?" So, there's, "I enjoy figuring things out even if it takes trial and error. I like having a clear plan, but no adjustments might need to be made along the way." Then there's, "I prefer solutions that are straightforward and don't require much problem solving, and I feel frustrated if results don't come quickly and might move on to something else." translate all of that to what's in your head.
>> So, what I was thinking was this is getting outside of marketing, but this is getting into like coaching and personal development. The way you do something is the way you do everything else. Let's say for example, okay, like our sales reps are a perfect example. I will only hire sales reps if they actively train a martial art because it means outside of work, they're disciplined, they work hard, their opinion of what hard work is is way higher than most people.
>> And martial arts is essence a trial and error.
>> Yeah. Right? And so if someone has this attitude to approaching something, learning something, learning something for their business, no [ __ ] they're going to be a problem. So all I did was for 3 months, everyone, it didn't matter what you selected, but everyone was allowed three. But for 3 months, I just measured it and internally in our CRM system, if they selected these bottom two, you added a little red flag emoji next to their name. And then me and Tim counted up everything. If someone
selected these bottom two, they had half the show rate and half the close rate.
>> Wow.
>> Of someone that selected these two. And then >> I talked about this on the whiteboard before. Whenever someone complained in the program, 100% of the time that >> 100% >> like literally 100% of the time.
>> It makes sense. That third point down uh the bottom there, I prefer solutions that are straightforward and don't require much problem solving. That's pretty much someone that wants it done for them. Y >> and then the bottom line is they chase something they want it turnkey instantly >> that and this is not for them pretty much.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> And then also like just knowing the numbers like if they have half the show rate and half the close rate. Well, their general attitude towards life is I can't be [ __ ] >> So of course they're the kind of person that like requests an appointment and then the time rolls around. I forgot about you [ __ ] [ __ ] Anyway, but then so if someone selects these two now, it just won't let them book a call.
>> Okay.
>> So, we have people that email us and say, "Oh, I thought you worked with electricians." And I pull them up and they're just like selected this one. I'm like, "Yeah, we do work with electricians, just not you." >> And what do they say to that?
>> They don't like it.
>> But like, if they really really plead their case, >> we will consider letting them in.
>> Nice.
>> But like we have three one-star Google reviews. cuz they're often people that got pissed off. They weren't let in.
>> How important is it to really have that authenticity with who you do and do not book?
>> [ __ ] critical.
>> Uh I wouldn't say critical, but like you you experience the impacts like >> months later. Like like we have a reputation for being [ __ ] hard to get into. And also, by the way, this wasn't intentional. Like we genu genuinely just want to make sure the people that get in get results. But then what happens is it kind of backfires cuz you get people that like we had someone like begging Brody. Oh, it was your mate. You referred someone in that was like 80%
e-commerce or something like that.
And then he was like, "N said I could do it. Like I'm qualified." And Brody's like, "I got to ask Brandon." >> Trying to remember who it was.
>> I can't later. But anyway, now this is a B2B example, right? This is pretty specific to me. This won't necessarily work for everyone, but um I've done this for industry set as well. So the thought process for I'll call this the red flag test is we want to think out what are the mindsets and behaviors of people that don't show up to calls, don't take action, and also just don't [ __ ] do anything in the program.
>> And then just trick them into answering the questions the way they normally would disqualify themselves.
>> Yep. And so industry sets one. We talked to the sales team and I said, "Hey, like who are the people that don't buy?" And they basically said, "It's people that were convinced they already make the most incredible music on earth and they just need to be signed to a [ __ ] label. They don't need help." And so our red flag test for industry set was which best describes where you're at in your music journey right now. A and B were variations of like I I'm good. Like I'm always looking to improve. And C and D were like, "I'm already good. just put
me on main stage in Tomorrowland, right? It's not going to work.
>> Cool. Uh that one website. I always like getting someone's website rather than like what do you do like plumber or something like that cuz you can work out from the website what they do?
>> And you can also um test their wallet because if they haven't put effort into making a website, what are the chances they're going to put in?
>> Yeah. Exactly. So, like another um it's not a red flag automation, but if someone puts like their Instagram bio or like a link tree, >> that happens all the time.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then it goes name, email, contact number.
>> What happens if they put the Instagram in there?
>> Um it will still let them book, but we might manually delete them. You can also do like conditional logic and stuff like that. One mistake most I see a lot of people make with their application forms is they get way too trigger happy with disqualifications from day one. Um, and what you want to avoid is creating a problem by trying to solve a problem that does not exist yet.
>> What I mean by that is you'll go, "Oh, I reckon I'm going to have a problem with this kind of lead." And then you put all these like disqualifications in place and it stops potentially qualified people from coming in.
>> Again, back to the split testing of that. How many in a row in a in a specific amount of time would you go, "Okay, that's actually a problem. I need to rectify it." probably like a financial quarter to be honest.
>> Okay, so financial quarter and let's say you get five 10 >> um enough well you do the math, right?
So you'd have to do the math and go okay so for example like the red flag test like I measured that we they had half the show rate and half the close rate of non- red flag leads. So I just did the math and I'm like all right so they're [ __ ] 75% less likely to buy. That's pretty significant.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. You just do math at the end of the day.
>> 100%. Um, another thing worth pointing out with um, application forms as well is and we spoke about this on the whiteboard is drop offs at different slides. So if you have a conversion rate issue, >> is there a way to measure that?
>> Yeah. So you got to analys most landing page builders have this like tight form has this as well. Higher level has it with their surveys. You'll be able to see conversion rates slide by slide.
>> Wow.
>> So you can see here >> like 4% 3% like what's the drop off rate? So then I can look at like, well, what's slide six? Because 27% of people are dropping off. It's the website, >> right? So people has gone easy multi- choice, easy multi- choice, easy multi- choice, easy multi- choice. I got to type [ __ ] now. Or maybe I don't have a website. I can't be [ __ ] >> Yeah. Well, that that that it's a good thing cuz if they don't have a website.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> And then there's like a little bit of drop off. A little bit of drop off. A little bit of drop off. Right.
>> Yeah. So that's pretty consistent. Now when you see that outlier, you have to kind of ask yourself, >> do I need this question?
>> Yeah.
>> But also for you in this case for the website or any service based business that is looking to work B2B.
>> Mhm.
>> That is something that's still important, right?
>> Yeah. I mean, I also have your website.
If you don't have one, that's fine. Just link us something we can take a look at.
>> And if they still don't put that in, then >> they didn't [ __ ] want in the first place. They just thought it was some kind of free quiz or something like that. Now, with your AB testing, your red flag uh experiments, and your realization that uh you're not here for everybody, and you purposely will not take everyone on.
>> Why do agencies mostly take everyone and anyone?
>> Just so they can [ __ ] make money.
>> Their office sucks.
>> Well, you're making more money than them.
>> I know, right? They're just like like agencies can work to be clear. They can.
It's just the instances where they do are like very far and few in between.
Like I think if an agency is like specialized on like one specific industry, I think it it can in most instances some instances work >> or one specific niche of marketing.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like where like just this style of marketing, right, for like just like online fitness coaches, right? And they've worked out the economics or something like that.
>> Cuz you're technically an agency, but you just do with you model.
>> Yeah. Correct.
>> And it's just ads. That's it. You don't like obviously there's a landing page, but that's part of the process. If you don't have a proper landing page, but you you've given them ads.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, where are the leads going to go?
>> Exactly. I was actually trying to I won't say her name, but I was trying to poach someone uh from her agency cuz she's really really good. And I was like, can I just offer you more [ __ ] money? And she's like, yeah, like she honestly her and I'm not going to say the agency either or her name. I don't want to get in trouble. But um she was like, "Yeah, I'm getting really sick of like not having control of the landing page or the ner sequences." >> Yeah. Cuz it cuz it um takes away her close rate.
>> Yeah. Because it's like it's oneird of the formula. You got clicks, conversions, and close.
>> Yeah. So why why do um these other agencies not have that connection with the entire process?
>> So [ __ ] [ __ ] >> That's it. That is the answer.
>> All right. So once they do that second uh that first step, sorry, it will then take them to a booking page if they say the right answers. If they say the wrong answers, it will then take them to a disqualified page and not send conversion data to um our ad account.
>> Now I noticed Yeah, I noticed that you got the the bar there, the progress bar.
>> Y >> does that matter?
>> Couple things. We're optimizing for the scheduling. So we don't want them to think that they are done. For example, there's there's nothing else on this landing page. There's like no testimonials, there's nothing else. It's very clear like, "Oh, I haven't finished yet." So, this says almost done. What you want to avoid is any language that closes the loop in their head. For example, congratulations, well done, or thank you. Don't put that there.
>> Okay?
>> You say last step, right? Book your traffic discovery session to speedrun your business growth. I've also, this is pretty specific to us, but I've just got no, we only allow bookings up to 5 days out. calendars fill up incredibly quickly from the sheer volume of applications. If you can't find a time, check back tomorrow when more spots should open up. Something like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Because you can see it's Monday right now. Monday and Tuesday are already booked out.
>> And you don't have more um slots available beyond the 4th of April. Why is that?
>> Yeah. So, the further someone the further out someone books, the less likely they are to show. So, generally speaking, we want them booking sooner.
However, there is an exception to that.
Tim, our head of sales, measured this.
If someone booked same day, that was an issue because I'm going to go through our nurtures in a bit, but there's a bunch of content we want to send them that we do send them to warm them up before the call. And so if they book, let's Okay, it's 9:00 a.m. Now, if someone books for 12:00 p.m. today in 3 hours time, they will not have enough time to consume all this information.
And then they'll get to the call and be like, "So, what do you guys do?" And they'll be like, "It was it wasn't in the emails you were sending because you didn't have time to [ __ ] listen." >> Yeah. You got to nurture them first.
>> So, generally speaking, we don't want them to be able to book same day. We like the next day.
>> So, you're assignment selling.
>> Yeah. I'll go through our nurtures.
Like, there's there's certain things we want them to consume.
>> But same same thing. I don't want them booking for the [ __ ] 29th of April >> cuz they'll forget by then something else will come up.
>> Yeah. Something else will come up. We've found like 5 days is kind of the sweet spot. Uh Freddy, who's in that room there, he wants to start taking calls on Saturday. Generally speaking, in our experience for B2B, the Saturday leads have like worst show rate, worst close rate, worst quality.
>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
>> So, weekends are no good. Too far out's no good. And too soon is no good, generally 5 days. What if I have a fear of missing out?
>> So, for example, uh if someone's not able to book this week, but they're genuinely wanting to book next week.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh I have a fear of missing out that they'll forget and I'll miss a quality lead. usually will just be like um well usually those people they'll just reach out to you and say hey I can't find a time.
>> Yeah. And do you make that possibility because you said some people that disqualify themselves they still are able to reach out?
>> Yeah. They'll still like they'll still like email and stuff cuz we'll have I got one last night like some lady emailed and said hey um it said I wasn't a good fit. I'm really keen though. Uh, and she was really polite. So I said, "Hey, just so you know, it was cuz you selected this." Um, which in our eyes is like a red flag. It's not a total ban, but here, have a chat with Courtney.
We'll make sure it's like actually a good fit.
>> Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Cool.
>> All right. And then the booking widget itself is pretty simple. It's just name, email, blah blah blah, all that stuff.
Now, on the thank you page, a lot of people skip out of the thank you page as well. So, I added one thing to our thank you page. It bumped us from 60% to 75%.
All it was was this message here. That's all I added. So, what it says is heads up before the call. As you probably would have experienced yourself in your own business, the most annoying customers you have were also the worst leads to deal with. If you're annoying during your application process with us either before the call or on it, we'll just delete your application and so we don't have to deal with you as a customer. Past behavior is a very good predictor of future behavior. We like helping business owners. That's why we've worked with so many good ones, but like you probably do also, we have a no
dicks policy. Now, there's a very specific order to this message. Now, I don't say don't no show to the call or we're going to cancel your future bookings because one, it's aimed language at the person so they feel like they're being attacked and two, it's selfish to you. So, if you think about what I'm what's going through their head as they're reading this, firstly, I point at an anonymous group of people that is not this person, I get them to
agree that they do not like this group of people. So, in their instances, hey, you've had customers in the past that were like annoying, weren't they? And didn't you also notice they were annoying during the sales process? You go, yeah, I agree to that. And then we say, yeah, like if you're annoying during our sales process, we won't let you in as a customer, right? Or during the we'll just delete your booking. and they go, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense." And then they have to align themselves with that identity which they agreed to, which is I'm not this group of annoying people that I do not like. Right? I will not be a [ __ ] Because we got them
to agree to that identity first >> and then the call to action is, hey, don't be a [ __ ] >> Yeah.
>> So that makes sense, right?
>> Yeah. That's good.
>> Now, something else.
>> Yeah. So, I put this on. So, this is another example of meeting the customer where they're at. So, I do this in the workshops selfishly all the time.
Usually the morning of day two when everyone's like setting up like 15 minutes before we really get started, I'll ask people like, "Hey, like what was going through your head when you were going through our sales process?" Just and then I'll just start adding [ __ ] to our marketing based off that.
And so about a year ago, people were saying, "Yeah, like I saw all the testimonials, but I was like thinking like how bad could this really be? Like how bad can you [ __ ] me on this deal, Brad?" M and so I did a loom where I went through all of our worst reviews from our internal workshops like the survey that that we send out at the end of day two and I went through people like this person gave us a four out of 10 like what did they have to say and it's like it's not like Brandon's a scam artist. It was like, "Yeah, I'm just not very good with [ __ ] computers." And there's like, "Look, these people gave us a five, but it's like, yeah, I kind
of struggle with the Wi-Fi or something like that, right?" Oh, these are those breakout videos that I was talking about. So, like the most common questions we get like, "What's covered in the two days? How much support will I get? How much time will I take?" Those are the three.
>> Excellent. And three is a good number.
>> Yep. Some people have more, some people have less. But >> is this to to provide um a quick like to avoid buyers remorse as well? This page >> that too. I mean, like what we're trying to do on this page is address skepticisms up front.
>> Y >> because remember, like when there's a lack of information, they'll just make up a story in their head and agree with it.
>> So, for example, like they're probably already thinking, do I have [ __ ] time for this? And then I have a video says like how much time will it take?
>> Or like I bet there's one call on a Friday and I'm like, no, there's like 40 like every week. There's more now. Yeah.
>> Right. Any questions about this page?
>> No. Can you go down to the bottom or just >> Yeah. Everything else is >> Oh, it's the same. Cool.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's pretty much a duplicate except the top is there. Now, do they get this immediately after they've booked a call and it loads up or do they get a link in an email?
>> No, it just goes directly to here says, "Well done, you're booked in." >> Great.
>> Yep. Oh, one more thing that I'll point out before we go to the nurture sequences is says like, "Watch the video below to see how we get results like the ones you can see further down the page." What we want to do is we always want to position our language unselfishly so it's a benefit to them. So I don't say watch the video below before the call.
It's watch the video below to see how we get results like the ones you can see it down the further down the page.
>> Love that.
>> Yeah.
>> Now all of the members in our with you program get access to our best performing landing page templates. What this prevents you needing to do is like start your landing page from scratch.
Drag and drop pre-built sections in.
Basically all you're doing is like you know those like coloring in with numbers books where it's like one is red, two is blue, three is green, all this stuff.
You just fill in your landing page templates. So most people can build their landing page templates in like an hour or two rather than having to start from scratch and taking a couple of weeks. If you want to start your application for the with you program, there'll be a link in the description.
Now that we've got the landing page walk through, I'll walk you through what our nurturers do so you can get an idea for when we start making yours. So the first one that they get is as soon as they start their application, regardless if they book a call or not, I know that the first thing that they're thinking is like, will this work for my specific industry? So, we send them testimonials based on what industry that they're in.
So, if they're in the education and coaching space, there's just conditions here. It sends them a bunch of education and coaching testimonials, right? If they're in the home services space, it sends them a bunch of home services testimonials. If they're in media and marketing, it sends them the most relevant one. That make sense?
>> Yep.
>> Cool. Then we have the call booking.
Now, what most people get wrong with their booking reminders is they just use the default [ __ ] calendarly testimonials, right? Which is, sorry, default calendarly reminders, which is like your call is booked for Thursday at 11:00 a.m. Like, don't forget to come.
Like, it's selfish. It's not exciting.
It doesn't provide any value. And so, what we want to do is we want to change the language of our confirmations. So they've booked the call because they are to a degree excited about the idea of what you do. And so our goal of the nurture sequences is to at a bare minimum maintain their levels of excitement but ideally increase it so that by the time they get to the call, like if you talk to my sales reps, they're like, "Yeah, most of our leads are like they're already ready to buy
because they've already discovered every piece of information that they otherwise would have had to wait for a sales call.
Right. And the other thing you had to consider as well is they booked the call because they want information. However, they might not get that information for a couple of days and they will either go into like research mode, find like not be able to find it, find the incorrect stuff. And so we just want to lower physical and psychological resistance for them getting information by just sending it to them. So when someone books a call with us, this is our entire [ __ ] workflow. And this is templated for your students in your with you program.
>> Yeah. It's got like the one day reminder, two-day reminder and stuff like that. The the actual obviously the contents is going to be different.
>> Oh, it has to be cuz it's an industry thing. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, first thing that happens is if they book an appointment, it checks like did we accidentally let through someone from like a red flag or an industry that we don't like working with? If we did, it just [ __ ] sends them to a wait list. It says unlucky. Right now, if they are qualified, the first thing that it does is it sends data to our pixel and says, "Hey, a schedule happened." Now, it doesn't happen when they're in the wrong industry cuz like we said before with pixel conditioning. We don't want the ad account to think that it did
its job when it sent a bad lead to our calendars, right? Then it will remove the prospect from a previous workflow which was trying to get them to book in.
It will confirm the appointment. It will remove them from some other workflows.
It will wait one minute, move them in the to the correct stage of the pipeline. It will add them to this hammer them strategy that I learned from Jeremy Haynes. So, I'll show you that in a moment, but basically all the pieces of information I want to know, I just [ __ ] send them to them all in like one day between like four different emails.
>> What if they come back to you and say, "I'm getting overwhelmed with emails.
This is not what >> That's actually another red flag. We don't let them in either." >> Why is that? because if they they should have booked a call because they want information. Most people appreciate it.
They're like, "Yeah, like this is everything that I wanted to know." The people that complain about some emails in their inbox are [ __ ] cowards that like literally they're complaining about like email. You sent too many emails.
Great. Well, what we actually say is, "Hey, look, if you don't like this level of communication, you're going to hate being in the program because we had to communicate with you a lot. I think it's best if you just pass on this one. We're good to pass on this one, too. We don't let them in because if they literally complain about some emails, it's like, what kind of person is that? It's just >> Yeah. You're sending them information that's valuable.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, like we have so many call recordings. We save them. By the way, if you ever like done a sales call and you're a [ __ ] just know that like the recording went in the sales team Slack channel. They'll be like, we had this one lady that got on a call with Tiffany or it might have been Tim.
And I think they've both had situations like this where they're like, "Hey, I just got some feedback for you." Like there were too many emails and then um you're like, "Yep, whatever." And like, "All right, cool. So, like, are you going to tell us about like what the program is and how it works?" Like, "Yeah, those were in the emails.
[ __ ] retards." Now, the confirmation SMS, there's a couple very subtle changes in language that I'm going to point out. So firstly, hey Sev, Brandon here. Can you hit me back with a yes to confirm your traffic discovery session from the day and the time? Now, one of the key things with your nurture sequences is you want to to the best of your ability get them to reply. Now, when they reply yes, it's very a very similar kind of influence
and persuasion tactic that we used on the thank you page. So, we got them to on the thank you page, we got them to agree to the identity that they like showing to calls. We're again repeating this by getting them to write out, "Yes, I'm going to show." Now, it doesn't work 100% of the time. This isn't like a 100% solid rule, but because they've said, "Yes, I'm coming." They are slightly ever so slightly more likely to come than if they had not said yes because they've verbally, well, they've in a written form said yes.
>> They don't want to be a hypocrite.
>> Exactly. Right. So, it's like identity consistency. I think that was from Robert Calini's book. Then a minute later, what it will say is, "By the way, what'll really help you?" So again, we changed the language from, "Hey, watch this video before the call," which is selfish to us. We position as helpful to them. "By the way, what'll really help you is giving this a watch before our sesh, just chuck it on during a lunch or something. Gives you a solid outline of how we help business owners generate more leads easier and faster without an
agency. Also saves you time the call asking, "So, what do you guys actually do?" because this video explains it all.
It takes on the thank you page. Hit me back here if you need. PS, just hit me back with a thumbs up emoji or something once you've watched it so I know you're all good. Another example of trying to get them to reply.
>> What if they don't reply? Yes, >> we just [ __ ] delete them.
>> So, does it uh does that void them manually or do you do you just go through >> sales team will just man monitor the leads? So, if someone's pretty active, I like swear this guy's on. But if someone is like not replying, they haven't said yes, they haven't done anything, we'll probably delete them and just make room for someone that will >> because statistically >> Yeah, the statistically they're just less likely to [ __ ] show. They're less likely to rock up or if they do rock up, they're like, "All right, so what do you guys do?" I can't. It was in the video, >> right?
>> The email. So you're booked in before the call. Similar, but obviously an email. So it's longer. So here's one thing I'd like you to do beforehand. If you haven't already watched the with you over video before, it'll explain a lot of the nuts and bolts of how we do.
We'll give you a chance to jot down some questions so we can go through together.
Most people just chop pop it on during lunch or something. Saves you time asking on the call. So, what do you actually do?
>> So, and that's an email.
>> Yeah, this is an email.
>> Now, I've gone through this so many times and people still ask me questions that I've answered on either the landing page or in the video. Uh obviously I am monitoring that now on the uh in the sales process in the nurture sequence >> uh before the sales call happens.
>> Uh with people that are watching this, what would you tell them if they're early in their early days, they don't have a an option of choice?
>> What do you mean?
>> Uh they don't have like the uh like they're looking for leads. They want to get anyone in at the moment. M >> um >> well yeah you start a little bit wider and then you can narrow things down. So start with like an open net, get really clear on like what are the behaviors that your ideal prospects have and then you can get narrow. Like we've gotten pretty narrow on our marketing who we even [ __ ] let in.
>> So based on what I know from you and how you operate, you're essentially figuring out what you do and don't like if you don't know that yet. And by the time you get to the sales call, you're trying to divorce them on the first date.
>> Yeah. You you want to So like setting expectations is like pretty much all of life. You're just trying to like manage people's expectations, right? And so I think I told the story in the whiteboard. So like when me and Tanisha first started dating, we just had a 2-year anniversary like last month or something like that. Me and Tim did an after action report for my last relationship. We're like, "All right, that didn't go [ __ ] great. What would we do differently next time?" And I was like, well, I'd probably just try and break up with him earlier, like rather than finding out like 9 or 12 months later that this is this ain't it.
>> Or in this case, you'd rather find that out now before starts and they're going to complain.
>> Yeah. I want to find out if you're a [ __ ] psycho now in the email nurture sequences and on the sales call, not when you're 4 months in the program asking for a refund because you didn't do what I [ __ ] told you to do.
>> Right. And so on minus Tanisha's first date, we like met her at a bar and I was like, "Hey, we didn't even order drinks yet." I was like, "Hey, so we're going to try and break up with each other tonight. I'm going to tell you all the worst things about me. I hope you expect you to do the same for yourself. If we find out that like we're not a good fit, we can still stay friends. I just rather find out tonight rather than like 6 months time. I'm sure you'd agree you you'd like the same for me." Does that sound fair enough?
>> It's like sales.
>> Yeah.
>> She was like, "Yeah, that sounds good." And so like in these nurture sequences, we're like setting expectations. So like the first one honestly is like you get so many [ __ ] emails from us. So if someone complains about communication, then great, don't join the [ __ ] program cuz there's like 50 calls a week you can come to. We're going to overcommunicate with you, right? So if they're complaining about that, that's a red flag. Let's just not let them in. If they say they're a real estate agent, you're probably a fogg just from the get- go. So, I don't think you should be allowed into any programs at all because you don't think advertising works and you keep putting [ __ ] billboards on
the back of buses cuz you think it's going to work for you. Smooth brain.
Yeah. I can if I had $800, I get my [ __ ] real estate agents license as well. Vlog.
Yeah. Now, back to the confirmation email. So, what we want to do is they've booked the call. Now, they're thinking again, we're gonna meet them where they're at. They're thinking, "What's this call? Is it just going to be a sales pitch? Like, what's in it for me?" Right? They're always asking, "What's in it for me?" And so I've got here's what's on the agenda. If you couldn't tell from our ads, we're super laid-back. No pushy sales tact tactics. This is just a chat to see if there's an opportunity to help you. I'll ask some questions before a current situation. And then this is another example of like giving them
homework without calling it homework cuz when I say homework, you don't like that, right? So think of some big goals you want to hit and then bring them to us. So at least I'm getting to think about that. Hit me with any and all questions you have along the way. If it's an absolute no-brainer, we can get started then and there if you really want to. We notoriously like getting quick runs in the board for our members.
If you need to chill or talk to someone, all good. Bring anyone. Oh, this is another big one, especially in B2B cuz people will say um like, "Yeah, this sounds good. I got to go talk to my business partner or something like that." So, we've got in an ideal world, try and bring uh anyone else involved in the business to the call. Saves you time later playing Messenger hour between you and them, right? So it's not like hey like just so I can like sell both of you both of you come to the call. It says yeah it just saves you getting your messenger.
>> Yeah I I did the same thing u in my wedding photography business. I'd have the the couple in the call now if they don't join the call.
>> Mhm.
>> And cuz this happens a lot >> if how do you get to know them early enough to go hey um are you the main decision maker in this and do you have anyone else to ask? It depends. Like I we don't have like a hard and fast rule that if the decision maker isn't there, we will just um end the call or reschedule it. Sometimes we'll do the call and just schedule a time either later that day or the next day to get both people on >> respectfully. They need to ask their
wife or let their wife know or ask their husband, whatever you say.
>> Usually it'll be something like yeah like when are you going to be able to chat with them? Is that today or tomorrow?
>> And you give that multi choice like today or tomorrow? Because if you leave open-ended and like when are you going to chat with them? So, oh, probably next week. It's like [ __ ] right? So, if you go you you slide them from curious to committed. So, it be like all right, cool. Like, easy. You going to be able to like chat with them today or tomorrow? Oh, probably when they get home tonight. Okay, cool. So, like you probably have some follow-up questions in the morning. Yeah, probably. All right, cool. Does it make sense for us all to hop on just for 5 minutes like 9:00 a.m. tomorrow >> or like or tomorrow? Like, yeah, that makes sense. Like, cool. Do you want to do morning or afternoon? 3 or 4. And
then you send the calendar invite. Yep.
And then what I also do, I haven't done sales in a while just to be completely clear, but what I was doing was you you can temperature check them as well. So we'll send them the Google calendar invite and say um hey like is there a calendar invite yeah there? And they like yep got it there. Yeah, just hit going on that just so like it's in your calendar. It's blocked out in mine as well. If they don't click going then that's a red flag.
Another thing you can do is if they ask for like information, you can lower physical and psychological resistance for them getting that information as well. Cuz usually what you do is when they ask for information, what do you do? You will send them an email, right?
>> Yeah, send them an email.
>> What I do is I just send them the links on Zoom so that when they um close the tab, it's right there in front of them.
Actually, this happened with um who you referred to me um who's um Awake Tours again.
>> Oh, Anita.
>> Anita. Yeah.
She spoke to you and then booked directly with me and then because she hadn't gone for sequences, yeah, that's fair enough. I was like, um, I just sent her a link on Zoom to our landing page. I was like, yeah, give this a watch and then open another tab, just Google where you Perth Google reviews and then I was like, yeah, just go all the information is there. And then like 15 minutes later, she text me saying, "Yeah, I'm ready to go." >> And she became a student.
>> Yeah.
>> Amazing. And how's her business going now?
>> Terrific.
It was already going well before it already.
>> Now it's going >> and then two days beforehand it will then SMS them. So, hey SE Brandon here.
Just about to check out your web and socials before our session 2 days. Let me know if there's any other info I should know before the call. So, this is another attempt to get them to reply.
Also get more context for the sales team as well. Here's a link to the video again. So, we try and get them to watch the video again. Then a day beforehand.
Looking forward to catching up for our session tomorrow at day and time.
Zooming. I got a little bit lazy on this one. And then email. We send them the Zoom link again because we want them to join from their laptop. And then we SMS them. See you on Zoom in an hour.
>> Amazing. Any questions about this?
>> Uh, no.
>> Cool. I'll show you the hammer them strategy as well.
>> Oh, actually one more thing. When they do get a notification u that's saying, "Hey, see you in an hour." And they go, "Oh, I need to reschedule." >> Mhm. in it after that you reminded them in an automated one hour.
>> Yeah, >> red flag.
>> Yeah, it's kind of a red flag. Um, we kind of gauge it based on how responsive they were in the leadup. So, let's say for example they were like minimally, if not not responsive at all in the leadup to that, we just take them as a vlog and then what we'll probably do is just delete the booking and then see if they follow us up.
>> Yep. So if they follow us up then we'll probably do it again or just do it off of their own accord. We probably won't want to take up the space of someone else if they're like really like I think people have figured out we're not [ __ ] [ __ ] now. Um some people will like [ __ ] beg and apologize. But there's also an ongoing like joke in the sales team that like the likelihood that a [ __ ] friend or a family member dies the week that you book a call and you had to attend their funeral just quadruples.
>> And also the kids getting sick. Yeah, the kid got [ __ ] sick. Yeah, well, you'll be able to afford better [ __ ] health care if you come to the program.
>> So, this is a separate workflow from the call booking. So, once they book a call, we pretty much like hammer them with like what are all the things that are going through their head. So, we send them one, two, three, four emails in the 24 hours after they book a call. And so, the first thing we send them is our worst reviews. And so we that's that video that I showed you before, right?
Because I know that's going through their head. Now when I say four emails in a day, knee-jerk reaction is like that's quite a lot, right? But when you look at the statistics, 58% of people open this and nine nearly 9% of people click this. Like those are very very high statistics for like email marketing. It's usually like 20 and one.
>> Can you do all of this within go high level?
>> Yeah, we just do high level.
>> No wonder you're the most like affiliated.
>> Yeah. Where's that trophy I got that I didn't know about?
Uh, and then 3 hours after that, it will send them a bunch of podcasts of me.
Now, little trick. I only just learned this last year with high level. So, what we used to do was these used to all be separate emails.
>> Found out in high level, if you just take the subject from the first email >> and then put capital R, capital E colon in front of it, it will just reply as a thread. So rather than there being four separate emails.
>> Oh >> yeah, it's >> Oh, that's cool. And and then also what about uh landing in the spam in the junk folder? How do we avoid that?
>> A couple things. That's more of a Chris question than me. Um there's there's different tools out there you can use like email spam checker.
>> Like you can copy and paste your emails into there and it will flag like what words trigger spam filters. Yeah.
>> And Okay, cool.
>> That's one. There's some other stuff you can do on the tech side of things that admittedly Chris always has to do this.
I don't [ __ ] know. There's like some text records and stuff you can add to your email domain to increase deliverability. Um, but generally speaking, it's just like reputation.
Like if you just don't don't spam people and you won't go to their spam. It's like it's pretty like >> I was just thinking that someone would say isn't sending someone four emails in one day spam.
>> Yeah. If they start like reporting it for spam absolutely you get a bad reputation. That's why that's why I don't do it to like cold leads, right?
Like these people that booked calls.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. They want that information and the open rates and the link clickthrough rates like indicate that.
>> And then cold leads, you even do anything with them. They don't book a call.
>> Um I don't you should I'm just [ __ ] lazy.
Like I've >> Well, for the for the for the beginners forg um like generally speaking. Okay, I'll tell you what I'm going to build. What I'm going to build is now that me and Aiden have like populated our YouTube with like plenty of different content, I'm just going to send them like an email a week, just goes to a different YouTube video.
>> Yeah. That's good. And then for the people that who are beginners who aren't getting a [ __ ] ton of leads like you are yet, >> they'd be wanting to look at the colder leads that didn't book a call.
>> Yeah.
>> Sooner to be able to do something with them. One thing you can do as well, I used to do this, is just [ __ ] email them and ask, "Hey, I've been trying really hard to get you to book a call.
Can you just tell me what?" I do this with your leads. I called them. Right?
So, if you got people's phone numbers and they've been in an inertion sequence trying to get them to book a call, honestly, just like pick up the phone and call them and ask, they'll tell you.
Like, I did this with your leads when they went booking like a funnel like two years ago or something like that. I just called them and all I did was said, "Hey, Brandon here. Um, you clicked my mate's ad a couple weeks ago about like content creation. Um, don't worry. I'm not trying to sell you anything. I just run the marketing and run his ads. Um, I'm trying to work out why the people that don't book calls aren't booking calls. Can you just tell me what's going through your head and then I'll try and book them in >> and then you sold them?" >> Yeah. Um, but yeah, you can see the open
rates, right? So, like another thing is like most people only see me for like 45 seconds at a time swearing at them on Instagram. And so I generally get feedback that if someone like consumed podcast of me, they're like, "Oh, Brandon's actually a nice guy." Right.
And then um and then another 6 hours later, they'll send them some like email YouTube videos. What's the open rates on this one? 59. Yeah. Even like 12% on this one.
>> 6 hours later like they're wondering like what are the advisory calls like?
So examples of that.
>> Yeah. And so like all the main way you want to think about your inertia sequences particularly the call booking reminders is what is going through their head right now. What what's going through their head is I'm curious but skeptical. I don't know the fine details. I don't really know who this person is. I don't know like like what the program is or what this call is going to be about. Like is this another scam? You just want to think like what are all the things that are going through their head and then you just address them head on. Even the negative things. For example, for me, like, yeah,
you're probably wondering like those testimonials are great, but like how [ __ ] can this get? Like, what is worst case scenario to set reasonable expectations?
>> Yeah.
>> Make sense?
>> Y.
>> Now that we've seen some good examples of landing pages, we need to build out Sev's funnel. So, we're going to do that click by click now. So, I'm going to build Sev's funnel from scratch. Now, often people will like massively overthink this task. They think they had to build it from absolute scratch. I'm going to show you the exact process I do to speedrun a lot of this stuff. Now, from high level, you go sites, funnels, and go new funnel. Now, it has some templates. Honestly, I never [ __ ] use them. What I like doing instead is using their pre-built section. So, we're going
to start from blank. So, I'm just going to call it um sees call funnel. If you don't have high level, I'd certainly follow along with the structure. Having high level will let you use the same pre-built sections that I'm about to use. But um the thing that I always talk about with landing pages and what software you use is I really don't care what software you use as long as the fashion and the function is correct. So whether you build it in Squarespace or Web Flowy or WordPress or high level, it doesn't matter as long as you follow the
principles for physical and psychological resistance and the layout looks close enough. Add a new step. Now we're going to call this one step one application. We're just going to make it apply. Create funnel. Now, we're going to start this from blank. Now, what a lot of um people get to is they look at this blank page and go, "Ah, [ __ ] Where do I start?" Now, I love this pre-built sections down here because you can just scroll through these and go, "How can I
adapt this?" Now, the thing that's pretty much always going to be the same is this section here. I pretty much always use this one here.
So, gives you an opportunity to put your logo there. Gives you opportunity to put your email there.
Attention, target audience, your headline, your sub headline. You would embed your VSSL there. Now, the one thing that I change here is I don't want to click a button to then go to another page and start an application or click a button and open a popup. So in place of this I always just put a survey just like that and we'll create the survey in a bit. Now what we do is the
order of uh sections on your landing page will vary a little bit. Generally speaking, after the call to action, like the survey, uh I generally like putting testimonials next because the the train of thought for someone that's like browsing on your landing page is going to be like, "Here's the big idea." Not listening to that essay. Do you want me to do this? Am I a guinea pig? Because remember, they're trying to talk themselves into or out of doing the thing that you want them to do. So,
let's go back to the previous sections.
Testimonials.
Now I want video testimonials. So we're going to drag and drop that in. Great testimonials. What others are saying?
Now this is already, by the way, if you look at ours already looking very, very similar. So testimonials come down here.
I've added this section up here. I'll talk about that later. FAQs are also very, very important. Now, I just don't like these things. So I like deleting them. these five stars things in my opinion people just think they're [ __ ] So I just like doing that and then what I'll do like I'm kind of a little bit of a wizard these things now so I'll delete that. Easiest way to work in higher level is just like duplicating existing sections just like that. Then
what we would do is generally after testimonials is FAQs. Now, caveat to this, I have been running some split tests for the last year that have um usually indicated that FAQs um can perform better positioned higher up on the landing page. However, I I haven't been able to measure this, but this is just my opinion and my hypothesis at the moment. I suspect it's because when you
go to our landing page, there's [ __ ] so many testimonials that like most people just don't get to the bottom of the testimonials. And so for them to actually be able to scroll all the way down to the FAQs, like if they down here, like most people just don't reach down here. And so for them to get to the FA, like I'm still [ __ ] not at the bottom of the page.
Yeah, I used to have FAQs down here. So a lot of people wouldn't reach that far.
So, I moved them further up on the landing page here and measured it. This seemed to work better for us. But again, you always want to split test everything. Don't want to be right, just want to get rich. Now, with the FAQs, um, a lot of people will often really skimp out on their FAQs. So, you want to think of your FAQs in four different sections. So, there's the first section, which is initial questions. So when you first tell someone about your business,
what are the first questions that they ask? Then you have follow-up questions.
So follow-up questions are when you answer those first sets of questions, what do they ask a follow-up question?
I'll give you an example. So if the initial question is what kind of support do I get in the WY program and we talk about advisory calls, the second question might be how many advisory calls are there a week? Like how many other people are on that advisory call?
What time are the advisory calls? Now the third section for your FAQs would be expectations. Now expectations is kind of split into two different categories.
So you got results and time. What kind of result can I get? And then also in what time frame or other variables of time as well. So for example, how much time will this take me? How much time do I need to commit to this program? Things of that nature. Then you have objections. This is the last and the fourth quadrant. So objections are simply stuff that they say on the sales call to delay or not enroll. And the I think I mentioned this with Sev when we were talking in the whiteboard as well.
You want to think and remember that if someone brought up an objection at the end of a sales call, it probably wasn't the first time that they thought about it. And the way that I learned sales from Peter Lakovich, who in my opinion is the [ __ ] goat, he always wanted to prevent objections happening, not having to overcome them, right? So you don't want to get to the end of the sales call and have to go through [ __ ] 12, 13, 14, 15 different objections. I'd rather just them know the answers to all these objections first. So you only had to
deal with one or two, ideally [ __ ] none, right? And so we'd update these FAQs with as many as we can. like four is way too little. Like if you look at ours, we have they don't even fit in one page scroll. It's like nearly I looks like it's 20 or something like that.
Right now, there's other sections that I also quite like as well. So, if we go to pre-built sections, um the other one that I really like is this for who. Now, I think I've used this in the past. I delete this get instant access thing like who this who this is perfect for.
And then you because that's another thing that also comes up a lot. Um, and this is again specific to us, but people are always trying to look at your offer and go, "Sure, I see this works for other people, but will this work for me?" And so, without going down a philosophical tangent again, people are always kind of floating through life.
Um, and the main the main thing that they always kind of struggle with is identity and assuming their ident and their identity is unique to other people. And so they're always trying to confirm that their identity is in the right place or in the right community.
And so when they see ah like this is for like trainers, they go, okay, cool.
Those those are my people. Like that's my tribe. When you don't address that, they're more likely to go, no, this doesn't look like it's for me. And so this is a perfect section to add in so they can see, ah, yes, I'm an electrician. It says it works for electricians. Because, and I know this based off experience as well, like I would run webinars. I'd have like 400 people on the webinar and at the end I'd take questions. I swear to God 85 to
90% of the questions are, "Does this work for insert my business?" That's all they [ __ ] wanted to know. Question that comes up a lot as well is like, should I put the price of the offer on my landing page? Now, this is where the art versus science thing comes in.
again. Um, I see people in the US typically do this a lot. I was always taught by Pete, uh, price is a sales conversation and we only want to reveal price once the value of the program has been established. Now, the landing page can do to a degree a good job of negotiating um, communicating that value. However, especially for high ticket products, the
value very much is not in the offer itself. The value is in to what degree does this move this person away from pain and towards pleasure. And that often is only achieved through a conversation. So, a a qualified salesperson, well-trained salesperson, asking them the right questions such as, you know, what's revenue at right now?
Where do you want revenue to be instead?
What have you tried in the past to try and achieve that? Establishing that as a dollar figure, and they're going, okay, well, this neatly fits into that, right?
People often won't come to those conclusions themselves. Your really hot audiences will. That's why it will work to a degree, but as you go to colder audiences, generally speaking, it won't work as effectively. So, I generally avoid putting um price on the landing page. Um you can prevent price objections or at least make sure the right people are coming through um by alluding to price like in your ad copy on your landing pages as well.
Helps people um like come to a conclusion like this is probably going to cost about this much. Another section that I quite like to use as well is this team one down here. I actually use the because the main thing that people are skeptical of is frankly me as a [ __ ] person.
So I use this one. I use this quite a lot. Meet the founder and CEO. Nice photo of you. Like any awards and stuff like that. You'll notice that on my landing page down all the way down here.
So me photo of me getting an award. Some different awards that I've gotten. a little bit of a [ __ ] joke. Then I've also got a bunch of podcasts and things that I've been on so people can say, "All right, he seems like he's legit enough to at least be a guest on podcasts. He's not totally [ __ ] anonymous." If you don't have podcasts, what you can do is like what what you want to try and achieve here, it's like outcome based thinking. So again, like follow my principle, like meet them where they're at. If they're down, if they've made it all the way down here and they're reading the about me
section, what is going through their head is who is this person? Does he actually know what he's talking about or is this just some guy that's like built this landing page and he's going to [ __ ] evaporate as soon as my card [ __ ] runs on Stripe? Right? And so I put testimonials here. One thing you can do instead, which I often suggest that people do, is if you don't have like podcast or anything like that, simply embedding some like long form YouTube videos that you've recorded and putting them there so they can click through them and go, "All right, this guy seems to know what he's talking about." If you
don't have long form YouTube videos, start filming them. If you don't have them, you just can't [ __ ] use them.
The other thing as well is like you're always constantly going to be adding to this landing page. Remember, it's dials, not switches. Everything will work to a degree. If if you just delete this section of the landing page, it will still work probably just ever so slightly less than if it was there. So, you work with the materials that you have. Cool. So, now this is the like bread and butter kind of um my default starting template uh when it comes to a two-step callunnel. Uh and the key word there is starting template. As you get more feedback from the sales team, you
get more feedback from speaking to prospects, you'll start to learn like what things are more important and if things are getting them over the line in the sales process, you want to try and get them over the line. Um, you want to communicate that in the marketing, right? So, we go through and we'll fill that out. We'll show you the final product. Now, what we want to do is add the second step, which is the step two booking page. Now, I'm going to start this from blank as well. Now, with the
booking page, we only we want to make it very clear there's only one thing they should do, and it is book in on this calendar. So, I'm actually just going to use another pre-built section. I'm going to use the welcome. I'm going to drag and drop this one in. Drag and drop this one in. Delete that. Delete that.
Delete that.
Cool. Now, some key things with the um booking page. What you want to avoid is any language that closes the loop in the user's head. So, examples of that would be phrases like thank you, uh well done, congratulations.
Um anything like that, you want to make it very clear like you are not done.
There is still [ __ ] to do. So, for example, I've got up here like last step, not next step or congratulations because again, like physical versus psychological resistance. There's a bunch of people that are just going to scan read that go up, done, and then close it. Yeah. Perfect example.
Actually, we had this client that um this is years ago back when we were done for you agency. They were a two-step funnel. I think they had a lead magnet on the first page and people would submit the lead magnet opt-in form and then on the form while the second page was loading it would just say thank you for your submission and then it would take a second and a half for the second page to start loading. All it took was 1 and 1/2 seconds for people to say ah
thank you. You're done to close the tab and go back and then not even reach the second page. So we had to change the message to say um we had to message the developer to change it for us and say um please wait and then people would like okay and wait a second or a half for the second page is like and then it would say again like last step blah blah blah blah blah. The other feature that I really like here is this progress bar.
So I think that is is it pre-built sections progress bar. This one here I really like this one. Right. So it's like almost done, right? So not progressing. I go almost done, right? And then we just go last step.
Book your traffic discovery session to speedrun your growth. Right? Make the font a little bit smaller. Something like that. Might move this up here.
Say nearly done. Something like that.
For SE specifically, I might say content discovery session.
Um, I have this little note down here that says, "Note, we only allow bookings up to five days out." And our calendars fill up incredibly quickly from the sheer volume of applications. If you can't find a time, check back tomorrow when more spots should open up. Um, we just found if we got booked out, people were like emailing us and asking like, "Hey, like I can't book in a [ __ ] time." And so we just put that there. We found it helped. Not necessary in this particular instance though. And then we add in the calendar there. And we can go to the calendar builder. Now, my little
hack for speed running to build the thank you page is just [ __ ] duplicate the application page. I just copy that, that, that, that. The reason we do that is because pretty much everything on this page except for the top half is going to be the same. Thank you. So, all we're changing now is they probably didn't watch the VSSL on that first page because again, they kind of scan read through the page. They see the video,
they might watch 30 seconds of it and just go not listen to that [ __ ] essay. And so, what we want to do is now that they've expressed more commitment, now is a perfect time to try and get them to watch this VSSL because they have booked the call because they want information. However, they may not receive that information for another couple of days, however long it has been out and since they booked that call. And so, what we try and do now is get them to book, sorry, get them to watch the VSSL. So, what I say on my thank you
page with the I think it's called thank you, yeah, it says well done. You're booked in.
Watch the video below to see how we get results like the ones you see further down the page. So, just like that. Might not make that bold. Might not make that itallic. probably make it white. Scroll that just a little bit smaller. Just delete that.
Delete that. Delete that. So, the video will still be there. We can delete the survey because I've already done that.
And we'll build the survey in a moment.
But now, again, we've still got all the same testimonials underneath there. We don't have to rebuild them from scratch.
Now, one really cool feature which I it took me way too many years to find when it comes to um using higher level is if you click this save button here, you have different templates. So, the problem I had was let's say I have the testimonials on the opt-in page and the thank you page. What I was doing in the past was updating the opt-in page and then updating the thank you page separately. So, I essentially had to update two pages and then if I had
testimonials on like other funnels like a webinar or something like that, it would um I'd had to update those ones as well. And then high level dropped universal sections. So, if you if I saved this as se testimonials all save that as a universal section, it will save it. And then whenever I use this universal section on any other
funnels, any other landing pages, um it will and I update one of them, it will update all of them. [ __ ] such a lifesaver. Um some other things I'll point out as well. I added this sentence to our uh thank you page and it bumped us from a 60% show rate to a nearly 75% show rate. Now I'll read it. It says, "Heads up before the call.
As you probably would have experienced yourself in your own business, the most annoying customers you have were also the worst leads to deal with. If you're annoying during your application process, whe it's either before the call or on it, we'll just delete your application so you don't have to deal with us. We don't have to deal with you as a customer. Past behavior is a very good predictor of future behavior. We like helping business owners. It's why we've worked with so many good ones. But like you probably do also, we have a no [ __ ] policy that bumped our show
rate from 60% to 70 I think 4% 73 and a half% something like that. It was the only thing that I changed in the funnel.
Now there's a couple things I want to highlight here and I'll explain how to adopt this to your industry as well. So there's a YouTuber I recommend you follow him as well called Chase Hughes.
So all he posts about is like human influence and how the brain works and psychology and things like that. used to work for the CIA. But when someone says they used to work for the CIA, it's like come on, bro. I'm not going to stitch on you. Um, identity is one of the strongest levers that you can pull when it comes to uh influence. And the example that he often uses is from Robert Calaldini's book, Influence. And there's a case study in there where, okay, so the first
test they did was they went to random houses and said, "Hey, can you put this big ugly sign on your front lawn that says um be a safe driver?" And most people said, "No, it's a big ugly sign." Then what they did was they went to a a second like neighborhood and all they did was the about a week before that person came with a sign, they got someone with a petition to come round and say, "Hey, can you sign this
petition to show that you support safe driving?" And pretty much everyone signed it. And then the next week, someone came around and said, "Hey, can you put this big ugly sign on your front lawn that says you support safe driving?" And I think, and this might be incorrect, but it's directionally accurate. I think like 85% of people agreed to do it when previously like almost no people agreed to do it. And so all they did there was they got someone to agree to an identity first and then
asked them to do something. So that's you're going to hopefully notice it now in this language. So what I said is heads up before the call. As you probably would have experienced yourself in your own business, the most annoying customers you have also the worst leads to deal with. That is a statement that most business owners will agree with.
And they identify like, yeah, I don't like annoying customers. Now they have this identity and they've agreed to it.
Then I say, if you're annoying during your application process with us, we'll just delete your application so we don't have to deal with you as a customer.
Past behavior is very good predictor of future behavior. We like helping business owners. That's why I've worked with so many good ones. And then again leveraging this identity that they've at least in their own mind agreed with said but like you probably do also we have a no [ __ ] policy. And so because they've agreed up here like yeah I don't like [ __ ] They now have to remain consistent with that identity that they've agreed with which is yeah I'm not a [ __ ] And that bumped our show rate from 60% to nearly 75%.
Everything else is pretty much consistent like we have the VSSL there.
Um testimonials all down there. some other things that I've added down here as well. I'll loop back. So, how can we adopt this for your business specifically? Now, the one that I did for industry set which helped was you want to tailor this messaging and the identity they agree with to something that they can relate to. So, this this one's easy because it's like, yeah, you're a business owner. We're a business owner or I'm a business owner.
um you don't like [ __ ] people that are annoying during the um sales process, right? With industry set because it's for electronic music producers, they can't say like, "Hey, you've probably had clients in the past." They can't relate to it, right?
So what we did for industry set was we said um we use the example of um people that you give tickets to your show, free tickets to your shows to and they don't show up and they're just like that lazy friend that always asks for tickets to the show but never actually comes. And so theirs is something to the effect of, hey, you've probably had friends in the past that you've given gigs to um tickets to your gigs to for free and they always ask for the tickets, but they never actually rock up and it takes
up the spaces of like your actual friends that would actually rock up to your gigs. Like we treat this application very much the same. Like if you um if we're we're giving you this ticket and you just like no show or something like that, like we're not going to give you a ticket again, right?
Because past behavior is really good indicator of future behavior. And so that's how we adopted it um for them specifically. Hopefully that gives you an example of like how you can tailor this to your specific industry.
Essentially all you had to do is get them to agree to an identity they can relate to in the context in which you they live in their world. Right? So with you it's B2B. So we talk about their customers industry sets about music producers. So we talk about like giving tickets to their gigs. um if you're a onestep funnel, so someone that um is not using like call bookings, um you can also do something pretty effectively the same with a thank you page. Now, what I'll talk about now is the survey and
what questions we should put on it. So, what I'm talking about specifically, this little section here. So, this survey. So, firstly, before we even build that, what I want to talk about is the call to action above it. because we've had countless examples where all we did was change this little bit of text above the survey and it like doubled people's conversion rates. So what it would look like is if we have this we have sub headline just drag and
drop that might be something like neck step. Now, what a lot of people do is they'll just do start your application, right? Really poor one. Or they'll go like contact us. It's very far down the It's a little bit too far down the committer scale.
Again, it will work to a degree, but it will just be reflected by a poorer conversion rate. What you want to do is make it feel like they're starting an application. Like a really good one is like next step answer a few questions to tailor your content strategy right feels like I'm starting a process with sees program here it's like okay like these questions are going to tailor this my content strategy feels like I'm starting
something right now with the survey let's go and build this so in high level you've got forms and you've got surveys we actually to be honest we use a form for industry set. We just ran a split test and for us specifically like this just worked out for us. So a form is like everything's just kind of laid out like that. Um a survey is it's slide by slide, right? So for example, if you look at ours, you click one, it goes to the next one. It's question by question.
Um I think this works well for industry set because like generally speaking like we've noticed this audience has like a way lower attention span and so they don't want to do all these little [ __ ] quizzes and [ __ ] like that. But again, that kind of backs up what I was saying before, like you always want to test everything. You don't want to assume you're right all the time. Um, but going back to the survey, the key thing is this first question. Do [ __ ] not make your first question contact details. It's too far down the committed
end of the spectrum. We need to like work them up to that with micro commitments. So, this first question, honestly, I don't [ __ ] use it. I'm pretty sure. Oh, do I? No, that wasn't the first question. I don't [ __ ] use this question. It's just utilizing the meet them where they're at principle so that they can like read one of these and go, "Oh, that's me or this one's me or this one's me." Right? And so my favorite like first question is meet
them um which best describes you. Now a little uh tactical tip when it comes to high level, I always use this radio select thing. There is a um check box, but what it means you have to do is you had to like press that and then click next. With radio select, it just automatically loads the next question.
So go radio select and we go which best describes you and then you simply list like four towards or away from motivators. So, for Sev specifically, it might be like, um, I hate being on camera filming content.
I'm heavily reliant on ad spend, relying on word of mouth for leads. I want to build more credibility in my industry. Right.
That could be a good one. Make it additional info. Hit save.
That will go under additional info which best describes you. Move that in there. Right. Make it required. Then what we would do is now we can do qualifying questions. So a qualifying question could be industry, it could be budget. So what we could do for Sev was his qualifications were they had to be a service-based business. So it would be um what type of business are
you service based needing leads e-commerce direct sales on website hospitality or events they go like SAS apps additional info right so now we're going to let free service based right so we can drag and drop that one we make it require required and then with the
options we can disqualify certain ones.
Open conditional logic disqualify leads.
Ah yeah they've moved it there. So if they go what type of business are you and it's equal to e-commerce then we can disqualify after they submit right we can show a custom message there now. So we can add in a disqualification message that says sorry we don't work with e-commerce businesses. Little bit of a caveat to that one actually in my experience. I suppose it depends on like the business but we had this problem where if this happened with industry set a lot if someone reached a
disqualification page and said oh it looks like we can't work with you. Some of them would just get impatient and just want to find a way to get in. And so what they would often do is just go back to the first page and just try it again and try to find the right answers.
And then they'll literally just [ __ ] lie and just say like it still happens to us now. Like we had someone come through and then got to a sales call and Brody was like, "Yeah, they just [ __ ] lied. They're e-commerce. They just selected service to try and get on the call and like well now they're just taking up space in [ __ ] Brody's calendar." Um, so usually what we try and do is we'll send them to a disqualification page that kind of makes it feel like they got through but not really.
So, it will say something like, "Thanks.
We've received your application.
Um, we'll be in touch." I think what we do for with you now, oh yeah, that's right. We send them to a disqualification page. It says, "It doesn't look like we're a good fit for these specific reasons." Um, but, um, and then there's a button underneath it that says, "Fuck it. I want to try anyway." And it will just send them to a landing page to buy with you on demand, which is just the workshop recordings.
And then just every now and then someone be like, "Fuck it. I just want to try it." And then they'll just buy the workshop recordings, which helps liquidate some of the ad spend. Another thing we've done, and I haven't talked about this, is on that thank you page, it says, "If you are adamant this is a mistake and this is a good fit for you, email weight.com.au." And then I set up an email called weightlist whereyou.com.au.
And then I just leave the out of office autoresponder on permanently and it will respond. They will email and say, "Hey, I want to get in." It will immediately respond saying, "Hey, congrats. You're on the wait list. Um, here's a document with like all the upcoming dates. Here's the price." Like, it's like super high friction. It's like, "Here's everything.
If you want us to reconsider your application, send us this [ __ ] essay." And it's like, "You have to fill out this. You got to say like five to six sentences on like why you're a good fit. Explain the business and what you do. Like which date do you want to do?
Do you want to pay up front or do you want a payment plan? And then I think Courtney said it'll just go through them and just every now and then if someone like made a mistake or they look like they're a good fit like we'll just send them a payment link in the enroll. Um that strategy has been quite cool as well actually.
>> Yeah. So Aiden's asking like what if I'm not you branded and I'm not spending [ __ ] $25,000 a day on ads like what should I do? Like it's a good question.
Like generally speaking, what I see most business owners make the mistake of is when they start their application form, they will get way too trigger happy with adding disqualification questions. And what happens is they create a problem by trying to solve a problem that does not exist yet. What do I mean by that? What I mean is they will make an assumption about poor quality leads that they'll make or they'll make too many assumptions about the poor quality leads that they want that they don't want and
then they'll add all these disqualification questions and just like [ __ ] all people we'll get through. My best suggestion is start with a slightly wider net and then start disqualifying based off like like a full at least a full [ __ ] quarter of data to see like oh yeah like too many of these people are coming through and they just don't end up buying. Too many of these people keep coming through and they don't end up buying. Another one that I always like to add is we can do revenue. So I
do radio select. We do it in ranges.
This can be a disqualification question as well. So what is your average monthly revenue?
Um we do pre-revenue.
We do 0 to 10k a month. We'll do 10k to 30k a month. I'll do 30k 30k to 50k a month. 50 to 100k a month. Yeah. So Eden asked like what if I feel like these questions will turn people I actually get asked this about this question a lot like will people
want to um tell them your monthly revenue. Um yep people tell us their monthly revenue all the time. They'll [ __ ] lie sometimes and like say it's more than it actually [ __ ] is. And you find out in the sales go you [ __ ] inflated that number. Like someone will be pre-revenue and they're like no but like I'm actually like 0 to 10k a month cuz I got this [ __ ] full-time job.
You're never going to, unfortunately, you're never going to completely 100% eradicate all your bad leads because people have the op people have free will. They can just [ __ ] lie. Like that's an option and they will exercise their free will.
Like you can actually check if um one particular question is turning people away. I'll show you an industry sets um analysis thing. So, if we go sites, surveys, this is a good example because I ran this like last week. Um, and I was testing this to see how much friction I had. So, if we go surveys, you can see here like slide one, slide two, slide three, you can see that slide three has like nearly half the people drop off.
I'm not sure what's going on with that [ __ ] one, but um like 40% of people would drop off at slide three. And if you look at slide three, it's an open text field. This one here, what are you looking to work on with your coach? your biggest challenge building like room to improve like it even gives them prompts and like 40% of people like can't be [ __ ] like not typing anything and even you look at the submissions like the people that do submit I won't because there's people's contact details in there but like the people that do submit
there's like one like a couple word answers and stuff like that so I think we changed this one to back to a form and then um multiple multiple choice or the radio select specifically um another one that I really like to add as Sometimes people will put um like industry. So for example, I have industry. So I'll put what kind of service do you provide and based off of like which one they select, I'll send them testimonials specific to them. So someone's in fitness and health, I'll
just send the online fitness coach testimonials and stuff like that. I'll show you how to do that later. Um the other one that I really like to add as well is website. This one's great. Um, what I see a lot of people do is also like what type of business do you have?
Like tell us about your business or business name and they put business name in, but then you got to [ __ ] Google them, try and find the right one.
Whereas if you just have website, it pretty much has everything you need there. Like you'll be able to find their Instagram from there, you'll be able to find their Facebook from there because usually the social media links are like linked in like the contact us page or at the bottom in the footer. Um, and so the website is just like an easy way to get pretty much everything that you need just from that one link. Then what I do is we go from like lowest to highest uh psychological resistance and like commitment when it comes to contact details. So slide by slide, I go full
name. Now I don't do first name then last name because if I drag and drop that in, you can see I've got to click between those two. Now I got click that and then click that. So I just do full name and then email is slightly more willing than phone number. So I go email next. I need to make that required too.
And then I will go phone number. Just like that. Um this is recording. So for the recording I'm going to say you should leave in these consent forms for people's phone numbers. However, in practicality I'm not a [ __ ] coward.
So just delete that [ __ ] And then you have submit. And then you have save. Then when we go back to the application page, we can save that. But now we've got the survey. We can click through. What if you're a one step and you do like quotes for jobs, your home services, and trades. Can I just leave some of those fields a bit more open and ask them the questions on that on that
call when I contact them so >> yeah there there is a fine line of like how many questions do you add because then you have nothing to talk about in the sales process >> as little you want as little information as you can get away with that if you just got an email and said I know their name to email their phone number and their responses to like two or three questions if it's worth calling them or not and finding out the rest otherwise is it just becomes too much. You're asking too much from like the first point of contact. The rest should just
be done in the sales process. The other thing as well is like people will add questions that like and this is a little bit hypocritical cuz I don't do anything with my first question, but they'll add too many questions that just like do not serve a purpose. Like for example, um Reese Livingstone does this. We're really good mates. He has a question um on his survey which is something like time on brand which is like I don't know exactly what the question's worded but it's like how long have you been
following Reese basically and I imagine there's variations like just saw an ad this week been following him for ages been watching his YouTube [ __ ] like that and I was talking with him I was like oh maybe we could add something like that and he was like but then I also said and he agreed I was like what am I going to do with that information I mean I could contextualize the nurtures based on like, okay, well, this person knows lots about us, so maybe send them less. Or this people does not this person does not know anything. Like,
send them more. Um, but I can't be [ __ ] Like, I I just give everyone the same [ __ ] information. And then also, it's open to like like with all the other questions, it's open to their own interpretation. Like, if someone says, "Yeah, I know heaps about you guys." My opinion of you know heaps about me and someone else's opinion of I know heaps about you is very very different. It's kind of similar to like um have you ever read the you probably haven't but like have you ever seen the studies into they
actually measured what people actually meant when they said like more than likely likely probably stuff like that.
And they got them to say, "All right, when you say probably, what do you actually mean as a percentage?" And then the answers wildly fluctuated between like, so the average for probably was like 70%. But one standard deviation left and right was like 20%. So someone could say probably and mean 50%. And someone else could be 90%. So like again I'm trying to get the philosophy of like human language and truth but you you
just do the best you can with the surveys. Now the landing page is built we can set up conversion tracking but we need to understand why it's important first.
>> So conversion tracking is how your ad account knows what's happening off the platform.
>> Ad account as in you're talking about meta, right?
>> Yeah. Meta like Google has its own version conversion tracking. There's also like heaps of different ways you can set up conversion tracking. Um we're going to upload um like the conversion tracking instructions from school with this video. But so you can understand at a macro level how conversion tracking works. So if this is your ad account, you're running campaigns. Those people are clicking an ad and then they're going to a landing page and you've got a form on there. Right now, without
conversion tracking, all your ad account knows is I sent people here. [ __ ] knows what they did. Right. So, what we need to do is install a messenger owl. What noise does an owl make?
>> Yeah. So, the first thing it does is tells you who has been there, right? So this is when you install your pixel or at the time of recording this, Meta hasn't fully [ __ ] gone all in on calling it a data set or a pixel. So half of your ad accounts are going to call it a pixel, half of your ad accounts are going to call it a data set and the third half of you it's going to be called [ __ ] both depending on what [ __ ] window you're on. So, someone will see an ad and then your Messenger
owl is going to communicate back, hey Brandon's ad account, I saw Sev was here on this landing page or I saw Sophie was here, right? Or I saw Kira was here.
What that allows the ad account to do and the creator of the ad account is to create custom audiences. So, anyone that's been in your ad account for the last like you can go up to 180 days, right? So firstly, who's been there?
Second thing it does, what did they do?
So this is where we need to set up conversion tracking, right? So it's sure it's useful for me to know Sophie has been here, but who completed this form and became a lead? Who went to the second page and scheduled a call? So we need to set up rules so that our penguin knows, well, it's an owl.
We swap between penguin and owl in the workshop and it looks like an avocado with a head. But we need to set up rules so we know, hey, if they got to this landing page with this URL, someone became a lead. If someone got to this landing page with this URL, they scheduled a call, right? So now the messenger hour can communicate to the ad account. Hey Brandon, saw Sophie was here. She scheduled a call. By the way, she clicked this ad. She came from this ads set. Sev booked a call as well. He clicked this ad in this ads set. Then
what you can see is like this ad got this many bookings for this cost per schedule.
>> Do they also track the type of person?
>> I'll get to that in a second.
>> Okay.
>> So the third thing it does is as a result of knowing who's been there and what they've done, it will do pattern recognition. So just digital racism and it will learn. Right. So Facebook allegedly I reckon it's more. They allegedly have 57,000 data points on every single user on the platform. And so it will draw connections between like who they are, what they did, their browsing activities, what else they do on the internet.
>> And it'll go, all right, Sophie scheduled leads, Sev scheduled lead, Curious scheduled, Joseph scheduled, what do all these people have in common?
And then it will just go find people that look like people that have already scheduled calls so it can do its job better and better and better. Because if if Meta's job isn't >> performing well, you're going to stop spending money.
>> Y >> right. And then that means their whole system is shot. So it's in their best interest to get you quality leads. And uh is that where Andromeda comes in?
>> Nearly. So the next thing we had to talk about is pixel conditioning. Right. So we kind of talked about this just before, but let's say this band is everyone that you're targeting.
Facebook's pretty good. Um, all these like paid media buying dorks that like you need 30 days for it to [ __ ] learn. They're all cowards. Like it has 57,000 arguably more points of data on every single user on the planet. It's probably going to be [ __ ] right from the get- go as long as you follow basic principles for advertising. Your ad is a [ __ ] Your landing page could communicate things clearly. So, if this is the band of people that's um you're trying to target, Facebook's probably going to be [ __ ] right from day one.
It's going to look at the ad. is going to read the transcript. It's going to look at the landing page, go, "Ah, these people here, this segment of this band, they're going to convert first." It's probably going to be [ __ ] right. Now, if we don't have conversion tracking set up, and it goes for these people, it works, but it doesn't know. What do you think it will do next?
>> Go to the next tier.
>> Yeah, it will go, "Well, [ __ ] that didn't work. I thought it would have worked." It did. It just didn't know.
What about these people? Oh, [ __ ] That didn't work either. like what about these people and then it'll wig out, right? When really all I had to do was just like dig around here a little bit more, right? So sometimes we'll have members in the widy program and we tell them like, "Hey, make sure conversion tracking set up before you turn your ads on cuz it's probably going to [ __ ] work immediately." But if it works immediately, it doesn't know. It will just start spazzing out.
>> Hey, as you're going through this process, if you want to help, obviously at this point in time, you know about our two-day workshops and you know about the six months of support. One of the things you're probably wondering is, I'm not particularly tech-savvy. I can't recall a single member that's enrolled in our with you program that actually considered themselves techsavvy. The most common thing that we hear later like days and weeks after the workshop was just how easy we made the process for everyone for people that didn't consider themselves techsavvy. There's like three at the time of recording there's three or four co tech support
calls a day. So you can hop on with one of our ad specialists, set up conversion tracking, domain names, all that stuff.
So if you want that level of support so you don't need to rely on an agency and you can get consistent leads without one click there'll be some links in the description.
>> Now is that the difference between what other people are agencies do they don't set that up and it just shits itself two months of [ __ ] all >> yeah cuz then you got like pixel conditioning as well. Okay. So for us on our application survey, let's say we have service- based businesses and ecom businesses. We can only work with service- based businesses. However, if someone completes the form in their e-commerce, we don't want to tell the
penguin our avocado that it got a lead because it will go find more ecom people and then it will still like it will get leads and it will think it's doing its job correctly because you told it, hey, if someone completes a form, even if they say ecom, you did your job good.
It'll go, oh baby, I'm a smart boy. And then it will just start finding more ecom people. It will still get service based people but you'll be paying for ecom people as well.
>> You don't want that.
>> Yeah. Right. So we need to we need to be very clear and like setting up in your workflows and higher level. A lead or a schedule only counts if they say the right answers not just complete the form. Right? Because otherwise what will happen is we had this issue with industry set where like I don't know what happened with Facebook this week.
It completely it was insane what happened like it we were running ads for a webinar for industry set.
>> So this is March 2026.
>> No this was like Q3 of last year I think.
>> Y >> maybe Q2. It was at the old office and industry set always has this problem where people see music producers we mean electronic music producers like bass music producers. So we have that in all the copy now but we had music producers in there. So rappers kept coming through. Dude, there must be so many [ __ ] rappers on planet Earth because our cost per lead went from like $50 down to like three, but literally everyone was a rapper. Like literally every single person was a rapper. Like
we looked them up. I'm like, "Oh my [ __ ] god." We ended up having to just nuke the pixel and start a new one. No, I have no idea how it [ __ ] h it went like [ __ ] It was actually insane.
Right. So that's that's pixel conditioning. So, we need to be very clear in our conversion tracking.
Completing a form in it of itself is not a lead. Completing a form with the correct qualifying questions is otherwise we'll go find more the wrong people thinking it's doing the right thing >> and that's a waste of money.
>> Yeah. And then like as a as an extension of all of this, people always ask like, well, how does Facebook like predict people's behavior? So, like remember when you like first made your Facebook account in like high school or something like that and you like select all your interests like I'm interested in like blink 182 and like my chemical romance and [ __ ] You never updated your interest ever again, did you? Right. But because this messenger owl or the pixel or the data set, whatever your interface calls it, is on so many different websites on the internet, it's not just
used by advertisers. It's used by Facebook to make a more accurate profile. So you won't Okay, here's a perfect example. Go to Office Works and just look up standing desks. Sure, you'll get some retargeting ads from Office Works for that standing desk, but you'll also just get other ads for standing desks because sure, Office Works is using their data set to retarget you, but Facebook's also using the data set to go, "All right, Sev was on a landing page. Looks like that image
is a standing desk. The headline says standing desk. Who's trying to sell standing desks?" and it'll just go find advertisers that are trying to find standing desk, right? This is kind of where Andromeda comes in and like the automated targeting because the targeting on Meta is moving more and more towards automated targeting, right?
Facebook has enough data on every single [ __ ] person on Earth that it doesn't need to you to tell it, hey, I'm trying to target business owners. It's just like raised the idea. I've done this like a billion [ __ ] times because I've been around since what 2010 or whatever like that has more data than anyone else. It's like it truly like competitive.
>> Well, that's good because then I don't have to move the dials of like between the age of 20 to 35 and they're into I remember when you first set up my ads like this was like 2 years ago.
>> It was like >> this demographic, this demographic, and the andrometer comes and goes, >> "No, >> easier." >> Now, this you still want to put like some guard rails in place. Like geography is a really important one.
Like if you can only target a post code, you should tell Facebook that otherwise, oh this person in city is interested in the same thing.
>> But generally speaking, like when it comes to targeting a Facebook, you just like say who you want >> and then we'll go find that person.
>> Makes sense to me. And it's actually a lot easier when you've written it out like this. For me, when I look at uh the Facebook business suite, it looks like uh the dashboard of an airplane. I [ __ ] hate it. Even dude, even I don't like their [ __ ] >> interface.
>> And every time I see a video of of someone explaining it to me and then I go to my business suite, it's [ __ ] different.
>> It's different. Yeah, that's the other thing with like Facebook. They'll split test different versions of the interface to see which one people find easier.
However, they haven't [ __ ] split test a version that's just like a no-brainer.
It's just like they're a trillion dollar company that doesn't get worked out. One more thing that I will um touch on, and we'll get to this when we start building campaigns. It gets this data on like who's going to be a lead and this data on who's going to be a schedule based on all the data it has about people that are being like leady and scheduly, right? So if you tell Facebook that you want link clicks, it will get you link clicks but not leads. If you tell it to get leads, it will get leads. Some will schedule, but what would be more
effective is telling it to go for schedules, right? Because out of your target audience, if this is the pie chart, like say you're trying to target business owners, there's a segment of this audience that wants to like read blogs, there's a segment of this audience that wants to view videos.
There's a segment of this that wants to give up their contact details and become a lead. There's a segment of this audience that wants to like schedule stuff in an appointment and behaved in that way. And so when you tell Facebook, hey, I'm trying to target small business owners, but I want the scheduly people.
>> It'll find the scheduly people. Yeah, cuz then that um gives you a better chance of getting more and more qualified leads and that's just like a compounding effect, right?
>> Y >> exactly.
>> And that's what Andromeda is.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. I'll talk about Andromeda in more detail once we get to like add diversity and creative and stuff like that.
>> Cool.
>> Now that we understand conversion tracking, we need to set it up. Not going to lie, I don't [ __ ] know how to do it. This is like the first thing that I hired for in the company, so I don't know how to set up conversion tracking. Anyway, this is Ben. Hey guys, welcome to Meta Conversion Tracking. Uh, in this video, we're going to be covering just setting up a direct Meta setup. So, here's what we're going to need. We're going to need a meta business account. We're going to need an ad account underneath that business account. And then we're just going to need access to our landing page or website backend. So, I'm going to be using go high level because that's what we recommend. But if you are just using
your website, then make sure that you can log in and make changes to that one.
And then you have it ready for this setup. Now, we want to get first into events manager. Uh, and the way that we get there is if you go to business.fas.com, you should arrive in your meta business suite here, you might just have to log in. Uh, and once you do arrive here, you just want to go over here to ads manager. You want to scroll down and click on events manager. Once we've done that, we should arrive on a page a little bit like this one. If you do have a pixel, if you don't already have a
pixel set up, then you're going to see a mostly blank page with some writing. And then there should be a button that says something like connect data. I want you to click on that one like I am doing up here. I want you to select web.
And then you shouldn't see this page if you don't already have a pixel. Uh so I'm going to hit create new data set.
And then I want you to name that pixel after your business. So I'm going to call this tech business.
Um and then these categories only apply most likely if you're a financial services business. If that's the case, then you'll click on that. Uh most of these other categories probably won't apply to you, but if you do have some sort of slightly sensitive style business, then maybe just have a look and make sure. So, we're going to hit create.
Um, now you shouldn't see this one, so I'm just going to keep moving.
Now, we're going to get this recommended setup page. Uh, we want to ignore this.
We want to go see other ways to set up, and we want to go set up manually.
Next. And then we're going to go metapixel only. Next.
Now, if you already have a pixel that you've used from the past, if it's on your website and you now want to use go high level or something like that, um then if you go into your events manager and you come down here to data sets, you should see a page like this one with your current pixel. And what I want you to do is I want you to scroll down. I want you to hit add events. I want you to hit set up new integration metapixel setup manually add code to your website
get started and then you should land on the same page that we are on from the new pixel. Now either way that you got here I want you to click on copy code and then from there we can get into guy high level or whatever website you're using. I want you to come into sites on the side here and then I want you to click on whatever funnel you're setting up. So, I'm going to click on this two-step funnel. I'm going to come over here into settings. And then underneath head tracking code here is where I'm
going to paste in my Metapixel code. So, you should see this one in here. And then don't forget to just scroll down and hit save. All right. Great. Now that we've got our Metapixel installed, uh the next step here is to make sure that GoHighle is sending the events that we want to meta. And what I mean by that is when someone takes an action like filling out your form, you want to make sure that that is registered as a lead and that they are a new lead and that is sent over to Meta so that Meta knows
that. So what we're going to do is we're going to come into our landing page here. Uh and then we're going to hit edit. And once that's loaded, I want you to scroll down and I want you to click on your form or your survey. Doesn't matter which one you're using. Uh I don't have one here yet, so I'm just going to pick this one. And then I want you to hit edit survey. Then we're going to go into settings and then we're going to scroll right down until you see Facebook pixel events. And I want you to have on form submission to be set as lead. So that whenever someone submits a
form that is firing a lead event and then we're just going to hit save. We're going to exit out. Uh I want you to hit publish and then we're going to go back.
Just going to ignore this one. Great.
Now if you're a one-step funnel, that is you done. That's all you need to do.
It's that easy. We have set up everything that you need. We've got your base pixel and we've got your lead event done. If you are a two-step funnel, uh then there is one more thing we need to do and that is set up the schedule event for if someone actually books in with you. Uh cuz that's a very handy thing to be able to see in your campaigns and for meta to learn off of as well. So, what we're going to do is we're going to head over into settings down the bottom here.
We're then going to head into calendars.
And once we're here, we're going to click edit calendar. this little pencil icon.
We're going to go into advanced settings, form and confirmation, and then we're going to scroll down until we see pixel ID. Uh, so we want to paste the pixel ID in there. So, how we get that is we go back into our events manager. We're going to go back into data sets over here. And then you should see your uh pixel ID just underneath the name here. You should be able to highlight that one. if I the whole thing and you should be able to copy that, head back into high level and paste it
in there. Then you're going to hit save changes and that's it. You're done. So even for the two-step funnel now, we've got your schedule event. We've got your lead event. Um by default, your campaign should be set up for leads. So you should see that in the results column in your campaigns. But if you want to, you can also set up custom columns so that you can see your leads and your schedule side by side in your campaigns. see how many you're getting, how much it's costing you to get those, and whatever else you want to set up. So, that's all we needed to do.
>> Now that we have our landing page and conversion tracking set up, we need to start understanding the theory of ads.
All right. So, now that we've got the landing page and the conversion mechanism nurtures as well, we want to drive as much qualified traffic as we can to that. Now, this is something that a lot of people kind of neglect. They just think they can send any traffic there. Um there is again like one of my principles like an art versus a science to it. Uh the first thing we need to talk about is the Andromeda update. It's been talked about heaps some people but still like even now it's been out for 9
months at the time of recording this and still if I ask people in a workshop that are new have you heard of Andromeda?
Only like half the room will raise their hands. Long story short, if you want to get into the details of like what it is, just Google Andromeda update and there'll be a long ass [ __ ] nerdspeak article from engineering at Meta that explains how it works. Long and short of it is because of AI generated content, there were so many ads being published to the platform that it was taking longer for Facebook to match ads with
people. And so it essentially had to add this second layer to the ad matching algorithm and it called andrometer. What it looks for is it refers to as creative diversity. Now from memory there's like three different types of diversity they look for. There's I think it's theme, messaging, and visuals. The long and short of it is like we could talk about for hours. The long and short of it is just say [ __ ] different things in your ads and make them look differently.
What you used to be able to do with Facebook uh is you could get away with running just honestly even just like one ad and that ad would just work [ __ ] for ages. Sometimes like two ads, maybe three ads and it would just work for >> like the OG one with your microphone on at the table.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I cooked with that ad that literally years I ran that ad. Uh can't do that anymore. Well, I should be careful my words. You can do that. It will just not work as well as if you publish lots and lots and lots of different ads. So you used to be able to just run like two or three.
Best practice now is having at least a way you'd have like one campaign, you'd have like a couple ad sets, maybe like a cold one, a retargeting one, like a lookalike or something like that. And then you'd have like one, two, or three ads. Now we want like a dozen [ __ ] ads. And we want them to all say different things. Now, the easiest way to think about this concept is, if you recall back to last week when we talked
about your customer avatar, we drew out all the different reasons that they should use your product. We had the towards motivators, we had the away from motivators, we had the things that they tried in the past, we asked why, we asked then what. Easiest way to come up with like these first 12 ads is just look at all the points that you wrote down and go, "Yeah, I reckon a lot of people resonate with that one." And that would be ad one. you look at another one, you're like, "Yeah, it's probably that one, too." Add two, add three, add four, add five, add six, add seven,
eight, nine, so on and on and so on and so on. Like, if I look, if I get my phone and look at the photo that we took the other day, like the main one, one that came up was like they've been spinning their wheels. Like, they're not doing enough. They're not doing it correctly. Another one is camera anxiety, like they don't know. They hit record and they don't know what to say.
So, that would be an idea for an ad.
We'll talk about in a moment how to flesh out these ideas into specific ads.
There's this thing called the rule of one.
>> I do have one question about going back to Andromeda >> and this is just for what people are I've seen do and what they're thinking of doing is creating the same ad but with one specific variable changed in the >> ad. So like for example, it's the same video, maybe the hook has changed.
>> Can't do that anymore.
>> You can't.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you what what and even if you change the title or the description in the ad?
>> Yeah. What I used to do was if I just had one body video that was doing quite well, I just change out the hook. You be able to do that. It needs to be >> um >> a completely new creative.
>> Yeah. Completely new creative.
>> So you can't even AB test it.
>> You you can um and again like this is the dials not switches thing like everything will work to a degree. Best practice in the eyes of Andromeda is you should have completely unique ads.
>> So now we're in a world of one piece of content is for one ad and then let it rip. If it doesn't work >> and what you'll notice will happen as well is in typical Andromeda fashion, it will spend like 90% of the budget on like one of the ads.
>> Why is that? Because basically what it's doing is especially at lower budgets, if you've got 12 different ads, it's going to and the way it matches it is it will read the transcript, so what you say in the ad. It will look at the visuals like what's in the background. It will also look at the landing page. And I don't think and well, this is a little bit of a side tangent. I don't think Andromeda gets enough [ __ ] credit for how good it is. Like it's pretty rare that Facebook rolls out an update where I'm
like, "Oh, [ __ ] yeah, banger." It's usually like, "How the [ __ ] did you come up with this one?" Like, "How did this >> change the entire business?" >> Like, it it is so so good at predicting human behavior.
>> Now, with with the 90% to one ad, >> uh are we skipping ahead too quickly or like >> No, no, it's fine. So, like what will happen is like let's say you spent you've spent like $1,000. It will probably spend like 800 bucks on this one, maybe like a hundred on this one, and then it will like trickle through to the other ones.
>> Does that mean the first one is working the best and it's allocated the budget there?
>> The reason that it has allocated the budget to I mean, one of the possible reasons why it has allocated the budget to let's say add one in this instance is it's read the transcript. is looked at who like who you're trying to target and going I reckon this ad has the best chances of resonating with this audience. So the the way you think about it is the way Jeremy explained this to me was um if you think of like oil wells or water aquifers and so let's say for
example you have oil wells let let's say this ad is just about relying on word of mouth. So this ad is just about relying on word of mouth. Pretty much [ __ ] every especially beginner business owner is relying on word of mouth. And so Andromeda is going to read the transcript and go, "All right, this is about relying on word of mouth." A lot of people in this audience have responded to other ads about relying on word of mouth. Um I'm probably going to I'm going to place a lot of bets on this
one, right? Whereas let's say ad nine is more niche. It could be, for example, um, okay, I'm gonna get really niche.
Like, pipe drive is looking empty.
That's that's the core idea behind it.
It's going to go, all right, well, Pipe Drive, I know that that's like some CRM system. Um, not many people I mean, this isn't true, but like let's say like not many people in the audience um have expressed interest in Pipe Drive.
>> Well, compared to word of mouth painpoint.
>> Exactly. Like this is a big top offunnel idea. Everyone's relying on word of mouth, but someone relying on Pipe Drive specifically and it being empty, it's smaller pocket audience.
>> Yeah. I mean, the 57,000 touch points of data, the bet's going to be closer to a sure thing.
>> Yeah. And so, it's going to spend some money, but what you'll notice is, let's say it spends like 10 or 20 bucks for like a month. Don't like turn it off.
And we'll get into optimizations later, like when to make decisions based off of numbers. But what you'll notice with these smaller pocket ads is they'll spend a little bit, but then they'll just like hit at like a really [ __ ] low cost per lead. So typically speaking, they'll be really low spend, but really low cost per result as well.
And so they're worth leaving on because dude, imagine if you were using Pipe Drive and then you saw an ad saying, "Is your pipe drive looking empty?" like this [ __ ] knows the exact software that I'm using. Like it's it's really going to resonate.
>> Yeah. And then they'll go down the rabbit hole and the cost of acquisition will be pretty low.
>> Yeah. The other thing to talk about when it comes to Andromeda is this is now your targeting. So the way Facebook ads used to work 2017 in the [ __ ] gold rush days. I miss those days. I give this rant all the goddamn time. Like the way Facebook targeting used to work was you had all these [ __ ] targeting options cuz no one had any [ __ ] privacy on Facebook. You still don't by the way. It's just like they hide it
behind this now. So like previously like if if a Facebook page literally just had as little as 40,000 likes, you could just target the followers. So if you if your competitor had 41,000 likes on their Facebook page, great news. So you can just [ __ ] target everyone that's liked your competitors.
And then basically what happened was like after what was the thing called?
Cambridge Analytica. Did you ever use that?
>> Yeah.
>> Did Did you use it? It was sick. Right.
So like >> sick. Yeah. I'm going to go with that word. But like it was pretty cool because basically what it could do is >> you All right. So this is going to be eye opener for some of you. You ever like logged into like a Facebook quiz in 2017? It's like what Disney princess are you? and I don't know if what Pinterest I am and then you like logged in with Facebook and then it like basically the way it works is it scraped the API got like all this [ __ ] data on here like all your all your interest all this
stuff and then Cambridge Analytica this built this app that would like basically do a pretty accurate psychoanalysis on you just based off your browsing activity like it would figure out if you went left or right on the political spectrum if you were agreeable or disagreeable your emotion from like happy. So like for example for mine like you're probably depressed because like you're interested in law dispute and my chemical romance and I was like that's pretty [ __ ] bang on and so and then there was another one who thought I was
disagreeable because I was interested in Seinfeld and dead mouse something like that right um and so previously when it came to ads you'd like okay so you'd have your campaign and I am jumping ahead you'd have your campaign then the ad set is where you would set the targeting you still kind of do that.
But these and what you say in the ads uh hold significantly more weight into who the ad is going to get shown to. This is honestly now treated more as a suggestion. And so you have to flip your thinking in 2026 when it comes to ads.
Um because typically the way that business owners will come to me and the language that they'll specifically use when they talk about targeting is we want to be able to target the right customer. It's close, but what they think is like we're going to make all these like little microargeting adjustments. It's not true. Now, what we need to do is what ad do I need to write and what do I need to say in my video and what do they need to see so that the
algorithm will go you're going for service-based business owners not e-commerce business owners.
>> It works the same with organic as well for for search.
>> Yep. Yeah, you're exactly right. Right.
So, now we need to shift this thinking.
This like you spend [ __ ] all time here anymore. you just like you pretty much just do most of the time you just do advantage plus and then Facebook will go yep you're obviously trying to target business owners or in this industry that makes sense so this is the targeting now >> so for this here your uh sweet spot for any business is 12 videos >> 12 is like a general rule of thumb >> okay so 12 videos for how long >> uh like how long you'd run them for >> yeah I'd like go like 12 videos and keep them running for like at least a month
>> and a month and what's the intro pro spend per day.
>> Yeah, usually I recommend at least in our with you workshops anyway, I recommend people start with if you're a beginner, I recommend starting with $30 to $50 a day. Now, that is fast enough you can get leads like same or next day often cases, but slow enough that if a week goes by and you're not happy with it, you haven't burnt hundreds or thousands of dollars and you don't need to optimize as fast. If you do want to see results faster and you do want to test faster and you're feeling a little
bit more [ __ ] chadvertising, want to put your nuts on the [ __ ] table, then to spend a couple hundred a day. Because the way you want to think about it is, all right, so if someone is spending $100 a day and someone else is spending $1,000 a day, it takes the first person 10 days to learn what the second person will learn in a 24-hour cycle. Now, there is a caveat to that because it depends on like what day of the week it
was running, [ __ ] like that. But when you have the cash flow for it and you want to learn faster, just the answer is just spend more on ads. You will learn significantly faster because if you have if we have like a member in the program, they're spending like 30 to 50 bucks a day where they keep coming to advisory calls every day. I'm like, bro, we can't talk about anything. It's like it spent 30 bucks overnight. Like, we can't talk about anything. I mean we can talk about it. We shouldn't do anything though.
>> So you need to let the science do its thing and the math to math out.
>> Yeah. You had to like collect data and then go and then you can look at the numbers.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> And then the other thing like I'm kind of getting into basian statistics now.
But the other thing is like the law of large numbers. So let's say um like okay so if you flip a coin um a 100 times the first 10 it might be like 70% uh heads 30% tails but if you just keep flicking that flipping that coin eventually it kind of evens out >> to like 50/50 like advertising is very much the same at the start like your results like if this is time and this is
like uh I'll just call it results It's going to look like this. But like if you just zoom in to like these three days, like that's a [ __ ] wild fluctuation, right? But if you zoom out to the time frame, it averages out.
>> Yeah. And and if the line of best fit is positive, then you're on the money.
>> Yep. Let it rip. Don't be a [ __ ] about it.
>> Yeah. It's the same as shares.
>> Yeah. Just gamble. You just bet on the [ __ ] average. What we'll do now is we'll then talk about a filter for like writing ads. So there was this copywriter who was like the [ __ ] goat for copyrightiting. So Michael Masterson, you can still find this video on YouTube. Actually, just YouTube search like Michael Masterson, the rule of one. And it's a bit of a long speech, but he basically boils down his all of his lessons from all of his decades
being a copywriter to like one core principle. And the idea is that one a good ad follows what he refers to as the rule of one. So it follows one idea, one story, one promise, one emotion, and one call to action. What this also prevents happening is having like a Frankenstein ad, which is like you have this ad, but it's like all these kind of different
ideas and you got these different stories and you're trying to mash them together. And as the reader reads it or listens to it, if it's a video, it's very uncoisive and their brain's just jumping around. We want to focus on like one idea, one story, one promise, one emotion, one call to action. And the way that I like to think about the idea is like a point that you wrote down in the custom avatar. So remember that diagram before. So let's >> relying on word of mouth.
>> Yeah, exactly. So the idea here, this would be like let's say this is ad one is like relying on word of mouth. Now, story. There's a couple of different ways you can do this. One is you can talk through a case study. That's a really, really good one. Another one is you speak to what that person is experiencing. And so, you basically talk through the ad like, you know, you wake up every morning and just hoping one of your customers told a friend they know about you and that person decide like as
the person's reading it, they're going, "Yeah, that's [ __ ] exactly what I experienced." Now, this link ties really, really well. Do you remember? Do could you remember what principle this might tie with? Meet them where they're at.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> So, like you want to repeat back a story. Like your goal with your ads, and I've said this maybe a couple times already over the last couple hours, is like you want to repeat back what's going through their head, the stories that they're telling themselves and go so that they go, "How the [ __ ] are you reading my mind?" Give you a perfect example, actually, cuz this is recent.
So me and Aiden now that we're filming or we film our ads, we have to think constantly what's going for our prospect's head and we're at a very unique position where we've spent so much money on ads for the last year and a half that pretty much everyone in the [ __ ] country has seen our ads like that is a business owner at least and even people that aren't [ __ ] business owners because if you spend that much money and just like [ __ ] it who else is
here and so now we have to think of ads that are addressing people that are business owners and they pretty much agree with everything that I say except for one thing. So, they agree that they need more leads. They agree that I need more qualified leads. They agree that agencies generally haven't worked for them. There's just like one thing that like hasn't got them over the fence. And so, I didn't tell you, but like the best performing ad from that batch we filmed last week was the one that was like,
"You've been sitting on the fence for [ __ ] months, haven't you?" Yeah, because >> my my one is you're stuttering on camera every time you turn it on, aren't you? Y and a lot of people come like say from Yeah, I saw that ad where you're stuttering and I'm like, "Yeah, that's literally me on the camera." >> Yep. Exactly. Right. And so you repeat back their internal monologue, dude. It got like a cost per It's again, it's a very small sample size of data, but it got a cost per schedule for like 20 bucks last night.
>> Our usual is like for the last month in March has been like $700. far out.
>> Again, small sample size of data, but like great indicators. Like >> is that like a kind of moment where it's would be going viral organically and then it's complemented by Andromeda to push to the right people quicker kind of like cuz Facebook's just really really good at predicting like all right Brandon's talking about you've been sitting on the fence for months.
>> Yeah.
>> This cunt's seen this ad so many times.
Try it.
So, and then the person read like, "Yeah, you're [ __ ] right." Right. And then one promise, right? So, this is generally speaking like the outcome, right?
>> So, what would the promise be for one of your rides?
>> One of the promises uh yeah, get more confident on camera.
>> Yeah. So, like confidence on camera.
>> Confidence on camera and not have to rely on word of mouth. Be able to get inquiries while you sleep. Um whilst the digital digital world um finds Yeah. And the digital people find you.
>> Yep. And then emotion. Like pretty simple. We just want to focus on one >> one would be Yeah. I mean the the biggest one people say is they want to buy their time back.
>> So like less stress.
>> Yeah. Less stress uh or more freedom.
>> Now the emotion. Um I'm going to talk about how you can use the rule of one as a filter to look at winning ads and go all right what were the ideas here? So like less stress. What you'll generally find with emotions for ads is I get asked this question all the time like is it better to lean into more positive or more negative emotions. The correct answer is like [ __ ] try both and then Andromeda will figure it out.
>> Yeah. But realistically I've seen more negative.
>> It depends on industry. So generally speak in my experience and my sample size of data more negative emotions work better for business owners. I think cuz we're more [ __ ] skeptical, been burnt enough times, had like enough negative experience.
>> What industry would be a positive one?
>> I think fitness that works quite well.
I've been told fitness that works quite well.
>> I mean, if you're trying to fat shame in your ads, you're not going to go far.
>> Well, again, dials, not switches, everything will work to a degree.
>> [ __ ] around, find out.
>> Yeah, [ __ ] around, find out. Like the other the other point that I'll make with ads is like you want to avoid thinking and this this is supported by like one of my principles and links to it. You want to avoid thinking I don't know if this ad will do very well cuz you had to remember the law of large I'm going to I'm going to write that down because it's so [ __ ] important. Law of large numbers. You have to remember your opinion on the ad is just a sample
size of one. So, the number of times where like me and Aiden have filmed like I don't know 30 ads and I've been like I reckon this one's going to rip. I've been wrong like 99% of the time. Like the other 99% of the time, well, the the 99% of the time it's the ad. How the [ __ ] did that one work?
>> Well, it's the same with the organic stuff. Every time there's been a sample of 30 and the client goes, I really need them to look like this. I'm like, yeah, okay, cool. They're probably not going to work. 99% of them don't random one we make on a whim >> does >> some of them still bomb >> and it's just like okay still the sample size is getting bigger and then over time we'll get to the point where I'm
like oh it's that specific thing >> that works the best and then you let it rip >> eventually and then put it as an ad.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> Yeah. Um there there's another point I'll make to that as well which I will make in a moment. And then the finally is like the one call to action. So what you want to not do is say something like and to make your inquir click below to learn more or DM us or email us here or like just say like click below to learn. It is always click below to learn more. You're going to have to fight this [ __ ] um I don't know why Facebook does this but like it will have multiple call to actions. So,
like you can have a landing page link, but it'll also be like, "Hey, like from time to time, do you just want us to send them to like a WhatsApp number?" I'm like, "No, just [ __ ] one thing, right?" So, one call to action, which is pretty much always click below, learn more >> and not not like find out if you're the right fit or something like that.
>> Well, you can get spicy with it. So, what Sophie talks about, cuz Sophie teaches the rule of one during our workshops, uh, when she gets people to write the call to action, she goes, "If you want to make it spicy, you can tie it to an emotion." So rather than click below to learn more, it would be like click below to eviscerate your competitors or something.
>> Yeah. Or take the stress away.
>> Exactly. Right. Very simple. Don't need to overthink it. But yeah, >> but then the great thing about the rule of one is once you get a winning ad, so let's say this is your winning ad, right? What we do is we look at it through the lens of the rule of one. And so we go, okay, the what was the idea of this ad? So it's relying on word of mouth.
>> What was the story? Right. So, maybe that stressful morning was the idea of the story. What was the promise, right?
Or even the promise is probably the same, but how he communicated it might have been different. Let's say the outcome of the 2-day with you workshop is you generate your own leads without an agency. There's a there's an infinite theoretically infinite amount of ways I could communicate that. I could say generate your own generate more leads in two days than your agency did in a two-month onboarding process. that says the same outcome just communicated differently, >> right? And then emotion, like was this a positive ad or a negative ad? Was this a stressful ad or an ambitious ad? And
then call to action, generally speaking, [ __ ] does [ __ ] all. But what you were saying before were like organic content, like if one piece of organic content does well. It doesn't necessarily mean run that exact piece of content as an ad, but what I would do is look at this and this.
>> Yeah. take the first part and also the core essence of the video.
>> Yeah.
>> And then strip it down and break it down and go right can we make that again in a different way but the same way.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Well, yeah. Because we want the idea and the story. I mean the promise for sure, the emotion you can look at as well.
It's generally one of these things.
>> I look at organic content as an indicator for what can do well as an ad.
I generally speaking don't run that piece of organic content as an ad directly. The reason for that is generally speaking the language that you'll use in your organic content is to appeal to a very very wide audience.
>> Y >> whereas ads we want to change the language to more committed than curious which is one of the principles that we spoke about and we're going to speak about it in more detail again. Now >> your organic content doesn't have a call to action anyway. So then when it does well and you repurpose it as an ad, you'll have to re-record it anyway >> and then add the things that you need >> and again like everything will work to a degree. So when I'm saying I won't run organic content as ads, I'm not saying
it won't work at all. It will work to a degree. I'll give you a perfect example.
So when um I started doing webinars last year, I just couldn't I just wanted to test like did people want to [ __ ] register for this at all? And so before me and Aiden filmed dedicated ads for it, I just built the landing page for the webinar and just pulled random reels off of my Instagram about internet marketing and just changed the copy and it worked to a degree and I was like, "All right, it could do better if I filmed dedicated ads for it." Then when I filmed dedicated ads for it, it was it did so much better. Right. So that can
be a pretty quick and dirty way of testing ads. It's going, "Fuck it. This real did well. Let's see what happens." >> Yeah. I've got a when I was doing my wedding photography stuff, it was all just organic. Booked it out for two years >> and I was always curious to go what if I ran it as an ad. Yeah.
>> Then I started seeing wedding photography video ads repurposed from skids.
>> Yeah.
>> They're all ripping. They're all smashing it. Now there's >> wedding photography ad agencies out there. It's crazy.
>> All right. So, now that we've covered the rule of one, what we'll talk about is the hooks of the ads. Now, this is by far, you know, the Yeah. Fredo principle, like you get 80% of the outcome from 20% of the inputs. The hook is by far the 20% that gets you like 80% of the results.
>> Now, the reason for that, we're going to talk about hooks here. And I'm speaking both in terms of videos, so what you say in the video, and also the primary text.
So, what we say, >> so the title, >> yeah, the copy, right? So the reason the hook is the like 20% that gets you the 80% of the impact is let's say this is your written ad. It's lines and lines and lines and lines and lines and lines of text. There's a see more button like two to depending on the size of the characters. That means they pretty much just see this and then if it's Instagram they like just see that without having
to click which remember clicking is physical resistance one of my principles to reveal the rest of this. So 100% of people read this section less than 100% of people will read this section.
Right? So what you say here has to do a number of different things and I'll talk about that in a second. And then in terms of the video, let's say this y- axis is retention and this x axis is time. Your retention curve is going to look a little bit something like that.
And then this is 50%. 50% of people are going to drop off at 1.8 seconds. And so you have to do a lot of heavy lifting in like 3 seconds.
>> Yeah. So that's just the cross correlation between written and video and then >> exactly >> complenting both of them together.
>> Yeah. It's lower physical and psychological resistance. Like this is like the video equivalent to this.
>> You know what I mean?
>> And so there's a couple things that your hook needs to do.
>> So firstly, it needs to spark curiosity.
So they go, what is this? However, what it also needs to do is it needs to have committed language. Now, this is by far the most impactful thing you can do when it comes to improving the conversion rate of your landing page. And the third thing it needs to do is filter for shoot clicks. So, what we're going to do now is we're going to go through for you.
We're going to go through an example of just how we can go through each of these. And you can go through like when you eventually master this um you can you can do it all in one take. But just so I can show you the process, we're going to do it step by step. So if you had to spark curiosity for your offer, just give me a sentence. So talking about content, so how do you spark curiosity about content creation?
>> You're a business owner who only who is only relying on word of mouth.
>> That does a great job of sparking curiosity. However, what you'll, in my experience, see happen is people will click this because they go, I'm a business owner with like good word of mouth, but it doesn't set the expectation. Remember, setting expectations is one of our principles that when they get to the landing page.
So, let's say if you, and I want you to pretend you don't know what your offer is. If you just read and you didn't read anything down here about the offer, you just read, "Are you a business owner relying on word of mouth?" Tell me all the things you think that could be on Earth. You know, it's organic content. I could think that it's ads.
>> Yeah.
>> I could think that it's email marketing.
>> I could think that it's starting a YouTube channel >> or an agency.
>> I could think that it's an agency. I could think that it's a podcast.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> There's so many different things. And then only a small segment of the people clicking were even thinking it was organic content. And so what you'll see happen here is and we'll talk about what a high click rate link click rate is is you'll get a really really high link clickthrough rate here like probably like 2 and a half%. But you'll have a really really poor conversion rate on the landing page because they go I'm a business owner relying on word of mouth and then they see content I thought it was [ __ ] podcast and then they just bounce. So we did that but we didn't do
this. So committed language, what we need to do now is we need to add language that implies like what the mechanism is and they can safely assume they're going to need to apply for or contact them. My cheat for this one is just try and find a way to embed the word clients or members or in your instance like workshop attendees into this sentence. So, if you just had to
put the word, pick whatever [ __ ] word you want, like clients or members or >> let's just go workshop attendees.
>> Yeah. So, how do you remix this sentence to just embed that into it?
>> Are you a business owner looking for a workshop that teaches you something other than relying on word of mouth?
It's a bit wordy though.
>> Yeah. So, that one's a bit long. Well, useful tip by the way. It would be easier if I wrote this. Um, I think we spoke about this before like last week.
Much easier. And this is useful for everyone else as well. When you're drafting copy, it's way easier to write down your shitty draft >> rather than trying to bounce it around in your head because when you see the words down on the page and go, "Oh yeah, I just changed this." So if I was to do this, I would do something like, >> so we want to embed the word workshop attendees after these two days. Business owners don't need to rely on word of mouth. Now, when you just read this at face value, it doesn't seem like it's
doing a lot, but there's a lot of things that get implied by just this. Like, for example, if I say it's 2 days, we pretty immediately pretty safely immediately assume that this is a workshop or an event. A couple other things happen as well. Now, we expect when we just read that the landing page we're going to is probably going to be about these two days.
>> Mhm.
>> Right. If we wanted to do these again, I do after these two days creating content. I'm gonna add that. After these two days creating content, business owners don't need to rely on word of mouth.
>> Mhm.
>> Right. Because if I just pretend I erased that again. After these two days, business owners don't need to rely on word of mouth. We've hit the event thing, but we can still think like, oh, you're going to teach me ads? Are you going to teach me how to start a YouTube channel? You're going to teach me how to start a podcast. But if I say after these two days creating content, business owners don't rely on word of mouth. Now we've set that expectation.
That makes sense because it's all very very subtle language changes.
>> And it feels like well the committed language is there too.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. So now we've got committed language because with this first one sometimes people will click it think it's like a [ __ ] blog article or some [ __ ] like that. People are [ __ ] >> and and the sheet clicks is also gone because ah it's two days it's creating content and it's a business owner. Well, are there industries that you don't work with? So, you don't work with e-commerce businesses, do you?
>> I try to avoid the Yeah. e-commerce or, you know, the drop shippers and the real estate.
>> So, we want So, we want service-based business owners that need leads.
>> Yeah.
>> So, what I would do is after these two days creating content, business owners don't need to rely on word of mouth for leads because let's think about again, let's just think about just this. Sorry.
>> Yeah. I mean, word of mouth, >> it's not really an e-commerce thing, is it? No, but they they'll still click it.
Or you might find that like you run it like without the four leads thing. Yeah.
>> And they go, "Oh, this is close enough." >> But yeah, the four leads, it's like, "All right, it's service based clearly." Yeah.
>> And if they still click it, then the landing page will >> will >> Yeah. You can even change it as well, like referrals.
>> Yeah.
>> So referrals is pretty specifically a service-based business on a turn of language.
>> Yeah. Um, very very uncommon to hear an e-commerce business uncommon and again not never uncommon for a bis e-commerce business owner to refer to like referrals. Referrals is very much a service-based business owner language.
And again, this is tying back to what I was speaking about the other day about like using the same language as your customer. That's another way to filter for [ __ ] clicks, >> which was I gave that example before. We had that like hotspot company, but people thought it was like an iPhone hotspot. It's like, "No, it's like 2 and a half grand a day." So, we use like deliberately tech jargon heavy language so that normies like you and I read it and clearly [ __ ] not for me and keep scrolling. So, there's a couple more
ways you can filter for [ __ ] clicks. So, essentially what's going to happen is you're going to get leads in. They're going to get to the sales call and the sales call is going to be a lag indicator for something that is happening usually like the first first like sentence of the ad. So, can you think of any other examples of like [ __ ] leads that you would want that you would not want? Sorry.
>> Uh, easy one. I don't want people with no money. I want >> established businesses.
>> Yeah. So, like financial qualification, >> yeah, >> is a very common one both in B2B and B TOC. So, there's a couple different ways you can go about this. So, I'll give you a B TOC example first. So, business customer, easiest way is just mention them having a job. You basically want to in the first sentence of your ad, you want to mention a situation that someone will only find themselves in if they're financially qualified. So like for example, saying like despite having a
busy 9 to5 or this is how busy professionals are achieving XYZ >> or um you know even when they have to um have to make it to work by 9:00 a.m. or something like that. So all the people on send link are like oh I don't have that problem and less of them not none less of them will click right. So for example like industry set I think a lot of my ads will say like you can't it's difficult to uh make it as a full-time music producer when you've got a busier
juggled juggle a busy day job.
>> I'll just call it employed people scenarios. B2B example you can explicitly mention revenue. I just think it's very uncreative. What you can do instead is you mention like revenue bracket scenarios.
So let's say for example actually you're probably going to encounter this. Do you want to like what's the minimum size of business that you would want to work with?
>> Uh ideally 2 million plus rev or they have at least 10 staff.
>> Yeah, 10 staff. Right. So just getting a little bit into the details. So, if they've got 10 staff, let's say they're making 10 staff times they're making like 80 thou 80k a year. So, they've got $800,000 peranom in wages and salaries. Yeah. So, they've got 2.4 Hey, you knew this. Go on. Aiden's learned this. So, they've got they're probably doing 2.4. It's pretty much [ __ ] bang on. $2.4
million um a year. So, the way that I work that out is in a service-based business, generally speaking, and I learned this the hard way. This is why I got [ __ ] a quarter million dollar atto debt two years ago. So, like, >> here comes a rant.
>> Yeah. So, generally speaking, if the business is being operated by someone that [ __ ] learned this, their wages is like onethird of their revenue. Generally speaking, I had it like 2/3 and that's how I ended up with crypto debt. Um, so they're probably doing 2.4 4 mil a year in revenue, right? So that's pretty much bang on. So you're correct by saying like, "Yeah, they probably got 10 staff." So what you could do is try and embed into the language that you either
say in the hook either in the primary text or in the video like you're already managing a team of 10. Like you don't have you think you don't have time to make content. So the soloreneurs that are just starting out are going, "Oh, this probably isn't." >> I like how this can segue into like that first line being a meme almost. Like is it a meme that's relatable? If you translated that first line into, you know, those videos where it's like seven seconds and it's like a text above.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> If if that makes sense.
>> Yep.
>> Then that can >> they want to be able to see themselves specifically in like that exact scenario.
>> And that meme format is obviously a great organic play, but I can see how that translates into this first section >> and then it can apply to any scenario, even B2B.
>> Yeah. What you'll find is like I'm in an interesting stage in my I suppose marketing >> arc story arc.
>> Yeah. Where you start saying and this is a [ __ ] massive side tangent by the way.
>> So like I'm trying to learn philosophy, right? Okay. So philosophy is just the study of wisdom, right? And then you get into like different you get into different categories. So like philosophy is considered like the father of psychology. And then psycho underneath psychology you have influence and influence can go in like so many different d like an infinite amount of different directions >> and influence can go to manipulation.
>> Yeah. Like you got like you got like market so like if we just go like by marketing and sales >> manipulation >> there there's well there's a there's a crossover, right?
>> Yeah.
>> So like you imagine them like a ven diagram. So, if you're really good at marketing, you're generally really good at sales and and and vice versa because there's this kind of gray area crossover. And then even more so, like by studying psychology, it's like now it looks like a dick. But now, like by studying psychology, you kind of cover both of these. But then what I'm noticing by studying philosophy is it
kind of encompasses like everything because like philosophy is the father of the Am I going like too deep now? But >> I understand.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like I'll go for drives with Malik who's like my philosophy coach and I'm I'm not trying to learn about marketing or sales. I'm trying to learn about philosophy and critical thinking >> and I just know that naturally it will it will help me with these.
>> So for example like we we went for a drive and I want I wanted to talk about the idea of how beliefs are formed.
>> So like you and I have very different views of the world. Okay. So like extend from this one right? So if this is this is my view of the world and this is your view of the world. We have a natural cross. It's going to be more than that, but we have a natural crossover on how we view the world. However, if you and I ever have a disagreement, it's because it lies either here or here because generally speaking, humans have to go through life assuming their view of the
world is correct. Generally speaking, dials, not switches. And so when if we ever have a disagreement, it's because given what you know about the world and how it works and how it operates, you are correct. However, I don't see it from your perspective. And so, I think that you're a [ __ ] >> And so, what we need to do is like merge these two worlds together, which is essentially influence, right? And so, what I was talking about
with Malik is that, and we posted a real about this that did well, is humans don't go through life only forming their beliefs based off of evidence. So, like, and I talked about how like if you go to our landing page, there's so many [ __ ] testimonials for with you that logically it you're kind of stupid if you don't do it. But people don't form their beliefs just based off like these testimonials. They look at every they go through like their [ __ ] childhood
trauma. They think about a course they bought in 2017 that was a scam. They see that I drive a super car. I go, "Supcars are what scammers drive." So they just do pattern recognition which is essentially just [ __ ] core celer bro racism. They just put two and two together going on a rant now. So they form everything based on like all of this and then like underneath philosophy is like critical thinking but you had to understand like how other people think as well. So like philosoph like Malik's also a debating tutor and a debating coach and all marketing is like I was
saying is is just debating at scale >> and influence and all of the rest.
>> How did I end up here?
We were talking about memes, >> but No, but I get it because if we go back to the overlap, right? I want to figure this one out. I actually care more about what you think if you're a customer because then I need to relate to that. I need to influence that belief. Exactly.
>> But if the overlap happens and the circles are closer together, the influence is easier.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Like you need to again this like like meeting them. If I had to draw what meeting them where they're at looks like, >> it looks like taking that arc and just drawing it there.
>> Yeah, right.
>> Pretty much.
>> Rather than like drawing it further.
>> You need to understand your customers cuz if you don't understand your customers, what the [ __ ] are you doing?
>> Yeah. And we're trying to like we're trying to expand this. Okay. So, let's pretend you're you're a prospect and I'm trying to advertise to you. I need to >> maximize this middle real estate as much as I possibly can. I need to understand your view of the world. But I need to understand your view of me. I need to understand your view of the industry.
And I just need to [ __ ] repeat back to you this middle section.
>> Different ways, different analogies, different anecdotes, different pain points, all of these things.
>> Yeah. And then sometimes all it takes is just one point over here that they don't agree with for them to go, "No, not doing it." >> And that's fine.
>> That's okay. Not everybody's going to go yes with it. And not everybody wants the done with you thing. They want it done for you.
>> Yeah. You don't do that >> because eventually like what's going to happen actually this this is a good side tangent, right? So every like let's pretend this bell curve is like all of your customers, right? These people are like super super hot. Like they already know like they're essentially the the equivalent to like this in the funnel, right? Is like these people here. You have people that are like two standard deviations above like median intent, right? But 66% of people is it 66? It's like 66.6.
66% of people >> two heads.
>> Yeah. Sit like one standard deviation left or right of average. Right. And then you have these people down here.
They're just [ __ ] never going to buy ever. Now, when you first start advertising, you're going to be advertising to these people here. That's why like the first couple leads you get in, they're super cheap. They're super super hot. Like they're just [ __ ] they're layup deals. And then the algorithm will start pushing it to colder and colder audiences. So essentially going up the funnel and you had to meet them where they're at, right? So if someone is over here, they are less than interested, less than average interest. We had to think like what are all the things that are going through their head? Well, for one,
they're not going to go to very much physical or psychological resistance to talk themselves into it because their view of the world is they are correct.
They have a very different view of the world to these people. And so you can't run the same ads to these people as you do for the these people are the ads that are like, "Are you a male aged 18 to 24 in the South Perth area that wants to lose 12 kilos in 12 weeks?" They're like, "Yeah, that's me." And then it goes to them. If you show that ad to these people, they were like, "No, not [ __ ] me." These people need to see something different. They need to see something like, "Do you [ __ ] wake up in the morning and see your your what do they call it? Uh like a like a trady gut." They go, "Oh, yeah. I'm
experiencing that." And then what we're doing in marketing is we're slowly like step by step pulling them >> the Now if they're slightly different zones like the tradey in the morning or the 18year-old >> Yeah.
>> Um if you run two ads, one's catered to them and one's catered to them.
>> Mhm.
>> Do you run the risk of them seeing the other ad?
>> Yeah, that'll definitely happen. But Androme is pretty good at like matching the right ads with the right people.
>> This is also, now that I'm just doing this out, this wasn't planned, by the way. This is also basically the same as like a buyer readiness scale. So like zero is like don't know I have the problem, don't know I have the solution, don't know who you are, don't [ __ ] care. 10 is like a customer. It's like yeah of the two what are you leaning towards Visa Masterard or you rack up points, right?
>> And so all we're doing in our advertising is like what do I need to see if you're a [ __ ] three out of 10 here? What do you need? What's your viewer to three? And what do I need to tell you and communicate to you to get you to a four, to get you to a five?
>> And how do you get that data from the three?
>> What do you mean?
>> Like how do you get the how do you begin to farm the data to >> uh to see like what they're thinking?
It's just running [ __ ] loads of different tests.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> and that's that's the game.
>> Yeah, that's the game. You're just running you're running a bunch of little bets.
>> So like >> when me and Aiden were filming, >> what last week? Aiden, we were filming.
We filmed like maybe a dozen ads or something like that. All we did was just like for the couple days beforehand. We were just thinking, all right, everyone has seen our ads a lot, but I can't just keep talking about relying on word of mouth agency exodus. Like, they've seen all of that, right? There's something that these people haven't seen to push them like, [ __ ] it, maybe brand's wrong.
Is is it worth uh in ter in terms of comparison, isn't it worth focusing more on the hot style of content for the hot leads that haven't maybe seen you yet versus trying to figure out the threes and converting them?
>> You do a mix anyway. Like you like when you have like you can have a maximum of 50 ads in your adset. Um, and sure you can and I do send like more skeptical ads and testimonials to the hotter leads >> like people that I know have engaged with me on Facebook, Instagram, hit a pixel or something like that.
>> Yeah.
>> And then the big advantage plus broader audiences is just like [ __ ] it. Here's 50 ads and just let Andromeda figure it out. If you like to save your seat for a workshop, there'll be some links in the description. One of the most valuable things that a lot of our members say is not just the workshop. Actually, we just got a Google review mentioning this like an hour ago. I got the notification on my phone saying the 2-day workshop was good, but what was really overwhelming was the 6 months of support that they got afterwards and just how much support there is. Because we have so many team members covering so many [ __ ] callers, you often can't go more than [ __ ] 90 minutes without being able to
talk to one of us directly on Zoom. One of the benefits to Zoom is you can we can request to remote control your mouse and you can see us like optimize your ad accounts for you and go through that process. And so if you want that level of support, there'll be some links in the description.
>> Oh, that's the other thing. So looping back to this but people's view of the world have to be right. So you have to say something that they agree with. I mean again Dance which is arguing can work as well but you need to repeat back to them something back to them which they know is true. So for example the ad that we filmed the other day that's doing really really well. It's like you've been sitting on the fence for [ __ ] months, haven't you? Some of you have been sitting on the fence for this for years. And then people are like yeah [ __ ] it. You're right.
and then they're like, "All right, I agree with you on that one." And so it's like a microaggreement. It's very similar to um you ever been to like one of those like free seminars, those free business seminars, and you'll notice what the what the presenter does is is before they ask for the big ask at the end for like their [ __ ] $10,000.
>> They get you on a a round of yeses over and over and over.
>> Yeah. They do like all these like microaggments. So they'll get I do it in webinars, like I get people to put stuff in the chat. I get people to raise their hand. And so it's all these like micro compliances that just add up. And advertising is very much like the same thing. Like I'm getting you to click this ad and then I'm just I'm not even asking for your contact details. I'm saying like which best describes you and then like what industry are you in? And then like revenue. It's like oh just name and then I'll just email and now phone number and we book a time now and now I need you to show up for the call
and then even even on the sales call like like what do we do? We don't start with a pitch. We like meet them where they're at like so just tell me about your story situation. what's been happening. And then we and then we dive into that a little bit more. Then we dive into that a little bit more. And then we're just like literally like the entire process from like the ad that they see to like like Visa, Mastercard or you want to rack up some points or an MX. It's just like all these little like micro commitments and all it's doing is just like click click click click.
>> That's the art of it. Click >> and that's the art of going from marketing to sales and back again and then nailing that overlap. essentially getting these two circles to merge into one.
>> Because if you do your marketing right, that three can convert to a 10 by the time they get to your sales call.
>> Yep. Exactly. Okay. So, we talked about hooks.
>> Now, we need to talk about the body. So, the body is is this section here.
>> I think people in my in my humble opinion, which is correct, uh people people put way too much effort into the body. They go like, "Oh, is this the right thing?" Blah blah blah blah.
Again, everything will work to a degree.
There's a couple different formats that you can use. I generally avoid just feature dumping and going, you get this, you get this, you get this, you get this, you get this. I like to focus on a story. And so, I like to be able to tell a story >> because it's real.
>> It's more emotion. It's more emotional, too. Like, >> it's believable.
>> Yep. Like, if we remember the like thinking brain, being brain concept of like thinking fast, thinking slow.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, it's significantly more engaging to just tell someone a story. Whatever whatever testimonials you put in your your ads, I I see them resonating the most because >> you're not talking about yourself, you're talking about a story of someone that you've helped who has gotten results.
>> Yeah, exactly. You can do first person, you do third person. Don't worry about it too much.
>> What about the ones that don't have those testimonials or a story to tell?
>> Oh, yeah. That's fine. You you can still tell a story about like me and where they're at. So like a testimonial is talking about the end result, right? So, if you just don't have a story to tell about the end result, just tell a story about like their [ __ ] morning they woke up, they checked their emails, they didn't have any leads, etc., etc., etc.
Um, that can still work. Again, like DS, not switches, like businesses will work that have zero testimonials.
>> It's just they will definitely work better when they have testimonials.
>> Yeah. And it's just like that first breakthrough point. Don't get discouraged because you don't have any clients yet. you start a business, but once you do have clients and you've done well with them, >> grab their testimonials and repurpose that into this.
>> Yeah. Like our whole business is optimized for getting testimonials.
>> Yeah. And and do you recommend that for every business?
>> Yeah. There's uh the one exception to that though is like if you're a medical business in Australia, you're monitored by this thing called ACPA.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and so you can have reviews and testimonials. It's just very careful language you have to use. Yes. Well, you don't have to because I've had this problem with with medical clients before. They don't have to te use testimonials. They can just do stories.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> Specifically what happened?
>> Yep.
>> But not promise and outcome because that's what you're not allowed to do. So with the body, no. So storytelling, correct? Um is there a way to structure that?
>> Um yeah, just simple beginning, middle, and end. A question. Another question I get asked all the time as well is how long should it be? And it really is like a how long is a piece of string. I used to write really really long ads, but one of the things you kind of had to accept being a member of the human race and trying to advertise to the human race is like the concept of like we're in a number of recessions, but one of them is an attention recession. And so if I have to write lines and lines and lines and
lines of text, generally speaking, most people won't read it. And so I want to get as many I want my copy to be kind of succinct. And again, this is an art versus science thing where you can do anything. And like for example, I know there's people that run like two-hour long ads and they and they do really really well and they just like insert CTAs in the middle. And again, like it comes down to your own style. Some people like, I'm not a copywriter. I really like writing copies. It's like great news. Just write short copy. Um or if people are like, yeah, like Sophie
was an English major. I think she prefers writing really really longer copy and like really putting more effort into it. Sure, go for that. But again, I want people to focus on this section here, right? Cuz this is like the 20% that's going to get you the 80% of the results. I'll talk I'll give the AI talk as well. So like people ask, oh, why can't I just get chat GP to make me ad?
Um, you can or like Claude or something like that. But you have to remember that because the way that these LLMs work is you go write me an ad for a plumber and it will write by definition an average ad. So it's not going to it's not going to have like it's not going to have committed language. It's not going to filter for [ __ ] clicks. And so what I like to do is use my [ __ ] pink squishy brain that God gifted me with
rather than Claude. and then write a couple versions of copy that I know do well. Then you can train the LLM on saying hey here's the ads that have done well for me and also this is why because and you talk about you talk about curious versus committed. So you'd say like hey like I made the first sentence say this because I want to achieve this and then you you just train it.
>> You got to put the context in of what is above average.
>> Y >> if you want to automate it.
>> Yeah. Otherwise it's just going to regress to the [ __ ] mean.
>> That's a big one.
>> Yeah. Honestly though, like if you practice this enough yourself, you don't need AI.
>> Yeah. Honestly, I am a busy person and I still just [ __ ] ride on my ass.
>> Yeah.
>> Um because the other thing as well is a lot of your winners come from random experimentation.
And so again, if you tr Okay, so let's say let's say this is your ad copy, right? And then you go, "Write me an ad for a plumber." And then it writes like a dead average one. And they go, "No, no, no. This is what like good plumber ads look like." And then you shift the bell curve to the right. Well, now what's going to happen is it's just going to write around what you've already trained it. But sometimes the magic is in like if we add a third dimension to this [ __ ] bell curve,
like these random experiments over here.
>> I know what you're trying to say. So, it's not going to be a it's still going to be an average of best based on what you've given it.
>> It's not going to be unique and innovative.
>> Let's say the ads you train it on are like here.
>> Yeah.
>> It's just going to keep grouping it around there, >> but there's going to be like all this magic over here that it misses and they go, "Oh, [ __ ] That could have done really, really well." >> Right. And so that's why >> I'll just come up with >> in terms of your creativity when it comes to writing your own ads as a busy person.
>> Do you have a routine or moments or how do you get into the zone? Do you have any advice on that?
>> Do sugar-free V's and then like one massive [ __ ] cigar. No.
>> And are you do you do you normally write ads? I mean this is different to everybody, but >> are you better creatively in the morning, the afternoon?
>> Yeah, morning. I usually do them in the morning. Um, >> this is why we film in the morning.
>> Yeah. There's this stat which I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly. I hope it is because I've been telling everyone it is. Um, apparently the difference in your cognitive power between first thing in the morning and like like last thing when you leave for leave work is like the equivalent of being legally drunk.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. So I just [ __ ] I do all my heavy mental work in the morning.
>> Yeah. Leave the smooth brain stuff to later.
>> Yeah. like I generally will just do lowlevel admin tasks after lunchtime or something like that and then everything in the leadup is just like ad copy. Um there's some other workflows as well like I'll I'll show what it actually looks like when I make your ads but generally speaking I start with what's the video and then I will write around that video. So that's where potentially someone if they're completely stuck
>> could use AI to template.
>> Yeah.
>> The the essence of that and then when they get into the creative flow, that's when they get the creative stuff. It's like when we filmed your 50 videos, >> I had the templates, >> but I was not going to get you to do it word for word.
>> I just asked you the question cuz I knew you were in the zone and just yapped out 50 creatives in 90 minutes.
>> So it's the same thing there. We will have the full experience. I'm going to have two V's and a cigar and we'll [ __ ] do it properly.
>> Very good. Yeah. I'm not going to encourage anyone to smoke it. We'll just make more money.
>> One look cooler.
>> Yeah, sure.
>> That's the body.
>> Sweet.
>> And don't overthink the call to action.
Just [ __ ] click below to learn more.
>> And I just do it. Well, it's the [ __ ] 80%.
>> I'LL DO I'LL DO A question for the call to action. Yeah. Yeah.
>> How much does a call to action need to match what the copy says as a call to action?
>> I can barely I think people massively over complicate their like the ad copy. It's just like >> And is the body the like just like a rewritten version of your story in the video?
>> Yeah, pretty much. Um, and then the other thing as well, like what Soffield would mention in the um, in the workshop when we talk about the call to action is remember you're only selling the next step. Um, right.
So the ad is only trying to get the right person to click and go to the landing page.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So we're not going click below to book your call. We're going just click below to learn more. Click below to start your application. So just the next step. We don't want to overcommit on that call to action. And in terms of having a unique ad every time in terms of the visual creative, >> does that same thing apply to the body of the copy?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Generally speaking, you need to have different body copy. I to be honest, this is a do as I say, not as I do thing, though, cuz I'll get [ __ ] lazy. Like I'll give you an example.
Like I have, >> let's say I have two video ads and they're both about what the advisory calls are like. I just won't be [ __ ] bothered and I'll just use the same copy for those two >> and then I'll have a different two copies variations for another two videos.
>> What if I used AI to repurpose the copy in different ways?
>> Yeah, I do that. I'll just be like, can you just rework slightly?
>> Does meta punish you to use AI for that?
>> No.
>> Cool.
>> That's fine.
>> There you go. Problem solved.
>> But like every now and then you'll get comments from people that are like, "No, use M dashes." So, who [ __ ] cares, bro? Just put the fries in the bag. So talk about video content. The thing with video content I actually had a chat with Ali Abdal two or three weeks ago >> in person.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He was some um course mastermind that I'm in >> and he was he was asking me for well first I was grilling him about YouTube and then he was grilling me about ads.
It was funny cuz the next morning in the workshop we were going around and people were like saying things that they grateful for for other members for sharing and it was like yeah Brandon made me like uh realize I was overthinking how I did my ads. So what he was doing was his uh like one of his team members would like carefully script out this ad and then he'd have this well lit studio which again this is like on brand but he was like really overthinking it and he he was like yeah Brandon told me Brandon just like chugs
two energy drinks hits a cigar then just lets rip in his own words and that's very much like what your approach to content should be because again like circling back to Andromeda we we just want to try lots and lots and lots of different things and so all we want to do is like we remember that customer avatar that we did before all those different points that you wrote down you just want to read the point and then just talk about it and then what we'll do in a moment is we'll actually do that exercise. Now there's a couple other things to consider with the content. So because it's video content uh the first
thing and I'm probably preaching to the choir here talking to you about this is most people as soon as they hit record they just um and they are and they forget how to speak. Now I actually had a speech coach Diana Cooney who helped me through this process and there was a couple core lessons that she taught me.
Number one is movement. Uh Cameron Norworthy, my flow coach, will actually back this up as well. Diana says that an active mind, sorry, an active body is an active mind. And so I generally and most people as well will really struggle just filming out sitting in a chair perfectly still because their brain's just not active. I think it links back to when we were [ __ ] cavemen, like having to run around and hunt and [ __ ] like that. It's why you generally get your best ideas when you're going for walks and things
like that. So, what I encourage people to do that find themselves freezing up on camera is like walk around. Standing certainly in my experience better than sitting. And you'll notice, you were actually talking about off camera before, like as soon as I got a whiteboard and a pen, I'm way more extroverted, right? And so, you'll notice in a lot of my ads, I'll be like flicking a pen around. Uh, if you're sitting at a desk, Cameron said even just moving things around at the desk kind of trigger the same thing. You just see me [ __ ] around with nunchucks and stuff like that. So, just try and find a
way to incorporate physical movement into filming the ads.
>> Yeah, it's it's a more of a dynamic thing than a static thing cuz people don't want to see photo ads anymore.
They want to see video. But if it's static framed video, they want to see more cardians or movement and that's the dynamic part. But then when you are just standing there, >> you also need to be dynamic. That's what you're saying. The other thing as well is usually people they'll they'll tense up um when they're filming. So I I flew to I think Melbourne to do a day day or two of this business. Filming the ads was like the most [ __ ] painful thing for them. And you could watch in their body language. Like they they'd stand in
front of the camera like a [ __ ] robot and then stand like this and they just tense up. And so like if you do it now like tense up your whole body now just try and speak.
>> Yeah. It's a bit awkward.
>> Yeah. Right. Because and Diana taught me this like the body informs the voice, >> right? So if you're super relaxed, it was so funny like we so I did a 10e one-on-one program with her and then I think six or seven weeks in I was having dinner with Jackson and he was like, "So how's the voice coaching going?" I was like, "Well, it's week seven. Um, I've been standing wrong my whole life. I've been breathing wrong my whole life. We're talking through childhood trauma that I've repressed for
[ __ ] a decade. And we haven't talked about filler words yet. We haven't even talked about ums or rs or trying to find more clever intellectual phrases to replace my filler words with. And Jackson said, "Yeah, I've notice like your you make eye contact with me now.
You didn't used to do that before." It was really interesting. Like >> she unpacked your autism.
>> Yeah, pretty much. And I actually I brought that up because do you remember we filmed in your studio a couple times, but I used I used to never look down the barrel of the camera and I' I'd overexaggerate.
>> Yeah. It's kind of like you were you were embarrassed or something or there was something.
>> It was shame. It was And now we're going to childhood trauma like 8 hours in this video. But it was like shame around previous experiences that I'd had. And so she like reframed all of this and again like it just made me more relaxed.
It was actually quite funny. The first thing she got me to do before we started working together. She gave me an assignment like we talked about how we're going to start working together in like a week or two. She goes the only thing I want you to do for the next week is I just want you to notice u when you have and she referred to it as useless tension in the body. So whenever you're okay they're doing my calf right now. My calf doesn't need to be tight. I'm like perfectly supported. Right. Another really common one that I had, I think it's why my traps are larger than usual,
is like my I used to be like this all the [ __ ] time. Another one was just throughout the day my jaw would be clenched.
>> Yeah. It's a big one for me.
>> Yeah. And so like all of these tensions, they're like little like it's like death by a thousand cuts. And so it's like all these little tensions that add up that inform the voice to just be a little bit more stressed, right? And so what she got me to do was so funny. I was like, "Well, I've been standing when we were [ __ ] I did it again then." So, like my glutes were activated. They didn't need to be activated. It just like standing correctly that like if you stand perfectly, you should be able to stand there with like no tension and stuff like that and breathing correctly.
>> And how does that respond to when you're creating >> you find a flow state more easily, you speak with more confidence. You won't speak as like robotic and agitated.
>> You're not in a fight or flight mode sort of feeling.
>> Yeah. Exactly. The other thing with content as well, and this is getting more into the meta kind of spiritual side of things, honestly, is humans don't just listen to the words you say.
They read all the little micro expressions. You can tell when someone's reading off a script, can't you?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah. Because it's just it comes off a little bit too perfect. And I've had this conversation with so many different marketers about my ads specifically and why they do as well as they do. And everyone like every single conversation has always looped back to the authenticity and the emotion >> because you do it every day non-stop off camera and you just translate that to on camera.
>> Exactly.
>> That's what every business owner needs to do.
>> Yeah. Like and people can pick up when people are faking emotions as well.
People are pretty poor actors generally speaking. Yeah.
>> And so when people try and recreate my camera, people cook them in the comments cuz they're like, "Oh, does Timmy wear you or something, right?" So the the emotion has to be real and I've tried it as well. Like I've tried to Okay, so we talked about the rule of one, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Um and how you look at the rule of one to find like what what's what's a winning ad. I'll look at my ads and go, "All right, seems like me being pissed off is the winning emotion." I'll try and be pissed off in the ad. I'm like, "This doesn't work." >> No, you got to get into that zone. And and I remember you saying you identified a moment where you were most pissed off.
Uh and then you would film the ads straight after that. What was that moment for you?
>> Yeah, we'd do it like the last day before I went on holiday.
>> Oh, yeah. So, like we we'd always like back when my ads were pretty much always pissed off, we'd deliberately the team would know what my last day was um before I went on holiday, everyone would work from home when we had a smaller office and I'd just be alone in the office just swearing at a camera and those ads were just [ __ ] cool.
>> Yeah. Or like when we would record a set of my ads last year, >> the first few ads we were like, "Yeah, cool. That'll work." And then we just got into a flow state. Mhm.
>> We were just going, "Oh, I've got another one. I got another one. I got another one." There was no scripts at all. And you got to record those. Like, let the camera roll. Just go for it. If you stutter, [ __ ] it. Keep going. And just 30 minutes of yap. Yeah.
>> Cut it up. Do a clap sync in between and then go for it.
>> Yeah. Like that's what I always tell people to batch their ads cuz sometimes people like, "Oh, I'll just film an ad every day for the next 30 days." I'm like, "Do whatever you want." But like that's probably the least efficient way.
Yeah. Because if you have this, let's say this is time, this is start and this is finish.
>> There's always this wastage at the start where you're like setting up the camera trying to find a flow state. You arm you are the first couple takes of [ __ ] and you get like one piece of content out.
And then you're like, "All right, sweet.
We're done for today. Let's do that again tomorrow." And then tomorrow you start, there's this little bit of wastage. You arm you are the first couple takes don't work. And then you're like, "All right, got the second piece of content. Great work. See you tomorrow. Whereas if you batch it, you'll start filming, you'll arm, you are there's this little bit of wastage and then you got one piece of content and then you get a second piece of content and the third and then there's there's still that wastage at the start, but rather than getting one piece of content out and then repeating that wastage the next day, you get like
[ __ ] 15.
>> It's reps. It's reps for endurance. And if you do five different takes, >> you can choose between one of those takes. Generally, I like the last take and when I get really excited, that's where I'm like, I nailed this in under a minute. There was no stuttering, no arms and no Rs. That'll still happen.
>> But under that one minute, get >> the other the other >> and just follow the structure.
>> Yeah. The other belief you had to let go of as well is that you need to one take all of your ads. And so what I do in the workshops, I used to do this in the workshops, but now someone else presents content is someone will write their ad and I'll just like hit record. We start a stopwatch and then we hit record. I go, "All right, what's the first sentence of your ad?" And they'll give me the sentence and I'll just think, "All right, how can I just say that slightly differently?" And then I'll just film that bit. And then we keep running and I
go, "What's the next? Give me the next two or three sentences." They'll read it. I go, "How can I just say that again in my own words?" I'll just do it. Next.
I armed. Keep recording. Do it again.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Same thing. Do it again. And until we get to the click below to learn more, right? And then let's say these these full lines, not the dotted lines, are like your takes. You just [ __ ] delete that. You just delete that.
>> Yeah. Just the editing part like and I've had people record their first one.
It took 5 minutes and they're like [ __ ] >> And then we edited it and 30 seconds.
Yeah. punch ins and outs and they feel like an expert.
>> And that's that wastage as well, right?
But that wastage gets eliminated. Yeah.
You just [ __ ] go into a cut.
>> That's it.
>> Um, there was something else I was going to say as well. So, a couple other things when it comes to the video content is the what you want to do is I call it the one frame test.
So, it's very similar to uh like the hook. So, if you like your video is going to be like I don't know [ __ ] 50 seconds long. If you just took a screenshot of the first frame, what's everything that goes through your head when you see that first frame? So, for example, remember how one of the very first activities we did when we first started filming this video was I showed you different pieces of art and I go just based off this give me a rating scale of 1 to 10 and all these different things came out like, oh, you're
familiar with this or blah blah blah blah blah. And so, couple things is like one how you dress. Like I get comments all the time that I look too laid-back, but that's kind of the fact that I'm trying to achieve. But then there's other things you can do. So remember how we talked about with the landing page, the background does is like a super underutilized piece of real estate. It's the same thing in the video. So like if you're just filming against a black wall, sure it will work to a degree, but what would be significantly more impactful is like, well, what can we
place in the background? There's a couple different things. One are the team members, right? Right? So if they're sitting at a desk working and you just had that you go, "Ah, business owner talking. He's at least big enough to have team members, right?" Or like the other one I do is like my workshops.
So I have like customers in the background and stuff like that. You'll see people the most overused one is people put their [ __ ] ClickFunnels to coma club award in the background and [ __ ] like that, right? To try and build credibility.
>> Yeah. Some flag or some >> Yeah. Another one you can do as well actually. All right. So let's say this is me. However, let's say we do a new frame test. Now, it's an ad about the with you program, except now new character just dropped. It's a testimonial from someone that is not branded from just that frame alone. Now, we like the the credibility that Brand has built, the authority. We can't immediately put together that it's his offer because it's just this new
character that's dropped. So what Aiden does when we film, when we edit our ads, is so that we can still utilize this recognizable.
>> So leverage you.
>> Yep.
>> He'll do a split screen for the first 3 seconds where the new characters at the top and there's just like me at the bottom presenting >> at a workshop.
>> Yep. So from that one frame alone, they can see me. They go, "Oh, I know this person." And then they put two and two together, "Oh, that person must be talking about him." >> Yeah.
>> Right. just from that one frame. Make sense?
>> Yeah.
>> What about when you do ads that are geographically located because I want to do a workshop in Melbourne or Perth or >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, they're an easy one.
Very similar to this first frame test, right? Uh geographical, I call it geographical affinity. It's just a [ __ ] word I made up. But one of the most common ways to build rapport with people is just, oh, you're from that town. I'm from that town. It's why people talk about in sales calls all the time. Like if Tim's on a sales call with someone in CRA, which is some [ __ ] tiny town in the middle of her capital city, they'll be like, "Oh, I like I'm CRA as well." Like she will close them like every [ __ ] time, right? And so what
we can do is let's say you're a brick and mortar business, you want to try and find ways to like in the background. So like if this is your first frame, you want to have in the background like recognizable landmarks.
So I say like this is a [ __ ] Mackers sign or something like that and it's on a main road. So like if we ever have a business in or they're like I'm a local gym. One of the first questions I ask is are you near any main roads? Nine times out of 10 they are. Okay cool. Like are there any like recognizable landmarks like like a [ __ ] Mackers or something like that? And they're like oh yeah for sure like just film in front of that one. And so one of my ads and a you can clip it in was back when we had our office on Adelaide Terrace and I had the
big [ __ ] off sign. The opening line was >> if you're a service-based business owner in Perth, you ever driven down Adelaide Terrace and see my logo up there that looks like a drunk text message you would send your friend in a nightclub.
That was the opening hook and I just showed it to obviously people in Perth and so they go ah there's a couple things that are achieved in that first or three seconds because well even the first frame is one Brandon and his company are big enough to have an office in the city. Two pretty hard to fake a [ __ ] sign on the people thought it was fake too.
But again, >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, people like again their view of the world has to be correct and so they'll just like >> defy logic to try and [ __ ] >> defy logic of your lack of customers.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that that that's geographical affinity. So trying to find because it's very difficult to relate to the interior of your business. It's just this new environment that they can't see. Whereas if they see like, oh, I drive down that road on the way to work or on the way back from work or when I drop off the kids at school, there's that geographical affinity. Those ads will rip like every [ __ ] time.
>> How do you use the comments in your ads as an advantage?
>> Well, one question I get asked a lot, like I'm getting a lot of negative comments on my ads. Should I delete them or should I turn the ad off? Um, funnily enough, in my experience, the ads that I have that do the best, and also this has been true for industry set, the ads with the most negative comments are generally the best performing ads, or at least one of the best performing ads. Now, don't interpret that as you want to actively try and get people to negatively
comment, but I now use it as a marker to know when I've triggered someone's like thinking fast brain significantly better. And it's kind of honestly a little bit of a flip of a coin as to whether they go really positive with their emotions or really negative with their emotions. Like I'll give you a perfect example. So, like Jackson was like, "Oh, we need to stop running this ad cuz people are commenting [ __ ] on it." And I looked at it and I was like, "Dude, this is literally our this is
propping up the business right now.
Like, I'm not turning this ad off." Like, you've got to detach your emotions from the numbers in your ad account and look at like, "All right, I'm getting all these negative comments. I feel bad." But look at the ad account and go, "All good. Still the Federal Reserve." >> So, if the ad's making more money, let it rip.
>> Yeah. I don't >> go back to the basics.
>> Yeah. The other thing as well, and this is more kind of a mindset thing, is you got to think like generally speaking, when someone's just like leaving a negative comment, they don't think about it later that day. They just like left it like they're not sitting there festering thinking about your ad like that afternoon.
>> I will fester and think about your ad for 17 hours and then cook you in my own ad the next day. Me and were just talking about that this morning. Someone rubbed me the wrong way to comment and I thought about it all night. I'm going to do a careerending mog on this guy.
>> Nice.
>> But generally speaking, you just leave it there.
>> Yeah. And what about uh like just a [ __ ] ton of hate comments? Do you just batch them all up and put them on another ad and say, >> "Yeah, like I usually use those comments for like more content." >> Like don't waste a good negative comment. You can turn it into like for example, what was that one where the guy was like, "You scam people for a living." And then I just put his comment overlaid on like 50 customers in a row coming up and
thanking me as they left a workshop. And that that ad rips too.
>> How do you handle the balance between an emotional ad and a logical ad?
>> Um, again, experimentation.
So, if you go too emotional, like it will work to a degree. Again, art versus science, dials, not switches. But there's certain people that will go, yeah, they they'll kind of see through that and go, yeah, like I I get what you're trying to do here, but like what are you actually going to achieve or what's the outcome? What's the ROI?
However, as a caveat to that, I generally see expressed by the comments, you kind of get what you give in in ads.
So, for example, if you have a very, you know, we talked about thinking fast, thinking slow. If you have a very thinking slow ad, which is just talking about like the nuts and bolts of how you do what you do, it will put people into that brain state. And so, what kind of comments do you think you're going to get? You're going to get, oh, what's the results? What's the cost? Send info, please. You get comments like that. On the flip side, if you have a more emotionally engaging ad, you usually just get people pissed off the comments.
SO, IT'S LIKE IT'S KIND OF THE other thing as well is like the comments generally I mean we're we're kind of an exception because I I'll circle back to that, but like generally speaking when people have a positive experience from your ad, they kind of just like the post and just move on. Every now and then you'll get some [ __ ] legend that's like, "Bro, I love your ads." Or something like that. I get those. But generally speaking, like if someone has a negative experience, they their only option is to leave a negative comment.
There's no like dislike button. And so, but you don't read likes, you read comments. And so they're just generally they're just mostly negative. I get asked by people in our workshop all the time cuz I spend so much money on ads.
They they're like, "I'm a customer now.
Like, can you stop serving me with ads?" And I say no because the comment section is super underutilized real estate for testimonials. So we'll have like you'll notice like some of our members go to [ __ ] war for us in the comments.
They'll leave like if they're in the ad where a workshop was, they'll comment saying, "Yeah, I was in this workshop. I had a really positive experience." Or like just random ads. They'll just comment and like back us up.
>> When do you scale horizontally? More ad spend more creatives. How do you know?
>> It's a good question and I don't have a very good answer for you to be honest.
It's actually I've never actually thought about that. like when I decide more creatives like when my cost per leads actually yeah when my cost per lead or cost per result starts going up I like all right these ads are probably a bit exhausted and then I'll just try new angles try new reasons u but if I'm happy with my cost per lead my cost per schedule my cost per schedule specifically for me that's when I'll increase spend but if my cost per schedule is creeping up I'm like I need more reasons >> okay and do you have a
dumbed down framework work of going right. This is when we start pushing more money or this is when we start pushing more ads that you can show us here.
>> Not really. I am a do as I say and I'm not a best practice person. Like for example, like you were just here before where Tim was like, you might want to increase ad spend a little bit. So I just added $10,000 a day to the budget because tomorrow looks a little bit light.
>> How do you handle ad fatigue? Like when when you know that it's run its course?
>> Yeah, you just make new ads. Um, you can just refilm the same angle. So like if you're relying on word of mouth ad got exhausted, you can pretty much just film it again just in different words and then it'll be again it'll be like new frame like oh like this is a new thing.
It's the same message.
>> Like I've been talking about relying on word of mouth for [ __ ] six years.
>> Yeah. Go back to like the days of the television where it's the same car being advertised in a different way or another beer ad for cart and draft. Yep.
>> It's the same [ __ ] >> It's the same idea. You just communicated a different way.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh you said before running ads for 30 days, is that generally the runway of how long you should run one creative to see how long it goes for? What if it runs for 7 days and one ad specifically gets just [ __ ] sent to the Nether?
>> Yeah. You'd make a call, right? So again, this is kind of jumping into optimizations like but I I'll touch on it briefly now. So, let's say, for example, because you're just constantly doing math. Let's say we got a campaign.
We got this one ad set, and then we've got like a couple different ads.
>> Mhm.
>> Um, let's say our average cost per lead is $100. So, between all of these ads, this one has a cost per lead of $100.
Let's say this ad one, it has one lead for $250.
Do you think you should turn that one off?
>> Uh, it depends on the cost of the lead in terms of like your packages, I guess.
>> Well, let's say all these ads down here, this one got like five leads for 100.
This one got six leads for like 80. This one got four leads for like um or even like seven leads for 120.
How do you feel about this ad now?
>> Better.
>> You think Binner? Yeah, cuz then that 250 can better be spent on those better performing ones, right?
>> What if later this day this ad now got two leads?
>> Uh then I would say depends on how long it's been running for, right?
>> Because if this got if it got one lead at $250 in spend and then just later that day it got another lead, well now the cost per lead is 125.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Which is just slightly above this one. And then it might get to like $350 spend the next day and get three leads which would be like $115 or something like what I mean. So >> So but but if it's three leads at $15 does that means seven leads at $120 or 7 into 12?
>> Well, it just might not have figured it [ __ ] out yet, >> right? It just took $250. It let's say it got like a lead at like $150 >> and then it spent another $100 and didn't get any leads and then it just suddenly hit. Well, now the cost per lead cut in half. Yeah. Like it's usually like until it gets a couple leads, but then you can go, "All right, what if it what if that didn't happen and you got so it was like one lead for 250 and then it got to like $350 and still
only one lead and then like $400 and still only one lead, right? It's like here's where you start like stressing out because like all right well if it cuts in half an hour it's still $200 right because when it's at one lead that's where people get the most hesitant >> because like it's just going the price is just going up but they only see one lead but it just takes one more lead for it to cut in half.
>> Yeah. I'm playing a game at the cash.
I've lost the money. I double my bet to get it back. N triple my bet. No.
>> Yeah. It's like it's like you just only way out of a hole is to keep [ __ ] digging, bro. So, there's only winners and quitters at the cast.
>> There's a limit.
>> Yeah.
>> Um Okay, cool.
>> Yeah. It's just like how much of a [ __ ] do you want to be? Or do you want to put the [ __ ] house and the kids on the line on this one?
>> Mhm.
>> How do you write a CTA that doesn't feel pushy?
>> Um well, yeah. So, remember this curious versus committed scale.
>> Mhm.
>> So, like if this is a zero, this is a 10, like this is boy. before that's probably like book. Before that's probably like inquire for that like remember you're only ever selling like the next step. So that's why I generally just go click below to learn more. Like I'm not saying click below to book your appointment. I'm not going click below to make your inquiry.
>> Like the ad is just trying to get them to click.
>> Yeah.
>> The first step of the two-step funnel is just trying to get them to start their application. The booking page is just trying to get them to book. N sequence is trying to get them to show.
>> Yeah. So more rule of thumb as you say more of a clicking language instead of any other commitment.
>> Yeah. You're only ever trying to sell the next step.
>> Yeah. And that the language becomes closer to buy the closer they are to the buy.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Well, that's a sales conversation.
>> What are the most common mistakes you see beginners make in meta copy and ads?
>> Oh, curious versus committed for sure.
That's the main thing. Like that happens literally [ __ ] every time. Even in the workshops where I'm like, "Hey, just by the way, you're all gonna [ __ ] this up at the start." And they know to go, "Yes, Brandon." And then [ __ ] don't listen. They do it anyway. Um, but like that's probably the most common one is using very curious language instead of committed language. So what will happen right is they'll go through this life cycle where okay so the first this is exactly what happens in like the with you workshops and I I explain this the
morning of day two and I get them to write it down so that they go cuz being a business owner pretty much all you're trying to do is like predict the future like all the time and so the morning of day two I go here I'm [ __ ] Marty McFly just come back with winning lottery tickets this is exactly what's going to happen in the room for like 95% of you like first thing that will happen is you go ah sweet my ads turned on and like traffic will go up, right? You'll be like, "Oh, I'm getting all of these clicks to my landing page, but they'll
be unhappy with the quantity of leads, right? And then they'll like come to the advisory call. I think like [ __ ] 15 today or something like that." And then like nine times out of 10, it's like, "Yeah, you didn't do the committed thing that we told you to [ __ ] do like for half an hour, right?" And so then we'll change the language in the first sentence of the ad. and then lead quantity will go up. Then what will happen is they'll go ah I'm getting leads but like my lead quality is really
poor or like I'm just the the show rate is really really poor. So then they come to the advisory calls and then what was um we talked about like filtering for [ __ ] clicks, right? So like that stuff.
Then we'll get them to do that again even though we already [ __ ] taught them like day one. Then lead quality will go up, right? When lead quantity goes up and lead quality goes up, sales just naturally goes up. But it all starts with the ve very first sentence of the ad. Like they just kind of fumble that one a little bit.
>> How do you apply the rule of one >> when writing copy for a service-based business with multiple offerings?
>> Oh, great. Yeah. Then your idea, that's where you swap out the promise, right?
So like or or the idea as well. That that leads to another question though which is like following the rule of one.
Eventually you get into this like and I'm going to try not to get the [ __ ] philosophy of categories because that's that's like a whole branch of philos like how do you categorize things? You want to you want to put things into the like buckets. That's where you start with the landing page. Okay. So I'll give a practical example. So let's say for example you're a garage door company. Well, if I click an ad for garage door installations, it would be better if I go to a landing page that is about garage door installations, not just garage doors.
Likewise, if it if I'm clicking an ad for garage door repairs, I'd like to see that this is about repairs on the headline of the ad or the headline of the landing page. And so, that's where like the idea, story, promise, and emotion of your ad should link to the landing page. Some people go too far or at least they want to go too far far and I talk them out of it where they go, "Oh, if I um if all of my if my ad's about relying on word of mouth, should I send them to a relying on word of mouth
landing page?" And if my other ad is like anti- agency, should I send them to like an anti- agency landing page? The correct answer is yeah, you should. But the practical answer in real life when you're a business owner is can't be [ __ ] So make the landing page broad enough that it speaks to all of your ideas. So like the idea of like the with your landing page is like you'll generate leads
yourself. Whether it's about you've been relying on word of mouth, whether it's you've been burnt by an agency, whether it's you hate posting organic content, whether it's you hate sending DMs, everything falls under that. So like for example, like this is the big idea like we'll talk about with the philosophy example and stuff like that. Everything sits within it. So these are all your ads. They need to sit under that same idea.
>> How do you decide between a video ad and a static like photo, image, textbased ad?
>> Oh yeah. So I generally always lean on video ads. The reason for that is video is more engaging. It has a higher link clickthrough rate, better quality lead because it builds more trust as well.
And kind of my superpower on the internet is I'm just attention seeking on the internet. So I'm good with that.
I play mushrooms. Um, images are great if you want to pump out heaps of them and get volume. Now, I actually use them to test ideas when on the odd occasion that I do use them. So, what I'll do, and I actually learned this from um I actually came up with this idea. So, what I actually did was um do you know about my journaling app?
>> Yeah. So, not many people know this. I I don't know if it's still live or not.
>> I was thinking about this actually.
Yeah. So, I made this, well, I didn't make it to be clear. My friend Michael Bell made it called journal thingy.app.
And I just wanted this journaling app because I just didn't like any of the journaling apps that are out at the moment. And I said, "Wait, before you write a single line of code, let's just validate this idea to see if anyone wants it." And so what I did first was I went on my Instagram story and I said, "Hey, if you've been trying to build the habit of journaling, but I haven't been able to build the habit and do it consistently, can you just message me why?" I got like dozens of responses.
Then what I did is I All right, so that's the feedback. So that's again, that's what's going through their head, right? I haven't it's on the other side, but that's what's going through their head. So I got stuff like I'm staring down at a blank page. Just variations of that. That was the general idea. Like I don't I don't know whether they're [ __ ] right. And so what I did was quickly made the Facebook page. I made a landing page on web flow. I just bought a template. And by the way, another do as I say, not as I do thing. It was a template that had like, you know, the
Lauram Ipsum text.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Like text filler.
>> Literally everything else on the page was Lauram Ipsson. The only thing I changed was the headline. and I made the headline, "Are you staring down at a blank page and don't know what to write?" Something like that. Then what I did was I just went on Canva and I just made a bunch of graphics with like a purple, random purple that I selected as our brand color and I just put what people said in my messages as like quotes. And so it was like I stare down at a blank page
and I don't know what to write. Like I tried journaling but like blah blah blah blah blah. I tried this and blah blah blah blah blah and I just made them quotes. And when you think about it, all these quotes are just like different like towards and away from motivators and also things I tried in the past like that was one, that was one, that was something else. And then I just ran a lead genen ad to send traffic to this.
And then if they completed it, it just took them to like a wait list and said, "Hey, like it's not done yet. We'll let you know when it's done." And then I could see, oh, like this ad did really, really well, right? I should make ads about I stared down at a blank page and I don't know what to write. This ad did pretty well as well. Like it talked about whatever the [ __ ] it was.
>> So then you can convert them into videos.
>> Yeah, exactly. And so then you take the idea from this and you go, "All right, let's do do that or let's kind of dig around that area." >> It's like a pre pre-ordering pre-launch sort of phase.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. And then you you dig around like this is the interesting thing with the idea is you dig around it. So if let's say this is the ground and you have an oil well. I don't know how to draw an oil well but we're digging into the ground now. You have a couple of these [ __ ] oil wells and you're just farming the earth and you're, man, there's a [ __ ] massive oil well over here, right? And this [ __ ]
all here. Well, you go, all right, this one was pretty close. Should we just [ __ ] dig over here? Should we just dig over here? Should we just dig over here? Like, [ __ ] This [ __ ] clearly didn't work. We just go, "All right, so what's close to the idea of all right, this is relying on word of mouth. What's close to referrals is pretty close to it, right? Or like uh cold calling. That's pretty close to it." And you just dig around these ideas. Now that we've got a
couple ad ideas, we need to film ads with Sev. So, we're going to go through that process so you can watch the process I put people through to get them to film ads easier that also convert.
This is what I want you to do. I'm gonna give you first I'm going to give you like the idea for the ad.
>> Yeah.
>> The only thing I want you to think about is the committed language in the first sentence that you say. So let's say for example the idea is they have camera confidence or they lack camera confidence.
>> They lack camera confidence. Okay.
>> Yeah. So how could you use committed language to talk about the idea of camera confidence?
>> After two days with me the camera confidence of all of my >> Perfect. That that's that's an easy example, right? Or like the one that I gave before, which was uh I can't quite remember it, but it's like >> after our two days, camera confidence will no longer prevent you from getting ads. Right?
>> After you think about that first sentence, I don't even really want you to think about what you're going to say after that.
>> The the basic framework that I have for filming ads is stop the right person from scrolling. So, if you watch me film ads, generally speaking, I just spend 5 seconds thinking of the first sentence that I'm going to say and then I just elaborate on that point. So the second point after stop the right person from scrolling is I call like prove your point or another way to think about it is just elaborate. And so simply put like you've been speaking English your entire life. Just given what I just [ __ ] said, what should what should I talk about next? So like if you're talking about camera confidence, don't
just start talking about [ __ ] cars or something like that. That's [ __ ] Just talk about like how camera confidence impacts their business. Or you could talk about how camera confidence uh is solved in the workshop.
doesn't matter.
And again, we're just doing all these random experiments and then we'll find out later what worked and then we can just replicate what worked >> and then all I want you to do is just elaborate on your point for like 30 seconds. Don't don't time yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> And just linguistically find a way to logically land at like click below to learn more.
>> Yeah.
>> So again, stop the right person from scrolling. I'm going to give you the idea. Just try and embed committed language.
>> Just elaborate on that point. So, just keep talking and then just find a way to clip below to learn more.
>> Yeah. All right.
>> Cool. So, the first one is about camera anxiety. They don't know what to say on camera to get leads.
>> Yeah. After two days of working with me, this person who has camera anxiety and doesn't know what to do to get the leads for their business becomes Mr. Yapathon.
>> This is the point.
>> So, you can just pause here.
>> I can hate scripting [ __ ] So, so you can just pause here and go, "Well, how does that work?" N >> how does that work? Okay. How does that work? How does that work? We're not going to talk about the specific things inside the workshop.
>> Okay.
>> In the workshop, we give you exposure therapy. The exposure therapy makes you hate it for a second and then all of a sudden you realize, oh, it's actually not that bad because, oh, yapping with what I know gets me more customers. And that's what we go through in the two days. If you want to be in the workshop with those two days to get your camera confidence, click the link below.
Awesome.
>> Yeah. Banger. So, the thing you did really, really well in that first sentence was you mentioned like two-day workshop. You also mentioned generating leads, which is the outcome that you want. So, you did two things that we talked about before, which was like the committed language. So, like now I know it's an event, now I know it's a workshop. So, I expect that on the landing page. And you also said generating leads, which is specifically a service-based business owner probably.
So, this ad will probably do a decent job of getting service based business owners, not e-commerce drop shipping talks.
>> Cool.
>> Uh, the next one, it's going to be adjacent to that, but I want you to talk about the fear of judgment that comes with camera anxiety.
>> Yeah. After two days, the fear of judgment in front of the camera has been lifted. This person went to not knowing what to say because people will judge to yapping everything they know and everything they love about what they do and what they have to offer to their customers. What did that bring them?
More leads. If you want to do the same thing from this fear of judgment and not know what to say to this talking about what you know best, click the link below, join the workshop, and uh let's make fun.
Click the link below and let's have fun.
>> Cool. Do that again. I just want you to redo the intro cuz it took you like a little bit longer than I would have liked for you to mention getting leads.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. After two days of working with me, the fear of judgment in front of the camera was lifted. What that led to was more leads because you're yapping a lot. And that yappathon creates trust and authenticity which then brings those customers in for more sales. If you want to work with me and get amongst it to go from unknown to known in your industry because you talk the talk and also walk the walk, click
the link below. See you in the workshop.
>> Banger. Next one is relying on word of mouth.
>> Relying on word of mouth. So probably changed a graphic here. A lot of our students have relied on word of mouth before coming to the workshop to get their leads but they plateaued. So, what we do is we create a digital salesman in your sleep. We cover everything in a two-day workshop to building the systems to being organic and authentic on camera so that by the time you're in bed and having all those content pieces running organically, people are finding you in
their sleep that have never heard of you before. They trust you, they book you, and you get your sales. If you want to know more, click the link below.
>> Do it again. You'll do better the second time. A lot of our students have relied on word of mouth for the last two plus years. And when they've come to us to do this two-day workshop, they've become a digital salesman. But in their sleep, people are sharing, people are referring. Yes, it's word of mouth, but at scale because it's online. If you want to know how to do this, build the systems, build the camera confidence, click the link below.
>> See that was better. See, you just did the second take and then like just cuz the first one you kind of like arm in your eye a little bit. that wastage we were talking about. Correct. The other thing you did well was you changed the committed language to our students. So it implies like an application form on that landing page now makes sense.
>> And then there was something else you said as well. Oh yeah, that's right. You said like for two plus years they've been relying on word of mouth. So that was another decent way of like filtering for [ __ ] clicks.
>> Again, it's going to reduce the number of like I just started my [ __ ] business last week. People that come through.
>> Yeah, >> that's good. Let's do we can do reliant on ad spend. rely on ad spend. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> A ton of our students are sick of donating money to Mark Zuckerberg in their ad spend. They want to lower the costs and still bring in more leads. And that's why we create the organic salesman in your sleep. In our 2-day online workshops, you'll learn how to create a library of organic content that is up everywhere for free perpetually, which means forever. And then from there, the best performing ones can then
be put into ads and the ad spend is improved anyway. So it actually complements this. This is an ad. You go to the channel, you see the organic content that validates everything that I've been saying. That's the point. You learn that in the two-day workshop.
Click the link below.
>> Yeah, that's good. Let's do the same angle, but now instead of talking about reduced ad spend, I want you to go more organic leads. So this is an example of like how we were talking about before.
You can communicate the same idea just from different angles. So more organic leads is the same as less ad spend.
We're just focusing on their brain on more organic leads.
>> More organic leads.
>> Y a ton of our students are using a lot of ad spend to bring in more customers.
We teach them to bring in more organic leads which lowers the ad spend as well.
As a bonus, the organic content then becomes best performing ads anyway. So, the thing snowballs, it's a two-day online workshop. You want to get involved, click the link below.
>> Let's do uh more trust by an extension of that, becoming like an authority in this space.
>> Our students come to our workshops because they're the expert, but nobody knows that they are online. They run ads, but some people still don't believe them, and the ads get expensive. That's why in the 2-day workshop, we cover all bases so you learn how to make the organic content that makes you the authority. Look how happy he is.
Everyone's validated him and trust him.
That could be you. Two-day workshop, go from here to here. Click the link below.
>> I want you to do this one isn't on the board, but just a random Hail Mary shot.
I just wanted you to go straight for the drug and just like explain the workshop and everything that happens. Actually, do you remember the feedback story arc?
The feedback story arc was like you split the business the offer into two pillars and you explain why before each one. Just basically do a feedback story arc in like a minute.
>> These business owners don't have camera confidence, don't have systems in place to create more organic content to build trust in their industry, the authority that they have, but nobody knows or cares about online. This two-day workshop that I run online teach >> Oh, wait. Can you start that again? But the outcome I want you to focus on is generating leads. You did the content, you did the content content creation agencies, they [ __ ] always do this.
They talk about like building authority and build brand, which I know we just did, but I know that the most compelling one is if you chase that outcome downstream, it's like more leads, more profit.
>> So do that again. But like say content to generate leads.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
>> Rather than I got it, I got it. I got it. Cool. you're stuttering on camera trying to make organic content because essentially you just want more leads, right? But you just don't know where to start. You don't have the systems, you don't have the flow, and you just give up. This is what we do in our two-day workshop. We cover all of these bases and have you running them really easily forever. And if you still get stuck, we do the six months of support because I want you to win. I don't want you to
just have viral content and lots of content and say that you're consistent and have clarity. I want you to get more leads and more importantly sales. Who doesn't want more sales? Click the link below if that's you. Now that we've kind of dipped the toe into short form content creation, we need to create a long form piece of content which will be our video sales letter, our VSSL. So we're going to do that now.
>> All right. Sweet. So video sales letters, as you know already, this is going to go at the top of the landing page. It's also going to get sent to them a few times before they actually get to the sales call. And so this is the main piece of marketing material that's trying to support your entire argument. Like we're talking about debating at scale, right? Like this is the core argument. So you want to I generally think that people massively overthink their VSSLs and then they get into this analysis paralysis thing.
Again, like done is better than perfect.
There's a couple key things we want to accept though. So, for one, we're not going to have a 100% viewer retention curve. It's going to look something like that, right? And so, we can't I mean, sure, there's things we can do to fight that, but we just had to accept that we're not going to have 100% view retention curve. So, we can't rely on someone getting to the end of this to consume the most important information, right? So, what we want to do is order
it from most important to least important piece of information. So pretty much what you're saying is a VSSL is just a video version of the landing page for most of the important stuff at the start.
>> Yeah. And also a video version of the sales pitch. So the VSSL gets really really easy once you've like really refined your sales pitch. But again, like we had to start somewhere. Like for example, the original with you VSSL that me and Aiden filmed, I one took the entire thing cuz we knew exactly what our pitch was. So, generally speaking, two things that are going to stay pretty consistent is this first 30 seconds. We want to meet them where they're at. We want to repeat back to them things that
are going through their head, right? So, remember we did the customer avatar like things that moving towards waveform. We just want to like stack pain point pain point and then like a towards motivator.
Again, like does it matter if we do towards or away? Not really. Just whatever resonates the most with the customer. Couple other things we want to do in this 30 seconds as well is also like proof, right? So, there's a couple different ways you can do this. The way that we do it on our VSSL is we have it and you have it like flash up on the screen behind me, don't you? Right.
There's other ways you can do it as well. Like B-roll as well is another really good one. I mean, this is specific to us, but we'll edit in clips of all the different workshops. It reminds me of like when I was working in nightlife. The hardest event to sell was always just the first one because you didn't have any photo or video evidence that people had rocked up to this room that you were promoting. Right. The whole purpose of the first event is just to get warm living bodies in the room so that you can take a bunch of photos and videos and then prove to everyone for
the second one. Look, people came to this first one. Right.
>> Y >> So that's massive social proof. And for B-roll, that is just uh footage that overlays the initial footage of what you're talking about.
>> Yeah, correct. So, you got the A- roll, which would be like me talking to camera, and then if Aiden was to flash up images and videos over this, like that would be the B- roll.
>> Yep.
>> So, we do that and like that's like the first 30 seconds. Now, we want to get into what I call this feedback story arc. So, the feedback story arc. I'm sure there's like other ways people call this, but I kind of came up with this name back in 200 2019.
>> And so, essentially, it's a nonfeatured driven way to explain how you do what you do to the customer.
>> And so, what you do is you split your offer into two core pillars. So, you have pillar one and pillar two. But before explaining those two pillars, you put why before them, right? So if you had to split your business into two core pillars, what would they be? I think we've spoken about it already, but just again, >> yeah, uh online workshop um one-on-one.
>> Cool. And then what's uh the second pillar? Is it like ongoing support?
>> Yeah, ongoing support.
>> This one-on-one workshop is like this unique delivery mechanism, right? So you want to compare it to things that they have done before. So, why is this one-on-one workshop delivery mechanism better than things that have experienced before? And what have they experienced in the past?
>> Yeah. Uh, they've obviously tried someone else done for you.
>> Yeah.
>> They've tried an internal internal marketer, but they were not good enough.
>> Yeah.
>> Or they've tried it themselves DIY and they just don't know what they're doing.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Like all this kind of boils down to they don't know what they don't know.
>> Yeah. What is the good problem that they get as a result of the one-on-one workshop? That means they need the ongoing support.
>> So they will get a system that is internal.
>> Yeah. So that that system needs to be monitored.
>> Yep. System that Yeah. that is built and then needs to be monitored.
>> Yeah. Ongoing feedback, right?
>> Yeah. Ongoing feedback to their content >> cuz now we have numbers to talk about.
So if I was to raw dog your feedback story arc could be something like you do the first 30 seconds and it's like yep like previously what we tried to do is we tried to solve this with like done for you like solutions. A lot of people had tried internal team members but the core problem that all of these avoided was the fact that the business owner didn't know what they didn't know and so they were delegating it and the person they were delegating it to had a completely different opinion. It was like they was just speaking a completely different language. Right? And so the
way that we solve this is we'll we just do one-on-one workshops. Now the reason this is more beneficial than like a done for you agency or getting someone internally is you'll actually be able to wrap your head around this. So if some point in time that it makes sense to delegate to someone else, you can call them out in your [ __ ] You actually have a strategy in place and you can just repeat what already works. You also already know your customer better than everyone else. One of the things is just like this organic social media content thing just come out of nowhere and you don't understand it. So you have this avoidant relationship with it. And so on the one-on-one workshop, we do XYZ and
then you kind of just like feature dump a little bit >> 100%.
>> But you know, now that you've got this system live, you need to monitor the system. Now we actually have numbers as well that we can talk about. Like previous to this, you just like didn't know or you didn't know. You were just throwing stuff out there. You had no idea what to do with the feedback. Now what we need is ongoing feedback. Just like when you have ad spend or you have processes, you have people, you need to look at the feedback, go through, all right, cool. We're going to repeat this successful action. We're not going to do this anymore. And that's why for 6 months after as I continue to work with people so that that they don't just have the system in place but they have the a
welloiled system just like you'll take your car into the mechanic to tune things up make it faster make the exhaust bit flames so it still goes 0 to 102.9 seconds flat and we can continue to improve that process. And so between the two things we had the one-on-one workshop so we can speedrun your understanding and then we have the ongoing support so that you don't just have this system you continue to improve it. Right? So that would be and you'll be able to do that better because the the best thing with a feedback story arc as well is the business owner can always
tell it really really well because they just tell a story of like how the business came about. And so one thing that I generally tell people to avoid when it comes to VSSLs is trying to script it word for word.
>> Yeah. I've tried it myself and I just felt in in ingenuine.
>> Yeah. And people can tell too. So, I learned this from Diana Cooney, who was my voice coach, >> that people will just read micro expressions. And so, you ever like spoken to someone like something's off with this person, like it feels too scripted and like too perfect. It can be the same thing in your VSSL also in your ads as well, when it comes off too perfect, they come off like a news reporter and like a perfectly welllit studio like reading off a teleprompter like San Diego, right? Um whereas it's
all the little ums and rs and I kind of darted around a little bit that made that more human.
>> Yeah, >> it's actually it also makes me think of um I always fall asleep to audio books because they're just reading word for word but podcast cuz there's like a back and a for human >> laughter and stuff.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
>> But it creates authenticity and in a in a world now with AI >> more and more people try to fake it. So it's it may as well go for it. But in terms of structure, the 30 seconds ideally is just y pillar. Y pillar.
>> No, no, no. So that's the feedback. So that's after this. So this 30 seconds here is just >> meet them where they're at.
>> Yeah. Meet them where they're at.
>> Touch. Uh and then what's the bottom on there?
>> Uh that says towards it. Had terrible handwriting. So just repeating so that they know like yep that those are the things that are going through my head.
>> This works because it's got some proof flashing up as well. And then you explain how you do what you do. So feedback story arc is up there.
>> Then the next part is kind of open as like a little bit of a choose your own adventure. So you'd want to think, right, we're constructing this debate.
Well, let's start doing it now. So let's have point A. We're going to have like I don't know, we might have five points in your video. In your video sales letter, you say what the two days consists of and you break it down.
>> And I followed I would follow that in that choose your own adventure.
>> Yeah. because this says like yeah it's a workshop and then it's ongoing support.
So the next argument might be like what do we cover in the two days?
>> Yeah I cover in the two days but then I also would copy so I there's seven modules that we cover in the two days.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh the first four in day one and then the second three in day two and then any catch up any whatever. But when I mention one module, I'll reflect it back to the most likely type of audience I'm trying to appeal to and an example.
>> What do you think of that?
>> Yeah, that's good. Like what the best way to like approach these sections after this is kind of like a Q&A. So like when I've had to film VSSLs with Jackson, he doesn't like reading off of a script either, but also just like doesn't know what to say. So I would sit behind the camera and just say, "Can you just explain like how semester 2 works?" and he goes, "Oh, the way semester 2 works is this, this, this, and then just ask clarifying questions off camera." >> So, what what do we cover in the two days? That would probably be the next section. So, A, and then B would
probably be like elaborating on pillar two, which would be like what kind of what does the support look like? What else would you want them to know before they get to the sales goal?
>> Expectations.
>> Results and outcomes. results and outcomes from the workshop and the support, but also expectations of what we expect them to do and to bring and uh also beyond who who they need to be for this to work. Now, what if they don't get to that part in the video because they've already clocked off and they've already booked a call, but they've missed the point that who this is for is
not actually for them. example, >> I uh adopted your theory of no product based businesses uh initially and people would go, "Oh, I'm a product based business. I don't want to I didn't think it was for me." >> Yeah.
>> In the video, you talked about this.
They're telling me this. In the video, you said you don't do product based businesses, so I didn't want to book in, >> but then the guy literally last week I I he came in and said, "Yep, I'm keen on the workshop." By the way, in your call you said you don't do product based, but he invented the product, >> which is >> Yeah. It's one of those kind of edge cases.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um but Yeah. Anyway, so who this is for if they don't get to that point, does it matter?
>> Yeah. Well, because you're going to put that in your application like disqualifications anyway.
>> Yeah.
>> So like um >> a video of sales letters more for the video.
>> Yeah. Like for example, if the who this is for is like how you got to be able to do the work, you can do the red flag test.
>> Yeah. Cool. And then what about the conclusion? How do we finish off a VSSL?
>> It's just a simple call to action. Like [ __ ] like [ __ ] all people are going to like get to the end of that anyway. I mean like 20% of people might like they know because also like underneath this video it's going to say next step do this like the call to action is going to be like >> once they get the point once their specific question has been answered which is most likely at the start anyway >> cuz the reason they keep watching is we're going from macro cuz they want to everyone wants to see the big idea and then the details are where they start to drop off. So like the viewer behavior is
like if they are like convinced by this, they stop watching and they complete the form or they just stop watching and they go to the call, right?
>> If they watch that, they're like, "Oh, is this just like an online course?" And then you explain like, "What do we cover?" Yeah.
>> Then they go, "Ah, sweet. But okay, the ongoing sport, how does that work?" Then they keep watching.
>> If they're convinced by point B, then they're like, "All right, I'm probably not going to be fucked." And then but if they're like all right but like that sounds good but what kind of results can I get then they keep watching C >> and if they're like well will this work for my industry though then they watch D right so like you you see it's just like one objection after the other objection so there's this kind of again like macro to micro most important to least important if someone's watching generally speaking if someone's watching all the way over here they'll like they're more skeptical
>> right they they want more details like what do you cover in the morning of day one [ __ ] like How often do you update the VSSL?
>> We've had two versions of the with you VSSL about a year apart and I would only update it when there's been like significant improvements to the product.
Um, like for example, we used to have like two or three calls a week. Now we have like two or three before lunch every day.
>> Or like as you get more B-roll footage.
>> Yeah. So more B-roll, more proof of concept.
>> Or like a year of feedback from the sales team. So like if the sales team says okay example so like the sales team says hey like when people find out how many calls there are they enroll way faster and so we had that pretty early on in our video.
>> Okay so the feedback loop is important and drives the evolution of the VSSL.
>> Yep. Okay. Finally, what if you think that your VSSL is the problem?
>> Well again like when you say problem you had to get specific on like what the problem is like you feel like people are not booking you because they're getting to the landing page. Mhm.
>> They're watching the VSSL and then for some reason they clock off.
>> Uh, one thing you can do is you can install Microsoft Clarity.
>> So, Microsoft Clarity is this free uh you you've probably heard of Hot Jar.
It's like that but free and faster.
Imagine being like you pour your heart and soul into your [ __ ] SAS startup and Microsoft makes you a feature.
That's diabolical. But like you can install Microsoft Clarity and see Microsoft Clarity is great for qualitative feedback because you can get quantitative feedback based on like conversion rates, clickthrough rate really easily, but like what do they actually do on the landing page? That's what Microsoft clarity is great for. So if you see they're like watching the VSSL and then bouncing like probably the VSSL's problem then.
>> Excellent, >> right? But if they're just like scrolling around the page and not watching the VSSL, well then maybe you just need to [ __ ] tell them to watch it. Or like I host my VSSL on is it Wistia, Aiden? I don't know why I'm asking you. This is my [ __ ] thing. I use Wistia because um like YouTube's all right, but Wistia you can basically you can choose a section of the video to loop as the thumbnail. And so I just picked a really visually engaging part
that shows like B-roll of the workshops and so our play rates a little bit higher >> wier. Okay, we'll put that in. That's a good tip. Now the other thing as well with uh that first section or the most engaging section of the video, would you put more content, more B-roll, more animations, more ADHD retention [ __ ] >> How long did the first 30 seconds take you?
>> 8 hours. So, so what I'm saying is don't overproduce the entire video. Focus on the first bit, which is where most of the viewers would be.
>> Yeah. Cuz this is where they're deciding. They're thinking like, what's in it for me?
>> And so, you had to Aiden put disproportionate effort. I I I genuinely I think I I think I scripted my first 30 seconds for the VSSL, didn't I? The rest I didn't. I might have had points.
>> I had a I had a very solid outline. I need to hit these points in that first 30 seconds cuz they're they're deciding here if they're going to if this is worth their time.
>> So like a a through the D for me I can yap unscripted >> no. It's just that paranoia for the first 30 seconds and maybe the feedback story arc as well.
>> I mean the feedback story arc I can >> feedback story arc I have points >> pretty. Yeah. Okay, cool.
>> And then the feedback story arc gets better as you do more sales processes because the feedback story arc is your sales pitch. Yeah.
>> Um like it's before someone enrolls, they probably heard the feedback story six times and didn't know.
>> Do you have a template uh for the VSSL structure that people can have?
>> Yeah, we give them a rough template.
>> Amazing.
>> Yeah, I think it's a PowerPoint presentation slide they can just follow along with.
>> But again, we tell them like try not to like script this word for word.
>> Yeah, scripting and this is from my personal opinion. Scripting is um there's a place for it, but more and more people like the adlib. The thing with VSSLs as well is, and I make this point in the workshop, they work well even if you do them poorly.
>> Yeah.
>> So, if you have a landing page, landing page A that does not have a VSSL. And landing page B has a video from me that says, "Hey, my name's Brandon. Um, I'm the managing director here. When you book a call, it's probably my voice you hear. See you soon." Version B will do slightly better. like whenever we get the business owner just like on camera, it just builds significantly more trust.
There's another variation of uh like I came up with this lazy VSSL. Um I call it the Google review VSSL. So I had this client I think Curious got this client.
Uh the solar in like souththeast Queensland or something like that. It's like the wild west for solar. I nearly didn't want to take on this client cuz I was like, "Dude, I don't want the [ __ ] smoke on this one." And their cost per lead was before us it was $150 and then I got it down to a hundred but they didn't have a VSSL on their landing page. They're also really really time poor but they had hundreds of Google reviews. So, all I did was I emailed one
of the owners and I said, "Hey, can you install Loom and just have your webcam on and just scroll through your Google reviews and just talk about them and then send it to me?" And so all he did was he scrolled through his Google reviews and said, "Ah, here's Wendy. I remember speaking to Wendy. She gave us five stars. She got burnt by someone in the past and then she had this to say about us." Scroll to the next one. Ah, here's Tony. I remember Big Tony. Tony came to us with this problem. Um, I think we sent out this rep for him and
he had this to say. He just did that for like two or three minutes and I just burnt captions in, put on the landing page, double the conversion rate and cut the cost per in half. That was literally all it was. It was like the simplest. It was like the You'll see a lot of our especially like home servers and trades, a lot of our with you members will do that one cuz it's like you can literally do it in like three [ __ ] minutes and you slip on the landing page, it like cuts your cost per lead in half. Bro, we're like [ __ ] hours into this [ __ ] video now. I don't know how much. Like clearly I don't know if Have you fell asleep? Have you fell asleep and this is just playing in the
background? If so, thanks for bumping my average view duration. But [ __ ] clearly I know what we're talking about.
You can do well with this video. You would go phenomenally if you just [ __ ] click one of the links in the description and come to a [ __ ] workshop. I've done like six CTAs by now.
>> In terms of uh next step, a landing a VSSL can be recorded on Loom. Yeah.
>> Which is incredible. Yeah.
>> Uh you don't need a high-end production team to do that. Y >> So you want to cut the friction down and just get it out there. Yeah, just get it out there first. Like I think I told this story when we were filming the first part of this video last week, but when me and Aiden filmed the original uh with you VSSL, we filmed like 9 10:00 a.m. that day. Aiden I like one took the entire thing. Aiden went home. While he was at home, I built out our landing
page and he just sent me the rough cut.
So, there was no captions. There was no animations. And in the first 30 seconds, it says flashing up on the screen is Tiana's testimonial. Aiden hadn't put Tiana's testimonial there. So, there was nothing there. I just published it on the landing page anyway, ran the ads, and it still worked. And so, I just told Aiden, I'm like, "Hey, like don't want to alarm you, but like, can you wrap this thing up?" And so, I think he just would edit 5 minutes at a time, and then just like send it to me. So done is better than uh and that is also another example of do as I say not as I do
because that is definitely not best practice but I don't care like a VSSL at all is better than no VSSL on your landing page.
>> All right VSSL is now done. We put it in to the landing page on the landing page.
>> Uh also goes on the thank you page as well.
>> Yep. and you ask them like five times in the nurture sequences like we just covered to like watch this VSSL, you position it as a benefit to them.
>> Y >> so again like I said in the nurture sequence section you want to say like hey what will help you is giving this a watch before the call prevents you coming to the call and asking so what do you guys do because this video explains everything >> correct?
>> Yeah you the ideal goal and what we get is this does so much heavy lifting for the sales team. So, I'll tell you the story. So, when we recorded that VSSL, the first couple leads, uh, Tim was my only sales rep at the time, and he was sick on that Friday, uh, for the calls that came in from this new VSSL. Now, previous to having this VSSL, Tim would we ran a lead magnet funnel, so people would get to a call with Tim expecting a done for you service. He'd have to
downell them to this new thing they had never heard of called With You. talk them out of us doing it for them, try and convince them to come to a workshop, try and explain what the support was, like try and explain like how the support works, like overcome all these objections. And then we just took all of that, put it into a video because it's the feedback story arc and then explaining away their objections. And then the first guy that enrolled from the new VSSL, I did the discovery section of the sales process and then
where my where my head was at was, oh, I'm going to have to explain with you.
But I was like, hm. I was like, "Hey, did you watch the video that was on the like landing page when you booked this call?" And he was like, "Oh, yeah." I was like, "What do you think of it?" He was like, "Oh, I thought it was great." And I was like, "Did you have any questions?" He's like, "Yeah, what what dates the next one?" Told him the dates.
He's like, "Anything else?" He's like, "Yeah, how much was it?" Told him the price. And he's like, "Yeah, it sounds sick. Like, how do we start?" I went, "What?" Yeah. So minimizing the questions by answering the ones that are most likely to be asked in the call by putting them in the VSSL is the best practice. So when they ask you answer in the VSSL except for the dates because you want to be underneath.
>> Why don't you mention the price in the VSSL?
>> Because one, we might put the price up and I don't want to re-record it. And two, I was always told price is a sales conversation, not a marketing conversation, right? We want them to see the value in it before we tell them the price. The marketing does a good job of conveying the value, but the marketing won't be able to do the sales team's job, which is to get the prospect to say out loud like, "Here's the cost of inaction, right? They're not going to have that conversation with themselves in their head." It can work, but it's just going to work for really, really
bottom of funnel people. When you advertise at scale, you I believe you need conversations that walk people through that process. I know like Taki Moore um he does really really well without a sales team and he has like a a no call funnel. I wouldn't see that working at scale with ads though. That works really well with organic. But if someone just saw you on an Instagram ad this morning, they're on a call with a stranger that ne next afternoon.
Obviously like if you got a zero and a 10 and a 10 is a customer. Someone from an ad is down here at like a three. And so we need to slide them up towards a 10. If someone's just come from your organic content, they're already at like an eight >> because they don't know what they don't know. And if they don't know what they don't know and they get the price, >> they're going to go, "Oh, no. This isn't for me." But actually, it is.
>> They just haven't.
>> Yeah. They haven't seen the value in their head. Again, because >> they're going to make up a story in their head and agree with it. and they're not going to talk, generally speaking, they're not going to talk themselves out of their opinion that this is too expensive.
>> What What happens when someone is just wants to save time and go, I just want to know the price, man. I don't want to get on a sales call. Whatever, whatever, whatever. What do you do?
>> Yeah. So, there's a couple different ways you can approach it. It it does vary based on like a case by case status. So, generally speaking, what we'll do is we'll say, "Hey, man, it can vary anywhere from like 1,200 bucks all the way to like $30,000. is probably somewhere in the middle. The point of this call is to figure out like where you sit on that spectrum cuz we have down cells and stuff like that. And if someone wants one-on- ones with me, it's probably like I won't talk for less than 30 grand.
And then they think it's like they're like, "Oh, that's a [ __ ] off price." Like, "Dude, this is me. Give me [ __ ] charity work, cunt." Um, >> but then you also have like if you have like really really high D personality types, we'll just tell them the price honestly.
>> Yeah. Sometimes actually I have a conversation with Jack who's one of our sales reps. Sometimes because they might text you like, "Hey, what's the price?" You might interpret as rude, but sometimes people are like, "Hey, like I I don't want to waste your [ __ ] time." But that doesn't come off in the text message. So generally speaking, um it v again it varies on a case by case.
We'll either tell them or just like give them a range.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz what we want to avoid as well is like the person could have [ __ ] all in their bank account and it generally like dude I'm not I'm not going to be able to buy if it's you know too expensive which is fair enough like I don't want that person taking up space in the calendar. It's just a waste of time.
>> Yeah.
>> Cool.
>> Sev and I are going to craft out his VSSL structure as well as film it and you can watch me coach him through the process.
>> All right. So with VSSLs the structure is actually very similar at least in philosophy to the landing page. So we want to go from most important information that like most people are going to be concerned about to the least. So the first 30 seconds the main things is like what is this? Who is it for? Does it work? Um and then what we do is we go on to the feedback story arc which you'd be familiar with. We can do a refresher because it's been a while since we last recorded. And then
essentially the tail end is just like a series of like FAQs. Um because when you watch the view retention curve, naturally, as we've spoken about already, there's going to be a pretty heavy decline. And so we want to frontload obviously the most important information. And then the people that are still watching at the end, they're the ones that like a little bit more skeptical. There's just one little question that they need answered. And then those are the people that are like the 10% watching at the end.
>> Now, the most common question I get is how much does it cost?
>> Would I put that at the first 30 seconds of the VSS? No, I actually don't. Um there's a lot of different um I suppose opinions on this. Um I was always taught that price is a sales conversation. I know in the US they are a little bit more direct with the pricing. The other reason I don't like putting the pricing in is in case you like increase it and you know you got to [ __ ] re-record this thing. Um, what you can do instead, and what I like to do instead, is give
some kind of indication on pricing. A couple different ways you can do that.
Similar to like with your ads, you would speak about problems that only people that are in the revenue brackets you're targeting would experience, like having team members and stuff like that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, you kind of qualify them um based on that information and then they'd roughly get >> Yeah. they should get like an indication um based on the video. Um and again, it's dials, not switches. So, there's going to be a percentage of people that come through that are unqualified. We're just trying to reduce that as much as we can >> and so that people can look at it and go, "All right, it's probably ballpark this depending on how experienced a buyer they are in the industry." >> Okay, >> cool. So, um the way that we'll do this
is I will just prompt you what I want you to talk about. Now, just like with the ads, don't feel like you need to one take this [ __ ] thing and just raw dog 19 minutes straight. That's another question people ask is like how long should the VSSL be? Um, generally speaking, there's a direct correlation between the sorry, an inverse relationship between how long the video is and how expensive it is. Um, so for
example, um, if you are trying to sell a $5,000 course to 18 to 21 year olds on how to start dropshipping, they've never invested in themselves before. They're like ultra ultra skeptical and so you need more time to convince them. They also just frankly have more time.
Whereas on the extreme other end of the spectrum, if you're trying to sell investment opportunities to sophisticated investors, they're more risk tolerant. um they also have significantly less time and so your VSSL will be much shorter. Uh it's basically what is the opportunity? Um are you guys credible? Uh and like what's the [ __ ] math formula that we're working with on this investment >> and how much do I talk about myself in the VSSL to validate it? Yeah, usually
you embed that throughout the process or towards like after like when you're kind of like the FAQ section of ESL >> cuz there'd be people that like understand the first 30 seconds, understand what it works, but then they just like look at someone and go, I don't know, I've never met this person before in my life. What are his credentials? To some people, that's important.
>> So, you want to cater to as many people as possible.
>> Exactly. So, the VSSL is trying to cover as many things as it can. It's never going to be able to cover everything.
And that's why we have the sales call.
>> Okay.
>> But basically the purpose of the VSSL, the VSSL does a few things. Number one, it absolutely increases the conversion rate of the landing page. Not many people are going to watch on that landing page though. They'll usually watch like 30 seconds and go, "Yeah, it seems interesting enough to at least give this person my contact details. Uh then they book a call." Then we repeat it on the thank you page. So, you put on the thank you page again because now that they've expressed a higher level of intent, now asking them to watch 10, 15,
20 minute long VSSL, they're more likely to do it. Not 100% of the time, but they're more likely to do it because they've booked this call because they want information. And this video, this video is now a source of information.
And the other thing to consider is they booked the sales call because they want information, but they might not get that information for 3 days whenever they booked the call. And so that they're looking for that information anyway. And so we repeat to them to watch this video. I like I built your nurtures the other day. And basically the way you frame the video is, >> hey, what will be really helpful for you is giving this video a watch before our call. Helps saves you a bunch of time.
It also prevents you getting to the call and going like, so what do you guys do?
Because this this video answers like 90% of the questions that people have.
>> So you you're giving them an assignment to do.
>> Yeah. But you got to rebrand it and not call it an assignment. Um, like people don't like being told what to do, so don't call it homework or an assignment.
Like the way it's framed in your nurtures is what will be really helpful for you is giving this a watch before our call. Answers most of the common questions that we get it asked. Um, >> to optimize your experience, here's a video you should watch.
>> Yeah, basically.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, there's like an infinite number of ways you could frame it. Um, and then the ideal outcome of the VSSL is they get to your sales call, you do the discovery session process, and they have [ __ ] all questions about how the program works. That's the ideal goal.
>> Yeah. Minimize the sales call uh time.
>> Yeah. You want them You don't want them getting to a call and having to do the discovery, introducing a new offer, explaining that it works, giving them all the testimonials, answering their questions. It's just like I'd rather just like get three out of four of those three or four of those out of the way before the call so we've only got to deal with one and just basically reduce psychological resistance on that sales call.
>> I'll get perfect example is like when Aiden and I launched the first VSSL for you the first couple sales calls that came through we were used to like just doing a lead magnet funnel some we'd had to explain the whole [ __ ] offer convince them it works. It was so much such a long sales conversation, a lot of psychological resistance. And then the VSSL just was basically just our perfect pitch, just not on a sales call, just getting to watch it beforehand. And so we'd get people going to the call and I was like, "Yeah, did you watch that video on the landing page?" Like,
"Yeah." And I was like, "What do you think of it?" They're like, "Yeah, I thought it was really good." I was like, "Did you have any questions?" They're like, "Yeah, what date's the next workshop?" I told them to date. And they're like, "Cool. What's the price?" I told them the price. Like, "Yeah, sweet. How do we get started?" That was it. That was the whole [ __ ] pitch.
like that is the ideal outcome um for this VSSL does a lot of heavy lifting for the sales team.
>> Cool. So, what we'll do, I'll prompt you through it now. Um, for everyone watching, I'll explain what the different sections are and so that you can follow along. Know, all right, this is basically roughly going to be my VSSL. Um, you're going to notice that we're not scripting this either. We're just working with prompts. Um, if you're an absolute beginner and you like reading off of scripts, sure, just try to make it not so obvious that like your eyes are darting to the side and reading a script. Um, they've got teleprompterss and stuff like that now, too. But you can just [ __ ] raw dog questions like
this. Um, in my experience also doing this like prompting Q&A thing with someone off cameras, um, a lot of the people that I find, not Sev's not one of them, but a lot of the people the other people I've worked with that aren't confident on camera, they found this process really, really useful. So maybe just like buddy up with your cameraman and get them to ask you questions. All right, so the first 30 seconds, all I want you to do here is we're trying to answer who's this for and like what does it do? The third thing we want to do is
embed proof. So you could either like mention testimonials or in post you can edit up screenshots. So for example in our VSSL it says like all the testimonials flashing up on the screen and Aiden has like hundreds of testimonials pop up behind me just like all the members that are flashing up on the screen. All the members that have been burned by agencies in the past. So what I just want you to do is I want you to talk for 20 or 30 seconds. Don't overthink it. And I just want you to talk about who it's for, the pain points that they've experienced. So we want to remember our principle, meet them where
they're at. Well, you want to for this first 30 seconds just reach into the internal monologue of your ideal customer, things they're experiencing and how you fix it.
>> Yeah.
>> You're a business owner and you need to make more content, but you struggle on camera. You stutter. You don't even know where to begin and you need the content out there because the audience is asking for it. You're running ads that are working, but you need that backend validation to show that you're legitimate beyond just the ad. So, what do you do? You need to make the content.
You don't have a plan. You don't have a script. You don't have any idea or any systems, but you need it because your competitors are starting to do it before you. So, here's where we're at. We make this a two-day workshop.
>> Stop there. Before we get into the feedback story arc, what I want you to do is we want to have testimonials in this first 30 seconds. Y.
>> So, >> was that first bit good, though?
>> That was good. Um, I just want you to say that's the same position that all these business owners found themselves in. And then in post, Aiden's going to flash up all the testimonials.
>> Yeah, this is the same situation that all these business owners had before coming to the workshop. They were stuck in their ways. They were not confident and they wanted more.
>> Cool. Now, what we're going to do, that would be roughly 30 seconds. Now, we want to do the feedback story arc. Do you remember the feedback story arc? So, it's um the problem someone has it before, the first pillar of your program, the next problem that it creates um and then how you fix that afterwards. So, let's just do this one at a time. Just talk about Yeah. The workshop's the first pillar, right? It's like you don't know what to do.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we we sit down. Yeah. Cool.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, um before you just talk about the first pillar, which is because the two pillars like the workshop and then support, right?
>> Oh, I thought you meant inside the workshop. The pillars inside the >> No, no, just like in delivery. So, it's workshop then support, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So just talk about firstly the problems that business owners have that prevent them from starting content.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The problem that business owners have that prevent them from creating mostly any content is the fact that they don't have a system. In the workshop we create that system that's tailored for you to be able to take yourself and keep forever.
>> Um how does that can you talk about one of the things you always want to do is like compare it to other things they've tried in the past. So remember that that customer.
>> So just talk about how it's what else have they tried in the past and how it's just different to that.
>> Yeah. A lot of business owners in the past have tried to hire someone from the beginning without any idea or any systems of how it works. They'd hire that person or the agency and they would run it for a few months and then it would either not work, which is most of the time, or it would work maybe a little bit and then eventually it would just crumble apart and when that entity that they've hired leaves or they fire them, they're left with nothing and
they're starting again. No systems.
>> Yeah, that's good. So can you just talk in in more detail about what you cover in the workshops?
>> Yeah. Okay. In the workshop itself, day one, we go through what's called your brand DNA. We understand what your customers are saying already about you or about your competitors and develop that brand voice that literally speaks like your customers are already speaking so that you can just attract more of them. We then translate that language into ideas uh covering their problems,
questions, etc. to then make that content. It's not just top of the funnel, it's middle and bottom of the funnel, too. And if you don't know what that means, we cover that in the workshop so you completely understand it. We then go into scripting and sequencing, which is another word for planning the video, so that you have utmost confidence in knowing exactly what to say, how to say it, what it's going to look like before you even finish recording. And then you get into the filming. And that's part of day one.
Day two, you get into editing and understand the process of editing and not just doing it yourself, but also how to give feedback to someone that you delegate it to. Most students that come to the workshop end up delegating their editing so that they don't have to, but they understand the process and how to give the feedback so that the revisions are minimal and they can get the content live sooner than having a bottleneck of revisions and no time to review them for quality assurance. After the editing, we
go into publishing, the distribution arm, teaching you how to publish properly and how to read the analytics so that you can snowball and compound what works well and also put out the best content, repurpose it as an ad. But then also the tactics of how to translate a follower into a customer, how to direct message them properly, how to nurture them from going from curious to interested, how to reply to comments properly, how to build a community, how
to do all of the things that most of your competitors won't do because they just want to post and forget. But we teach you how to do it so that you become the authority. And then finally, we teach you how to delegate all of it if you want to and manage that system because you didn't get into this for the marketing. You got into this because of the business that you serve people with.
>> Cool. What's the second pillar again?
So, it's ongoing support.
>> Yeah.
>> You want to talk about it?
>> Yep. So, now talk about the good problem that doing the workshop creates and how you solve that problem with the ongoing support. The workshop creates a system that you can then manage yourself and create an abundance of content. The problem that creates is >> wait sorry before we go back. You missed the core outcome which is actually post content in the workshop, don't they?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Cool. Talk about that and then and then go into the problem.
>> By the end of the second day, you will have at least 10 videos drafted and ready to publish on your social media channels. We generally like to have at least one published before the end of day one so we can reflect on it day two.
>> Cool. Now talk about the good problems that posting more creates. Yep.
>> What happens after you post more content? You have an abundance of data to collect and analyze. Then beyond the workshop, we look at that and see what's working and what's doing well and why and how to use that data to then snowball that to go even deeper and better in your content going forward. We also look at the content that is not performing so well and why it could be failing or bombing and how to improve
it. This includes six months of support and that also includes the first month being super intensive where I keep you accountable and making sure that you do the utmost minimum you need to do per week which unlocks a whole bunch of new support. You still have to do the work and I will help you every bit of the way as you progress along.
>> What does that support look like? Like is that a community? Is that WhatsApp?
Is that >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
During the six months of support, you'll get connected with myself on WhatsApp.
It's not going to be a community group where someone's trying to sell you crypto in the group chat. It's going to be a one-on-one with me. You can also invite any of your team members from your business to be included in the chat. for that six months to work.
You'll give me videos to look at, to review before you publish them, so you have the utmost confidence that you're posting something first try that has a better chance to succeed rather than trying to do it blindfolded.
>> Cool. And so that's the second pillar, isn't it?
>> Yeah.
>> Sweet.
>> Now, what we want to do is now that we've explained uh pillar one and pillar two, just summarize it. So you've got 30 seconds to summarize pillar one and pillar two.
>> The importance of the workshop and the six months of support is you build the system internally for you tailored to your business and your customers. You'll then understand the entire pipeline uh from idea all the way to publishing and how to delegate any of the parts that you don't like to do to other people.
Then you get the support of 6 months for whatever way >> do it again. But what I want you to do is the So we're trying to summarize it and give as little psychological resistance as possible. Brain loves numbers. So what I want you to do is try and find a way to work. So like in summary, firstly you get this. Secondly, you get this.
>> Can you give me an example with the numbers?
>> So in summary, we achieved two things together. The first thing we achieve is creating the content etc etc etc. Now that we've created the content, the second thing we need to do is make sure that your data is always improving.
That's the ongoing support.
>> Yep. By the end of the program, you'll achieve two things. One is by the end of the workshop itself, you'll have at least 100 ideas inside of your system ready to go down the pipeline with.
You'll then also have the support that makes sure >> say secondly >> yeah secondly you'll have that support that makes sure that the pipeline is evolved and that the content converts to data that converts back to better content as you go along in those six months.
>> Cool. Now what we want to do is basically those FAQs. So from like the most common questions all the way down to the least. So, I'll probably ask you what's the most common question that you get that we haven't addressed already.
>> Uh, how long does the workshop?
>> Cool. So, we got two days. Uh, is it online or in person?
>> It's online.
>> Cool. Let's do this. Let's start with a couple questions you might be wondering at this point in time. Is the workshop online or in person? Do that.
>> Yeah. A couple questions you're probably wondering is, is the workshop online or in person? This specific workshop is catered online, so you can easily attend from anywhere in the world. And the other question is, how long is the workshop? It is a 2-day workshop from 10:00 a.m. to 400 p.m. both days with a bit of a break in the middle. That gives you time to understand the theory and also apply the practical and everything's recorded so you can review
it any time later.
>> Um, talk a little bit about yourself. So now when you talk about yourself and all the I suppose accolades that you have, you want to position them as a benefit to um other people. So if I was to do it, I don't even think I have this on the VSSL, but if I was to do this, it would sound something like So a little bit about me. You're probably wondering who I am. Who's this guy swearing at me on Instagram. My name is Brandon Willington. Rather than saying last year I was named the Australian marketing
entrepreneur of the year, what I should do is because I've helped over 1500 Australian service-based business owners. Last year I was awarded >> what was Australian Young Marketing that [ __ ] thing.
>> Yeah.
>> So you you position the benefit of why you got that accolade as like unselfish.
>> Yeah. Um, so just give 30 seconds about basically just people you've how many businesses you've helped, any recognizable names.
>> 30 seconds, right?
>> Yeah.
>> [ __ ] you're really challenging me here.
I like to get out, man. Um, you're probably wondering who I am. My name is SA MV. I've been in the game for about 10 years now. I used to be a school teacher who built my own side hustle to a 2-year sales pipeline in wedding photography, leveraging nothing but social media organically. And people started asking me how I did it. So I started teaching them, having a residential builder become the most followed on social media in the country,
having helped Red Rooster amass an massive organic campaign that got nationwide news attention and collectively amassed over 1.6 million followers personally. Businesses want to know how I did it and how they can do it, too. Not to mention countless service-based businesses that I've given advice to that have gone on to increase their attention and most importantly uh sales conversions.
>> Oh, what if I don't like being on camera? That's going to be one, >> right? What if you don't like being on camera? Great. We have six different styles of content that you can learn from. And one of them includes faceless style content. You don't have to even appear on camera. just the things that are about your business and all the little tricks and tips that I bring in on how to make that possible for you so you don't ever have to be on camera. But I'll get you to do it anyway. How much
time per week do you need to dedicate?
Well, depends. How much more awareness do you want to build? Usually, it's between two to four hours a week minimum you have to dedicate to this. If you don't think you can do it, then it's definitely not for you.
>> What if I have no followers?
>> What if you have no followers? Great.
Awesome. We have a benchmark of zero.
Everyone starts at zero and we just go up from there. You don't have to have 1.6 million followers to get the business. You only need your first customer that you do well with. You use that as content and you snowball the [ __ ] out of it.
>> What kind of results can I expect?
>> Yeah. Do you ever say like it depends or is that not too assertive enough?
>> Yeah, I'd say like the um common experience is >> what kind of results should you expect postworkshop after putting in the effort? You should expect at least a 20 to 30% increase in leads and in terms of the sales themselves, the quality of the sales go up.
>> Yeah. Oh, actually phrase it like this rather than trying to talk about numbers because then they can come back to that like oh I didn't get 20%. It's like 20% from what?
>> Um I would say something like common things that people say afterwards is I got more leads.
>> Um my sales were easier because lead quality. So like phrase them as statements they say to you.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Common results you should expect after the workshop. increase in leads, increase in quality of leads, increase in sales that actually occur and decrease in the time to sell because the content already speaks for itself and people trust you more.
>> Yeah, that's good. So, the way that I think about FAQs, and I think we've spoken about this before, is like the first quadrant is like expectations.
That's kind of split into like results and time. I think we've we've covered that.
>> Then you have follow-up questions. So, when you answer those first few questions, uh, like what are the follow-up questions?
>> What if we have a really boring business?
>> What if you have a really boring business? Great. You have customers, you can market to them, and there's ways to do that. Those customers have relatable moments that you can relate to. It's no longer boring. The boring part is if you use too much industry jargon. I help you avoid that and it's no longer boring.
Uh, so this is an important part for everyone to know about. We'll talk about this in sales. If you get an objection at the end of a sales call, it's not likely the first time it came up. It's just the first time you talked about it.
So, what objections do you typically get at the end of sales calls that we could talk about now?
>> Literally, I need to ask my partner or my business partner.
>> Yeah. So, I'd frame something like, yeah, a lot of people are business together, whether that's professional or romantic partners. Just so, and the way that I try and overcome this is just so you don't play messenger owl, try and bring anyone involved um to the same call. Yeah, when it comes to businesses, there's usually business partnerships, whether it's professional or intimate.
You have a business partner you may need to ask. Bring them in on the call and they can attend the workshop, too.
Because we usually find that those partners working together postworkshop get better results.
>> So, it's kind of like when you join the gym with a friend and then you just talk about your meal plans outside the gym.
It's kind of like when you join the gym with a friend and you talk about your workouts and your meal plans outside the gym to then improve that over time together.
>> I just do. So to um save your seat for an upcoming workshop, just fill out the form below. It will make sure that you're a good fit and this will work for you. Um if it looks like you're a good fit, you can schedule a call on the next page. I would problem stack first though. So, we've done a bunch of like logical slowbrain thinking. We want to get them back into an emotional state before we do a call to action. Um, do the same thing on webinars. So, what you probably want to do is something like
problem stack. Very similar to the intro. So, if you want to stop experiencing pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, and you want to experience dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, then fill out the application below. You should be able to book a call on the next page and we'll get you on track in a workshop. If you want to experience actually knowing what to post to attract more customers to your business. If you want to own your own system for your digital marketing. If you want to stop paying someone else who doesn't care about your business as much as you. If you want to
be more confident on camera because you already know what you're saying, you just need the processes to nail it. And if you want to get support beyond the workshop so you stay accountable and consistent, then fill out the form below. can get you on a call to make sure that you're the right fit. Now, we're getting close. We can build out the meta campaign. So, I'm going to show you how to build that as well as all the [ __ ] that you need to [ __ ] turn off for the love of God. All right, so from the campaign or account menu, we're going to go create. There's heaps of
different objectives. Honestly, the [ __ ] only one that you're ever going to use as a lead generation business is leads. For the love of God, never run an awareness campaign. If you optimize for traffic, you're gonna get a bunch of clicks, but precisely [ __ ] zero leads. Engagement campaigns are useless.
Don't do that whole thing where I'm gonna warm up the audience that just go for the jugular. I've never used that promotion. Sales will be for e-commerce, but we're going to go for leads. Go continue. Name your campaign something you'll remember. So, I'll call service content workshops.
Um, I always have, well, I always recommend having some kind of naming convention. Um, so I always just end the campaigns with what the optimization goal is. We're optimizing for schedules.
Now, as a service-based business, typically speaking, there's only ever really two optimization goals you got to optimize for, leads or schedules. I'll talk about that at the adset level. So, with the budget, there's two different budget strategies that you have. So, you have campaign budget and adset budget.
Now, what's the difference between this to draw the difference? What I'll actually do is I'll open the mirror board. So the way that a campaign is structured is you have one campaign. You have one or multiple different ad sets and within those ad sets you have multiple different ads. One or multiple different ads. The campaign is what do we want to do and how aggressively do we want to do it. But the how aggressively do I want to do it? That's the budget.
Now, that can either be set at the campaign level, which is this here, in which case we say, I want you to spend, let's say, $100 a day. And if we set the budget at the campaign level, you basically let Facebook choose how to best distribute that amongst all the different ads and all the different ad sets. So, it might spend $30 a day here,
$30 a day here, and then $40 a day here.
It might spend only $10 a day here. It might spend $70 a day here, and then I might spend $20 a day here to spend that $100 a day on average. It could wildly fluctuate dayto day. Um, and then within that, it will obviously choose how to distribute that budget to each adset amongst all of its different ads. So that is this campaign budget level here.
Now, up until recently, and when I say recently, I mean it's the 30th of April and I swapped on the 14th of April, just two weeks ago, I was only using campaign budget for everything. And so I would have one campaign and then multiple different adsets and then the campaign would spend like $5,000 a day.
What I have transitioned to is adset budget optimization. So what that is is rather than saying the campaign is I want to spend $100 a day, we still say what we want to do, which is leads, but I'm manually setting, hey, for this adset I want you to spend $70 a day. For this ad set, I want you to spend $20 a day.
For this ad set, I want you to spend like $10 a day. And that would add up to my $100 a day. What that actually looks like in my ad account when it's built is I have this campaign here, callfunnel, master campaign, [ __ ] adset, budget optimization schedules. And then at the adset level, I have all these different individual adsets. And I have the budget set for each adset. Um, so what I'm going to do is actually set the budget
for SEV at the adset level. I untick this share some of the budget amongst other adsets. I recently learned why we should swap to adset budget because Facebook is testing lots of different features like their AI creative enhancements like all the all the random [ __ ] [ __ ] they're trying to like toggle on for you. The way that they actually test it is with all the billions of dollars that get spent by
advertisers. And so when you turn on certain features, it wants to test those features with by showing it to as many people as it can. So it will absolutely [ __ ] spend significantly more money on the ads that you know you've toggled on features that Facebook wants to test.
And so when it's testing lots of different things, it tests it with your ad spend budget. You want to pull as much control back to yourself as you can. And so I'm now using adset budget.
Don't need to do this AB testing. We don't need to do this special ad categories unless you're trying to influence your elections. And then we just go next. Now the first ad set that we're going to make is just a cold advantage plus ad set. So, first thing we need to do is the conversion, which is like what action are we optimizing for? We don't want to use instant forms because we're going to be sending someone to a landing page and getting them to book a call.
So, we want to send someone to a website.
We website landing page in the eyes of meta. Same verbiage. We want to maximize the number of leads. Now, we haven't done this for SE yet, but we want to create a data set. Now, depending what [ __ ] version of Facebook's interface that you have and what [ __ ] day of the week it is, they're going to call this thing something slightly different.
They're either call call it a data set for you or they're going to call it a pixel for you. Sometimes they're going to call it [ __ ] both and just swap between them. Like they've been arming and eyeing about whether they want to call it a pixel or a data set for like a [ __ ] year and a half now. But we're going to create a data set for Sev.
We're going to call it talk to SEV pixel. See, even here it says like name your pixel. It's like pick a [ __ ] lane.
Create pixel. Now, we can set that up later. And by we, I mean I'm going to get Chris to do it cuz I don't [ __ ] like setting up conversion tracking. But we're going to set this data set for this ad set. The conversion event that we want is we're going to optimize for schedules. Now, what do I mean when we optimize for lead or schedules? Well, if we draw out another mirror board, what we're going to do is we're going to set up conversion tracking so that when someone hits the first page of the
funnel and then gets to the booking page, that is when a lead happens. So, when someone goes from here to here, a lead happens. When someone gets from here the booking page and hits the booking confirmation page, we're going to get Chris to set up conversion tracking so that schedules happen. Now, Facebook's smart. Meta's smart. They don't get enough credit. When you ask them to optimize something, they're very
good at getting the thing that you want them to do. For example, if you at this ads set level, you get it to optimize for link clicks or just landing page views, which is an option for some [ __ ] reason. Where is it? We can do maximize number of landing page views, maximize number of link clicks, maximize unique reach, maximize number of pressions. It will absolutely maximize
the event that you want it to do. And so if we optimize for link clicks, we will absolutely get way more people visiting this page than if we had optimized for leads or schedules. But [ __ ] all people will become leads.
Vice versa, if we tell it to optimize for leads, we'll get people that click the ad, view the landing page, and then become a lead, but less of them will convert because we're saying, "Hey, we just want people that hit this page.
We're not too worried about if they schedule. Now, if we go into here and we say, "I want you to optimize for schedules," it will go find people that see the ad, click the ad, view the landing page, become a lead, and then schedule a call. And so, what's happening is if you imagine a pie chart, essentially, let's say this is our adset. We're trying to target small business owners here. Well, by setting
the conversion event here, what we're doing is we're optimizing for essentially the level of intent that that segment is is expressing. So, there's going to be, let's say we're targeting business owners. Well, there's going to be a segment of people that just feel like reading blog articles and viewing content. There's going to be a section that just feel like clicking links and viewing landing pages. There's going to be a section of people that have expressed behaviors that indicate they want to become a lead and enter
lead forms. There's going to be a segment of the audience that has expressed behaviors that indicates they're in a scheduling mood. And so when we go to this conversion event and we set targeting parameters down here, we're going I don't just want people that click links and view [ __ ] I want people I want the segment of this audience that is most likely to schedule calls because that's the activity and the behavior that I'm optimizing for.
Yeah. Now, there is a little bit of a caveat to this. Generally speaking, and this is a rule of thumb, when someone in the past when someone has been starting out, I've told them to optimize for leads because a lot of their leads will schedule anyway. In the past, what has happened is if I told someone to schedule and they didn't have a whole load of schedule data, it wouldn't even [ __ ] get leads and it wouldn't get schedules either. This absolutely is worth split testing. In more recent
months, going straight for schedule has worked out okay for me. I'll give you a perfect example actually. Um, Industry Set, which is my other company with um, Jackson, we opt we're we're a call funnel as well, so we want people to book in. However, for whatever reason, whenever I try and target music producers and try and get them to schedule and I optimize for schedule conversions, it won't even [ __ ] get leads. I just don't understand. My theory anyway, and this is a little bit
of a side tangent, is electronic music producers that are like making dubstep in their mum's basement, they don't spend a whole they don't even [ __ ] use calendars. So, they don't even there's not a whole lot of data on that segment of the audience on them scheduling stuff. And so the algorithm just doesn't know how to do it. However, with business owners, business owners typically schedule quite a few things in their calendar. They're busy people and so there's just more data around them scheduling stuff. And so if you're in the B2B space, I'd encourage you to
probably start with schedules. However, both can work. And if we follow my principles of like dials, not switches, everything will work to a degree. It's to what degree. Worth split testing. In Sev's instance, I just got a good gut feeling about schedules and so that's why I'm going for schedules. We can set up conversion events for their pixel data set later. We don't want to set a cost per result goal. Now, what this is is saying, hey, I only want you to spend
money if you reckon I you can get leads for or schedules for $50. You can only do this when honestly I don't do it at all. Um, but if you do want to do it, you can only do it when you have significant data. Because let's say you have no data on your pixel and you say, "Hey, only get me schedules if you reckon you can get me them for about a hundred bucks." It's just not going to spend money cuz it's like, "I have no [ __ ] idea how to do that at all. I've never done it ever." And so, this would be something that you could introduce
later to try and control your costs and smooth things out a little bit. But I also think that it's for cowards. Value rules. I'd never [ __ ] use that.
attribution model sounds like it's for [ __ ] nerds. Um, do not use dynamic creative. Cool. And this is where we set the budget at this adset level. So, basically saying how much do I want to spend at this adset for the ads that we're going to create within it. We're going to set sev to 100 bucks a day and then we're going to ask his permission.
If you want, you can set up schedules and get it to start at certain times or potentially end at certain times. I never use that. The only instances where I've ever used that is for uh events like night life and music festivals where there's specific deadlines. Now automatically Facebook has toggled on advantage plus in the past and this is an example another example of how the platform and what best practices changes over time. In the past I was super anti-advantage plus when they first
rolled it out. It was truly [ __ ] [ __ ] Um and so were the leads that it will generate. Like I have no idea.
Like interest stacks just worked really really really really well for me. And when I used Advantage Plus or I toggled it on, lead quality was just like so bad. Like insanely bad. Now to be fair, I am talking late 2024, early 2025. It's gotten really, really good now. And the reason it's gotten really good is because a bunch of business owners left it toggled on. Facebook was to test it with their advertising budgets and it got better. Which is also why I'm going to go on a rant when we get to ad creation because they're going to toggle
on a bunch of features that they want to test with your ad budget to try and make it better and it will be better later.
But in the meantime, you just don't want to be their [ __ ] guinea pig with your visa on the [ __ ] ad account. We can leave Advantage Plus on. What is Advantage Plus? Advantage Plus is essentially Facebook's AI targeting options. Now, pre and I think I gave this rant with Sev, like pre Andromeda or even like early 2017, early 2018, the best practice with Facebook and targeting was like you'd have super niche little interest stacks. You'd cross vector things and get really hyper
specific. That doesn't work anymore.
Trying to be smart with this platform, you're not going to be smarter than Facebook. It has trillions of data points on [ __ ] nearly every human on earth that's ever connected to a Wi-Fi signal. It knows better than you. Your the ego that you would need to assume that you know the more than Mark Zuckerberg listening to you through your phone baffles me. So you just want to give more control in terms of targeting anyway, not so much content and copy. In terms of targeting, Facebook knows it's [ __ ] now. It's really [ __ ] good. The
targeting, like I've said before, is very much in making the right ad. The ad and what you say will indicate to Facebook who it should serve that ad to, which is why the copy and the content is so important, but we're going to leave advantage plus on. You can still use suggestions. Now, SEV wants to do the east coast. So, I'm going to do Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Gold Coast.
It's going to toggle this thing on automatically for most of your versions of the interface. It's going to say, "Reach more people likely to respond." Basically, what that's saying is saying, "Hey, I know you said you only want me to target people in these radiuses, but you can go [ __ ] yourself and it'll just pick random people outside of it." So, we didn't want to toggle that off.
Facebook likes to split test different versions of the interface. And so, some of your interfaces are going to look ever so slightly different. And the reason they split tested the interface is to see which one you guys find it easier to turn ads on. For example, the most common as of the 30th of April, the most common example is down here. It will either say further limit the reach of your ads with this little gray gear icon. If you want to get to just interest targeting and turn off. So, if
we go further limit the reach of your ads, that will turn off. Oh, it's still [ __ ] on. All right. I have the version of the interface where you cannot turn advantage plus off, but I'm just going to go switch to recommended setup. Some of you will be able to turn Advantage Plus off. Um, and if that's the case, it will I think it looks like a blue hyperlink and it says like switch to original audience options. That's basically the other version of this. I have the version of the interface or at least Sev has the version of the interface where he doesn't get a [ __ ]
choice.
Now, custom audiences. This is where we can start embedding that stuff that we talked about before like people that engage with it on Instagram, Facebook, male audiences and stuff like that. What we are going to do however is we've got advantage plus on but we can give suggestions into interests and behaviors and so basically rather than just going hey go find people relevant in this geography and does it have age range as well? Minimum age we want to change
that. Holy [ __ ] We can only go as high as 25 with this interface. Unlucky Sev.
Um, or is it this one? Stay in current setup. Apply value rules. Maybe it's this one. No, it's this one. Or you want like 30. It's still got advantage. Oh my god. Now it's off. Holy [ __ ] What is going on, Mark? Dude, I use Facebook Ads Manager every [ __ ] day and still they just drop new features where I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is this?" You're using the recommended setup and now I can't go
above 25. That's insane. That's new.
Guess we're dealing with that now. So, we got a location. We have a minimum age, man. How long do you reckon it's going to be until they're like, "Nah, no targeting at all." Languages. Sure. We want English. Minimum. I can't get over that. The maximum minimum age selection is 25. All right. But what I was trying to do was am I even allowed to [ __ ] do it? Oh, wait. No, here we go. Your suggestion. What is going on, Mark?
Okay. So, these are the suggestions. So, my suggestion to Facebook is 30 to do 45 and then detail targeting. So, this is where you can start giving more suggestions. So where Facebook will go kind of like wide, this will go hey like narrow it in a little bit like this. So I want small business owners. I want business page admins on Instagram business profile
admins. Now that's my pretty standard B2B stack to target business owners.
Now, what I'd encourage you to do is go to this browse section and then just have a browse around all the different like targeting options that you have so you can kind of point Facebook in the right direction. Now, don't get carried away with this. Uh, it's a massive mistake I see most business owners make because, and you probably do this as well, is when you talk about your advertising and your advertising strategy because the verbiage that you use is I want to be able to target my
ideal customer. You think that means getting really really hyper specific in this detail targeting stuff so that I don't know you can you can target the right people like in that verbiage that is not correct anymore. The targeting is very much automated. How you get more specific and make sure the right person sees it is how you write the copy, how what you say in the video so that you speak to your ideal customer. You're absolutely going to need to accept the fact that there are people that are not
your ideal customer that will see the ads. But again, remember advertising is dials, not switches. We're trying to dial up the percentage of people that are your ideal customer and the percentage of people that are your ideal customer and click the ad and dial down the percentage of people that see your ad that are not your ideal customer and absolutely dial down the percentage of people that click your ad that are not your ideal customer. So that's why we spent so much time and are going to spend so much time on the copy and the
content. If you're in the financial space, you needed to tick that. Now placements, generally speaking, I just leave it on advantage plus placements.
However, best practice would be to turn off, what are they [ __ ] called?
Audience network. All right. How are they going to make me do this on today's version of the interface? Audience network. Unselect the placements you want to exclude. That one. That one. All right. Cool. It looks like that. Cool.
Turn off audience networks, man. Every [ __ ] day I open ads manager. It's new. So now what we've done here is we've created our first ad set. Spending $100 a day. We're trying to get people to schedule calls. That means we're optimizing for Facebook. Not just people hitting this page. Not just people hitting the booking page, but we're saying, "Hey, try your darnest to get people to hit the booking confirmation page, which indicates they've gone through this entire process." I don't know what's going on with Facebook today. Next, let's make ad one the identity. So, this is what the page is
going to show up as. Uh, Sev's got talk to Sev and he's got his Instagram profile there as well. All right, let's see what version of the interface SE has for ads. It looks slightly different. It looks slightly different, but pretty much the [ __ ] same. Turn ads into a shopping experience. Why? I didn't even [ __ ] I specifically said I don't want sales.
Remind me later. Sure.
I [ __ ] hate this thing.
I have the most toxic relationship with this platform. It's like it makes me so much money. But what is this? Oh my god, this [ __ ] thing. Verifying your change. We think someone may have tried to access your account. It does this all the [ __ ] time. I've been using it all morning, bro. All morning. All right, just [ __ ] start authentication then.
Just a heads up, the next 20 minutes is just mostly me going to be swearing at this interface as it has been for the last 30 minutes. Oh, great. We can use it again. Let's turn on ad preview.
Multi-advertiser ads is fine. I'm not going to lie. I don't know what a [ __ ] is, but I just leave it on anyway and everything's worked out for me. I don't know [ __ ] how much more I need to convince you. Clearly, we know what we're talking about. There's so many [ __ ] testimonials. Go to the landing page. Look, you know, actually [ __ ] Google Chrome crashes sometimes when I try to add more testimonials to the page. I try to like duplicate a row and it's just like and just [ __ ] crashes the thing. If you want to sit down with us for two days, hold your hand through this. Not just not just
[ __ ] this process. Like there's [ __ ] 50 calls a week you can go to for help. There's some links in the description. Um, all right. Here's what we want to do. Um, I still got to build Sev's landing page, but once the URL is ready, we want to copy and paste that in from high level. Now, a lot of your versions of the interface, I'm actually frankly quite surprised that it's not automatically toggled on for SE. A lot of yours are going to have these browser add-ons and it's going to add like a coal or it's going to add like an instant form or something like that. You
want none. What this will do is let's say someone clicks this link um or clicks the link on the ad. It might open the URL. It might just [ __ ] open an instant lead form and then say you got leads. You got leads but they weren't the way that you wanted them to go. So just [ __ ] toggle them to none. All right. Add creator. So this is where we start uploading video content images and we can start writing the primary text as well. So setup creative. Some of your versions of the interface is going to look slightly different but not slightly
very different. We want video ad. I've already uploaded serves. All right, cool. A lot of yours they're going to [ __ ] automatically put in. Actually, I'll [ __ ] show you what it'll look like. All right, let's see if it does it. So, we put the link in. That's where we want people to go. And then let's see if it does it. Setup add creator. Upload video. Yeah, see this [ __ ] thing.
This [ __ ] thing. Turn this off. So, what this is going to do is it's going to like scan the landing page and send it to random pages. So, delete that [ __ ] Make sure everything else is off.
Next. Now, I've already uploaded says batch one. You should have already trimmed it. I don't even know why this is a [ __ ] thing. If you need to edit it, I just leave it on original. Cool.
Primary text. So, what we want to do now, best practice, this is going to be there's going to be a lot of do as I say, not as I do. Um, best practice when it comes to ads would be that the idea of what's said in the video matches the idea of what you write in the primary text. In my experience, it doesn't [ __ ] matter that much, but I'm going to do it anyway. So, what we're we're going to do is I spoke about previously
this concept called the rule of one, which is an ad follows one idea, one promise, one story, one emotion, and one call to action. Um what we want to look at is the first one which is the idea.
And so we watch the video we go what is the idea that is like the one core idea of this video and then we write around that. So let's watch this first. Our students come to our workshops because they're the expert but nobody knows that they are online. They run ads but some people still don't believe them. The ads get expensive. That's why in the two-day workshop, we cover all bases so you learn how to make the organic content that makes you the authority. Look how
happy he is. Everyone's validated him and trust him. That could be you.
>> Cool. So, the idea of this ad is that you're an expert in your field. Now, I actually don't really like writing my ads in this primary text section here, but we're going to [ __ ] do it anyway.
Now, little bit of a workflow tip when it comes to writing copy. Firstly, you're probably asking why I'm not just going to chat GPT or Claude to write my ads for me. You can later, but what I want you to understand first is what's going on in my head as I write copy so that when you go to Claude and you do prompt it, you're at least prompting it with good examples of ads that for like committed and not just curious. Um because in my experience, if you just blindly go go to Claude and get it to
write ads for you, you'll probably spend more time editing the ads, getting the tone right, getting the features right, than you actually [ __ ] save. Now, what do you do when you are starting from a blank page, which we're doing right now? In my experience, it's significantly harder to write just staring at a blank page. Um, what is easier is to build just dump words down.
It's much easier to look because it's much easier to look at those words that you've dumped down on the page and then remix them and expand them and extrapolate them into something that you're not [ __ ] ashamed of. And so firstly, what we want to do is write um the idea is that you're an expert in your field. Now, we're going to start with the hook. I'm not going to write down features or anything like that, right? Because as I said before with
Sev, the hook is the 20% of your primary text, also your video that is going to get 80% of the results. Now, we've spoken about a few of the things that are really important in the hook. So, the first one is it needs to be committed, not curious. And so, we need to make sure that it's clear that this is a workshop that Sev fixes this for people. This is a service. This isn't a [ __ ] blog article or a free online course or video or something like that.
Right? So, you're an expert in your field as a servicebased business owner. Right now, what we do is we just build on this. So, I don't want to [ __ ] use that obviously. Um, that's my f second draft. You've been providing a service for years, potentially decades. you're the expert, but no one knows it. Now, a few things that are good with this first draft.
This isn't my final draft. Is Sev said he can only work with service-based business owners. So, I this by saying this, you've been providing a service for um that helps turn away e-commerce people. Now, says 4 years. Now, this is another thing that actually didn't realize I did it until [ __ ] after I wrote it, but that's another qualifier as well, right? So, this will probably turn away a lot of the beginners or people that want to start a business. It
will speak directly to people that have been in business and well established for quite a while, potentially decades, that achieves the same outcome. And then you're the expert, but no one knows it.
That's the core emotional driver and the idea of this video ad. Now, the problem with this hook is it is very curious, not committed. It's not clear what the service is from just reading this alone because remember a lot of people aren't going to click that little see more button before they click the link.
They're just going to go a cool easily tap it go to the landing page and what will happen is they'll click this like if you just read you've been providing a service years potentially decades you're the expert but no one knows it. very few people if any at all would be expecting it to be a workshop or providing some kind of service that they can purchase on that landing page. So what we want to do is a thought experiment which is if I
was to just slightly remix this sentence so that it's clear this is a service you like buy it or you apply for it or it's a workshop just it could be a couple words like what would that be? So what I would do and there's so many different ways you could do this. What I would do is the people that attend my workshops have been providing a service for years.
They are the experts but no one knew it.
Now when you read this it's clear the people that attend my workshops we can figure out from that sent that section of the segment sentence alone that this is a workshop. Now what we want to do is a similar process. We just want to talk about the service. Now, rather than starting from scratch, I'm just going to dump down features and benefits and then we can reorganize those into sentences that, you know, clearly communicate the value of the business. So, what I want to talk about is it's online, walk away with content filmed, even if you hate
being on camera, you get a repeatable plan, not spinning the wheels. So, I've turned that into the people that attend my workshops have been providing a service for years. They're the experts, but no one knew it. Previously, they've been spinning their wheels with content creation. They knew they had to do it, but didn't have a clear plan on how to execute it. They hate hated being on camera, and that was the main bottleneck for them filming content at all. They saw the content their competitors were making and wondered how they were speaking clearly on camera at all. I
repeated that. All the business I helped walk away with content, not just filmed, but edited and posted and a clear, repeatable plan to continue that so they become the go-to authority in their industry. To save your seat for a workshop, click below to learn more. Not too bad. Now, the headline, this is just going to appear next to the button. You just want it, generally speaking, the easiest way to think about it is just like a very, very, very condensed version of your hook. So, I would say something like become the industry
authority.
Now, for the love of God, make sure none of this creative text generation AI [ __ ] is selected. For a lot of you, it's going to select it. I don't bother with the description. It's basically like what appears under the headline.
and call to action. I always go to learn more next. All right, here we go. This is the [ __ ] first gauntlet. You need to make it's for a lot of you. It's going to [ __ ] toggle all this [ __ ] on. So, we need to like turn all those off. All right, but wait, there's more.
Oh my [ __ ] god. They got translations now.
Just I don't [ __ ] know. They've got this on industry sets account, too. Just [ __ ] off. Now, wait. We said none of them are on, but Mark gas lights you. You need to go down here. Oh, it actually doesn't do it. Oh, no, he [ __ ] did.
So, yeah, it says essential enhancements down here. All right. Now, firstly, I'm actually very surprised that it didn't do it for Sev's account cuz he's new.
This optimize text per person thing. You need to [ __ ] make sure that that is disabled. For a lot of you, it's going to automatically enable it. And when it's enabled, there won't be this edit button next to it so that you can turn it off. The way that you turn it off is you go down here. Oh my god, there's more. You go down here, you go edit, and then you turn off relevant comments. You turn off every single one. You turn off
every single one and then it will toggle back or toggle to disabled.
What is this too? Advantage creative translation turned off. Yeah, good. Turn that off, too. Is there anything else that I need to [ __ ] turn off here?
There's another one they do, too. They do like related media. You need to [ __ ] delete that [ __ ] too. Related media is just like, "Hey, I know you told me to run this video, but like I found this other random one for whatever reason, and for a bunch of people, I'm just going to choose that video instead." It's actually [ __ ] I don't understand it.
I think we're good. Is that it? I get real [ __ ] tense at this part.
Sick. Let's publish that. Now, when it comes to naming conventions, I'm an ad one, ad two, ad three guy, but what you should do just so when you're like when you've got like dozens of ads, you can clearly see this ad's performing well.
What's the idea in it? What I like to do is name it like ad one and then the ads like along with that like the idea of the ad. So, I'll do expert in your industry. Now, if you wanted to, you could go through the long way, which is like go create and then create the whole addict from scratch. I just like to [ __ ] duplicate it. All right. Don't duplicate with recommendation. This [ __ ] thing. What is this? You can now apply recommendations that may help improve your ad performance. You can review your ad before publishing it.
Like, add an image. Why? That's not what I want. Just duplicate with original setup. As a general rule of thumb, when you're in Facebook Ads Manager, if they're clearly trying to get you to do something, just do the [ __ ] opposite.
Like this this grayed out [ __ ] button. go with that one. Now, when you duplicate the campaign, sorry, when you duplicate the ad, you choose where you select it. I'm duplicating it into the original campaign, which will duplicate it into the original ad set. I'm going just go duplicate. Cool. Let's do add to what's the next video. Watch. I reckon they [ __ ] turn [ __ ] on, too.
Yeah. See, they [ __ ] as you Yeah, [ __ ] off you [ __ ] Add video effects. They're sneaky. All right, number two. No more fear of judgment.
Here we go. What's this video?
>> After two days of working with me, the fear of judgment in front of the camera was lifted. What that led to was more leads because you're yapping a lot. And that yappathon creates trust.
>> Cool.
Next. Now, what we want to do is we don't need to, now that we've got one ad, we don't need to completely start from scratch. You can if you're feeling particularly creative, but I'm not. So what we can do is just rewrite the hook and remix the body. So the idea of this ad is fear of judgment. You know you need to film content to get leads but you hate being on camera. Now we do the same thing. How can we make it more committed more of a committed hook? So,
I would do something like, "Everyone that comes to my workshop knows they need to film or knew they need to film content to get leads, but they hated being on camera. Now, I'm going to be [ __ ] lazy and just get Claude to rewrite this." Can you rewrite this letter add body copy? Because I can't be [ __ ] Everyone that comes to my workshop knew they need to film content to get leads, but they had to being on
camera. They were stuck in content creation purgatory. They knew they had to do it. Had no idea how to actually make it happen. The camera was the enemy. The second the red light turned on, every coherent thought vanished.
That's a good one. Meanwhile, their competitors were showing up online polished and confident, and they couldn't figure out how. The business owners I work with don't just don't just leave with the plan. They leave with content film, edited, and posted. and a simple repeatable system to keep showing up as the go-to authority in the space.
Click blow s banger. I wouldn't use claude or like chat GBT or anything to write your hook unless you train on like committed versus curious. Like our with you members have a chat GPT custom GPT thing that we use so that it gets the committed language better. But generally speaking from scratch, I want to [ __ ] do it. And also just for this video, I'm like walking you through like what's my thought process when it comes to this.
When you blindly trust AI, it's just going to revert to its mean. But obviously when you use it intelligently, you can use it correctly. But you need to know what intelligent is first so you don't have [ __ ] RAI instead of AI.
Need these. All right, here we [ __ ] go. Round two. Next. No, I don't want to [ __ ] translate anything.
Very good. Fear of judgement.
Yeah. Like in terms of like what's more important, the primary focus or the video? Absolutely. The video has not more not just more weight in the algorithm, but more weight in the mental bandwidth of the people that are viewing it because it's significantly obviously psychologically more engaging to watch a video and listen to someone than it is to [ __ ] read text. So, I don't place a whole lot of effort honestly into the primary text. I will put a lot of thought into what I say in the video
though. Actually, perfect case study.
So, like industry set, we had like um really poor show rate after [ __ ] World War II nearly happened. Is that still on? I actually don't know if you [ __ ] cares. But the show rate like really really tanked. And so what we did was we got the sales transcripts of all the people that showed and enrolled and we compared it to people that like what people said in their application what they didn't show and we compared that with the messaging in our ads. The main
finding we found was that the people that showed and enrolled were more focused on improving their processes as a music producer. So like they wanted to get better at the skill. The people that booked and didn't showed, all their goals that they wrote in their application were about like the outcome, like the future, very optimistic, like playing music festivals and getting supported by big artists and like all the cool fun [ __ ] It wasn't the boring [ __ ] like I want to get better at making
music. Um, and so what I told Jackson was like, "Hey, like we need new ads that speak specifically from a messaging perspective to the people that want to get better at making music rather than um like I got signed to this label, this label, this label." And so while I was waiting for him to film new video ads, I just rewrote the copy and it did like with so I redid the copy with the new
messaging, but it had the videos had the old messaging and it's it didn't fix the [ __ ] like show rate at all. Um, however, literally just this morning, last night, I swapped in the new video ads where he talks to the better messaging angle. paired that with obviously the better primary text and he just messaged me this morning saying I think the show rate's been fixed. So that's a pretty like and that was like
the case case of like 14 hours ad three overspending on ads.
A ton of our students are sick of donating money to Mark Zuckerberg in their ad spend. They want to lower the costs and still bring in more leads. And that's why we create the organic salesman in your sleep. In our two-day online workshops, you'll learn how to create a library of organic content that is up everywhere.
Next. Now, same thing. So, the idea of this ad is I think it was like the organic salesperson. Now, what I'm going to do because I'm [ __ ] lazy is now rewrite the body, but the hook it needs to relate to is below. Most business owners are one bad month of ad spend away from their pipeline drawing out completely.
CPM's rising, leads get more expensive, and the second you turn budget off, it all stops. Content fixes that. But the problem isn't knowing you need it. It's the camera, the blank mind. The second you hit record, watching Peter Shop online looking sharp while you're still trying to film your first video. The business owners I work with leave a content field edited posted blah blah blah blah blah. Sounds good enough. All right, let's see what they got this time. I don't need one of them. It's nice. It's only on relevant comments.
Save. Cool. We'll name this ad three.
Now, I'm not going to continue making ads cuz I think you get the idea of this now. But what I will show you how to do is how to make more adsets. So what we'll do here is we go to we can start from scratch. I always just like duplicating stuff. That's my favorite workflow in Ads Manager. So I'll go duplicate duplicate original setup original.
This will duplicate both the ad set the settings and also the three ads that are within them. So I want to go cold.
So I'm going to warm Facebook and IG engages. All these settings copied over.
But what we do now is we get rid of advantage plus get rid of us as a suggestion and we can start adding custom audiences. So we can go custom audience. We can go website. Generally speaking, when it comes to my warm stack, I don't do hyper specific retargeting like, you know, if you visited this page, but not this page, you see these ads. I generally just go, did you touch Facebook or Instagram in the last year? Did you touch the pixel
in the last 180 days? And just jump like bundle them all into one. Let's just add in create custom audience Instagram profile. Talk to serve IG 365 days.
Create new custom audience Facebook page.
Now they've got this other [ __ ] sneaky toggle. This uses the suggestion thing. [ __ ] that off too. Now because I've duplicated this as well, I need to delete these suggestions for the demographics also. Otherwise, we'll make a vin diagram of the two. And then if I wanted to do now, if it's a warm audience, um you generally start with like a smaller one. So, honestly, this one's really hard to give you a math formula for. I would be able to work it out. I'm not going to be able to work it
out right now. But obviously, let's say this audience is only 2,000 people and we spend $100 a day on them. They're going to get exhausted very, very quickly. So, I'm actually not even going to launch with this one on. But when I do launch it, it's only going to be about 20 bucks a day. So, it might be like 20% of whatever I'm targeting in code. and then I'll publish that. Cool. Now, I'm going to turn this one off because when we do set up conversion tracking, now it's
very important that this is another do as I say, not as I do example, it's very important that you turn uh ads on with conversion tracking correctly set up because Facebook, as I've been hopping on about, is very, very, very, very smart. Um, generally speaking, if you just give it the right ads and like a decent landing page and you say, "Go get me leads," it will get you [ __ ] leads probably later that day. Um, but if it doesn't know about
it, what will happen is it will start getting incorrect because it go, I swear I thought this segment of the audience would work. What about these people? And then it will stop working and it will get worse and worse and worse and worse and worse because it was working in the first place. Didn't know about it. What it wanted to see was, "Oh, yeah, that worked." And then repeat and reinforce that existing successful action. Now, when Sev's got his conversion tracking set up correctly, I would simply go back
here, turn it on, and then everything will start going to process, go to review, and then it will start delivering ads, and then we can go through optimizations. Now, to show you what a finalized or what a [ __ ] big boy campaign looks like, this is how my campaign's set up. So, I've got one campaign using adset budget and then I've got multiple different adsets. Now, the annoying thing, at least for me anyway, the annoying thing with Ads
Manager is you can have a maximum of 50 ads per ads set. Now, that's fine until you have 288 ads active. So, what I do is I will segment up my ads and kind of like bundle them together.
So, like for example, I'll only do like warm ones, but I'll have like a skepticism of Brandon ads. So, let's say for example, I can't imagine why, but people are very skeptical of me. But if you're in my warm audience, I'll serve you ads um to kind of overcome that.
Like, I got this main skepticism one.
This is one where people like shake my hand at the end of a workshop. This is one where someone's like calling me out and I [ __ ] nukeked him. Like, this is one showing we have an office. Like all this different stuff, right? Whereas all of my cold ones, I kind of bundle them together. So these are the most recent April ones.
And I've got like 19 ads in here. I think there's some with Paty and it will just distribute them like that. And then once I hit like 50 ads, I just build another ad set. Um but it's nothing too over complicated. Um, in the past what I did, um, and it stopped working as well was I'd do basically like each of these would be like their own campaign. Um, and so I'd have like, you know, [ __ ] eight different campaigns,
all the one ad set and then like 50 ads in them. And then I think all the campaigns just started competing and just for whatever reason, like when I swapped to adset budget optimization, it just got way more stable. Like for example, if I showed you our dashboard for bookings, you'll see just how stable the bookings got. Um yeah, around here was when I swapped to um campaign budget. So if I go a little bit longer,
March, you can see like just how up and down it is. And then when I swap to April, it's all kind of within range like that. So, a lot less fluctuation dayto day, a lot more smoothed out rather for like [ __ ] massive highs and massive crippling lows.
Now that we've done the basic campaign, we need to understand some of the other opportunities that are available available to us with custom audiences and lookike audiences and how to set them up. All right, so there's a number of uh different audiences that you can use in Facebook. Now key thing to take into consideration now post Andromeda is audiences are now treated more as a suggestion and I don't want you to neglect the fact that the content that you put in your ads that being the
primary text the headline uh what you say in the video what you say in the images that has significantly more weight into who your ad will get served to. However, we still have access to these tools for now.
Like I can see a world uh and I think there's some accounts that's been rolled out to where like a lot of this stuff just has to go away and it's truly treated as suggestions. However, we have it for the time being. So, under the audiences tab, there's a couple of different ones we can do. Firstly, the very obvious one is saved audiences.
Now, um this could also be created, by the way, all of these can still be created um inside an ad set like as you're building your campaign. You don't know need to go to the audiences tab.
However, just for the purpose of this, it's just easier to show you this way.
So, audience would be um basically basic demographics. So, where are they located? As well as like gender and age.
So, this is quite simple here. Like there's just a drop down. If we wanted to do let's say Perth, we could drop that there. What we can also do is we can drop more pins. The other cool thing we can do as well is we can also exclude zones. Now I'll actually show you a really effective use case for this. So I learned this uh promoting nightclubs.
Now if you're a brick and mortar business, this is going to be like very very useful. So, let's say you are a local gym that's in like just slightly north. So, this is Perf. Um, this is like the main CBD here. So, this is the highest population density. Let's say you're a gym just north of the CBD like this. Now, let's
say I'll have members in the Whitney program and they'll come to us and be I'll be like, "Yeah, you're a local gym." And I'll ask like how far do members typically drive to get to you?
And they'll say something like, let's say it's five kilometers, something like that, right? Or um they might say it's like I think just for the purpose of this, I'm going to make it 7 km.
[ __ ] me. There we go. They'll say they'll drive up to 7 km. But what you'll notice is a 7 km radius will hit this like south of the river part here.
Now, humans are really interesting with where they will or will not go to travel to brick and mortar businesses. And so, let's say this is the example that I'm talking to a member. I'll say, "Yep, our gym's located here." And members will drive up to 7 km. I'll ask them, I'll go, "Hey, do 80% of your members come from north of you?" And pretty much every single time they'll say yes. It can work on the flip side. Let's say
they're down south here. I'll say do 80% of your members come from south rather than north and they'll say yes. And the reason for that is humans are interesting. They will travel towards large populations to like get to a brick and mortar business, but they will not travel past it. So what you can do is you can drop a pin down here. Let's say here.
And then I'm going to make this like 4 km.
I'm going to exclude it.
Maybe seven.
Yeah, I reckon it's going to be seven.
Yeah, something like that. Even like eight potentially. Yeah. Cool.
So what we've done there is we've ex set this radius but we've excluded um these people down here. Now another thing that you might notice is the people that live over here. They will travel to the city that way but they won't travel like up that way. And so we can also drop a pin here.
make it like seven kilometers again and then exclude that one, right?
Because the people that live like here, they'll just travel to stuff on the way to work, but they might not travel up that way. And so, like, see how there's these main roads here? You want to kind of be aware of like where the main roads are if people traveling north, south, east, west. I'll give you another example. So, like when I was working in nightife, let me delete all these pins.
when I was working in night life. Um, let's find Jundelot. Where the [ __ ] that, dude? I actually can't [ __ ] remember where it is. Let's just say it's here, right? So, this is a nightclub. Now, let's say the nightclub was there. I would drop the pin like that. But what I would notice is if someone was south um of this gym, sorry, of this nightclub, they wouldn't travel north to go to this nightclub. They would just travel towards the larger population.
And so I'd drop a pin there and I'd exclude that because people will travel from up here to towards the larger populations to get to that nightclub.
That some of them will travel past it, but it'll be incredibly uncommon for people to move away from the larger population densities and then travel to up to this isolated nightclub. So you need to consider that when you're a brick and mortar business like what direction will people travel from not just how far away are they because the distance is like a onedimensional uh measure where you need to measure it in like two dimensions like what which direction do they come from? Super
useful hack. Um we've also got the age.
We can enter custom audiences here now and we'll talk about custom audiences in a bit. So we've got age as a range. Now the way that you want to select ages is all right. So if we look at a normally distributed bell curve let's look at this right you want to think of like the very average age range and then like one standard deviation left or right of it. So sure
let's say your average age range is like 40. Don't go oh I've got a couple customers that are like 21. let's target 21 year olds. It's like no, let's just like go for the easy one. And so if the average range of your customers is like the like the exact median is like 35, you'd probably go like 30 to 40 or 28 to 42, something like that. Don't open it up heaps. Like don't try, oh like I reckon I'll get a couple 21. Don't do
that. Just [ __ ] go for the averages, right? Give yourself the best chance of success. Gender. Uh now detailed targeting. There's heaps of different options down here. Again, these are treated more like suggestions. Encourage you to click through these while you [ __ ] can. And Meta hasn't removed it.
You can go through education. So, their education level, fields of study. Oh, they're still schools and universities.
Can you That's pretty cool. I thought they removed that. No, they [ __ ] have. Allegedly.
They just taken away more and more [ __ ] Demographics. Uh, this financial, this income one, this only works for like the US.
Um, browse certain interests. I'd encourage you to click through all of these. Um, then you got behaviors. Um, if anyone's in the B2B space, just steal mine. You just want to do small business owners and then you'd have business page admins and then you'd have Instagram business profile. Yeah, generally speaking, when I do my interest, I go pretty direct
because it's again, it's going to take it as a suggestion and then it will also go, all right, well, if you're targeting this, I reckon these people as well. Um, one more thing, they they used to have this option uh to exclude audiences, right? So if you got a vin diagram, what you used to be able to do was kind of like how I showed with the um like with this um like this area but not this area. You used to be able to do that
with interest. So it might be like in I'll give you a perfect example, right?
So um the interest stack for industry set so it's for electronic music producers. They need to make like house dubstep, drum bass, stuff like that. Our interest stack used to be interested in Ableton, Logic, like all these different like music production softwares and plugins. But the problem with that was a bunch of hip-hop artists and rappers would come through and we just can't help them in our program. So we went interested in all this this software but then exclude people that
were interested in hip-hop rap. And so it basically just got rid of all them and just boiled it down to the electronic music producers and bass music producers. Now that they've gotten rid of that um we have to be careful in like the copying the content that we have. So we noticed that certain ads just attracted more rappers. So if like if we use the language of and we've already sp we've spoken about this with Sev where it's like the very specific language you use in the first hook.
um like for industry set it was we found that if we said music producers that was too vague and so rappers would come make beats right then we got slightly closer with like electronic music producers and then we just noticed from the data that a lot of like rappers would still go [ __ ] it I' like Ableton's electronic and I make it and so they'd still come through so then I changed it to bass music producers which is pretty [ __ ]
specifically like just step for drum and bass. To be clear though, rappers [ __ ] Oh, there's an 808 [ __ ] bass drum. I swear to God. But again, it's all dials, not switches. Like, we're just trying to give ourselves the best chance of success. However, rappers still haunt me. Um, but used to have that option. They got rid of that now.
They have, however, graced us with uh allowing us to continue using the narrow audience. So what this allows us to do is go interested in this and whatever else we put into here. So in the vin diagram that would be this and this which lands us in the middle of this cross-section here. So what you might do is like let's say for example you wanted to uh find uh business owners that were interested
in fitness physical fitness. You might do like that cross-section. And so this is an example of like this and this. So in the ven diagram it would be like small business owners, business page admins, Instagram business profile admins and interested in fitness. And so just find the cross-section of that there. Let's talk about custom audiences now. So custom audiences are audiences that you can make based off of people's behaviors. So if you go create audience custom
audience, all these different sources that you can have. So you've got like your website, customer lists. I've never used app activity because I've never used like software, never used offline activity either. Um never used catalog.
Oh, you might have in the past with e-commerce. However, I'll also I'll use video quite um sometimes. Instagram profile, lead forms, a lot of you will use events. I would have used more when it came to like nightlife events and stuff like that. Facebook page, haven't used any of the other ones. Um, let's look at website because this is a really really strong one. So, you need the pixel or data set, whatever your version of the interface is calling it that [ __ ] week. So, if you go to website,
you can find like your pixel and you can do there's a number of different options under that. You can go all website visitors. So, this would be anyone that has hit not just your website, but your funnel. Um, you got to be careful with the lingo there. So, anyone that's hit the pixel at all, wherever it's installed.
You can also go by people who visited specific web pages. So people that just went to your landing page and not your website or one very specific um funnel.
So for example, like if I wanted to do a retargeting or let's say I'm running a call funnel and a webinar funnel and I just want to retarget the people that visited the webinar funnel reminding them about the webinar. Um, I would do people who visit a specific web page and then I'd type in the URL of like the l landing page or the thank you page perhaps with uh website audiences. You can go up to 180 days. Yeah, they
haven't changed anything there. So, who visited specific web pages? You can also go visitors by time spent. Honestly, I've never actually used this one. Uh, you can also go by different events. So people that have become a lead, people that have scheduled just different other conversion actions and stuff like that there. Generally speaking, the only one that I really use is all website visitors. So if anyone's hit my pixel, I typically go up to about 180 days. One of the temptations I'd like to kind of
talk you out of is trying to get especially at smaller budgets like trying to get really really clever with your targeting. like I'm gonna do like if someone's spent 25% more time on my landing page, I'm going to show them these specific ads. And if someone has done like 10 seconds of this video, I'm going to show them this next video. It's just like don't be a [ __ ] nerd. Just chad advertise. Close enough is good enough. Actually, that's one of the things I say in the workshop. Like
your attitude with targeting should be close enough. Like you'll never like especially with your cold targeting.
like don't go, "Oh, I need like this really specific niche targeting thing." Like it's just not the way that Facebook ads works anymore. Um maybe back in 2017, 2018 you could have considered it like that, but now it is broad targeting. It will get just accept the fact that it will get seen by people that you don't want to see it, but we are dealing with percentages. Um like you're never going to get a 100% link clickthrough rate, right? Because it's going to get served to the wrong people.
All we're trying to do is optimize things. So, close enough is good enough.
So, that's website visitors. Um, the next one is customer lists. Now, I actually haven't used this one quite a while. So, you can create a customer list. So, if you have an email list, it's got like a file template you can use and so you can import them.
Basically, you want like their name, their email address, their phone number.
It will also give I think like postcode and address and stuff like that. And essentially you just upload a CSV file of your customer list or like your email database. It will get uploaded and with all these custom audiences there is a essentially a loading time to the custom audiences. So when you create a custom audience it will say next to it like populating or something like that. What that's doing is you've given it the rules to who you want to look for. Now it's just figuring out like all right like who's in here? Like is it this person, this person, this person, this
person? It used to populate really quickly. Now I think it's pretty [ __ ] slow. like it might take a day or two to populate and then show you like the actual audience size. Now, with the email list, it's not 100% accurate. So, the thing with the email list as well, or the customer list, I should say specifically, is you need a fairly substantial list because let's say you have an email list of a,000 people. Well, after matching, like after it goes, oh yeah, this is this Facebook profile's email.
This is this person. This is this person. This is this person. you might only get like a 50% match rate, which means that if you upload an email list of a,000 people, it might only match it with 500 Facebook users or meta users, which isn't very significant unless you have, and again, this is a um this is kind of a how long is a piece of string question. Unless you have like 10,000 people in a customer list and it's matching with at least 5,000 people, I
probably wouldn't use it. The other thing as well is customer lists are typically used to create lookalike audiences which um I'm going to talk about in a second. And if you have a really really small audience, it won't be able to calculate the commonalities between people to create a more accurate lookike audience, but I'll talk about that in a moment. Now, we can also do this with videos. We can create custom audiences with videos. We can do people that viewed at least 3 seconds of a video, 10 seconds of a video, 25% of a
video. We can also select like specific videos as well. So if someone watched 10 seconds of this video, generally speaking, the only way, there's two ways that I would ever really use this one.
Number one is I pretty much never use the watch 3 seconds because 3 seconds, it's just 1 second longer than the average view duration. 1.2 seconds longer than the average view duration.
So there's not very much engagement. 10 seconds is is pretty decent to be honest. Most videos don't get viewed for 10 seconds like very often. And so if someone's watched at least 10 seconds of your video, they're pretty well engaged.
What I might use this for is let's say someone has watched 10 seconds of my video ads, I will show them like I'd put them into a warm retargeting your audience potentially. Especially when you are a new advertiser, you don't have as many likes, comments, pixel hits.
This can be a good way to kind of populate that warm audience a little bit more. Yeah. So Aiden's um asking like should you ever exclude um customers?
You can. I choose not to. I get asked this question in the workshop all the time. It's usually like phases a joke where they're like, "Hey, now I've done the program. Can you stop [ __ ] spamming me with ads?" And I say no.
It's actually an option. Like if I really wanted to, I could probably upload just a customer list and it it'd match pretty well. But I like we have very very very positive word of mouth.
And so what you'll notice is if I film ads in a workshop, our members that were like in that workshop will like leave testimonials in the comments. And so you have to consider like all the different sources of information that potential customers will look at. So they don't just look at your landing page like they look at the comments. And so if people look at our ads and like I just saw one this morning with like Roxy, she was like, "Oh, Brand," she was laughing going, "Brandon, stop swearing in your ads." Because that's like an inside joke that people just complain about that in her ads. And she goes, "Also, anyone
like reading this like sign up. These guys are legit." Like that's very positive like propaganda. Like it's not something that I like uploaded to a landing page and like selected. It's something that like one of our customers just commented on a post. You can click through to Roxy's profile, see if she's legit. They can also like message Roxy and and say like, "Hey, like I saw this.
Like what's your experience been?" You need to consider all these things, especially in a super skeptical market.
Like this is by far the internet hasn't been around for very long, but this is by far the most skeptical people have ever been because enough time has passed where people have been using the internet, been advertised to on the internet and have bought things they purchased because they were advertised to on the internet. And they everyone's been burnt at least once, more often than not, more than once. And so they're hyper skeptical. So, it's incredibly common for people before they enroll in the Wiki program, they'll like find members that were in their testimonials, they'll find their business and like
contact them through like their website form or something like that. Or if they comment on Instagram, they'll like DM them and ask for their um response because they won't just come to you as a single source of information because they know like I just like I'm picking the testimonials. Of course, I want you to see the best ones, but they want to see like, hey, if this person lists a testimonial, sure, was 6 months ago, but how do they feel about them now? And they want to have a conversation with people. I experience this all the time.
Like, because I do so many coaching programs and I'm a relatively recognizable face on the news feeds of business owners in Australia, I get used in a lot of people's ads cuz I leave people testimonials when they do good work. And so, I will get messages from people saying, "Hey, I saw you did this program. Like, what did you think of it?" And I'm like, "Man, did you [ __ ] watch the video?" because I think the exact same thing. But they want to know like, hey, you might have recorded this like months ago. Do you feel still still feel like this? And so that's the long answer as to why I don't exclude customers from seeing my ads cuz I want
them to comment nice [ __ ] cuz I do. We can also target Instagram profiles. So basically, you just select your profile, anyone who engages with the account.
There's all this different stuff you can do. I pretty much just use that one every time. You can go up to 365 days with this one. That's generally what I do as well. Sometimes I might play around like the last 90 days. What you might want to consider when it comes to selecting like this uh audience retention is what's the average like lead to sale time. So if it takes someone like I don't know 30 days on average to become a customer, I might just target for like the last 90 days or something like that. And then we can
also do Facebook page. This is very similar to um Instagram but obviously just like the Facebook profile. And you can go again up to 365 days. If you're running lead forms, which I generally don't suggest, you can do it. And again, everything will work to a degree.
Generally, in my experience, lead forms will get you decent quantity leads, but very poor quality leads. And then it becomes a numbers game. So, the reason for that is it's very low physical and psychological resistance. And then also, you don't on the lead form get a chance to communicate testimonials, FAQs, all this stuff. So you'll get people like opting in not knowing what they opted in for because it wasn't as clearly communicated as it could have been if you had built a dedicated landing page that they could scroll through. So lead
forms are just a onplatform feature that Facebook provides. So if you don't have a landing page, basically it will build a lead form that like if you see an ad, you click it, a lead form will just pop up on Facebook without having to go to like an external URL. It loads really really quickly. Um, and then the leads get uploaded to like a CSV file in Facebook. If you um can manually download the CSV, but using tools like Zapia, you can like sync them to your CRM system and stuff like that. It's all it also [ __ ] really pushes this
thing. And so what you'll notice is like when you build the campaign, you'll go, "All right, I want to like lead generation campaign." And then when you make the ad, it will be like, "Hey, do you want any add-on?" I think it calls them add-ons. So like, yeah, I want to send them to the URL, but every now and then it will try and just like, hey, you just want to like send them to this [ __ ] lead form. And then the I think the reason it does that is because it looks like your account is doing better because like it is technically getting leads, but the lead quality is really
really poor. And so if think someone's going to respond to a lead form more easily, it's just going to send them that one, but the lead quality is going to be [ __ ] And you got to go, "No, I don't want any add-ons. I don't want to [ __ ] call this WhatsApp number or like generate a lead form. I just want them to go this [ __ ] URL." The lead quality is always really really poor on um lead forms because of this. There's such little physical and psychological resistance. Like all it is is you click it. You can't add like testimonials. You can't add FAQs. Pretty limited in the questions that you can put in. And so
there's very low physical and psychological resistance. They aren't educated through the landing page and what you do. You can't put a VSSL there.
You can't like add different sections.
You're fairly limited. But it's very easy for people to fill out. But we actually had this incredibly unique problem back in 2020 2021. We had this forklift hire company as a client. They had this really [ __ ] weird problem where they were getting all these dud leads through, but it was actually just kids playing on their parents' iPads and then like just like clicking stuff because it would autofill their contact details just based off their Facebook profile. And so you just like hit two or
three buttons and it would submit this lead form. They'd call the leads. I don't remember [ __ ] doing that. We worked out it was like kids playing on iPads. So I think we added like a like what's 2 + 7 question the [ __ ] lead form and if they didn't say nine that is like didn't get through but then they probably also disqualified some lower IQ. I mean do you really want the lower IQ leads if they can't 2 plus 7? Most people know what 2 plus 7 is anyway. And as a service-based business those are
pretty much all of the custom audiences that you're going to do. Now, there's one more thing, which is lookalike audiences. Now, this is where the art versus science comes in again when it comes to advertising. I don't [ __ ] use lookalike audiences. A lot of our team will use lookalike audiences quite a lot. I'm more of a advertiser and it's like, "Yeah, [ __ ] it. Close enough's good enough. I'll just let the ad content do the targeting." But what you can do with a lookalike audience is you select a source. Now, the source has to be a custom audience. So, you just
select whatever custom audience you want. What it's going to do is you're going to select the [ __ ] did they just change this? You no longer select audience location while creating a look like. This means that new look likes won't show an estimated audience size in ads manager. What the [ __ ] All right.
Just goes to show how [ __ ] long it's been since I've used lookike audiences.
Now, the way lookike audiences used to work was you selected your custom audience and then you selected your country. And what it would do is you'd load this percentage here. So a 1% lookalike would find the 1% of Australian users for Facebook that look the most like your source audience. So what it's going to do is let's say you have 30,000 people in that have hit your pixel and then you upload that as a lookike audience. It's going to look at the
30,000 people, see what they have in common, see the commonalities between age, gender, location, interest, browsing activity, like all the creepy information that Facebook has about you that you don't really [ __ ] truly know about, and go, "All right, what do they all have in common?" And then it will go find the 1% of Australian users that go and um that look the most like those people. But it seems like they've updated that since I [ __ ] last used this in like the last year. Uh now it's just not based off location. and you find out once you make your ad account.
But that's lookike audiences. Lookike audiences can be good when you have a really really good source audience. But again, I'm [ __ ] lazy and frankly I think it's pretty bold to assume that you know more about who to show your ad to than Facebook when Facebook has so many [ __ ] trillions of data points on like every [ __ ] human on Earth. Just like let it do its job. It's pretty [ __ ] good at it. It's not just enough to get leads. You also need to be able
to close those conversions into dollars in the bank. So, I'm going to teach Sev sales. Now, this is something that Sev has always struggled with in the past because he doesn't like sales. So, we're going to teach him a non-salesy sales process so that he can be more comfortable with it and actually converting people into customers. So, now that you're getting bookings in the calendar, we need to actually have conversations with these people to convince them to enroll. Now, a couple things we'll cover. Firstly, I want to cover mindset. I [ __ ] hate the fact that I have to say I had to do a mindset module for sales, but it's actually
really really important and it's been a problem for you in the past. Then we will go through like the rough structure for a sales call. I don't like scripts.
Some people do. Like I think Cedric, who's our top sales rep at the moment, literally just reads a script word for word and just works for him. Um if you ask Tim who um was head of sales now as GM/COO like if you ask him what's the sales process he'd be like yeah just ask them how the day has been have a conversation with them do the feedback story ask if they wanted to do this or that and then on board them. So I'm very much more in Tim's camp where we focus on the process
rather than what exact words do I say.
But you've kind of got to figure out where you are on this spectrum of >> sales spectrum >> like of like process orientation. Yeah, there's a couple >> I've gone extreme on both ends and I'm still trying to narrow down um which works best for me, but at the moment it is more the >> uh the Tim method. It's it's more natural for me. Word for word has worked for me in the past, but just doesn't
feel natural. Yeah. Um, but you need to avoid something Tim and I refer to as the mad [ __ ] curve, but we'll get to that in a second. So, we'll go through the structure of the sales call.
>> Uh, then we'll go through like objection handling. There's you'll get a seemingly infinite amount of objections. They all fall into like three or four different buckets. Um, then we'll go into like tracking and CRM hygiene, which is like super important and sales reps are notoriously bad at it. Um, like really good at collecting money, really bad at admin, but it's so important. And then we'll go through like troubleshooting.
So like when should you start making changes, when should you freak out? But you can only do this if you do this correctly. Um, so firstly, like on the mindset front, like you've said in the past, you don't like [ __ ] sales, do you?
>> Uh, yes. But I've started to like them now.
>> Yeah. Because like most people like when they hear saleserson language is interesting for humans because you can say any word and it will either bring up positive or negative feelings or a mix of both. Most people have negative associations towards the term salesperson because they associate it with like just sleazy car sales people, which is funny because Tim used to work in car sales, right?
>> But if your opinion of sales is that it's sleazy and it's slimy, then your behaviors will reflect that and you'll have this natural resistance. It's kind of like how people that think every single billionaire or millionaire on earth is evil is always going to stay poor because they have to again we've talked about this in like the philosophy section like they have to go through life assuming their view of the world is correct and so they'll just behave in a
way that reflects that. So, if your view of sales is like, I hate salespeople, then you're going to your brain even subconsciously is going to act as much as it possibly can in a way to prove yourself right and that it doesn't [ __ ] work.
um when you can reframe it and the easiest way to do it that I've done with most people is to think of and I get them to do this morning day one is to think of like your top customers like like the ones that would like sing your praises from the rooftop. Just think of like where they'd be if you didn't convince them to enroll. It's usually pretty [ __ ] Um so that's the main thing. It has to come from an unselfish place that you're genuinely trying to
help them rather than just trying to solicit a transaction. And when you can do that, it's much more helpful. Like I use back when we used to teach sales in the workshops, we changed it out for something else cuz it was more important. But I would talk about how um like when I had the DJ school, like I had like a [ __ ] 80% close rate. If I didn't close someone, I wasn't mad that I didn't get the transaction. I was mad at myself because they'd spent like 30 minutes talking about how they wanted to be a DJ. [ __ ] parents said they couldn't do it. Friends didn't believe them and then I just couldn't get them
over the line. They'd probably get to like their mid-30s or 40s like [ __ ] I could have tried that thing. So, that's the first thing. I'm not going to be able to erase that from you right now, but that's something you're just always going to be working on. The second thing, which I've told you before, is you want to lean more on being a therapist than a consultant. So, um, pretty much every nearly every single business owner I've worked with, um, has
always lent on being a consultant because you've been doing this for like [ __ ] over a decade. And so all the stuff that's really, really, really, really, really basic to you, it's like [ __ ] PhD level to everyone else. And so what happens is your information dump on them because and sometimes it often it comes from a good place like you're trying to show your expertise like look how much I know because you think that
will make them go oh this person clearly knows what they're talking about I should hire this person but what happens is they just get confused and you watch on the Zoom call they'll nod and like smile but their brain's thinking I don't get it. this isn't for me. I feel dumb.
This is stupid. I don't get it. I'm confused. And a confused mind just doesn't buy. So remember, the brain has like system one, system two, thinking fast, thinking slow. If we're constantly talking about features and expertise, it the brain's just going to [ __ ] slow down and not make any goddamn decisions.
So we need to find that balance. And again, key word there is balance with emotion. Another similar example is like Diana, who's my voice coach. So I watch some of her call recordings.
She has such an [ __ ] deep understanding of the human voice. She could do a [ __ ] three and a half hour human lab podcast about why you said um in a meeting. And so I'd watch her call recordings. Someone would say, "Yeah, I like I'm in like a team meeting." And she would go on for like 8 and 1/2 minutes about like the deep neuroscience of why they said um and then the person's like, "Oh man, yeah, that makes a lot of sense." And they smile, but like they never [ __ ] enrolled.
And so she was also al also teach too.
You're a teacher as well and so you want to teach. You kind of have to like suppress it. And it sounds a little bit evil, but you need them to just understand they have a problem. We don't worry about solutions yet. It's just agitating the problem. So what will happen is like let's say I say, "Yeah, I just don't really know what to post for content." your knee-jerk reaction is typically to just [ __ ] tell me what to post.
>> But that closes the loop in my head. It makes me go, "Oh yeah, that like I feel better now." But if you just go, "Oh, yeah, cool." And then you like poke at it a little bit more. So like for example, you could say therapist, you could say like doctor, but what we're not is like the [ __ ] pharmacist giving them the solution, right? So when you um like you're doing it well now. So like when I sit down in front of a do well I haven't [ __ ] been to a doctor in a while. I should probably go. But like if you sit down in front of a
doctor and go, "Yeah, like my stomach sore." They don't go, "Oh yeah, that's been going around heaps. Take three of these. Come back next week." Like how much would one you wouldn't really [ __ ] trust their their diagnosis because they did [ __ ] all. But what a good doctor does is is ask probing questions, which we'll get to. So you want to lean more on therapist, not consultant. If you ever watch your call recordings and find yourself talking about your expertise rather than just
asking questions, dial it back. Right.
So therapist is just asking questions >> and then sort of like reiterate what they said in different ways for them to go, yeah, that is that is it. Yeah.
>> Which is what we're going to do there.
Any questions about any of this first stuff?
Um, just kind of reiterating what you said in terms of being unselfish.
If you're unselfish in a way that you're wanting them to succeed, the sales call is feels more natural, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And then like another thing is not caring about the outcome too much. Um, this is getting into like sports psychology a little bit, but you have, and Cameron Norworthy taught me this, you have process goals, you have performance goals, and you have outcome goals. And when you try and approach performance from an outcome perspective, like sale or no sale,
that's it's [ __ ] nearly impossible to find a flow state. But when you approach it from a process perspective, it's significantly easier to find a flow state. Let's say for example, you're playing chess. When you're focusing on like the endgame or like the win lose, that's when you [ __ ] up. But when you're just focus on given the move that they just made, what is the best next move on the board and you just calculate that, that's when you that's when you do well in sales. And so sales is very much the
same. It's given what that person just said to me, what's the next lo next next best logical question to ask them. What will sometimes will happen with sales reps is they'll do um when they're doing outcome focusing, what you'll notice is in their call recordings, someone will say something and the sales rep will just read the next question on their script and had [ __ ] nothing to do with it. So like if this is like your ch your sales chessboard, right? They moved
here. the next logical move is probably like, "Yeah, move there." But they're like, "I don't know what to post on organic content." And they'll be like, "How long have you had your business?" It's like it's like the next thing on the board. And you get really shallow answers, right?
>> How many uh would you say typically follow-up questions is acceptable? Three, five, >> three. Three is it depends obviously, but like two to three. Yeah.
>> Yeah. But we'll get there.
>> So, it's kind of like uh those podcast guests when they just go question, answer, question, answer. You want to kind of >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Go through a little bit.
>> Just the process, right? It's like It's silly. It's kind of like when >> It reminds me of how people can't be on camera. Like, they've been speaking English their entire [ __ ] life, but just because something's recording, they they jumped to this. Actually, it's funny. I was because the UFC, it was Saturday. I was watching UFC posted this video with Quillin and he said that he lost a couple of fights and then he started winning when he was like just going in there not caring about the outcome. It's like whatever happens
happens. That's kind of what you want to do. I heard that I was like, "Oh, he's just doing that." Like I'm going to get hit. I'm going to hit them. He [ __ ] bash some dude in the weekend. It's working out for >> Yeah.
>> Cool. So therapist, not consultant.
>> Yeah. And there the therapist, not consultant part. Um, definitely something that I've learned from you in the past is >> don't answer the questions. Uh, give them more questions.
>> Yep.
>> Cool. So, let's get into the structure of a sales call. So, um, typically speaking, you'd be doing your sales call on Zoom. I always like doing it on Zoom because you can like see them. They're assuming their webcam [ __ ] works and [ __ ] like that.
>> And make sure they're not driving.
>> Yeah. You can like you can share their screen. You share your screen, stuff like that. So the first thing we want to do is again like one of our top 10 principles is meet them where they're at. So every buyer is going to come in like we talked about curious versus committed. Every buyer is going to come in at different levels. Like some people are going to be referrals and they're like a [ __ ] nine. Other people are just like they saw you on Instagram [ __ ] this morning and now they're speaking to you. Like we've got to
figure out where they're at so we can tailor the sales conversation specific to them. So, if you hopped on a sales call with one of our sales reps, it would simply just be, "Cool. Just give us a little bit of a story, your situation, why you reached out." >> They're naturally going to give you a pretty surface level answer cuz it's pretty early on in the call. Some people are just going to be like a [ __ ] what does Jeremy call them? Like a D1 yapper.
They're just going to give you their [ __ ] life story and like all their childhood trauma.
>> Do you let them?
>> No. You got to keep them on rails, right? You can reduce that by setting the agenda. So when you say this, that's basically just figuring out like, yeah, they're in the right place. They've got the right problems and stuff like that.
>> We can speak to them for another 30 minutes.
>> If they come in and they're just like super dead [ __ ] cold. Like what I mean by that is I don't know, they literally don't remember what the [ __ ] call was about. Like they had the wrong problem. So like wrong industry for example. like they lied about their industry and their application form or something like that which won't happen often but you can save a lot of time here for the like 1% of leads that come through with those super duds. So then what we want to do is set the agenda. Now what this prevents happening is what you were just
talking about before which is I think like was this the [ __ ] wolf of Wall Street? He calls it like the straight line sales system or something like every [ __ ] sales trainer has like their own systems and names for things.
They're all just iterations of each other. But basically like if this and this is his analogy like if this is like your line for like where they start you're just trying to push them along like this and then sometimes it'll just go up and you go no no no no back down here like that. What setting the agenda does is says, "We're going to do this, then we're going to do this, then we're going to do this, then we're going to do this, and then we'll talk about the pro
offer and the price." And so they can see like what's going to happen that stops them like wandering off in like different directions going over time because what we want to do is I always like saying like you want a lean sales process, right? Which is there's certain things we want to get them to say.
Ideally, we want to get them to say it in as few conversations as possible. So, like if you really wanted to, if you got someone to say like if we got someone to say they had they've been with their fourth agency, it hasn't [ __ ] worked out for them. They're convinced they can do this themselves and they're available on those dates, we can close someone like 12 minutes, but we have to like keep them on this track. So, it's kind of like I think someone used an analogy with me once where it's like, you know, if you go to like university and you do like a tour day or the open day and you
got like a 4hour tour, you want to know like when do I when do we have lunch?
Like when am I going to the toilet and otherwise you're just like, I'm just going to [ __ ] wander off, right? What this happens is like first I'm going to talk about this, then we're going to talk about this and you're basically just going through this which is like I'm going to ask you some questions. ask me any questions along the way. Then like I'll explain like if it makes sense, we'll go through like the offer, make sure that makes sense. We can go through the dollars and cents. Then I can answer any any other questions that come up. If everything makes sense, we can get started at the end of this call,
etc., etc., etc. So, this just stops them going like in the back of their mind going, "So, when are we going to [ __ ] like talk about the offer?" Cuz otherwise, what might happen is you start asking questions and they're like, "Man, just just tell me how much it's going to cost." and they try and jump there because they don't know if they're ever going to talk about it, right?
>> Yeah. So, preempt that and know, let them know that it will get there.
>> Yep. Yeah. So, it could be as simple as cool. Um, yeah, it sounds like you're you're in the right place just after this one. Here's what we're going to do.
I just got to ask you some deeper questions just to make sure this is a really good fit and I can actually tailor this for you. If I feel like it makes sense, I'll go through explain how what working together looks like. Go through the dollars and cents.
>> Feel free to ask any follow-up questions after that just to make sure it's a good fit. If it is a good fit, we can get started at the end of this call and we can talk about what that looks like.
Make sense? You get their agreement.
Now, >> simple as that.
>> This is a quick jump to objection handling for a brief moment.
>> Uh, do you ask them early on if there's anyone else that should be on the call with them?
>> I usually don't. Uh, >> because because if they have a business partner that they need to ask after, >> Yeah.
>> wouldn't it be more valuable for them both to be on the call?
>> Yeah. This is kind of like a do as I say, not as I do thing. Um, it would be best to like in the ner sequences, you try and get someone else to rock up to the call. If they mentioned or like there's someone else in the calendar invite, I'll say, "Hey, like should we just reschedules like for when Todd's here?" That would be best. If they insist like, "No, I'll just talk to Todd later." You just like, "Fuck it, whatever." It's really up to you. You got to read a room because sometimes people are like, especially like B2B space, they're experienced buyers.
They're like, "Dude, I don't want to [ __ ] do this runaround thing." M >> behind a read a room. Some sales trainers are going to get mad at me about that one. But then what we do is remember that the very first exercise we did was the customer avatar. Literally all you do is that exercise with them.
Like it's the easiest what the easiest way to think about sales is it's called a customer avatar, not a [ __ ] prospect avatar. And so like if they say a bunch of these things, like all you're doing is you can like literally like print out your custom avatar and then the game just becomes like what question do I need to ask to get them to say this? Ah, sweet. Like I got one. And then do you remember the two, you might not remember this was weeks ago. Do you remember the two questions that we ask
when we do the customer avatar to like expand on it more?
>> It's why or then what?
>> Oh yeah.
>> Right. So if it's like cool so like tell me about like what are your goals when it comes to and you do the same order you do this this this in that order right so we end on uncomfortable [ __ ] so it'll be like cool like tell me a little bit about like what your goals are with content oh so I want to get more leads right and then we ask why or we ask then what so what that might sound like is like cool so like why do you have enough
leads at the moment And now it might not necessarily sound like why but we want to think outcome based thinking right so it would be like okay cool like how many leads you getting at the moment it's like I'm getting let's say 10 a week it's like cool that sounds pretty good um do you is 10 enough no actually I need to be getting 20 oh okay so then we establish this gap right which is I need to double my leads right then we can lean on this question which is all right
so if we double our leads is what does that unlock for the business? And they go, "Oh, well, actually, yeah, that lets me hire my first staff member." >> Okay, cool. Um, what? And then we can do the then what in the other direction, which is okay. So, if if we don't hire a next person that like what does that mean like 6 months from now? They go, "Oh, I'm still going to be doing all the work." Right? Now, what you had to
remember is, and I think I've drawn this for you before, like when I was texting you, is like if you have an iceberg, that's like the first thing that they say when you answer a thing, but there's all this [ __ ] down here. And so they're like, what what they said was, "I want more leads." It's like, no [ __ ] But what it might actually turn down to is I have a kid coming in eight months.
I need to be able to hire someone so I can spend time with them.
>> Right.
>> So the sense of urgency is a lot greater when you amplify this bit.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's similar to what I was talking about before with like the chess analogy, right? So responding to their move. So we don't go, "Okay, cool. So we want more leads.
How long have you been in business for?" Like you just completely [ __ ] jumped like no like go there. They said that for a reason, right? So you just ask why or then what.
>> Yeah.
>> And then the same thing in the other direction, right? So we do like we do a couple of these why and then whats and then we jump to the away from motivator.
So what are they moving away from? Now they might actually kind of naturally do this themselves like they would want to get off the tools or something like that. But we go first we go where are you at? Where do you want to go? What are we avoiding? And what have you tried in the past? You can't skip this thing.
Because what you want them to be able to say is, "I've tried everything except your thing or your way of doing this thing." That make sense?
>> Yeah. With this here, how do you do this in a way that doesn't feel like I mean, the mindset at the moment is I've seen this structure before and I've had sales people do it to me before. feel that this has become a regular pattern that can become recognizable.
>> How do I avoid thinking about it like that?
>> Just making it more conversational. And then the other thing you had to think of as well is our sales reps notice this all the time is you've had this conversation with someone hundreds of times. For them, it's their first.
>> Yeah.
>> And so like they're saying, "I need to get more leads." And you had to be like, "Oh, I haven't [ __ ] HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE. YOU KNOW, WOW, REALLY? Someone else, it's their first time having this conversation.
>> I guess it helps being a like a former wedding photographer, they've never [ __ ] been married before, so it's like first time having a conversation.
Just got to translate that sort of mindset there.
>> Yeah. Um the other thing is the other thing as well sorry remember your question is the other thing as well is >> if you if you say it they can question it >> but if they say it they have to behave in a way that aligns with that identity they've given themselves >> right that is also an extension of because you've heard this a 100 times you you assume all of their problems because they're all they're all kind of in the same sorts of buckets right but if I tell you it's sorry it's
significantly more powerful if you say, "Yeah, I really need more leads cuz I got a kid coming in a couple of months and like I I won't have the time to spend time with them." Rather than if I told you, >> Sev, you have a kid coming in a couple of months, you're not going to have time, right? So, you've got to get them to say it out loud, which is why the game is what question do I need to ask them to get them to say as many of these out loud and then just like cool, got it. So, it's like got it. Got it. I
never played Jeopardy.
>> Nice.
>> I didn't have a childhood, so >> clearly.
>> Sorry. What was your question?
>> Uh, how deep do you go before you It's enough.
>> Usually like two or three.
>> Two or three.
>> Why then? Why?
>> Yeah. Caveat to that. If you feel like they're hiding something from you, it's difficult to explain what that is. What you can do is like go in the other direction and try and say everything is fine. So let's say for examp I've done this a few times. So let's say for example they get on the call with you and everything they're saying is like yeah I got enough leads just like just curious about what you guys do and you and you probe around and like you know
you can kind of feel that they're hiding something. I honestly I just go man honestly it sounds like everything's all good. I don't think you actually need our help. And then they'll go, "Oh, no, actually this, this, and this." And then they go, "Ah, okay, cool. Got them." And then you talk about that, right? Or like it's basically best case scenario, both ones, because they either open up and tell you the truth or they say, "Yeah, actually things are great and you just save 20 minutes." >> Yeah. Yeah. To try to disqualify them.
Having that kind of with or without you attitude in the mindset going into it is everything.
>> It's just like, I don't really care about the outcome. I'm just here to help. If they don't need help, then just send them on their >> Well, without being a consultant.
>> Yeah.
>> Any other questions about the discovery process? And the main thing you got to remember is like as they're saying these, just don't say the solution.
>> No.
>> Yeah.
>> No, you just ask another question.
>> Um, and then yeah, just get to the the third one. Just just go over that one more time. And >> so it's basically like, cool. So we want this, this, and this so we can avoid this, this, and this. What have you tried in the past? I've tried um yeah running ads or I've tried an agency or whatever whatever and all I'm in is debt.
>> Yep. And yeah, so you just go like cool like what do you like about working with them and they'll go oh I like this but and then the brain has like a negativity cognitive bias and so they're going to lean on the negative things as well.
>> Yeah.
>> And so cool like is there anything else that you've tried? Um, and then throughout this you're also trying to establish urgency. So like when do I need to do this by? Now urgency can be created in two different directions. It can be created like there's a deadline coming up like a significant live event or something like that. But it can also be created by oh [ __ ] I've been trying to do this for two [ __ ] years, right?
And then that's avoiding spinning their wheels. And so as you're doing this why or then what this then what can also be an extension of like well if I don't do this now then what happens is I'm [ __ ] in like 6 months time right or it could be in the other direction which is like how long have you been experiencing this for?
>> Yeah.
>> So that's basically just like a time question. Then what you do is the recap.
This is super important because if you imagine like a beaker and then all your questions are like a Bunson burner.
You're like slowly like raising the water to boil and then when you recap it, that's when it like boils over >> because they're like I'm just so [ __ ] uncomfortable in my situation. And the goal is they have to be uncomfortable enough in their current situation that it has the pain of staying where they are simply outweighs the pain of doing something different.
>> Yeah.
>> So we recap it. You want to keep this lean as well.
>> So we don't want to go cool. So you want to get uh more leads because like this is really important, this is really important, this is really important. You started the business in 2012 and you started it with your business partner and your business partner was the like that's not relevant. you you just repeat the things back to them which were the most important. So it's like I need more leads for this really important reason.
I need to avoid this because I got atto bills and you've tried seemingly everything in the past. Have I got that right? Have I missed anything? Like what else do I need to know?
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Just so like it's like a 30-cond statement of like Jesus Christ, I'm [ __ ] And then that's when it boils over. So we need to recap that. That's going to be like 30 seconds. And you ask like, "Hey, is there anything else?" Because they might add, "Yeah, actually this, this, and this." No, cool. Like, you got a little bit more juice there.
Then simply all we do is the feedback story arc. You basically just repeat back to them the VSSL like the same thing. But as you're doing it, what you want to avoid is the feedback story art could be 5 to 7 minutes. You need to do it in a way so that it's a conversation.
So you basically you take out things that they said and then talk about them through the feedback story arc. So what that might sound like is so you said your number one concern was um actually like generating more leads. Like that's really where the workshop comes in. So we sit down with each other for two days. We do X Y and Z because we actually post something in the morning or usually around lunchtime on day one.
You might be getting leads that afternoon. You might be getting leads that second day. Like if you were getting leads on like the second day, like would that kind do you feel like that would move you in the direction towards you like getting more leads if you get them that quickly?
>> Cool. And then that's a poor example, but you want to do the feedback story arc in a way that's like conversational.
So asking questions like what you don't want to do is go cool, here's this, here's this, here's this. Here's this.
Here's this. Here's this. Is this is this? Here's this. Do you have any questions about any of that? It's like, yeah, I have [ __ ] a few, right? But put them all back.
But if we go Cool. So, there's this.
Does that make sense?
>> Yeah. Sweet. There's also this. Does that make sense?
>> I've got a few questions about this one.
>> Okay, cool. What are the questions?
>> Blah blah blah.
>> Yeah. Sweet. Make sense now?
>> Cool. And then there's this one. Like, could you see yourself using that one?
>> No. Okay, cool. We can take that one off. What about this one? Can you see yourself using that one?
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
>> Yeah. Cool. Why could you see yourself using that one?
>> It's green.
>> Okay, sweet. And is green's important to you?
>> Yeah, it's my favorite color.
>> Oh, see green is your favorite color?
Okay, sick. Like, see what I'm doing there? It's just like one by one rather than this massive stack of information that's like 7 minutes. Then it's like, [ __ ] I just missed all that. You do it bit by bit.
>> So, break it up. I think that's one of my big big ones I'm currently doing wrong actually now that you mentioned it like that is >> I actually picked myself up going I've actually talked way too long right now and I can >> I I can feel the confusion.
>> Yeah.
>> So break it down get the feedback and then move on.
>> Y >> okay >> and you only present the things that matter to them. So let's say for example >> based off that even if there's more stuff in the >> even if there's more >> just just mention the main stuff >> you only you only bring it up if they've already said it's important or they then ask for clarity.
>> So if they struggle mainly with camera confidence and maybe they don't have a system >> spam on that stuff >> don't go over.
>> Yeah. So okay let's talk about the camera confidence thing. So, let's say um you know, you say you you don't have um you don't have confidence on camera.
Yeah.
>> I'd say, "Yep, like if you're not confident on camera, we do X, Y, and Z." Oh, and also you're probably wondering like, "Do you need to buy camera equipment?" No. Like, you don't need to you didn't ask that. No.
>> Right. Just talk about that one thing in isolation. I see it all the time.
Someone will like because you got there's >> an infinite amount of [ __ ] things you can talk about. They'll ask, "How does this work?" Like, "How does a work?" Yeah.
>> And then you go A works like this, B works like this, C works. It's like I I just asked you about A.
>> So just just for that in terms of like the value of the workshop because that's kind of the mindset that I get stuck in.
It's like all right if they're paying a,000 2,000 3,000 whatever $1,000 for the workshop.
>> Yeah.
>> If they just have that one problem.
>> Yep.
>> That's still as valuable as the entire thing put together.
>> Yes. Like if we just fixed that one, would it be worth this? What else do you have? If they if they don't feel that that specific value >> of the entire workshop aligns with that one problem, >> is that when you can go into the the nuts and bolts or >> Yeah. That's where it gets a little bit tricky cuz like you'd be saying like look man like it's how much is it at the moment?
>> Two and a half.
>> Yeah. So it's like two and a half. It's like you you basically work out, hey, if you got like two stars, this thing pays for itself, right?
>> Yeah. That's the logical way to attack it.
>> Um >> Yeah. You get through the camera confidence, you start building more content out, and then you get two leads that convert and pay for the workshop.
>> Mhm.
>> And then you go beyond that. Is that worth your time?
>> Yeah, >> absolutely.
>> Often what happens is if they don't see the value, you probably haven't done this well enough because the value is the gap between where they're at and where they want to be.
>> Yeah.
>> And a clear understanding of then what?
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Dude, if you think this [ __ ] video is good, imagine what it will be like to sit down with me and the team for [ __ ] 2 days. Not just like watching this. You're not even [ __ ] taking notes, are you're just watching this. You're just watching this and not [ __ ] doing anything, aren't you? Cuz like you're like 10, you're like what?
[ __ ] eight or nine hours in at this point. Like I I wonder if Bren maybe the last 4 hours is [ __ ] No, I'm [ __ ] Dude, I got a [ __ ] book coming out and everything and you still think oh maybe this YouTube like don't get me wrong, this YouTube video is great. It took me [ __ ] 2 months to make. Imagine how well and how far you'll go as a business owner if you [ __ ] sat down with us for 2 days and then used any of the [ __ ] like 50 calls a week we have to support you.
Links in the description. But just just to tie back again cuz this is like the most common mistake people make is the process goal while you're doing that.
The customer avatar is just like given what they just said, what question do I ask next to get them to elaborate on that a little bit more. That's it. So the feedback story arc. So, we're just presenting this in a way that's conversational and just talking about the different features and we're doing tie down questions. So, as you present them something, asking is this useful?
Like, would you use this? Why do you say that? When do you think you would use that? And you're looking for patterns in their language that indicate like little green or potentially even red flags, right? So, let's talk about with you for example.
So, we got like 50 [ __ ] calls a week.
So, we'd like share our screen, show the calendar, and be like, "Cool." Like, um, we've got like 12 other calls going on today after this. Um, like when you and then you use assumptive language like cool like which call do you reckon you'd go to first this afternoon? Like, oh, I'd probably go to the meta call one.
Oh, sweet. Why do you say that? Oh, because I'm running meta ads at the moment. Um, I know I'm going to rebuild them in your workshop, but I just want to see if I can improve anything now.
It's like, yeah, sweet. I used to hop on like Kira's call this afternoon like 2 p.m.
>> Well, a red flag would be is like, "Oh, I don't know. I had to see if I have time." Then you know you got something to work on, right? So, you do all these little temperature checks as you're doing this. And so, let's say for example, you're you're doing a tie down question for the workshop. It might be something like, "Cool, like I usually do them like th like each week, Thursday and Friday. Like, would you be better like this week or next week?" they'll like, uh, yeah, like I'll have to check my calendar and see. Like, that's a
little bit of a red flag. But if they're like, "Yeah, sweet. Like, Thursday, Friday, I'm usually free. Like, I could probably move something next week." Like, that's a green flag, right? And so, it's all you're getting all these little yeses as you do the feedback story arc, like, "Yes, I would use this.
Yes, I would use this. Yes, I would use this. No, I probably wouldn't use that one. That's fine. Yes, I would use this one." Right? And so rather than asking for one big yes at the end, it's all these little micro commitments that they're doing.
>> Yep.
>> So that's the feedback story arc. And then the this or that. I had to credit Peter Lakovich to this one cuz when he [ __ ] taught me this, I was like, "Oh my god, I get it now." Um if anyone's got you probably do this with with your kid like you give them like do you want to brush your teeth now or later kind of thing, right? I think other people will call it um is it illusion of choice?
It's basically Oh yeah. Chris Voss refers to it as well as like illusion of choice. Like you can do this one or this one, but they're both the good outcome.
And so you always want to present two options that are both a yes. Now the way we do that is with price. So if you knock it out in one go, we give you a 10% discount or we can split it up over 6 months. Alternatively, what you can do is like packages or dates. So basically your pitch would turn into like price is X and you can either knock it out in one go or you can split it into two or what
you could do is price is X I got a workshop this week or next week and then of the two what are you leaning towards and then what we also want to do is just like we did tie down questions with the feedback story arc is we want to tie down and like confirm with them like okay cool so you want to do the upfront is it like yeah up front and get them to confirm that and then starting I don't know why this is such a [ __ ] problem with people, but like please, for the love of God, have a Stripe payment processor so you can actually collect someone's credit card details. Don't do
any of these [ __ ] bank transfer [ __ ] >> No, no invoicing or anything like that.
Just straight away be ready to pay.
>> Yeah. Like there's so much physical.
Imagine. All right. So, if you send someone an invoice, right? No [ __ ] It takes them [ __ ] ages to pay you because you've got to make the invoice, send them the invoice, land in their inbox, they've got to open it, they've got to download the PDF, they've got to [ __ ] read it for the like BSB, make sure that's all right, sign into their bank, >> log in [ __ ] com bank, like transfer it, do the net code. There's so much [ __ ] >> so much friction.
>> If you just have like, yeah, we can take Visa, Mastercard, or if you want to rack up some points on an MX, we can accept that also. Do you have another one of those handy? Now, this here is so one, collect payment on the call. None of this [ __ ] sending invoices afterwards [ __ ] Two, this is the part where you have to be like the coolest because like especially like beginner sales people, they just like start freaking out because it's like the most important part. You just like I think watch any of our sales reps, their voice just goes up like an octave or two when they're talking. They do the customer service voice. And so what it'll sound like is
like cool, we can take Visa, Mastercard, or if you want to rack up some points on an MX, we can accept that also. Do you happen to have one of those handy? Oh, like now, yeah, I've just got some stuff to set up on my end. So, if you just need to grab your wallet from the other room or something like that, you go do that. I'll just wait here and it'll be all good to go. Okay, sweet. Sweet. And so, just the card digits on the front four digits at a time, please. So, 4065, that's a master card. If it's like 1257 or something like that, it's an MX. Is that cool? And the expiry date and the CVC on the back. Sweet. And is that all good to go through or do you just need
to net back something across? All right.
Sweet. I'll run that now. Cool. I'll just send you a tax invoice for our mates at the ATOS. So, you can claim that on tax as well.
>> And then you just like you go back down rock tape or something.
>> What about um what about like pre prepayment like you show them something uh like what they get or >> Oh yeah, I missed that part. So you want to go from like lowest to highest resistance. So what you would get the most resistance to is yeah, knock it out in one go. Sweet. Visa or Mastercard?
like the the jump in commitment is really really high. So typically what you want to do is like work up to that.
It's very adjacent and akin to advertising where like you're only ever selling the next step and you go from like just click the ad to like which best describes you and then it's like phone number and then the booking, right? It's the same thing.
>> What's the process here?
>> So it depends on the business, right? So for you specifically probably what I would do is number one add them on.
Well, let's build this out for you. So like number one, I'd probably like send them a WhatsApp.
>> So before they pay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So you do payment last.
>> So like send them a message on WhatsApp.
And so it's like cool. You can reach me here whenever um you have like questions in the support, the workshops, the content. You can send me content for feedback.
>> And the price has already been mentioned by this point, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
We're just they've already agreed to a price I want to pay up front or do a payment plan. So I do WhatsApp first because that gives them the support first. That's how like we add people to school before we take payment, right?
>> So that also just like strategically as well tactically. That means you got a line to follow them up on as well.
>> So if they just for whatever reason just bail out.
>> Yeah, I do the WhatsApp thing. It works pretty well. Um and yeah, and I send them the link on WhatsApp, too.
>> Yep. So I' send them a WhatsApp. You do calendar invites for the workshops.
>> Uh yeah.
>> Well, might do that.
>> Yeah. I just give them the date and they put it in themselves. Yeah, the reason we send calendar invites is uh one, we'd like have the list there. Uh we don't actually do this. I'm just thinking for you is you could send them the because what you can do is and we'll talk about this in objection handling is if they say if they RSVB to it or they don't RSVB to it, it's like a indicator, right? But we'll get to that. But for you, I probably just do the send the WhatsApp. I'd do the docky sign. Now, I
am not a lawyer. Um, lawyers are not going to like this. Keep your docu sign real [ __ ] simple. Like not seven pages of like size 9 Times New Roman font. It's just like way too scary. It's too much physical and psychological resistance. Like they should be signing this on the call. So if you read ours, it's just a page. It's like [ __ ] I think we It used to be two pages. Then I got chat GBT. I was like, "Hey, can you make this less scary and fit on one page
of like size 12 monster app [ __ ] font?" And it's just like dates, price, payment options, and then really the way that I treat my I mean, mind you, I was like seven grand. Like if you're doing like a $50,000 contract, it's going to be a bigger contract, but like seven grand. And then it's basically just expectation setting. So like you're not going to be a dick. You're not going to [ __ ] be rude to anyone and [ __ ] like that. So, like I think when you do send the WhatsApp and then you go cool. There
should be a um docu sign in your email.
That's just our member engagement agreement. Just says they're not going to steal anything, break anything, or be a dick to anyone. If that sounds fair enough to you, I'll give you a moment to read it now. Just let me know if you got any questions. And then when you're happy with everything, just scroll to the bottom, electronically sign it, click finish.
>> So, docuign and then we'll do payment.
>> What about um when they see the payment?
cuz I' I've also been triing showing them the system itself.
>> Is that too overwhelming to show them?
>> I think that's too overwhelming.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> It's like if >> it's back to what their biggest problem is.
>> Yeah. It'd be like if I [ __ ] open Facebook Ads Manager, hey, so on day two I could work with this.
>> [ __ ] no.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, the other thing in terms of the mindset part of that is I I sometimes feel a bit ingenuine not warning them what they're going to get in terms of having to put up with that.
>> Like, hey, you're not going to >> We're going to show you the cockpit.
You're not going to like it, but you're going to have to learn it.
>> Mhm.
>> That's inevitable.
Not showing them beforehand, is it is it okay?
>> It's fine. Yeah.
>> Cuz Yeah. They're going to have to learn it, right?
>> Yeah. And it's just like expectation setting as well, right? So you can do that in your nurture sequences. Like we do it on the call, too. But you you say like, "Hey man, I'm [ __ ] holding your hand." [ __ ] like that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure.
>> It's not like, "Hey, like have fun." And then like you walk away.
>> Yeah. Hard.
>> Okay. Next.
>> Um, another thing you can do as well is I mean like with clients permission um as you like show them like the support like maybe you could actually scroll through your WhatsApp and show like ah here's me talking to Mitch and he said this, this, and this.
That's a good idea.
>> Yeah, cuz we do that as we walk people through school. Like we'll show them all the win post how quickly people respond to people's questions and [ __ ] >> after the payment. Uh if they have time to on board um do the onboarding straight away.
>> Yeah. You want to do as much as you can to like reduce buyers resistance.
>> Buyers, sorry. Yeah. So like the onboarding >> and what does that generally um consist of? Like for me it would be giving them access to the system straight away.
>> For me it would be giving them all the resources uh pre-ereading and any resources that I >> Yeah. Um like a good onboarding process is absolutely part of like a good sales process. Um when you do get people asking for refunds or buyers remorse, it's cuz you didn't do this right. So like the onboardings are super [ __ ] important. Like you'll get people like we're [ __ ] still dealing with some people that weren't onboarded correctly like three months later. Like it's so
important. I'll fire people so quickly if they don't do this correctly. We'll >> pan it and and people are still asking about like when is when is the thing and what do I get and I don't have access and you're like >> yeah so you need to do this correctly.
Now the other thing with this is you want to keep this pretty lean. So you don't want their order on boarding do this and this and this and this and this. They're like whoa what the [ __ ] >> Just get them to do one thing at a time.
>> So that's process thinking again.
>> Yeah. I just say log in, add these things and uh >> ask me any questions. That's it. Three things.
>> Yeah. You can also like give them a template too. So like ours is they just got to do their on uh do their intro post. And so when they log into school, there's like a like onboarding start here and it says, "Hey, if you're running ads at the moment, answer these questions and post it. If you're not running ads, answer these questions and post it." >> And then >> in that it says, "Yeah, I'm going to attend a kickstart call on this date." >> Yeah.
>> Right. And so just getting them to start the process.
>> What you don't want to do is you just give them the portal and they're like, "What do I do now? There's so much to do. I feel overwhelmed." You go, "Just do this." And then the next thing is just do this and you just like as few steps as possible.
>> Yeah. Okay. Just for the everyone that's watching for the on boarding because I've already done a lot of this like if they've never done on boarding before.
>> Mhm.
>> If there a new student for you, what's the non-negotiable thing in onboarding that they should think about?
>> Like when you're onboarding a new member, >> well, one getting them into the school community.
>> What if you don't have a school community?
>> Like having some line of communication with you. like they just don't want to feel like I just they ran my card and now I don't know who to talk to.
>> Yeah. And in terms of the best line of communication, which do you find is most uh >> people naturally revert to whatever the [ __ ] they want to use, but we try and put everything through school.
>> Yeah.
>> So have one specific channel that's universal. For me, it'd be WhatsApp at the moment.
>> Yeah.
>> Um what if someone goes, "Oh, I usually just do email." um now >> just to say and then you position it as a benefit to them. So it's like look I'm just the most responsive on WhatsApp.
It's where all of our members are right >> and so I can respond to your same business day usually within like couple [ __ ] >> So don't dilute your way of approaching.
>> Yeah. And then if they do reach out on another platform, we tell them to post it in school.
>> Yeah.
>> Unless it's like a [ __ ] billing thing or something like that in private. But yeah, you have to train them how to use the thing correctly. And often it's like they just they didn't know any better.
They just reverted to what they knew and they didn't know it wasn't the way to go.
>> And so I say, "Hey, like yeah, this is what school is really good for." And just post in there cuz sometimes our it will happen all the time. Our sales reps will get questions and they're like, "Hey man, yeah, just post this in school. Um I showed you how to do that, but if you need me to walk you through, I can do that." All right, so let's talk about objection handling now. So there's like an seemingly infinite amount of objections you can get. Um, what I don't like is I think sales reps call them canned responses, which is like someone says, "I got to talk to my wife and you
say this and it just works every [ __ ] time." It's like, "Not really." Right?
So, you just want like a process you can go through. First thing we want to do when we're objection handling is like meet them where they're at. Right? So, this is a 10. This is a zero. That's a customer. This person doesn't even know they had the problem. You've spent the sales call going LA and they go, I'm going to think about it, right? And they they slide backwards. What we need to do is not talk to them from like up here and talk
down to them. We want to meet them where they're at. And where they're at is like nervous and skeptical. So, we don't want to bring the same energy that we had. We want to slow things down and go, "Totally understand, bro. Like we've been talking for like 40 [ __ ] minutes. Like what's the main things going through your mind? What that stops happening is like you're going like I got to think about it. It's like what do you have to think about? And
then like talking down you go la.
I was like I got to think about it. It's like totally understand man. We've been talking for like 40 [ __ ] minutes.
What's on your mind?
And then everyone's kissing and friends again, right? And so we want to meet them where they're at. Then what we need to do is we can't overcome an objection that we don't know. So we need to isolate what that objection is. And so what that means is like okay I got to think about it like that's not helpful. We need to know like what do we talk about? And so it's simply be like what are the main things that are going through your mind and just getting clear on that. But you also need to make sure is there anything
else? So if they say I've got to think about it and go cool like what's the main things going through your mind?
It's like, oh, it's it's it's just like the the money seems like a lot. Now, we know what it is, just the money, but there could be other [ __ ] So, you might go, cool. Just sounds like it's a financial thing, just the dollars and cents. Um, is there anything else? It's like, yeah, I've got to talk to my um my partner about it as well. It's like, cool. So, it's just the money, permission, anything else? Like, no, that's actually it. Now, we at least know what to talk about, right? And so, we can either talk about the money or we can talk about the partner objection.
Now, I'm a little bit different to some sales reps. I'm certainly not as pushy as as a lot of like sales trainers are.
You can go through the thing where you go like, "Cool, do you just want to ask for like permission rather than forgiveness?" But you got to read a room, right? Because if you try and do that with some people, their guard's going to go up more and they're just like, "I [ __ ] hate this sales rep.
He's too pushy." Right? And they'll push certainly with Australian audiences as well. hard.
>> Um, so what I like to do instead and what a lot of our sales reps will do is just schedule a chat like today, like later today or the next day, right? So if it's I've got to think about it and I've read the room and I figured out that yeah, this person's like just [ __ ] real nervous about this thing, I would say, cool, like how much like when are you going to get a chance to sit down, have a think about this? And they'll usually go, yeah, like probably about tonight or tomorrow. I'm like, cool. Do you want to have a schedule um
a time later this week to go for any questions that pop up? I can do Thursday or Friday. You can see the same thing I did like Thursday or Friday. And then you do morning or afternoon and then he yes lettered them down to something. All that being said, um Tim has gotten like four or five people just by going like he knew he had enough rapport with them.
He like they're like, "Yeah, I got to talk to my missile about it. I love it though." and he knew they're on board and he was just like, "Do you just want to do it anyway?" And they're like, "Yeah, [ __ ] it." And they'll just do it.
>> But again, you got to be able to like read the room. So, it's meet them where they're at, get clear on like what the objection is, and then just talk about that one.
>> Yeah. So, going back to the whole spectrum thing, this part specifically is the part where I'm like need to go like step step and it's just always been daunting to me going, "Oh, do what do you want to talk about and all of this or do do you just want to do it anyway?" Like >> getting to that is feels tedious. It feel it feels pushy.
>> What you don't want to do is like win the argu Yeah, I think hormones you said it maybe. There's so many [ __ ] sales trainers. Um, you don't want to win the argument, but lose the sale. And so, you can absolutely win the objection logically, but it's not their it's not their logic that makes the decision. It's the feeling.
>> So, there's so many different frames you can do for objection handling. Like one thing this doesn't work with business owners as much unless they're more emotional, but it might be something like we do it with like industry set where they're music producers and they're like a little bit more emotional than they are logical. We do I taught Jackson this frame. I probably learned it from somewhere and I can't remember where, but I called it like the coach frame,
which is if they're just really nervous, logically it makes sense. they just feel nervous about it. You can't approach, you can't overcome emotional objections with logical solutions. You just have to meet them where they're at emotionally.
And so what I might do is say totally understand like from what I'm understanding and tell me if I'm wrong.
Sounds like this logically just makes sense. Just emotionally you're a little bit nervous. Is that kind of where you're at right now? And they go, "Yeah, cool." And then you ask for permission.
And so it' be it sounds something like, "Can I offer you I mean, we're a coaching business, so I think I'd be doing you a little bit of disservice if I didn't offer you some coaching at this moment. Can I put my coaching hat on for a second?" >> Isn't that consulting though?
>> Not when you'd listen to what I'm about to say. So if I go, can I put my coaching hat on for a minute? Very cool.
And I'd say something like, "Can you recall any other instances in your life or events where you were really, really nervous about something, but on the other side of it, it was a really like core pivotal cannon event in your life?" >> Like, cool. Do you mind sharing with me what that is? And they'd be like, "Oh, like this [ __ ] thing." It's like, "Cool." And so, would it be perhaps useful to reframe this nervousness as some kind of symptom that you're on something on the cusp of something equivalent to that? They go, "Ah, yeah." So now they've you've reframed this
nervousness as don't do this to reframe the nervousness as oh you were nervous in this other really good situation before right. So but there's an infinite amount of [ __ ] ways to do it.
>> But the main thing is we need to talk about what the what the isolated objection is. If the objection is I feel nervous just talk about how they feel nervous. If the objection is the price just talk about like financing options or something like that. If the if the problem is like I need to ask someone permission, then just ask about like when they're going to be able to get that permission, if they're going to talk to them tonight at dinner or something like that >> and then reschedule the call >> potentially. Yeah. But the core thing as
well with followup is um >> I think Pete taught me this is like you don't want follow-up to be um like playing tag or something like that, right? So like followup has to be like scheduled and expected. Now, this is that red flag test I was telling you about before with the the IRS of appealing to the calendar event. So, if they're like, "Yep, I'll talk to them tonight and we'll talk tomorrow." You can kind of tell by how agreeable they are to the day and the time if they're going to [ __ ] come or
not first. So, if I go to you, so if you say like, "Brandon, can you do Thursday at 11:00 a.m.?" Like, "Yep, yeah, I can do that." It's like, you [ __ ] check your calendar clearly. But if you're like, "Can you do Thursday at 11:00 a.m.?" and they're like, "Um, no. Can you do like 12 or like 11? I can do 11:30." That that negotiation that that's a all right, cool. Like they're trying to make this work. The other one is you send them the calendar invite and you say, "Cool. There should be a calendar invite in your calendar for
your emails for 11:30. Is that in your email inbox?" And they go, "Uh, yep. Got it. Go. Cool. Just RSVP." Yes. That just was blocked out in both our calendars.
If you see them click yes, then it's like, "Cool. Green. I think we're on here. But if they're like, "Yeah, cool.
Just send a calendar invite." You get that? Yep. Cool. Do you just want to RSVP to that one? Yep. There's nothing.
It's all right. This [ __ ] dude's not coming back. Right. Um, so that's what you look for. The other thing that I do, I don't know why no one does this as well. I to my knowledge, I'm the only one that's ever [ __ ] said to do this.
when you get the um like send me some information thing. I never [ __ ] send them information because you had to remember how much physical resistance it is to open the information because one, you've got to [ __ ] write up this email and spend this time doing it.
Probably got a template, but you got to send them the email. It's going to land in the inbox. They got to click it. They got to read all this [ __ ] So, what I always did was I just took the landing page. I just sent it in Zoom and I went, "Cool. Just click that link." And they go, "Yep." I like, "Yep, that's all the information I was going to send you." Uh, and then I might get them to Google us and open up our Google reviews and then I and then if there was, let's say, for example, there was a testimonial, I would I would give them the most relevant testimonial, too. So, if the
objection was the partner objection, I'd send them Mel's testimonial where she said, "I was the partner objection and this is the best thing ever." Now, I'd just make sure they had all those tabs open before I ended Zoom. Because what happens is they close Zoom, all the information's in front of them. It's just then and there. They just watch us.
>> An email waiting for it to be open.
>> Yeah. Like that's how I got um um Anita.
Remember you sent me Anita? And she didn't know anything about what we did.
And so she hadn't watched the VSSL. And so I was like, "Oh, you just haven't [ __ ] watched this." And she's like, "Yeah, can you send me information?" I'm like, "Yeah, just go watch this." And then like 30 minutes later she text me.
She's like, "Yeah, I'm in." >> Yeah, cool.
>> Yeah. So it just lowers all this physical and psychological resistance cuz as soon as Zoom call is over, the information's [ __ ] right there. Uh the other thing with objection handling is like sounds counterintuitive. Try and get a no out of them because one you'll save your energy like chasing a dead lead. We actually and and sometimes it's not no it's just not now. Like we actually literally last week Tim enrolled someone that was like I think he spoke to him a year and a half ago.
>> Yeah. I've had that a couple times. No, but the guy like on the call was like everything made sense. And he was just like, "Yeah, I just don't feel like I'm going to do this." And Tim was like, "Sick." I appreciate the honesty to be honest. And then he just emailed Tim out of nowhere. Was like, "Hey, I'm ready to get started." And then >> the urgency was higher.
>> Well, yeah. I I think he told me he had some like personal stuff going on at the time, like whatever.
>> Um, so sometimes you could just ask him like, "Hey, man, like do you just not want to do it?" and they'll be like, "Yeah, like cool." Like, "Sweet. If things change in the future, like, let me know." I >> mean, you don't want them to not do it after after they've done the workshop cuz it kind of >> Exactly. And the other thing as well is like if they feel like they were pressured into it and like every everyone's subjective, right? So like my feeling of being pressured is very different to some other people's pre
feeling of being pressured.
>> Like did you see that? Um >> Oh, yeah. Did you see that? uh Rockme Melon Agency was on a current affair. So like the people were like the people they were like oh I was like pressured into signing it. I'm like yeah I and by the way this is like anti- agency propaganda but both sides of the party were in my opinion in the wrong because they were like send them to I felt pressured to sign it. I'm like, I've heard that before. And in my opinion, there was no I like you just got sent a docky sign. Like, no one's putting a gun
to your [ __ ] head. And they're like, oh, there was no like physical contract.
I'm like, you don't need that. Like this just a docky sign. Like people sign [ __ ] electronically now. And so, but people's like, if they feel pressured at all, that's the people that more often than not, they'll come back later and be like, "Oh, it didn't [ __ ] work for me. I was pressured in the sales process." Blah blah blah blah blah.
>> Yeah. You want to limit that, too. Yeah.
Okay.
>> All right. Let's talk about tracking and CRM admin because this is super important. Um, sales is an emotional roller coaster.
And just like with your ad account, you need to be able to make decisions based off of numbers and not just feelings.
Because when you're doing sales, like if this is a spectrum of happy to sad, it's going like and if you get stuck down here for too long, you like don't look at the [ __ ] trend line. So you need numbers, right?
Especially if you just have like one bad day, it like [ __ ] you up. So you need to create a Google sheet, which is quite simple. It's just going to be calls booked, calls attended.
>> So that's a show rate, >> calls closed. That's it. And then you'd have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, so on, so on, so on. And you'd have like five booked, four attended, one closed. And then you're like, cool. 25% close rate. And then you have four booked, two attended, one closed, and then you're like, cool, 50% close rate.
But then you have it sum at the bottom so you can see your performance. And then you can make decisions based off numbers, not feelings. So let's say, for example, we know our show rates 70%. And we know that our close rate is 30%.
Well, now we know if we get 10 bookings, then we're going to have we're going to speak to seven people, and if we close 30%, we're going to get what's that like two deals, right? We can start averaging these things out. This has to be done every single [ __ ] day. Don't automate it. So don't build a [ __ ] claw bot or some [ __ ] that like cap the the manual action of like tracking it is what will keep you up to date. Like we've got AI
developers. I could very very and [ __ ] use high level. We could very very easily build this automatically.
But what I want is the sales reps to manually put in I got zero today but I got one yesterday. What the [ __ ] happened today? and then see that. Now, when you start building a sales team as well, make sure the sales reps can see where they stack up against everyone. It is like by far the like best driver of performance is just you just tell a sales reps if they're better or worse than someone else. By the way, I accidentally learned this like as a
nightclub promoter. So, I had a team of like 20 or 30 little promoter minions and I had a Google sheet that tracked all of their performance. So every single Friday for like 2 or 3 years, how many names they submitted, how many names attended, average out over months, quarters, everything like that. And then none of them could see the performance though. But what I did was I just I think it was like at the end of the month I just exported all the data into
a bar graph and so you could say like so and so had this many people, so and so had this many people and then I just put it in the group chat without any context and then everyone doubled their performance because they knew exactly where they stacked up. And so what happened was like the high performers like they did exceptional. The people that were like the middle of the bell curve, they shifted up and then all the bottom performers, they just [ __ ] off. It was
great. And so but they they all got like ultra competitive with each other. So make sure you're tracking that. You needed you needed you should know rate and close rate off the top of your head within plus or minus like 3%.
>> Yeah.
>> For the month to date. cuz then you know where the bottlenecks are.
>> Yep. Exactly. And so like you know like my show r like 50%. And then we get into troubleshooting and optimizing.
>> Yeah.
>> The other thing that's worth noticing but not obsessing over is if you have better show rates and better close rates at certain days and times. So for example for us B2B we just notice we have better show rates and better close rates before lunchtime.
>> That makes sense because that's where the most decision making is.
>> Exactly. And then what about talk about Fridays and Saturdays?
>> Yeah, Fridays and Saturdays. Like if I want to do a sales team meeting, it's probably going to be Friday afternoon because like that's when the that's when we had the worst show rate, the worst close rate. Uh the weekend deals for B2B, the bookings are pretty terrible.
Show r awful. Close rates awful, too, because the people that are like serious about growing their business, they can take calls during the week. But who can take calls on the weekend? ones that aren't full-time in their business yet and they're working for someone else still.
>> What about the advanced time that you give people to be able to call book a call?
>> Uh yeah, usually no more than 5 days out. Caveat to that though, like you want them booking as soon as possible.
The caveat to that is if someone books from an hour from now, they don't have the time to watch the VSSL or consume the nurtures. So we actually found people that booked the same day, they were the ones getting to the call. Like, so what do you guys do because they didn't have time to watch the VSSL?
>> So, what's the >> minimum like minimum 24 hours, maximum like 5 days?
>> And what if they aren't available in 5 days time?
>> Tom [ __ ] can't book later.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Every now and then they'll be like, "Oh, can I book for [ __ ] 3 months from now?" Like, just nah. cuz does I get people that can't book in >> um and then they try to do it through the website via email or something. It's like, hey, I tried to book next week, but there were no dates available, so they just try to email.
>> You got to check your availability and make sure you don't have anything like blocking it as well.
>> No, no, no. It's because there's only a 5day limit.
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Cuz sometimes like the weird ones like let's say it's Thursday and you're booked out Friday and you don't take calls Saturday and Sunday, then like only Monday appears.
So you got to like account for that too.
Sometimes they manually change it and [ __ ] depending which calendar widget you're using. Sometimes they allow for that like um I think HubSpot does that.
One of the [ __ ] few decent features they do. Um but sometimes there's like rolling days all business stuff.
>> I find pretty good.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah.
>> Now that our ads are running, we want to go through and understand the theory of how to optimize our campaigns and get a better return on ad spend and more profit in the bank.
>> All right. So to understand optimizing before just jumping into an ad account kind of blind and getting overwhelmed by all the different [ __ ] statistics, we need to understand the entire ecosystem first um before we just start jumping into the ad account. So this is the entire customer journey from an impression on their ad to a transaction in the bank account. The first thing that happens is they see one of many different ads in potentially many different ad sets. They click. In your
instance, you're a two-step funnel. So, they go to the application page, which is where they complete that survey. Once they complete the survey, assuming they said the right answers and they're qualified, it then sends them to a booking page or the calendar widget.
They'll get a bunch of nurtures, email, and SMS reminders to remind them to rock up to the appointment that they made and then you have the conversation with them there. That's where you process the transaction. There's lots when you log into your ad account, there's [ __ ] not infinite, but a lot of different statistics you can look at. There's only a few that truly matter. So, the first one that really matters here is link CTR. Now, when you log into Meta Ads
Manager, there's uh there's actually two different CTRs. There's link CTR and CTR all. We want link CTR. Uh CTR all is anyone that clicked the ad anywhere at all. Like, they could have pressed pause, they could have pressed unmute.
It's [ __ ] It's kind of boring. Now, this will also influence your cost per click. Now, the cost per click is calculated as a percentage of CPM um and the link CTR. Um, for example, CPM, I mean, I'll put it in there. We look at it. There's not too much you can do about it. There is, but CPM is basically how many dollars do I need to spend to get my ads seen 1,000 times. It stands
for cost per millie. I think it's French or Latin. Who gives a [ __ ] And CPM is essentially how expensive is it to get the eyeballs of the people I want. But generally speaking, when I'm looking at my ad account, I'm just looking at link CTR.
>> Yeah. Because that's the amount of percentage of the overall that land on the app page.
>> Yep. And we want to like the sweet spot is between one to 2%. Now, if we're optimizing for a standard event like leads or schedules, somewhere between there is the sweet spot. If you optimize for link clicks, you're going to get a 5% CTR, but [ __ ] all people are going to convert here. So, assuming we're optimizing for something meaningful like leads or schedules or submit application, 1 to 2%. I think I've
mentioned in the past, if I see a link CTR above 2%, I start getting suspicious. And if I see it's like two point like high twos or even 3% I start it's a pretty good indicator that this isn't converting because >> but they're landing on it.
>> They've got they're landing on it but they're not converting and it's because the the clicks are more curious than committed.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Cuz they want something to to see next.
Yeah.
>> That if they don't get it on the landing page >> and then they bounce. Right. They're just clicking because they're >> So don't overpromise in the ads.
>> Exactly. Okay.
>> Right. Um, if it's less than 1%, I still look at the overall cost per lead. But generally speaking, less than 1% means rather like showing the ad to the wrong people or the message isn't convincing or, you know, compelling enough. And then we start looking at that once they go to the landing page. And keep in mind as we're going throughout this entire thing, I'm going to give you some like rules of thumb metrics, but at the end of the day, what truly matters is net
profit. Because like I get like I'm going to suggest a 5 to 10% conversion rate here. I get 1.8. But the reason I get 1.8 is cuz I'm spending $20,000 every [ __ ] 24 hours. Everyone has seen it. And so my your conversion rates and statistics generally speaking go down as you scale more and go to colder and colder audiences. Your return on ad spend will go down, but net profit is what you look at at the end. So, for
example, when you're spending like baby budgets like a hundred bucks a day, you'll get like a 10x return on ad spend, but it's like 10 on $100 a day.
It's only like $10,000 a day. It gives you [ __ ] right? Whereas, I'm getting like a 4x return. I think it might be five. It's been five the last week. Like a four extra spend 4x return on ad spend, but I'm spending $20,000 a day.
>> You get you get over 100 grand return in the day.
>> Yeah. Generally speaking, it's like 80.
We did a couple days in a row where we did like north of 100. But when you're starting out, generally speaking, a five to 10% conversion rate. Now, what this then means is we can calculate the cost per lead, right? So, let's say, and I'm going to do simple math. Let's say we get a $1 cost per click and we have a 10% conversion rate. Could you just do the math? What do you think? What is the cost per lead in that instance? 10% of
the people that click become a lead. 10% of a dollar.
>> No, it's 10 times this.
>> Oh, 10 times, >> right? So, 10% every 10 times. So, 10 bucks.
>> Yeah. So, our cost per lead in this particular instance is $10. Let's say we get to the uh booking page right now.
Generally speaking, the conversion rate here should be somewhere between 30, we get 60%. I've seen 85%. No idea how the [ __ ] they did that, but 30% booking rate is kind of what we look for, right? And so, let's say, and these numbers, by the way, are like massively under what they are. I'm just doing $1 cost per click because the math's easy for me. Let's say we get a 30%
conversion rate here. Let's round that to 33.33 recurring. Then our cost per schedule is roughly $30, right? And I'm rounding it here. It'd be like 33.33, whatever the [ __ ] it is, right? But that means our cost per schedule is going to be around 30. Let's say the ner so they've booked in a call. Let's say the next statistics we need statistic we
need to know is the show rate. So what percentage of these people that clicked sorry that booked are actually showing up to their appointment. We want about a 70% show rate. That's our target. Now if we have a 30 / 0.7 = 40, we'll call it 43
bucks. Our cost per show would be $43.
Let's then say our close rate, we want the close rate somewhere north of 20%.
Um, if it's consistently 60% or up, just increase your price. So, generally speaking, we want a close rate somewhere in the 30 to like 45% range, right? Let's just say we're closing 30%.
If we have talking to people for $43, then that divided by 0.3 means $143.
So our CPA cost per acquisition is now I say I say >> 143.
>> Yeah. $143.
>> And if your and if your product's like a,000 bucks, that's nice.
>> Yeah. Right. So, let's say the deal value is like, let's say it's $2,000, right? Then 2,000 / 143 2,00 / 143 = 14x.
So, our return on ad spend equals 14x.
Right? So, we can say that at this current level of spend, every dollar that we put into this end spits out 14 bucks out here, >> right? And you can see how I've calculated all of these statistics.
>> Cool. So, based on this, what would be the first thing you'd look at next to make this go up?
>> In this [ __ ] instance, I would just spend more money.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So like this is this is getting into like I call it ad spend archetypes.
So there's different people particularly business owners have different risk profiles when it comes to their ad account. So one that we talk about in the workshop is like the cautious calculator. So, a cautious calculator will look at all of these [ __ ] incredible statistics, like literally everything where it needs to be, and they get 14 bucks back for every dollar they spend, and they'll still be like, I reckon I can go to like 11%.
>> And then they they spend all this [ __ ] time trying to get to like 11% or 12.
>> Let's go through the hypotheticals.
Let's increase ad spend. So, we're currently spending a dollar.
>> Yeah. Well, let's say we're spending $1,000 a month, right? So now we've just upped it by a thousand times.
>> No, no, no. Like that that's just one click, right? Let's say at this level of spend, we spend $1,000, we get 14x, then we get $14,000, >> right? In this instance, I'd be like, I can't be [ __ ] making like don't make new funnels, don't make new ads, just go to the daily budget and just [ __ ] load a rip, right? Yeah.
>> Then let's say we go to $2,000 a month. Let's just say it dips a little bit to like 12x.
That's fine because 2 * 12 is still $24,000, right?
It's still more than like what some what sometimes people will go is they go, "Oh, I went my row turn on ad spend went from 14 to 12. I need like don't worry about this number too much. Worry about this number." >> Yeah. Cuz 1,000 take 14 is 13.
>> 24,000 take 2,000 is 22. They're still like >> we spend $3,000 and then it goes down by another two points and it goes down to 10x, right? We're still at $30,000.
>> And it typically does go down the more you spend. Absolutely. But if you're still getting more than the previous amount, it doesn't matter. And then you're saying right now you you've achieved 5x.
>> So go down to your numbers.
>> Like I'm at 20K. Uh that's a day. So >> yeah. So if we use my business as an example, I spend 20 grand a day, which in an average month is $600,000 a month.
They get a 2.5 extra return on ad spend times 2.5. So yeah, pretty much bang on.
1.5 mil like last That's pretty bang on because last month we did $1,471,000.
I don't know where that $30,000 went [ __ ] miss. Talk to about that.
>> Take take that $600,000. You're making $900,000.
>> Well, then you got wages and salaries.
>> Yeah, you got salaries. But the main point I want to make here is don't let return on ad spend become this [ __ ] vanity metric cuz you'll get these [ __ ] nerds that be like, "Oh yeah, 14 extra turn on ad spense. Who gives about no one gives a [ __ ] about your $14,000 a month?" And then I'm like, "I got a 2.5 extra turn on ad spend." They're like, "That's shit." And I'm like, "Well, how many [ __ ] cars do you drive, right?
Three less than I do." And so what we want to do is look at net profit. We want to look at net profit because and this I have never heard any [ __ ] marketers say this because they always talk about like and these these absolutely [ __ ] matter. Like I don't know why [ __ ] anyone's reporting on impressions in their [ __ ] agency.
Like cost per click doesn't matter too much. Cost per lead matters to a degree.
Cost per application matters to a degree. Show rate matters to a degree.
Like return like close rate matters to a degree. But they only matter to the degree that they influence Net profit >> return on ad spend is absolutely a [ __ ] vanity metric. It's nice to know but it's only nice to know in the sense that how you can calculate net profit.
So like when I set my targets I just divide my target by 2.5 or if it's going up I go cool. If I want to do 2.5 mil I want to probably divide it by two or 1.8 or something like that. Right? All of these statistics only matter to the degree that they influence that.
>> Yeah. Now, how do we troubleshoot this stuff? Do you remember the average statistics? So, the the targets were like 5 to 10% here. Target was like 30 to 50% here. Show rate was like usually around like 70%. Close rate between like 30 and 45%. Those are our targets.
Right.
>> Right.
>> And then this one is one to 2%.
Let's start with ads. So, let's say we're getting 7.5% here. Let's say we're getting 40% here. Let's say we're getting 60% here. And let's say we're getting 40% here. But let's say we're
7% here. With optimizations, you want to you can do multiple at a time, but given all these statistics, which number do you think would be the most impactful for us to change?
>> The first one.
>> Yeah.
>> Because it's the start of the pipeline.
>> I tried to throw a spanner in the works here by going like 60%. If you said that, you would have been wrong. This is the correct answer, right? Because from going from 60% to 70% is not nearly as impactful like when you run it through a calculator, not nearly as impactful on the end of that as it is from going 0% to let's say 1.4%.
Which is still like in the middle of our average, right? Because if I go from zero, I don't spend any more money on ads, but I just go from 0% 0.7% to 1.4% without actually doing the math. Can you just tell me what happens to the end of the equation?
>> It doubles.
>> Exactly. Doubles. Right. We don't spend any more money on ads. We're just more efficient with the existing impressions that we got. We just got twice as many people to click the ad. And all other things being equal. Now there's twice as many people going here. There's twice as many, not in terms of percentage, but the volume of people that go through this is just doubling all the way down.
Right? So how do we do that? Now, link CTR is, and we'll go through each of these one by one. It's going to take us a while. Link CTR, the main thing that we want to look at is the messaging.
We're either showing the ad to the wrong people or we're showing them the wrong message. More often than not, we're showing them the wrong message. With how accurate meta targeting is, what we need to do when we're getting a low link CTR is look at what did we say like usually in the first sentence of the ad. usually in the first couple seconds of the video. And so if we have a low link CTR, what it implies and what we can safely assume is that they don't [ __ ] care.
Whatever we said, they don't [ __ ] care, right? And so what you'd want to do is do the very first exercise again towards motivators, away from motivators, things they tried in the past. And let's say you had like all these different points and you just tried this one and this one, you'll be like, "All right, cool.
Well, let's try this one, this one, this one, maybe this one, maybe this one, right?" Cuz what you might find is these first two that you tried, they're like the 0.4, 0.9 or something like that, right? And then you try these other angles and like, oh, like this one they really [ __ ] care about. Like this particular ad got like a 1.5% link CTR.
This particular ad got like a 1.8% 8% CTR.
>> Yeah, this goes back to the beginning of the video.
>> Yeah, exactly right. And so we're just trying to find like what messaging angles are working for us the best.
>> I rarely ever try new targeting.
>> It's just like organic. You you see one specific style of format work.
>> Mhm.
>> You reiterate that in different ways to keep spamming it.
>> Yep.
>> And then continue putting ads for behind it. So that 1.8% 8% I'm like cool that specific away from motivator >> let's make more about that redistribute that >> what are some ways you've done that in the past >> you just find different ways to talk about it or you just talk about it again >> yeah can you specifically remember one example that you >> I'm relying on word of mouth I've been cooking with that for half a decade like that's just always going to work >> um yeah whereas every now and then
you'll find like niche little ad ideas like I have one where I talk about like you started your business because you're really good at what you do. The first couple word of mouth and referrals, like those stories will always work really, really well.
>> But yeah, those are the main things. But then >> something that you saw and you were like, "Wow, that really [ __ ] itself." And you were like, "That's going to work." And you were >> cuz you you do say this a lot. Um >> yeah, >> like 50 of your ads you're like, "These are going to work." But 100% of the time you're wrong.
>> Well, like I'll be like I'll look at 30 ads and be like, "I reckon these two will slap and I'm [ __ ] dead wrong." Why are you wrong though? Like what?
>> Cuz on a sample size of one.
>> So like you had to remember advertising is just statistics and it's frankly it is gambling. But you had to remember like the law of large numbers. And so I will have an opinion of an ad.
>> And some people out there will agree with me. But the large majority of people that see the ad like, nah, I like this one.
>> That's my point. When people want to make a creative, whether it's an ad or organic, they don't they don't care about the rest. They care about what they think. And it's wrong because you got to remember like I say this in the workshops all the time as as like a disclaimer for when I give people feedback on their ads. I'll be like look I like this to this degree but you got to remember I'm a sample size of one.
I'm a fairly well-informed advertiser but at the end of the day what is significantly more statistically significant than my own opinion on your one ad is showing that ad and lots of other ads to tens of thousands of people and letting them vote.
>> And that's that [ __ ] around find out mentality.
>> Yeah. I'll try on [ __ ] anything.
Right? So, that's the main thing. When the link CTR isn't where you want it to be, it's not that 1 to 2% sweet spot, look at what you said. They don't care.
And just look at other things they could potentially care about and test them >> and just again visit back on 7 days to figure out the decimal point on that creative.
>> Yeah. So, generally speaking, I will go off. It's a combination of time and spend. So, let's say for example, you're spending, I'm going do an extreme example, $10 a day. It takes you [ __ ] 30 days to get $300 to spend. That's still [ __ ] right? Whereas, if I'm spending $100 a day, I will learn in 3 days what the person spending $10 a
day will take a whole month.
>> Right? Generally speaking, my rule of thumb is at least 7 days of data to like at least form an opinion on something or $1,000 of spend. But it depends. Uh like for example, like when I'm testing at $20,000 a day, if I'm running a split test on the landing page, I probably shouldn't, but I'll [ __ ] call it after a couple days, like rather than like a whole [ __ ] month. The thing you had to remember as well is the further down the funnel you go, the
longer you have to wait to test something. Because let's say we start running ads, well, the ads get immediately seen by everyone. Like this has the most impressions and so you get data on the ads at least on the link clickthrough rate uh like really really really quickly.
>> And most agencies they they >> Yeah, they just [ __ ] talk about that.
>> Just talk about that. The landing page has like usually if you're one to two% 98 at least percent less data than the ads because this is less people going to it, right? So when like tens of thousands of people see this, only hundreds of people saw this. So this takes a little bit longer to split test, right? Then you got to the booking page, right? So this has 50 or not 50, 20 times less people than this will for the same period of
time. So you need to wait like 20 times longer to split test something here theoretically.
>> And then the show rate like only a certain percentage of people are booking. So and then the clones rate like does the show rate.
>> We're going back to that is being the more more impactful thing. Exactly.
Right.
>> So now we've got 1.5% 1.8%. We're starting to cook a little bit and we're getting a few more impressions that are landing on the ad page. What's next?
>> Let's say we're getting a 2% conversion rate, right? Well, if we can just get to 6%, what happens to the bottom line?
>> Triples.
>> Yeah, triples. Right.
>> So, now we can focus all our attention here. We can see pretty clearly like if we got 40% here, 60% here, 40% there, and 1.4% there. If we can just go from two to four even, >> great.
>> And the biggest driving factor in the app page would be obviously what you put in it. It's content >> maybe. So the first thing that we do when we look at conversion rates on the landing page is the first thing we do is we look at the page. The second thing we do is what happened before it. So I this principle and we talked about it called chasing problems upstream. Absolutely the problem could be on this page. It could absolutely be something that happened before it. Just like with when
we get to the booking page maybe there was an expectation set here that isn't being met here >> and so they leave. Right? So, but let's look at the application page. The first things that we look at, the very first thing that I look at is the headline because pretty much 100% of people are just going to read that big bold block of text at the top and then that is the frame that they'll look at the rest of the page through. Right? So, the headline we remember the my favorite formula is feeling plus result or you
can also call result and outcome. I look at that and then I just change it out for something else.
>> Yeah. Results are more important than feeling.
>> Yeah. Right. So like the >> results are factual.
>> Yeah. And like the feeling like as long as we evoke a feeling that's fine.
>> It's important to evoke a feeling anyway. Like they found I can't remember the person's name but there was a guy that he worked as like a railway um [ __ ] mechanic or something like that. And he had this freak accident where like he drove a [ __ ] spike through his head and it destroyed the um it destroyed the I think the feeling part of his brain. I can't remember what it was. So, he could still logically think, but because he had no feelings, he didn't make any [ __ ] decisions.
So, we need feelings, but the the outcome in my experience when I'm split testing headlines, that is way more impactful. Uh the example I always give in the workshops and it's just top of mind for me is if someone's a content agency and they talk about the the outcome of building brand it will work to a degree but way less of a degree than if you chase that problem downstream sorry that outcome downstream and talk about build revenue right so what I always do is if my headline isn't
working to the degree that I want it to kind of ignore that I look at my current result and I go then what happens and then I change in that new result. That's the first thing that I do. The second thing that I'll look at is the call to action above the form. So, you're going to have like a little sub headline that says, "Next step, answer a few questions to X and then the survey underneath it." That little sub headline is kind of like, you know how like the headline is
the frame they look at the rest of the page through? That sub headline is the frame that they decide, am I going to [ __ ] complete this form or not? So like a really bad example is like contact us. It's very selfish, right?
Whereas if I can make it feel like they're starting a process or like I suppose rebranding what that process looks like, right? So CDA, I look at that first and I just start changing that. The next thing that I'll look at is just any other opportunities to reduce physical or psychological resistance.
More often than not, it's this, right?
So, I'd look at the form. You can also like with the survey builder and high level, you can see their drop off per certain questions. So, let's say you got multi- choice, multi- choice, multi- choice, like type out your answer. More often than not, you'll notice that one will have like a big drop off. And in order to show you the percentage, like let's say it's a 50% drop off, I was like, that's pretty significant. Do we really need this question? Can we maybe change the multiple choice? Right? So I'll look at opportunities to reduce physical resistance first.
>> Eventually you get to a point where you've reduced physical resistance as much as you can. The form's as high up as it can. That's when I start looking at psychological resistance.
Right? So what I'd be able to see or at least infer is it takes as few clicks, keystrokes, and scrolls as reasonably possible to complete this form. Now they're just not [ __ ] understanding anything. So, like they're probably not watching the VSSL, so they don't really understand what it is. And so, I'll think of sections I can add that basically make it clear like what this thing is without having to watch the VSSL.
>> And how long would you test this for?
>> I'd usually run a split test for like at least a week. Usually, like honestly, what I tell people, what I tell people is very different to what I do, but what I tell people is like four month split test minimum 14 days. And how long after the campaign has started would you start doing that?
>> You can open a campaign with a split test running especially if it is like not very sure at all and then you get data from like day one.
>> And is that only after you've achieved at least a 1% CTR?
>> What do you mean?
>> So in the ads bucket >> once you've gone up to above that threshold and you're in the range of one to 2%.
>> But you're noticing your uh >> Yeah. Yeah. Then I start looking at that like once you're in 1 to 2% here it's like cool there's not really like if you start going above 2% then this is going to turn >> you start worrying about burning through the ads um and worrying that they will get lower over time because of ad fatigue >> potentially. We can get to that later but >> more often than not >> as long as you got like plenty of different ads right that's that creative diversity thing we were talking about
before. Now once I've looked at the headline, I've like started changing the result or I've looked at the call to action or I've reduced physical and psychological resistance, the next thing that I look at is I chase the problem upstream. And all I do is I look at the ads that are I sort the ads from like most spend to least spend and I just start seeing like are the hooks more curious than committed. And so literally
all I look at is the first line of the ads >> and that's the first line of the ads inside the page on Facebook or the text, right?
>> Yeah, the primary text the first thing that you say because it's it's either going to be the headline, but like if if you and this probably isn't a good answer like >> if you're following all the rules here, >> it's probably up here, >> right? And so I'd start looking at the ads and going, are they more like curious than committed? And just like re rewriting the first sentence or refilming the first ads. You might also notice that there's like certain ads that get heaps of clicks and no conversions, right? And so you look at
those and go, "Oh yeah, that's a very curious ad, right? Whereas there'll be ads that maybe even have like a lower CTR, like 1.2%, but they convert really, really higher." And so the combination of this and this is we look at cost per lead, right? Because the relationship between your cost per click and the conversion rate is going to indicate the cost per lead. All your ads are going to have different cost per leads. And so at
this level here, we're optimizing for cost per lead, which is why, like, let's say you have a ad that has a 1.8% an 8% CTR but a really high cost per result cost per lead then you go all right well decent ad lots of people are clicking it but I'm not setting a clear expectation here and that's when you start looking at stuff on the individual level >> that makes sense so in summary if you want to increase your conversion rate here absolutely look at the headline try
changing out the result look at what's what do you what's the last thing you tell them to do before you complete the survey um another thing to look at as well actually I kind of glossed over it.
I didn't talk about it at all. Is the first question your survey, don't make it contact details. Make it something like lower commitment than >> so contact details towards the end or at the end.
>> Yeah, contact details towards the end.
My suggestion for everyone is like your first question should just be like which best describes you and then like four multi- choice of like common problems that people have.
>> Yeah.
>> Once you've reduced physical and psychological resistance enough, I just start looking at the ads and go what are they curious more curious than committed. Now, with the booking page, uh, so we want 30 to 50%. The first thing that impacts that is simply your availability. Like, I remember I used to pick on these clients all the time in the workshops. We had this one client that was like, I only want to do sales calls from 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. on Wednesdays because I'm my own boss and I work my own hours and I have stunt
staying poor because no one can [ __ ] book calls with you. If they're just like, I can't make that time, it just [ __ ] off then, right? So availability is the number one driver. Couple ways to um improve it like in your calendar widget.
Get rid of like the 15minute buffers and stuff like that because sometimes you might have like a 30 minute gap between two other meetings but if you got a buffer it won't make it available. Just open up your availability availability as much as you can.
>> Yeah. If you book out your calendar it's a good sign.
>> Yeah. Um, that being said, like my general rule of thumb settings is at least more than 12 hours notice. We talked about this yesterday. Um, if they book for like an hours from now, they don't have time to watch the VSSL. And so those are the ones that get to the call that are like, "So, what do you do?" And it's cuz they didn't [ __ ] >> up to 5 to 7 days in advance.
>> Yeah. Usually up to 5 days.
>> That is okay.
>> Other things you can look at, it's actually kind of clever, but the um the language on the headline. So, one of the things that you want to avoid doing in the headline of the booking page is use any language that closes the loop in their head. So, you have to remember we we still want them to complete this. So, we want to avoid language like thank you, done, congratulations because they see that quickly, oh, I'm done. And then
they leave, right? You always want to use language that opens up a loop >> like next step.
>> Yeah. Like I always use next step and then I've got that little, you know, the little loading bar thing.
>> It's like 50% loaded. It says like nearly done or something like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Now I don't I don't put anything else on the booking page cuz I want their attention just focused on that calendar widget. If I'm doing that, if we're doing that, the only other thing that I look at is again we chase the problem upstream. Then what I look at, what I actually chase it to is the CDA above the form, right? Because whatever was above the survey, it needs to make sense with the booking on the next page. So let's say for example, the call to
action above your form is something like unlock your growth blueprint. If you read answer a few questions to unlock your growth blueprint and then the next page you saw a calendar widget, does that make sense?
>> Not really. Right? Certain percentage of people still book the call, but if I just said unlock your growth blueprint, they might have expected that to export some kind of PDF for them and then they hit that calendar page. They're like, "This doesn't make sense." And then they bounce, right? Or they book and then they don't rock up, right? So, you look at the language and you ask yourself, does my call to action above the form, does that set any kind of expectation that means seeing a calendar widget and
asking them to book a call makes sense?
Right. That's the only other thing that I look at assuming you do this correctly. That's usually it's sort of >> it's it's a given, right?
>> Yeah. Uh actually one more thing, one other thing can be the optimization event.
>> So if we chase this upstream even further, it's what are we telling the ad account to optimize for? Because if we're telling it to optimize for leads so we can get data in, it will focus on getting leads and some of them will book in a call of their own accord. Like it makes sense. If we tell the ad account to optimize for schedules, it's intent is to get this one because the behavior
between someone that becomes a lead and someone that schedules a call is similar but not identical. Right. Someone that wants to be a lead may not necessarily book a call, but someone that wants to book a call has to be be a lead. Yeah.
>> Right. So, that's the only other thing that I look for. That one's That one's weird, though, to be clear, and I think I've talked about this before. For example, when I tell industry sets ad account to optimize for schedules, it won't even [ __ ] get leads. When I tell my account to optimize for leads, it it the link CTR goes [ __ ] I think it's because I've always been optimizing for schedules. It's always worth testing like, should I optimize for leads or should I optimize for schedules?
Sometimes that variable can just get you wildly different results.
>> You had a question. Uh yeah. So conditionally, whatever they choose in the survey, can you make it land on a slightly different look and feel book page?
>> Depending on what like website building you use, you can >> I say it's go high level.
>> No.
>> So actually, wait, I think cuz I've seen this happen. I think they've done I think they added a feature recently where like >> did it.
>> Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like they added it actually. was funny cuz I think I saw it the other week and I told Chris I was like, "Oh, they released conditional redirect." She's like, "Dude, we talked about this like months ago." >> Is it worth looking at that?
>> Nah, eventually or >> not really. It depends. Like the instance I would use that for is let's say we had two two sales reps or two teams of sales reps uh and you had like juniors, I'd send them like the lower quality leads, like lower revenue, and I'd give all the layup deals to the A players. Yeah, >> that would be one situation where I'd use that.
>> Okay, fair enough. Um, so you wouldn't you wouldn't change based on the product or the service um tier.
>> I wouldn't change that page. No.
>> Okay. Keep keep it simple. Yeah.
>> And are you saying with the arrows pointing back to the ads page, you can optimize in reverse for the ads? Is that what you're saying?
>> In the ads, optimize for schedules instead of >> only one way.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Okay, >> cool. Now, let's look at our show rate.
The show rate can absolutely be a reflection of like the SMS reminders. So the first thing that I look at when it comes to the show rate, it's actually the thank you page. So I actually haven't drawn here, but the thank you page. So the thank you page, we want to have the same VSSL that we have on the application page. We want to have that same VSSL on the thank you page. Reason being, um, is when someone clicks an ad and go to your landing page, they're not they see the 17-minute VSSL, they're like, "Not listen to that [ __ ] essay." and then they just kind of
furiously scroll around to like convince themselves into or out of at least doing that step and then that step. But now that they've booked a call and their intent levels are higher, the likelihood that they watch the VSSL here is now a little bit higher, right? Because they booked that call because they want information and now that VSSL is a source of that information. So the VSSL and like telling them to watch that.
Then the rest of the page, honestly, I keep it pretty much identical to that first page because all that information is there. But now rather than scanning it, I think Jeremy calls it scanner mode. I don't know what he calls this one, but like there uh I think he calls it justification mode. They're trying to justify should I go to this call or not, right? So all of your communication now, the goal is just like with ads, you're optimizing for the click and the lead.
The goal with your nurture sequences is you're optimizing for them showing to that call. And so you want to think like what are all the reasons why they would not show to this call and then just address them, right? So the confirmation email is like it's going to have the highest open rate. And so all the language needs to be unselfish. So rather than saying, "Hey, your homework before this call is watch this video," you use language like, "Hey, what would
be really helpful for you is giving this a watch. Just chuck it on during lunch or something like that." gives you a decent idea of how we achieve XYZ dream outcome. Another thing you can do is try and get them to reply. What you want to do is you read your email, you read your SMS reminders and you think if I just had to remix this slightly to try and encourage them to reply, how would I do that? So, I'll ask you. So, if my confirmation SMS is,
hey, your call's booked in for Thursday at 11:00 a.m., how what could you add to that to encourage a reply?
>> Uh, just confirming you're still available for that day.
>> Yeah, just does that still work for you?
Question mark.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, stuff like that, right? So, getting replies then.
>> Why is that important?
>> I don't know. I think because well, actually, I do know because I think Robert, is it Robert Kaldini? He talks about it in influence like as soon as you like identity and I think we spoke about this a lot in the philosophy section. Identity is like the strongest influence of behavior. And so if I am sending you messages saying I'm coming and I'm sending you emails saying I'm coming. Not 100% of the time, but I'm significantly more likely to come
because I've identified myself as someone that's going to come. Right? And so when you're encouraging them to reply by saying, "Hey, is that time still good for you? You're going to be able to make that you got Zoom [ __ ] like that." And they keep replying saying, "Yeah, all good." They're more likely than someone that just has not spoken to you at all.
Other things is contextualizing communication. Put cons, right? So we do this. So if someone says in their they're in home services and trades, I don't send them personal trainer testimonials. I send them home services and trades testimonials. Right? Now, the other way to look at improving your show rate, yeah, it's kind of annoying, but you look over this way. All the reasons they don't buy are also the reasons they don't show. Because if you get an objection, when we're going to talk
about sales in a moment, if you get an objection at the sales process, it's probably not the first time they've thought about it. It's just the first time that you talked about it. And so if you're getting like I need to do more research on you things or I don't know if this works for me just put them in here. Right. So we want to prevent objections.
>> So like adding more FAQs that are hate like frequently asked.
>> Y so like credibility like here's awards I've been on, here's podcasts I've been on.
>> And you just give them as much information, >> share stories, testimonials. Yep. Yeah, >> because what you got to remember like they booked the call because they want information, but they might not get that information for a couple days and when there's a lack of information, they'll just make up a story in their head and agree with it. And because the human brain has a negativity, cognitive bias, they're not going to make up a story that you want them to.
>> What if they get to the call and they all that is in the nurture or the booking page or the app page and they just didn't look for it >> cuz they're a [ __ ] [ __ ] So like you're absolutely going to you're absolutely going to get people that like we get it all the [ __ ] time. And remember it's dials not switches, right?
So you're trying to dial up the percentage of people that consume that information. You're never going to get it 100%. Like we still have call recordings we laugh about. If you ever done a sales call with us and you've been this person, just know that we laugh about you on a Slack channel.
They'll get to the call and they'll be like, "Oh, you sent too many emails." And then they'll be like, "All right, whatever." And and then they're like, "Okay, so were you going to tell me about the workshops?" were like, "Yeah, all that information was in the email." [ __ ] [ __ ] and then we don't let them buy. So, you got to remember like all the reasons like what's all the things that's going through their head and just prevent objections there.
>> Yeah. And is like if you just keep adding stuff to this, does it matter or >> um there's defin there's going to be a line somewhere where like this is too much. It is like probably 10 times more than what you actually think it is. I mean, if you answer their question as soon as possible, then great. But >> most people appreciate the emails.
They're like, even the people that buy, they're like, "You send a lot of emails like, "Yeah, well, you're [ __ ] buying right now, so [ __ ] clearly worked." >> Yeah. Yeah. For for me, it's like I'd rather give them more information. Maybe not in the nurture sequence, but like, "Hey, if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, here's everything." That's okay to do, right?
>> Shove them down the rabbit hole. Here's this. I know you're thinking this. I know you're thinking this. And so just like frontload that information because you got to remember they're going to like they're not just going to go to like your that's this is another thing to consider as well. They're not just going to go to >> like what what does this person send me?
They're going to ask they're going to ask the people in your testimonials.
They're going to find them and message them.
>> They're going to like Google you.
They're going to try and find dirt on your credit and [ __ ] like that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yep.
>> Oh, one more thing and I mentioned this before. You can chase um showing upstream to this booking page as well.
So what kind of expectation was being set? You can even chase it upstream all the way to the ads. Now I'll tell you this is a very timely case study. Um we lifted I don't know the exact statistic but we lifted industry set show rate and all we did was we looked at we exported all the data for like a year. We looked at all the people that showed what they put in their application form, what kind of language
they used. And then we looked at all the people that didn't show and the kind of language that they used. There's a lot of findings. The main finding we found was if someone was their goals were focused around getting better at making music, very processorientated, they were more likely to show and buy.
If someone's goals were around, I want to sign to this label and play at this music festival, just future paced, aspirational, they were like significantly less likely to show.
>> Yeah.
>> Or buy.
>> So what we did was we changed all the messaging like the first lines of the sentence like again like chasing all the way upstream to like the first line of sentence. All the messaging was around getting better at making music, getting faster at making music, making better quality tracks. We stopped running any testimonials that were like I've signed to this label and played this like all the aspirational stuff. We got rid of all the exciting ads and just made it like magical, >> right? Because we want to meet them where they're at, but we want to meet the right person where they're at.
>> And so meeting the right person where they're at means what's the language of the people that show and buy? Use their language and their goals. Because if we meet the wrong person where they're at, I want to play this music festival. We just shove the wrong people down this thing.
>> Yeah. And you want the right people because they have a higher chance of succeeding anyway.
>> Exactly. Right.
>> So you're optimizing the the workshop for the people that will most likely do it and get the most out of it and succeed, which makes you look better. So it compounds and snowballs and everything the rest.
>> Yeah. Get better.
>> So for anyone doing this and watching this and attends one of your workshops, how long should they give uh to collect that data to be able to go from nurturing all the way back to ads? You said 12 months from industry set generally.
>> Oh, you mean like Yeah. I mean, obviously the goal is always more. Um, >> or you're going to keep optimizing eventually, but >> when can you do that first batch of reiteration >> for show, right? Like at least a month.
>> A month. Okay.
>> Yeah. Like at least a month. As long as it's not like a weird month like [ __ ] Christmas or something like that.
>> Yeah. You got to kind of go through the seasons, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah, like a full financial quarter is kind of like really a benchmark.
>> Um, but 30 days like a calendar month, it's fine, too. Like there's four weekends and flows.
>> There's probably a long weekend in the mix there.
>> Yeah. And how important is doing that data collection and optimizing beyond just setting up the ads and hoping it rips?
>> What's the what's going to give you net profit?
>> Yeah.
>> So to the degree that influences net profit. So, like if it's no longer as impactful, like eventually you get to a point where like there's no [ __ ] point in me going from like 1.7 to 2%.
>> Yeah.
>> It's like, who cares? It's just like spend more on ads.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Like that's the most impactful thing.
>> And for you personally, you're just really looking at >> putting in more ad spend now.
>> You're always optimizing for how can I scale ad spend and increase net profit.
>> Yeah. So, like there'll be like for example, I'm kind of a little bit stuck at $20,000 a day in ad spend because if I go to 25 or $30,000 a day on ad spend, I'll do the I'll do less profit at that revenue than I will at current revenue.
So, I need to like dial things in a little bit more. I'm kind of just coasting here. Like, we're just going to coast like nine or 10 sales reps, however many we have, and then it's going to the US and stuff like that, >> right? But again, like I'm always just putting everything in a Google sheet with my wages and salaries with every other line on my P&L statement and then I'm just changing ad spend relevant to the revenue looking at the bottom line and going, "Yep, that makes sense." Or if I'm like, "Nah, like net profit's the same or worse." I'm like, "Well, just
[ __ ] stay here and fix it." >> Yeah. Like that happened this time last year as well. Like we got to a point at I think it was like5 or $10,000 a day in ad spend and I did the calculation. I'm like if I guess ad spend, we'll do less profit at that bigger number in revenue than we will right now. So you just coast and let things cruise for a bit, build up some warm audiences. You find out you find new messaging angles or um just different avenues to get people.
And for the most um of the newcomers and the beginners um where are they where should they just be dialing in the most?
>> Honestly, it you're going to look at this like nine times out of 10.
>> So application page >> application page nine times out of 10.
Yeah, >> it it will go like >> and is that because the Andromeda is more helpful than the ad section?
>> I'm not sure to be honest. It's just like whenever I'm like troubleshooting someone, it's pretty much this is the problem all the time. It goes like this and then this. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's just like once you get that right, that kind of just close to whatever the [ __ ] it is. Uh it's usually like this and then show rate. Like when you launch your show rate might be like 30 40%. And so you look at like the thank you page language. You look at like getting them to reply more. You think like what's going through their head and why they're not showing. You think about like preventing objections.
>> Yeah. So that so this decreases buyer remorse or >> I guess nurturing them um from booking page and making them show.
>> So booking in the call to not get remorse on oh I haven't heard anything from them since I booked a call. I kind of don't want to do this call.
>> No it's like they don't know what's in it for them anymore.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So like that like throughout this entire thing they're just thinking like what's in it for me? Like we learned in like year 10 economics, humans are just rationally self-interested.
>> And so like this whole time you're just reinforcing. So like the ad is just trying to get them to click. The landing page is just trying to convince them to opt in. The booking page is just trying to convince them to book. The nurture is just trying to convince them to show.
Now we can try and convince.
>> So another way of saying nurtures for the customers or for the workshop attendees is hyper.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Because like if you think about like if we mapped out this entire like funnel from like ads over here to like close over here and then like excitement >> up here.
>> Yeah.
>> The let's say they book here, right? The excitement's like this. What will happen is like as soon as they close this tab, it's naturally like if you don't communicate to them at all, they're just going to [ __ ] forget about it and the excitement will plummet like that.
>> Yeah.
>> If you have some nurtures, it will coast kind of along like that. But if we need excitement to be up here for them to buy, well then we don't want to like take them from here and like that delta.
We want to try increase their levels of excitement so that the sales process has like slightly less work to do.
>> Yeah. And you've got up to 5 days to come give them a drip.
>> Yeah. I usually send them like three or four emails on day one.
>> Yeah. And you mix that with text as well.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's another super super important one is if you don't have SMS reminders, just [ __ ] do that.
>> Like we we had a member was I think it was Conrad. All I told him to do was like add a 15 a text message reminder 15 minutes before his call and it doubled his show rate.
That was it.
>> Yeah. And what about the ones who when they get the text reminder an hour before and then they bail within that hour? What sort of signal does that give you?
>> They're usually like pretty poor lead quality. Like between them booking and them rocking up or not rocking up to a call, you get all these different signals. So like the people like if someone like replies to the SMSs, like you can see they're opening the emails and stuff like that. They're all like little green flags, >> but if someone doesn't respond to the first SMS saying, "Hey, that all good to go." Or they don't respond to the second SMS, we usually just [ __ ] delete them.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's what I'm thinking too cuz I I kind of let it run through. But then a lot of the time I get to the sales call, they don't rock up, but I look back through the sequence and I can say, "Oh, look, they've signaled do not disturb." It's like, >> "Yeah, yeah.
>> Why would you do that?" >> So, you always want to like monitor like your leads. So, like if you're not getting signals, just like delete them because they're taking up the spot of someone that would show. You can uh set up a custom conversion to track showed calls and then optimize for that. I don't think we actually do it. I got to talk to Chris about it this way. I just can't be [ __ ] But like um so like if a sales rep marks an appointment as showed, it tells your ad account, hey, someone showed. And so that's another example of like how you would chase it
up to their optimized for show calls.
Yeah, this sounds good. I I I can ask a lot more questions going deep in into the real finer things, but bottom line >> Oh, not sales.
>> Hey, >> not done with sales.
>> Not done with sales. Okay, before we do the before we do the sales, bottom line, picturing going across all these four channels.
>> Mhm.
>> Um, what's the main thing?
>> Main thing with your ads, if you want to improve your ad performance, is look at the messaging. If your link CTR is too low, they just don't care about the message that you sent them.
>> Main thing with the application page is the headline for sure.
>> That's the most important thing.
>> Yeah, definitely the most important thing.
>> Yeah. What do you roast people most on when you roast their um application page?
>> Headline.
>> Yeah. It's usually like headline. I like change out the result, which I spoke about.
>> Mhm. And what what's a headline that most people you can see time and time again they do wrong and you they just >> oh they put they just make it the thing >> they just like this is what we do like this is like that.
>> Yeah. So it's outcome not thing.
>> Yeah. We want like a it needs to evoke an emotion and it needs to communicate a clear and compelling outcome >> where if it's just like we do this they won't make that me they won't make that mental hurdle to >> the outcome. It will that and again if you just make the headline the thing it will work to a degree but the people will work with have already made up their mind. They're like the bottom of the funnel and so it won't work for the middle and the top of the funnel.
>> Yeah. Booking page.
>> Um booking page whenever that's not working honestly you I chase the problem upstream and it's like changing uh the sub headline above the form.
>> Make it make sense.
>> Yeah. Like the calendar widget needs to make sense if I read if I read this if I read the sub headline and the call to action above the form and I completed that form. Does a calendar widget make sense in my mind?
>> Yeah. What's the biggest thing here for >> fur would be biggest thing here? Getting them to reply?
>> Yeah.
>> Like combination of that and like email and SMS is like yeah no [ __ ] you need that. Like SMS for sure but like getting them to reply and encouraging them to reply lifts your straight rate significantly. All right. Close rate.
>> Close rate. Now, assuming that you are um following the like sales process, the main thing the like if I'm troubleshooting a sales rep or like a new whether they're for us or anyone else, the main thing is they're being a consultant. So, if I listen to the um sales call and they're like consulting and they're talking about like how ads work or how organic content works, their brain just goes into slower, logical
thinking and they're just not going to [ __ ] convert. They will just be overwhelmed. So, that's the main thing is like if I'm listening to the sales call and they're consulting, that's a big red flag. If you just fix that, you double your conversion rate.
Second thing would be weak discovery. So we spoke about this before where we need to get the customer to say out loud all of their problems. But you need to remember like given what they just said, what is the best next question to get them to elaborate on that more? So not I don't have enough leads and then asking them how long have you been in business for. You you ask more clarifying questions, right? So
wise and then what's if you're not being a consultant if you're doing a decent discovery probably the next thing that I would look at is um during the pitch you don't do like tie down questions. So like if your pitch turns into an 8 minute monologue and you haven't they haven't said anything that's a big red flag. So you want to be like you like I said before like I gave you the pen like makes sense and you go yeah and you give you another pen makes sense like can you see
yourself using that why and so that feedback story I can that pitch is more of a conversation rather than just >> blurting words at them >> please bro like [ __ ] what 11 hours in now surely surely by now you're like dude it took me a two months to film this in and amongst traveling between all the [ __ ] workshops that
we run to do this with people in person, not on [ __ ] YouTube cuz you're not face it. You're not actually [ __ ] doing anything. You're just watching this and go, "Oh, this is you." You're not even taking notes. God forbid. I know [ __ ] none of you are actually doing this. You're just like, "Oh, this this is useful." There's I had this saying that um I can't remember who told it to me. Maybe I actually came up with it. It was there's equity in knowledge, there's liquidity in action. And so what that means is sure this video and knowing everything that's in it is
valuable. You don't actually [ __ ] get any money in the bank until you build it. So if you want to build this with us in two days in person and then have us hold your hand for 6 months afterwards where our team responds [ __ ] within that hour most of the time to your school post and that's if you don't want to use any of the 50 [ __ ] support calls a week where we like hop on Zoom with you remote control your mouse then please click one of the links in the description and save your seat for our workshop. So yesterday you went through this and this is a good little >> Mhm.
>> segue for the close. I had a sales call yesterday straight after.
>> Mhm.
>> And it was a to promote more more of their service based business was a childare center.
>> Oh yeah.
>> And they there was the business owner and they already had an in-house social media manager and everything looked good but I didn't get the close. I went through the wires and the then ws and I gave them all the way down. They were interested in the the group um package.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh but they still needed to go away and think about it.
>> Mhm.
>> And I asked them I was like is it a price or is it a product thing?
>> Um they said it wasn't the product it was the price and the price was more >> they needed the cash flow to put into something else at the time.
>> Mhm. How would you solve that specific objection?
>> Yeah. So, like that specific instance has >> and I mentioned the payment plans by the way.
>> Yeah. There's a couple different ways you can do it. Like one of the ways that we do that is asking like what did you expect this to cost? And if they were like let's say your offer is like $5,000 and I thought it' be more in like the $3 $4,000 range. You be like all right cool. This is just like $1,000 difference, right? So like can you see that being worth like the extra $1,000?
And then you just talk about that delta between what they were expecting. If they come in and they're like, I thought it'd be like a thousand bucks. Then what we would do is we chase the problem upstream and go, what did I say that made this imply that I'm [ __ ] poor and this doesn't work, right? Like did I did I you and by the way that happened like I had it seems so obvious, but like I had this one member and he was like, "Man, all of my [ __ ] leads are broke." And then I read the first sentence of his ad. And I'm like, you
wrote get shredded or get your money back. What did you think that was going to attract Adriano? Like what kind of like if you wrote get like lose 10 kilos or get your money back? Like obviously they had implied people they had no money and we're just going to [ __ ] try and get their money back, right? And so you look at the messaging and go like did my landing page look like trash and then they just thought it was like really [ __ ] shitty? Like you look at everything like in the >> language and the branding
>> the branding and the language.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. For sure.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. It's it's a big one, but it's getting more and more of those uh frequently. For example, you definitely want to chase it upstream before it gets worse.
>> Yeah. Like if you get a recurring theme in objections.
>> Yeah.
>> It's just like, all right, well [ __ ] clearly we should talk about that in here.
>> So if you're getting a lot of like like I don't know who Sev is, I don't know if Sev's credible. This should be a whole [ __ ] email about Seth credible.
>> Who is it?
>> Yeah. Like one of our things was like I asked all of this is >> would have been about a year ago now. I asked all of our members in a workshop >> just selfishly and I told them hey just selfishly so I can improve my marketing when you guys were going through our funnel like what was going top of mind for you and a bunch of people said um I saw all the testimonials and then just like variations like did you just cherrypick them? Like how bad can it really get? And so I asked everyone, I'm like, who here was thinking like, "Yeah, all your testimonies are great, Brandon,
but how bad can you really [ __ ] me on this deal?" And like the whole room raised their hand. I went, "Oh, okay, cool." So I did a loom where I went through all of our worst reviews. And it was like the survey monkey they complete at the end of the day two workshop. And so I went through like, look, this person gave us a four out of 10. Like what did they have to say? And it wasn't like Brandon's a [ __ ] scam artist. It was like, I'm not very good with computers. I kind of struggle with the technical stuff. I wish I I wish I knew that. like up front, right? And then I ran that that's like the first email in
our nurture sequence. It's on the confirmation page, too. And then I asked people like months later. I was like, "Hey, when you enrolled, did you watch that video?" And everyone was like, "Yeah." And like, "What do you think?" They're like, "Yeah, I thought it was really transparent. Like, it was really good for setting expectations." And so, whenever you're getting like a recurring objection over here, that's a big indicator that like, let's make an email n sequence about it or let's put something on the landing page or let's talk about it in the ads. And you chase it upstream.
>> Yeah. But you also chase you upstream from all the way from closed people as well that have done your thing. Um, how important how much of an impact has that helped with your optimization?
>> I can't remember the exact statistic, but it lifted all of our show rates and close rates and stuff like that.
>> That's amazing.
>> Yeah.
>> Again, it takes a while to to grow to that.
>> Exactly. Right. And like like I was saying earlier, like the further down the funnel, the longer it takes. So like that was like months like months of c years of customers until I got that and oh, I'll put it here. Yeah, you can't start obsessing with the uh downstream optimization until you've bought an upstream to begin with, right?
>> Yeah. Like for example, like we're optimizing for like one of the things we're optimizing for is like case studies.
>> Like I know the age range of the people that give testimonials.
>> Yeah.
>> So like we optimize our ads for it.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um >> so once we've got the tie down questions and everything, obviously you've got the onboarding and the admin which you need to do immediately after. Is there anything else in here? only then I would look at lead quality. So if you're doing all of this correctly like and I'm watching the sales calls recorded I'm like yeah you actually [ __ ] did it.
Only then would I look at lead quality because what happens all the [ __ ] time is you get sales reps like the leads are [ __ ] I'm like no you just [ __ ] didn't follow the script at all.
Right. And then you just went to this [ __ ] I think I talked about like the mad [ __ ] curve. Tim learned it from his old boss. So like if this is like the sales process when you start doing well or not even [ __ ] doing well just like 3 days pass you start changing the sales process and then like you look at your sales process 30 days later it's this massive [ __ ] delta here it's like no [ __ ] it didn't [ __ ] work. You just like went off script a little bit more every single [ __ ] day. It's kind of
that analogy of like if you're a ship and you're off course by like one degree, you end up in [ __ ] Antarctica or some [ __ ] like that, right? And so you look out for the mad [ __ ] curve, you make sure like honestly like whenever Tim's or announced Jack, but whenever Tim was coaching the sales rep, all he was doing was just like did they do this part of the process? Did they say this sentence? Did they do this part of the process? And all sales management is all it [ __ ] is is just repeating getting them to do the same thing over and over and over and over and over again over a
large enough sample size of data because sometimes you have like a bad week but like you're following the process but it has to [ __ ] even out. But once you're at the lead quality thing, that's where I'll start looking at the leads that didn't buy and the language that they use. So very similar to that industry set example I gave before. So if all the leads that don't buy are the ones that are like I just want to be I already make good music. I just want to be [ __ ] Tiesta or some [ __ ] like that.
Well then we chase it upstream. We look at ads like all right well our ads are just attracting people that are poor quality leads. Let's just write leads that just discourage them from clicking.
So again that example before like Adriana said like I've got all these broke people coming through. I'm like yeah because you said get shredded or get your money back. Let's just not do that anymore.
Right. And so like that's why I I've I've harped on about it so much. Like the hook is like the 20%. Like not even [ __ ] that. It's like 1% of your entire [ __ ] marketing message that impacts like all the way to the bottom >> who it's for. No, what you do, who it's for, and uh one proof of concept, right?
>> What do you mean?
>> So to to go upstream, for example, to get a better lead quality, >> the lead quality needs to know, are they the right fit? Because you've explained Yeah. And then you turn away the wrong person, right?
>> And then what you do.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> So they're not going, "Oh, I thought this was something else." >> And then also they're not checking your background as much cuz you already got the proof of concept.
>> Well, then you got to like turn away the wrong people, right? So >> you you you're constantly doing a test, which is like if I just read the first sentence of this ad, >> would people that are broke and don't have money, would they go, "Oh, this looks like it's for me." >> A business owner. Um, if you're a business owner, you can barely be broke.
But >> the barriers to be a business own business owner, they're [ __ ] non-existent.
>> Successful business owner.
>> Yeah. Like anyone can [ __ ] start a business. I don't know why people get so stuck on like starting a business. It's so [ __ ] hard. Like easy. I mean, like you just [ __ ] register an ABN and then just tell people great, you started business. It's like getting sales and doing all this. That's the hard part.
Um, so that is what optimization looks like. So with the close rate, number one thing is like they're consulting more than they're being a therapist. Second thing is like they're not asking good questions. Third thing is they're not doing tie down questions in their sales process in the actual feedback story arc. Only then will I look at lead quality and then what we do is we look at the language that the poor lead quality used. You can even like get the transcripts feed them to claude and [ __ ] like that. say these people bought these
people didn't buy and then find the differences in their language like and then we just change the messaging along the way. So if we find that in the industry sets example the best leads are focus on making better music but change the messaging to be about making better music not about playing at this music festival because everyone wants to play at that music festival. Now that we understand the overarching theory this is what it actually looks like in my personal ad account. All right cool. So, now that we've covered that on the whiteboard, like what does it actually
look like on the interface? Now, one key kind of I suppose disclaimer when it comes to optimizing. Um, I in my opinion don't think there are any like hard and fast rules on things. So, not often, but sometimes you'll hear me say something that like the next month I'm just not in the [ __ ] mood for it. And so, I'll be like more aggressive and experimental in some months than I will be in other months. So, just use that frame as a lens to look at all of my [ __ ]
opinions on this stuff, right? So, here's my one campaign. Now, as a general rule of thumb, I always look at the last 30 days of data. And I've got this set up so I can see cost per lead, cost per schedule. More often than not, what I'll suggest most people use is there's so many different [ __ ] views, but I always really just encourage them to use performance and clicks because from performance and clicks, we can see the cost per the result that we're
optimizing for. We can also see link CTR. This is the one that I'm talking about, the CTR, link click rate. There's a CTR, see the CTR. Oh, we don't want that one. Um, and then you also got like CPM there as well. So, I've got this leads and appointments custom kind of view, though. So, let's look at this one, right? So, here's my one campaign.
Here are all of my different adsets.
Now, what we do is we look at the last 30 days and we just look at outliers.
And so, I'd look at this campaign here.
Okay? So, this one here, the last 30 days, this one is really [ __ ] blowing us out, right? So, the average cost per schedule here is $1,242.
That's, you know, like 30% higher than our This [ __ ] thing's in the way, but $900 $924, right?
Let's look at what's going on here. So, what I would do is I'd go into this adset. I might have already made some adjustments. I bet I [ __ ] have. Then, I'd sort by schedule. Actually, I go by amount spent is usually what I do. And I see what's sucking up all the budget. So you can see this one here. I've already turned it off.
>> Why would it be sucking up the budget?
>> I don't [ __ ] know, man. Like Facebook just like Facebook just like looks at everything goes, I feel really [ __ ] good about this one. So let's talk about this one. So Georgia Summit testimonial.
So the cost per schedule for the $8,000 it spent was $2,000. Right now, when one of the questions that comes up is when should you like call it on something?
Now, let's say rather than having four schedules for $2,000, it was only one schedule for $1,000. That's still higher than the like $900 cost per schedule, but if it got another lead like tomorrow, it would cut in half to 500.
So, it's kind of this like gambling game of like how how much like like runway do you want to give it? Because let's say it got to let's say it only had one schedule for $2,000. Well, if it cut in half, it go down to a,000 and then if it got another one the the next day it'd be down like 700 or something like that, right?
>> Based on the stocks. Have you ever traded stocks before or crypto?
>> Crypto every week, but yeah. Well, you know how you got that uh that bottom bit where it's like sell if it gets down to this point?
>> Yeah. It's kind of like, >> can you sell that? Can you set up it like that?
>> I think you can. I never [ __ ] do it though cuz I'm kind of a burner when it comes to tech. But now I've I've spent like $8,000. Like now if it got five, if it hit a fifth schedule, it's doing [ __ ] all right. So I've called it on that one. I've also called it on this one as well. Right. So it spent $6,000. It got four schedules, but it I had it only got schedules every $1,500.
>> Now, I can start looking at this one here, right? So, >> home services super cut with me at the start. It's got a link CTR of what's this? 0.59.
>> So, it's half my um average cost. Sorry, average link CTR here. So, I'm going to [ __ ] kill this one as well.
>> You have to be silent while it's working, bro.
>> Yeah. else market's annoyed. This one $1,000 that one. All right, I'm going to leave it. It's a little bit higher. This one This one's [ __ ] cooking. Wish it spent more here. Oh my god, my internet connection's lost. Jack, that one's cooking. Leave it. That one's >> So that I can see that the 1.17 that's above that's a >> Yeah. So that's an outlier, right?
>> Right.
>> Let's look at Mil August burnt by agency. That one's [ __ ] cooking.
Mid dude two they interviewed. That one's [ __ ] cooking.
>> You agency. It's always working.
>> Surprise. This one's still [ __ ] cooking. Ah, Tiffany. I don't know why, but it doesn't show a lead there.
Sydney, what about these ones? Sam 1,124. See, I'd leave this one because if it got another lead, like tomorrow, we'll cut in half to 600.
>> And how often do you check this yourself? Um, like once a week.
>> Once a week, I think that's all. Um, I deliberately didn't check it last week, so I'd have a little bit more data. This one, I'd leave that one. Decent CTR, decent cost per lead, just hasn't attributed any schedules yet.
>> Yeah. I'm I'm literally like the way that I'm interpreting this is that is significantly lower than one.
>> Yeah.
>> Then it >> Yeah. See, like this one here, Isaac, online fitness coach. Then still, it's only spent like $500 relative relative to the less of the campaign. I'm not feeling too [ __ ] scared about that one. But now we can start looking down here. Like this one spent $500, no leads, >> right? 0.88.
>> Does it tell you where how long it's been going for or is that metric?
>> You can work it out based on like [ __ ] with the date range like that.
>> Well, I mean, if it's if it's a 30-day last 30 days.
>> Yeah, like this one 0.88. I'm probably going to kill that one. It spent $500 and got no leads. It should have gotten at least one by now if it had a $328 average. So, I'll kill that one.
>> And do you Is that now buried? You'd never use that again.
>> No. Like sometimes it's weird. E like that Georgia ad before that was [ __ ] cooking before.
>> Yeah, that was what I kept seeing online, but I also have a wedding photography business.
>> Yeah, >> it was probably me doing >> I probably sold all the wedding photographers in Australia. Let's look at these ones. So, this one spent 250 bucks. No leads. Leave it. This one's spent $189.
Got two leads. That's doing well. That one's doing well. 100 bucks. 50 bucks.
The rest of these ones just haven't gotten enough [ __ ] juice yet. So, I'll leave these ones.
>> These are like the more fresh ones.
>> Not necessarily. Sometimes Facebook just doesn't feel that confident and they just won't [ __ ] spend that much money.
>> And you're confident on Facebook's ability to >> Confident is not the word, but what happens happens. Um, all right. Let's look at another one. So now we can say that we've optimized that one, right?
We've cut the performers to focus on the ones that are doing well. Let's look at this one next. Warm skepticism of Brandon ads. So this one's another $1,200 outlier. Same thing. Sort by amount spent, high to low. All right, so let's look at these ones, right? I probably turned a couple of these off already. So this Reese ad got schedules for 700 bucks. I've turned off this one and this one because that was that one's [ __ ] tanking, right? If that one cut
in half, like the cost per lead was already above that, right? So, if the cost per schedule cuts in half, it's only going to cut in half down to 1,200.
This one, this one was working really, really well in the past, but now eventually it's been fatigued. Making fun of that competitor is still working.
What a surprise. This one's still little bit high. Not freaking out about it, though. Like, it's below our cost per lead. The amount of videos you put into ads is far outweighs the amount of organic videos you make. Y >> but most people that make ads barely put out five videos at a time. Um again going back to the whole battle of more ad spend or more creative. You said up
to 12 initial >> up to 12 minimum 12.
>> Minimum 12. Yeah. So, minimum 12 creatives to be able to do this sort of data reflection to see what can rip in the next batch, right?
>> Mhm.
>> This is a very good example of what I was talking about, that curious versus committed thing.
>> Mhm.
>> So, see here, the link CTR is like 5%.
That's [ __ ] skyhigh, right? But the cost per lead is three times higher >> than our average there. So, what's this one? So, you look at it, right? It's like this news article. Now, what I was trying to test here was like just showing the workshop combined with like us being at Forbes, does that build trust? But maybe, and it's pretty solid hypothesis, maybe people were clicking that expecting to go to the article, >> right? And then they went to the
application page and so like heaps of people clicking through for the article, >> but then like [ __ ] all people converting, right? And none of those two people scheduled either. Let's look at this one. So, April post workshop handshakes. This isn't going to work.
So, really high link CTR, but really poor conversion rate, right? So, we killed that one. That one's probably the same as that one where like the the language is very like curious.
>> This one's cooking.
This one's cooking.
This one's like a little bit higher, right? April postworkshop interviews.
Slightly higher link CTR, slightly higher cost per lead. I'd probably just leave it for a little bit longer. It's only spent like $1,100.
This call center one tanked. I thought it' do really well.
>> Cool. And then the rest of these ones I've only spent like a couple hundred bucks, right? Cool. So now we can say we've optimized this main skepticism of branded one. This warm up upcoming dates one. Now this one's doing really really well. like $500 cost per schedule.
However, the knee-jerk reaction would be to spend more on this one. However, because it's just like the upcoming dates, it's a very like kind of small pocket. I might push it up a little bit.
But nah, see they're all getting cost per schedule like 500 bucks, 400 bucks.
Like that's really good. The problem with this one, like with these warm adsets, is you can't gas them too hard because the warm audience is only I think it's like a 100,000 people, which for most people's like their [ __ ] cold audience to be honest, but like in my scheme of things, that's a like a pocket audience. So, I can only really spend $2,000 $3,000 a day there. If I start pushing the budget on this one, it's just going to exhaust that audience. Now, on that note, >> what does that mean? Yeah, like if we look at performance and clicks and we
look at frequency, this number here, right? So if we look at the frequency here for the last 30 days, these people have seen it like six times. Whereas these cold ones, see like this one here, ads I want to force budget on to, it's only been got a frequency of like two. Like our frequency is really [ __ ] high because we're spending so much on ads, right? So if we're in a cold audience, like let's look at Yeah. Yeah, let's look at this one. Right.
So, this cold audience has a frequency of 3.2, right? Which probably indicates like these people are getting fatigued.
Is I think if you go into the changes, I actually reduced the budget of this one, right? Because they'd seen it so many [ __ ] times, like on average three times in the last 30 days, which might not seem like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, it's quite a lot.
Generally speaking and like if you have a frequency above two on a cold audience it means like dial the budget back a little bit. You will see like for example this warm one here seen it like 5.4 times but that's because it's retargeting audience right but that's again what I'm talking about with here this one here this warm upcoming dates one nearly seven times.
So, if I start pushing the budget on that one more, that's going to create that ad fatigue that we spoke about.
Uh, let's look at even this one. See, like 5.72 April 2026 ads. I just introduced some more ads here. Actually, what we can do, let's look at So, I added some ads on I think Sunday night to this ad set. So, let's look at these ones. So let's go from amount spent this one two minute story that one's cooking a little bit higher but it's doing some decent volume
Patsy. So this one with Patsy here at our two-day workshop got one schedule for like five grand. So we killed that one. This one's getting schedules for $793 559. Paty Brand is only part of the team. Now, this one we might look at 1.1% slightly higher cost per lead.
I might leave that one for now. Cut to pancy. That one's doing a little bit worse.
400.
All right. Now, let's look at this one.
Right. So, 2.3% link CTR, but no conversions. So, we might look at this and go, for whatever reason, people aren't very convinced by this one.
So, we might kill that one.
>> How much of it are you testing new ideas and stuff versus your core like word of mouth sort of >> um hard to give a wellthoughtout answer onto that one. It's just like however it comes up to be honest.
>> Yeah. Like I don't go, me and Aiden don't sit down and go, "All right, we need I mean generally speaking, we don't go all right, we need 10 of like our core message and then like 12 of like this this new one and what are those new ones going to be?" It's usually just like we riff on camera and then we'll kind of just come up with it on the spot.
>> Yeah, >> this one's got an insane high CTR.
Um and then the rest of these ones, they're kind of fun, right? These ones I would have uh added like on the weekend that just haven't got a whole lot of spend yet. This one got a lead for 25 bucks. Leave that on.
Yeah, like these ones are just like trickling through some budget right now.
And that's pretty much the process. It's just like you let it run 30 days and then you just look at the outliers and then you you just kill outliers so you can focus on the other ones.
>> But then you grab the good outliers and put them back into the potential read.
Well, then let's go through like let's say me and Aiden had to we wanted to come up with new new ad ideas, right?
So, what I would do is >> I'll just go like that. I get all my [ __ ] ads that are doing best for the last 30 days. Go to the ads. You can see I've got [ __ ] 288 ads active. I'd sort by amount spent like low high to low. So, this one's done the most, right? So, some I'd look at this ad and I'd look at it through the rule of one, right? So remember one idea, one story, one promise, one emotion and I'd listen
to what Paty says in this ad and I go, "All right, how like let's just say the same thing again in another ad or something adjacent to it." Right? So if I listen to this one, >> based business owners, we're here at our two-day workshop where we teach service based business owners how to run their own paid digital ads. Realistically, you could.
>> So it's basically just like the first six seconds is like we're at a workshop and we teach business owners this. Then what I do is I look at this one. I go maybe we want to do more carousels. Then if I look at this one, this one's a good one, right? It's doing a lot of heavy lifting. So remember the rule of one is one story, one promise, one idea, like all that stuff. This one's a story.
>> You started a service based business because you actually have a useful talent to contribute to the world.
You're not one of these e-commerce drop shipping dorks that just drop ship something off team.
>> Right. So in this one, I'm just telling a story of like what happens when you start your business and you end up relying on word of mouth. And so that one's doing really well. And so you look at all these like positive outliers, the ones that are doing all the heavy lifting, and you just look at it through the rule of thumb, like what was the idea in this ad? What was the story in this ad? What was the emotion in this?
And you just replicate that.
>> Okay.
>> Any other questions?
>> No, I think for me looking at all of this at a glance still feels like hieroglyphics, but >> the main thing I'm noticing or learning is, >> you know, that number's good. And then >> to that. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And then when to when to kill it off. Obviously, this is a campaign or is it one specific video?
>> This is just one specific >> 50 grand in one video. Wow.
>> That's pretty much what it is. It's just like you look at the outliers like, "All right, that didn't work. Don't do that again." But you look at the ones that do work that are doing all the heavy lifting, like we'll just do more of that. So again, it's just like kill non-performers when you've given them enough chance to perform and then just repeat successful performers >> just like stuff >> pretty much. Yep. You're just firing ads.
>> Cool. Serves ads have actually been running for a week now. So it's been about seven days of data. Not much data, but we want to see what the early signs of life are. So I'm going to FaceTime him, give them a little bit of a checkin and see how things are going.
>> Yo.
>> Yo, what's up?
>> You be proud of me, man. I'm filming that.
>> Oh, very good. That was what I was going to ask you to do next. It's been a week now. So, how have the ads gone so far?
>> Yeah. So, uh yeah, been a week. 1,400 spent. Uh we had five sales calls and I've closed three of them.
>> Oh, sick.
>> And yeah, so yeah, 2500 each. So 7,500 uh back uh to me. So yeah, >> 1,400 spent. 7500.
>> Yeah. Six. to 5.3x.
Do you know what the What was the show rate?
>> Let me just get it up. I've got it here.
I've been like obsessed with this [ __ ] cuz you [ __ ] tell me to.
>> Show rate is five. No show is four.
>> Yeah.
>> So, out of nine. Yeah. Five out of nine.
>> 55 is in show.
>> Sick. I mean, I'd like to see the show rate get to Oh, we didn't even have SMS set up at the start, did we?
>> No, we didn't. Okay, >> now it's set up.
>> Yeah, sick. What I'd want to see is the show rate get to like 70%. What I would do is leave everything as is for at least another week or two because it's a week of data. It's a good week, but still like small sample size. Let it cruise. Don't touch anything really for like at least a week or two.
>> The the pixels weren't set up, so we set up the pixels.
>> Yeah, that's done now. the conversion tracking. You've got a 140 cost per schedule. So, that's pretty [ __ ] good, actually. Let everything cruise for another two or 3 weeks. And then what you want to do is you just f you just find which number is like easiest to push up. It will probably >> Do I do I put more ads into the bucket?
>> No, not yet.
>> But I can film them, right? Obviously can film >> film them and have them ready to go. So far it looks like you the one that's doing I mean like >> it's not >> Yeah. It's not a [ __ ] surprise. It's like get more organic leads hate being on camera. So film more ads around that direction.
>> Yeah. Well, I noticed that like the two outliers that are doing well. Um I mentioned the customer first. We had a student or we had a person. So that we're doing that. We've been spamming that as well.
>> Oh the committed. Oh yeah, that was the committed language that we said. I said like mention a customer.
>> Yeah. Sick. Okay, cool. Well, I'm glad everything's off to a good start. Just let everything cruise 2 3 weeks and then yeah, like the start of June, that's when you'll know what your a more accurate figure on what your cost per acquisition is. And then you just do the math and like figure out how many workshops you want to sell and it's easy.
>> Sweet.
>> All right.
>> Sick.
>> Thanks, bro. Wait. As you've been going through this process, there's probably lots of questions that have popped up.
How about how does this work? What do you think about the future? So, we actually asked all of our members at some previous workshops to submit their most burning questions and I answered it for them on stage. Here's what they had to ask me.
>> What do you think about um landing pages actually in Claude now? Like where people can actually publish their landing pages, not have to use anything.
You're just doing it straight out of like AI platforms.
>> Yeah. What I've actually been using Clawude forward landing pages is to get me out of my own head as to how I think landing pages should be built. And so what I like to do is like I have a template that I know does quite well and follows all my principles for physical and psychological resistance. But what I've done and what's been really useful is I get the transcript for my VSSL, my video sales letter, and I just give it to Claude and go based off this information alone, how do you build a
landing page for this? And it's interesting to see how it like orders the sections and and then I don't like use that landing page, but I use it as inspiration to add things to my landing page like ah like a section about what like a really common question we get is does this work for my business specifically. And so one of the things that added was like it would scroll through different industries and businesses that we've worked with to immediately close that loop. So I use it for inspiration to edit my existing
already wellperforming landing page.
They're publishing it actually in claude and they're just sharing that link so they don't even need like a go high level or do you think that's going to be more AI >> based platforms like that?
>> I think that's perfectly fine. I'm pretty I know it comes off like um a really push high level. The only reason I really push high level is it it just makes it easier for you guys to get your landing pages and your nurture sequences ready to go. Um but I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to technology. Like I really don't care what you do the clicking and typing in. I just care that you follow the right principles cuz as long if you get two landing pages that look the same, it doesn't matter if it's built on higher level WordPress, Squarespace or Web Flow or god forbid Wix. Like as long as it follows the
right principles and then obviously on the back end of that making sure there's all the right nurture sequences and following all the principles there.
That's a good question.
>> Um I was just wondering if we could answer that question about our social media. We have quite a few videos already. Um, so yeah, I was wondering if we're able to take one that's maybe done really well and then like yeah, monetize that.
>> Yeah. So like if organic re for example goes really well, can we repurpose that for an ad?
>> The correct answer is you can. Best practice would suggest you shouldn't and there's a better way to do it because typically when you post organic content, you're trying to go as wide as possible.
And so what I pretty often see happen is if you just repurpose organic content, it doesn't have a lot of the committed language and principles that you would see in an ad when you're trying to get someone to convert. And so you'll get a really really high link click-through rate on those organic posts that do well, but then the conversion rate will go down. What would be a better suggestion would be you look at why that video went well. And then remember we teach the rule of one. So, one idea, one
story, one promise, one emotion, one call to action. The organic is not going to have a call to action, but you look at the other four variables. Idea, story, promise, and emotion. And go, well, what was different about this one?
It's an outlier. So, maybe the idea was different. And then you take that idea, and then you film an ad about it.
>> Yeah. So like maybe like some of ours like um uh ACL are like very common like obviously getting having a so what some of our videos are like the ones that did really well are like that specific injury.
>> Um so like using and like maybe having a look and seeing that's the specific injury and then adding a few of those other like things.
>> Correct. Yeah. Because if that did well organically that idea should do well with ads also.
>> Okay.
>> It's a good question. So my question is almost the opposite of that. If you've got a feed on Instagram or Facebook that you're not entirely happy with the content, what do you recommend doing with that before you start running ads?
>> Oh, so like you have a really vacant organic presence.
>> Not vacant, just not as >> Oh, that's fine. 2024, I think we posted six times on Instagram. We were just running ads. Um because again remember advertising is dials not switches.
There's always things you can be doing to like improve the performance of it.
There's still things I'm not doing that I know could improve the performance of it. Um I haven't especially at smaller scale budgets. I haven't seen a less active organic presence impact ad performance because you have to remember most people most not all but most people that see the ad they pretty much just click it and go to the destination then make the inquiry they don't often I'm being careful with my words they don't often go hm before I click this link let's check the lights and see if
anyone's home and they go no they're kind of vacant what you can actually do anyone been scammed by drop shipping products for just me.
Whenever you get drop shipping ads, just click to the profile and see it has like seven [ __ ] likes on the Facebook page. It's just a burner account. Still work to a degree. Again, does not switches. I wouldn't lose sleep over impacting your ad performance.
>> All right. Thank you.
>> That being said, me posting more regularly both on Instagram and YouTube has at scale we've noticed positive uplifts. But the thing with marketing as well is like you get all these [ __ ] marketing nerds that talk about attribution and all this [ __ ] Marketing isn't as clearcut as like I saw this ad and then I converted on this landing page and then I became a customer. It's not like that. It's like you saw me [ __ ] 100 billion times before. Like you might have converted on this one ad, but was
it truly that ad or was it something that I said last week? It's kind of this.
All right. So, no, I'm not going to go that far into like [ __ ] human consciousness, but it's not just one ad that got you over the line necessarily. So, if I go back to that example before where we had people that uh opted in because they saw I won an award. If they just saw I won an award, sure, maybe some of them would have opted in, but it wasn't just they won the award. It was that and they agreed with everything that I said beforehand I saw in previous ads. It's you have to
consider again marketing is an argument.
It's a debate. You have to consider the entire argument. It's not like one argument you made claims all the credit for it. So it's kind of hard to like attribute all this stuff. Like I get I this is another question I know someone's probably going to ask is like how do I track like ad attribution and all that stuff? I kind of just boy math it. And honestly, like if you really want to know what I do in the morning to check the performance of my ads, I look at revenue on the zero P&L. I look at ad spend monthto date on my ad account. I
divide one by the other. And if I'm happy, I just [ __ ] move on with my life. That's it. If I'm like, we've made 100 grand and we spent 25. That's 4x.
Just [ __ ] off and I go do something else.
I don't get into the weeds too much.
That's for [ __ ] nerds.
>> Yes. Um I had a hiring question. So >> yeah, sure.
>> If you take for example an online service business that had all the admin, operation, client management, customer service, everything covered and the business is doing really well and wants to hire in-house. What would be the first role you would recommend hiring for to with the intention to scale?
>> Well, it depends what the bottleneck is, right? So like a business is either demand complaint constrained or supply constrained. And so you look at firstly I like to look at what do I like doing?
So I like running the ads and getting attention on the internet. So it's probably the last thing I'm ever going to [ __ ] delegate. Um but I'm not a process person. So like making Tim general manager was like a really really good play, right? So you look at things that you actively avoid but need to be done and just look at that bottleneck. I don't know what that is for you. Do you feel like you're more demand constrained or supply constrained?
>> Neither. It's more like I just need to put money into stuff like we scale to seven figures organically and now it's like well I need to put money on it. So ads. So it's like I need to know where to put my money cuz it doesn't feel constrained if that makes sense.
>> What? Wait. So you just want to spend money for no reason. That's what it sounds like.
>> Well, to for more like business is going really well, but it doesn't feel constrained or blocked anywhere.
>> Okay.
>> I just want to faster.
>> Okay. So, are you running ads in the moment?
>> No.
>> Okay. Just run ads then and then wait just until you get supply constrained.
>> That that that's it's pretty like it's not that >> complex. It's just you keep running until you hit a wall and then you just try and fix that wall. Like for I'll give I'll use us as an example. So um we're not demand constrained. Um our biggest constraint is you have no [ __ ] idea how hard it is to find an ad specialist that actually knows what they're talking about. You have no [ __ ] idea. It took us 3 months to find Michelle, Tiana, and Izzy. And it took two [ __ ] recruiters and then
like one of them didn't even [ __ ] work. And so I was just like I was just I was just like driving to the office.
cuz I'm like, I just need to fix this today cuz like not fixing this is like a $600,000 a month opportunity cost. I just need to fix this today. And then I felt like an idiot because I should have done this 3 months ago. All I did was I just put in the company Slack. I went, "Anyone that finds me an ad specialist I actually hire, I'll give you a $10,000 bonus." Filled all three positions 60 minutes later. Everyone remember their [ __ ] friends when I put that on the line.
But just like attacking that bottleneck, right? It's either like, "All right, I'm spending too much time doing this or like there's this gap here." But you just focus on that. But it doesn't sound like you have either constraint at the moment. You can just keep [ __ ] doing more of what's already working and just repeat successful actions.
>> Okay. And then when I hit the block higher.
>> Yeah. And then when you hit a wall, you go, "Well, do I need to spend more on ads or I need to optimize the ads or I don't need a high specific role." >> Cool. Thank you.
>> Sounds like your cruise was let it rip.
>> Um, what do you think is the next iteration of kind of Facebook ads and Google ads? And the example I have is Say you have four electricians here today. You do 12 of these a year.
There's 50 electricians who had your course who know your funnel who >> optimize.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. So like we've we've thought about this before like what if like every single industry is running the same ads. I'm not actually that concerned because a couple things. One, the question neglects that all the businesses are different. It assumes that the marketing is the be all and end all truth. Like you guys have seen plenty of people like try and copy our workshop model for a while until I [ __ ] nuke them in an ad. But marketing alone isn't enough to really
like compete as a business. It's like the product, it's the testimonials, it's the team, it's the story, it's all this different stuff. on a more I suppose like philosophical level. Um if I got three different versions of the Mona Lisa, like a black and white one, the original one, and then maybe like an interpretive artist one, and I put them up here, you would all vote for different versions of the same image.
And the reason that you would vote for different versions of the same image is for like your own interpretation of just like the world as it is. I was learning this concept. Um, I can't remember the philosopher's name and it's [ __ ] killing me. It has four letters in it.
But there's, [ __ ] I need to pronounce this right. Neua and phenomena. So, newma is the world as it truly is that you're not actually capable of experiencing because you're limited by like sight, like human senses, right? So, this one's really going to [ __ ] you up. Um, you guys don't actually see stuff on your peripherals. Your brain just fills it in. And so you can't really trust your sight or your senses is just start taking DMT and you'll probably start seeing the world as it really is, right?
But and then you have phenomena, which is how you view the world given your experiences, senses, like all this different stuff. And so the way that one person looks at an ad, if two people look at one ad the same way and one landing page the same way, they will both interpret it differently through the phenomena and how they experience it. And so that's kind of my deeper answer to >> Yeah, it will still work.
>> You mentioned just before that you would never outsource doing the ads.
>> Never what? Sorry.
>> Outsource doing the ads.
>> Yeah.
>> What if someone didn't want to do the ads?
>> That's fine. I I would recommend doing in-house. Now the problem that I have with agencies that not many have been able to solve and by the way like sometimes agencies can work. you still have a few legacy done for you clients, but it's just the chances of success are usually very very low. And so you're always just kind of gambling and risk assessing as a business owner and trying to give yourself the best odds of success. The thing that there's a couple problems with the agency model. Number one is the economics means that your account manager is probably juggling 15
to 25 other clients at the same time. So arguably they have less time than you do. Secondly, they're not as incentivized as you. And because of those two factors, it's actually the communication lag that's the worst. And so when you're just communicating via email and you just respond every couple days, this it's like playing, you know, like in Chinese whispers in primary school, there's always this like every single time you communicate, there's a little bit of communication quality decay. That's really what screws things up and then blows out these time
horizons. But if you have someone inhouse, maybe physically in office or at least just working in your account, that can be resolved really, really quickly. That's usually what I recommend is getting people getting an in-house team member. And you only need one that can do landing pages like knows high level and like knows your ad account.
>> If it gets in front of the camera, >> they can do that as well. Yeah, we're like team members usually like pretty youthful people. Yeah.
>> I hope you don't mind if I ask you another question about your content.
>> Go for Just out of curiosity, obviously it's not the case because the room's 50/50 men and women, >> but if I think I saw one ad for you guys where one of the girls Yeah.
>> was in the ad.
>> I think it was only one that I oversaw.
>> Y >> but if you'd like tested your ads and seen, okay, >> my my ads are putting off women or like it's really heavily skewed towards men, >> would how would that have like changed your strategy? Yeah, like we got feedback that our ads come off pretty broy and well I can't imagine why, but um yeah, that's why I'll like put different characters in them or like we'll get more testimonials with women in them. This is more relevant as well
to organic content. So I'm I wouldn't pretend to be an organic content professional at all. Um has anyone seen this software startup called Kinszo?
Couple of you. So Frank is it Frank Grief is the founder. Yeah, he was at a mastermind in Cans that I was at for Taki's program and um he had a really interesting insight. So what he gets his team to do is all of his team members have Instagram accounts that they build to uh like promote the app and get people on the waiting list. And like if it's a male in the account, it's probably going to go to a mostly male audience. If it's a female in the account, it's probably going to go to a mostly female audience.
And then like it will take into account like accents and [ __ ] like that. So you can get a wider breadth. So I think there's definitely benefit in like character diversity for sure, similar to how there's um how there is benefit in messaging diversity. But remember like people don't form their beliefs based on evidence alone. They form it on everything around it. So if it's just like I just don't like people that look like Brandon, well then you're probably not I don't know. You just don't like
[ __ ] dudes that look like me. You're like I don't care what he says. I just don't like him. But if you have like a different character like I have Jack or Pats your sofa in the ads like oh that person's not swearing as much then you you might slide with that person. So it's like character diversity is what I call it.
>> Have you like tested that? Like if ads with Paty worked better with certain demographics or certain >> It got pretty much the same results. Um the ads did all right but I think the like transcript is more curious than committed. There were a couple ads that did really really well. So I I actually started running them again now. Yeah.
But at the end of the day, the main thing is the messaging. Like people want to hear and agree with what you say and then who's saying it is kind of a supporting component to that, but not to be completely disregarded.
So if you had like a husband and wife or something that were running a business, >> would you have one that kind of that you know the husband kind of focuses more on content or ads that were kind of targeting a male audience and the and potentially >> No, you'd always let the algorithm pick it. So, this is one of the things you want to avoid is assuming that you know more about the platform than Facebook cuz it has like allegedly 57,000 points
of data on all of you. I reckon it's way [ __ ] more by the way. Um, and so it's very very good at like predicting human behavior. Like it will it's actually [ __ ] crazy how like accurate the Instagram reels are. Okay, so I'll give you an example. So, like me and Aiden like are trying to work out like organic content for Instagram. And so, has anyone seen a couple of my reels where it's just like someone says something and then I cut them off and [ __ ] like that? It's just like just complete
[ __ ] brain rot. Like, I hate it. But, we know it works. And so, if I just send if Instagram will notice that I copy the link to it, go to Slack, send it to Aiden, then come back, it go, "Oh, so Brandon wants content like that." It will send me the exact same [ __ ] content over and over and over and over again. It's like essentially alien technology when it comes to predicting human behavior and going, "What does that person look like? What does Brandon typically look for in people in his ads?" And just like matching them
together because like the question is essentially like should the man advertise to the man and the female to the like female, but it's not like 100% of the time.
>> You just let the algorithm figure it out and it'll trust me, it will figure it out. Like obviously um AI is changing so quickly >> um and even in the last year or something it's changed so much.
>> Do you think we will see that being monetized in terms of like >> oh like ads >> 15 years ago social media marketing and and Google ads and Facebook ads didn't exist like >> oh yeah ads are going to drop soon >> like we'll see Google having some kind of uh way to put ads into Gemini or something like that.
>> 100% they're already doing that.
>> Yeah. Like Chat PT is going to have ads.
And by the way, that's going to be a [ __ ] gold rush. Holy [ __ ] I'm stoked for that. Cuz what happens is when a new advertising platform drops, it's like the lowest [ __ ] cost per click you'll ever get in your [ __ ] life. It's like, dude, if you were running Google Ads in 2012, you're literally a [ __ ] multi-millionaire right now if you like got it right from the from day one. And chat GBT is like I was just talking about how Facebook can predict human behavior so accurately. How many of you use chat GBT like a personal [ __ ]
diary knows your deepest darkest secrets? How accurate is that targeting going to be? It's going to be sick. I'm so I'm so [ __ ] excited. It's going to be like one of the It's already like AI is already one of the greatest scop tools on [ __ ] earth. And then you get to like make money with. It's going to be sick. Morals don't keep the lights on. my heart. So that was a good question. One of the other things, sorry, this is a lead off to that. One of the things you all need
to consider is like the attention recession that I was talking about before. This is the first time in human history where like human IQ is actually declining and they're getting more impatient because AI means you can receive information significantly faster and you're just getting attuned to that.
So you need to consider that with all your marketing. Like you need to get to the point quicker, you need to like look at the headline quicker, above the fold is more important, like all these principles. You just think like how much do I need to click, scroll, think, all that [ __ ] and try and reduce it.
>> What is your opinion of LinkedIn as a marketing tool?
>> Photos of my cats. I mean, that's my opinion. I'm a sample size of one. I don't really like LinkedIn. What happened to my profile picture with another marketing team that kind of do something very similar to you, but they do primarily LinkedIn marketing.
>> They're one of what's right?
>> They do primarily LinkedIn marketing.
>> It it's very industry specific. And the thing with LinkedIn is it's one of those things where like you really have to set up upright. And then the other thing is my understanding is most of the time your traffic will not get served to LinkedIn. It'll be their partner networks, >> okay, >> which are not on LinkedIn. Um, cost per clicks are really, really high. Um, I'm sure it can work. Again, everything can work to a degree. I have very little experience with it though, to be transparent. I just don't like people's posts on LinkedIn cuz I think they
create that's all that beef is about.
Anyone else?
>> Shoot. I sent you three. I remember one.
Um, you might have to get your phone out.
Um, we have a we have scraped the internet to get a database.
>> Yeah.
>> And so the idea, don't shoot the messenger. This wasn't my idea. Was to um do an email nurture campaign to that cold audience.
>> We're not going to do that. Um, what we want to do is utilize that with what we're doing here. So, how do we do that in the best way?
>> Oh, yeah. So, you got like a bunch of people's email addresses for their business. Yeah.
>> Problem with that. So, basically the strategy she's suggesting is I got like 1500 emails of businesses that I could work with. Can I upload them as a customer list to Facebook? You can.
Won't work. Um because when you upload a customer list to Facebook, it needs to match that email with someone's user and it's pretty unlikely that they signed up to Facebook with their business email address. If you have stuff like their full name, postcode, phone number, as long as it's the personal number, it might match more, but you could upload an email list of 1500 and it only matches like a 100.
>> We have their business name, their just whatever it could scrape from the internet.
>> Trying mismatch, but >> yeah, try uploading it and then you give it 24 hours, it'll populate and then it'll say what the estimated audience size is.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. pros and cons of doing this? Like, is it >> It's a smarter strategy. It's not as smart a strategy as it sounds.
>> I Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But why?
>> Because it won't work.
>> It's kind of like um like another Has anyone seen my like video on like how to target people in specific buildings? It sounds cool in theory, but in practicality, it doesn't really work.
It's just like the audience is just too small and it just doesn't match. The other thing with like Facebook is that could have worked potentially in like 2017 when like none of you had any [ __ ] privacy and Facebook was like the wild west. It was actually sick. It was so good. Um, now you want cookie privacy and it doesn't [ __ ] work. And so like you had to have bigger audiences and so in the interest in Facebook's interest of PR image is more broad targeting and all the weird creepy niche
[ __ ] doesn't work anymore.
>> Yeah. Okay.
I do like the email sequence idea though.
>> You do?
>> I do because it goes right to their email inbox and it's free.
>> Yeah, but email doesn't really work unless they're it's like >> I don't know that [ __ ] attitude. But >> it can work for sure. Do you have their phone number?
>> Yeah. You mean for like cold calling?
>> All right. I'll let our sales department know about that one.
>> Yeah. I used to love cold calling people just to interrupt their day. If you were going to bring somebody in house and delegate the role of doing this at some stage.
>> Um, >> do you mean running my ads?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Like say like um who spoke earlier >> and your business were getting busy and you wanted someone else to really focus on this >> ads. Yeah. Yeah.
>> What >> if you were to write a PD? Obviously don't write me a PD, but what would you be looking for in that person? Because I find >> a lot of people really don't know [ __ ] >> Yeah. and hence why we're here.
>> Yeah. So I do this is more of a hiring question. Um so when it comes to revenue generating um roles, uh the first thing we look for is skills. So if someone I'm going to use a sales rep as an example.
If someone applies to be a sales rep. Um the first thing we do is the skills assessment and it's [ __ ] very hard.
Like when we do a skills assessment with a sales rep, we get them to book a call within 48 hours. We send them two to three call record, no two, no, three call recordings. We say, "We're going to do a mock run in 48 hours. Uh, here's here's three call recordings to study." We don't give them any indication on what success looks like. It's kind of like from special forces selection where they don't tell you what a pass is. They just want to see how [ __ ] good you go. And then we don't ask how their day was when they start the skills
assessment. We just jump straight into it. And then if they don't pass, then there we don't talk to them anymore. And then we go to a culture fit assessment.
Now with um revenue generating roles, which an ad specialist would be if they were managing my ads, like holy [ __ ] It's like, dude, if someone doesn't train martial arts, we won't hire them as a sales rep now. Like it's just a rule. We just noticed that all the sales reps you hire that train martial arts, like their opinion of hard work was really, really high. They'd work longer hours. They were really competitive.
They were super disciplined. And they're really coachable. And whenever I hired someone that wasn't a martial artist, they just weren't as competitive. They weren't as disciplined. They weren't as coaching. Like it just the way you do something is the way you do everything else. And so if someone was responsible for my ads, spending $25,000 a day, responsible to fill all the sales calendars, bring in enough sales that all the ad specialists can get paid above market, the standards are going to be very very high. Like they must be expiring every Saturday morning or I'll fire them kind of thing, right? So there's a skills component too. like
they need to know as much as me, ideally more, but then also there's the quality traits that you look for. And when I'm hiring, I try and work out what people are like when they're not at work because people will always naturally regress to the mean. And so if someone's just a degenerate on the weekend, they don't put their goody two shoes or they try to put their goody two shoes on Monday 9:00 a.m., but they're naturally going to regress to the mean.
And so I just want to work out like what do you like on the weekend because I'm just going to assume you're like that on Tuesday.
>> If a person if like not for yourself say for myself or somebody else here if we were looking to put somebody on is there a base level of education that you would say like do that as a mean not education but like >> having learned about these sorts of things. Yeah, I would I know I just shut I'd [ __ ] on agencies a lot, but get someone with agency experience generally speaking because they would have had a lot of experience handling a lot of accounts. So, if they had to juggle 25 accounts and that is just focus on
yours, they can generally be pretty good. We have a whole skills assessment.
I could probably send it to you later if you want.
>> Yeah. Cool.
>> Um but yeah, >> thanks man.
>> Um maybe one more because I know we've gone a little bit over time. Um just the back.
>> Uh this is just to go on with that.
Instead of doing that, would you recommend like for my scenario, I'm considering just hiring my wife and getting her to do the course. Would that be then better?
>> Had a couple people do that >> suited.
>> And then like cuz your wife probably like as financially incentivized as you for it to work out. So supports my argument that like no one's going to take the bank account as much as you are and all that stuff. I reckon it's a decent play. Yeah. Now that your ads are live, I need to talk you off a [ __ ] rooftop because you're going to go through this unreal gamblers rush when you start spending your first dollars on advertising. So, this is what to expect for the first few days, weeks, and months of running your ads. So, this is kind of what to expect like when you turn your ads on. Um, and also like what
to go through beforehand, right? So like we walk this through this with our W with you members the morning of day two of the workshops just so like they know what to expect because typically what happens is like when you're in this build stage so like the first stage is like the build stage, right? This is like by far the most frustrating because as a business owner, like you're really good at what you do and so you've just
pushed away and had this avoidant relationship with [ __ ] building landing pages and ads and stuff like that because the things that will frustrate you are like building a landing page. It'll be like conversion tracking as well is also like the most annoying thing people find just like getting that working. But what you're always just optimizing for is just turning ads on. I find way too many people until I [ __ ] push them out of it. Way too many people just dillydally
on turning their ads on because they have this view, which is incorrect, that their ad needs to be perfect or their landing page needs to be perfect, but they completely forget that they can just [ __ ] edit it after it's on.
>> And they're also a sample of what?
>> Exactly. Right. And the other thing is, and it's quite obvious, but it sounds silly, but it's true. If your ads are off, you have a 100% chance of your ads not working. If they're on, they now have a chance. And we can at least like talk about data.
>> Yeah.
>> Rather than just like sending it back, what do you think of this? Right.
>> If you don't bet, you can't win.
>> Exactly. Right. Only winners and quitters at the casino. And then we enter what we call the visual stage. So, this is where you start seeing things.
Um, and you see like both positive and negative things. So, for example, like a positive thing will be like you see like more leads go up, right? A negative thing will be I spent 500 bucks on this ad and got no leads, right? But they're both good because when you have like lots of different ads, you can at least see the winners and like we just did, you go, "All right, this one's doing really, really well. Let's just repeat that. This one's not working. Let's just not do it again or let's just try it a different way." >> Same as organic.
>> Yeah. Right. Then what happens is because we've done the workshop with so many people we can break this down into like the [ __ ] exact process. So like when as a beginner when you turn your ads on the first thing that you see is like traffic goes up. It's like no [ __ ] right? So, you'll log into your ad account or you'll view your analytics on your landing page and go, "Ah, I got all these v visitors." Right? But what will happen is more often than not, you'll see my traffic's gone up, but
proportional to how much traffic you will get. You'll be like, "My lead quantity isn't there right there." Right? So, you'll be like traffic up, but no or not many leads. Then what you need to do is you need to go through that troubleshooting process we went through before. And when I give this presentation in our workshops, I say like go to the [ __ ] advisory calls, ask this question. It's probably this, go to the school community and like I use this as a like training tool like how to use our like all the support that we give them. But when you're on your
own, you go through that troubleshooting process we went before, right? So it's like look at the problem which is my problem is not traffic, it's the conversion rate on the first page. So the problem's either on the page or I trace it up to the traffic. Right? Then what will happen? You'll make a couple changes. You leave it for a week and then leads will go up. So that's traffic up and that's leads quantity going up, right? So you'll like change the headline or you'll make your ad more
like committed than curious and then you're like, I swear like my conversion rate went from like.5 to like 4% or something like that, right? But what you'll usually say is like ah leads up but lead quality could be better. So like if you're a two-step funnel like you're showing it might be like 30 or 40%. Right? Or you'll get on the sales call with them and assuming you follow the right process like ah they're just like the wrong people. Then you either like fix the nurture sequence or you chase it upstream and then what will
happen then is like lead quality will go up >> right? When lead quantity goes up, lead quality goes up. What do you think naturally happens next?
uh the sales guy.
>> Yeah, exactly. Right. But you need to like quickly jump through these feedback loops. But it all starts with turning [ __ ] ads on, right? And we need to get data in. And so >> it's the same it's the same as you got to make content cuz then you get the views and then you'll get the engagement, then you get the inquiries and you get the sales.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. So like depending on how much you're spending and how aggressive you are, this could be like 7 to 14 days to get to like lead quantity up and then quality might be like another 7 to 14 days and then you should see sales going up at like the 30-day mark, right?
>> So realistically, if that 30-day pipeline is, you know, what you're getting yourself into, how much ad spend uh should you budget for for those 30 days? So those first 30 days like at least 1,000 bucks.
>> At least 1,000 bucks. Okay.
>> Yeah. Cool.
>> Yeah. Like,000 >> cuz then that will guarantee you getting through that. But then that first month to get that data. So you're probably going to go another,000 bucks, right?
>> Well, I'll get to that in a second because the reason we want like $1,000 here is obviously the more that you spend the faster you'll learn. So let's say this is like $1,000. So if someone's spending $10,000 a month, they can accelerate through these faster. Best case scenario is you get qualified leads that become sales and cover your ad spend. Bottom line, >> right?
>> Yeah. Because then >> best case scenario, >> obviously you get no leads, but then you get the data, right?
>> Yeah. And you should know like, hey man, I've spent like 500 bucks and got no leads. All right, you've clearly [ __ ] done wrong. Something wrong. This is a skill issue.
>> Let's find out.
>> Yeah. Right. And so you it's like if you're getting [ __ ] literally no leads, then it's like the problem is like on the landing page or like the messaging, right? But >> you're the per you're either paying to get what you've done correctly and know sooner or know where you [ __ ] up sooner.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
>> And so then we enter this scale stage.
Now this is where most people [ __ ] [ __ ] out. You do as well. And so like you [ __ ] like >> I'm spending like $50 to $100 a day, right? And then like your in your incentive should always be like how do I grow this thing more? Like it pisses me off. We'll get like members at our summit. They're like, "Oh, I'm at capacity now. Guess I had to turn ads off." I'm like, "You [ __ ] [ __ ] Just hire people." Like just go hire
people. Like because this thing is either like spend more or it is solve bottlenecks, right? So a business is either demand constrained or supply constrainted. It can only be one of those two things. And then once we solve this demand issue, you don't just go, oh, guess that's it then. It's like, no, like we go conquer the US. Like I need to go find more people to sell to, right? You can clip
in that interview part there. And so your goal is always like, how do I spend more on ads profitably? But because when you're a beginner, you like 100 bucks is so much money. like no it's [ __ ] not in the grand scheme of things they're [ __ ] literally printing money and like that's why there's inflation you're worried about 100 bucks right and so what we need to do is like set expectations of like when should I either like problem solve hold or spend more right so what we'll do is I'll give
you a couple scenarios so problem solve means this [ __ ] isn't working fix something >> because there's no leads >> yep so you have three options option A is problem solve That means we're making different ads.
We're tinkering with the landing page, [ __ ] like that. Option B is just hold.
She's like, don't [ __ ] know yet.
Let's just collect more data and see.
And then C, [ __ ] let it rip. It's like this is clearly working. Spend more money. Right?
Those are your problem. That this solves like ad spend.
Once you solve this and you're like, I'm at capacity, then you start looking at like solving bottlenecks, which is usually like hiring and [ __ ] like that, right? But let's say scenario A, it's been 3 days, you spent $90 and you got zero leads.
A, B, or C?
>> A.
>> You're a [ __ ] [ __ ] No, it's been 72 hours. Just wait. Like because if you're spending you've spent 90 bucks, right?
So that's like $30.
>> Sorry, I missed the 3 days part. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. Hold. Right.
>> So if it was 30 days, then I problem solve.
>> Yeah. 3 days, right? Because it's still like the ad's still being distributed and it's like just relax. What about All right. So it's been one week.
>> Mhm.
>> 7* 30. You spent $210.
You've made um I'll say some leads, no sales. A, B, or C?
>> Some leads but no sales, I'd probably do A and B.
>> I'd do B. Reason being is we have some leads like how long's your sales cycle, >> right? So, if it's been one week, let's say, and we didn't get leads for the first three days. Let's say I got a lead on the fifth day and it takes me like a week to close someone, right? So definitely not like gassing it yet. I mean, do whatever the [ __ ] you want.
Definitely not gassing it yet. Not freaking out though because we're getting leads in. It's starting to learn, especially if you're new. Like it's like a brand new pixel and all that [ __ ] >> Yeah. So that's an extra conditional step you just mentioned though.
>> What was that?
>> So the the sales length.
>> Exactly. Cuz remember, how do we how do we measure advertising? The suitcase of advertising.
>> It's net profit.
>> Yeah. The profit. Yeah. So, you got to make that timeline realistic.
>> Yeah. What about we're one month in um 30 time 30 900 bucks. We spent 900 bucks on ads. Um we're getting leads.
Uh but we I don't know. Basically, it's like broke even.
>> Yeah. Problem solved for sure.
>> Yeah. Not freaking out, but 30 days is like a good set of data to look on. That being said, we'd be looking at those 30 days and seeing like, has there been an uplift? Like, has my results looking like that? Because if they're looking like that, then it's like, let's just [ __ ] hold, right? Let's not do anything. Um, >> but yeah, absolutely. Like, 30 days of data because remember when we were doing the optimizing, I was looking the last 30 days.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Can't do that in the first week.
Can't do that in the first.
>> Let's talk about this specific bit, your example, and what most agencies do. Why do they not problem solve?
>> Because they're [ __ ] [ __ ] That's why they're just like so like why agencies don't problem solve? Because they don't one, they don't understand the customer. So like they don't know what to problem solve in the [ __ ] first place. Two, problem solving takes a lot of time because you got to go through like these ads didn't work, these ads didn't work. And then you got to send that to the client. The client's got to go, "No, I don't want to do that one. I want to do this once instead." And you go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
And then by the time you've like actually done the thing, like 30 days have passed and like you've just repeated another 30 days of unsuccessful data. That's why I always tell business owners that the like this matters because like let's say you're spending $100 a day. Well, every day that this doesn't get fixed, it's like we're $100 down. Like imagine me if I was just going to delegate that to someone like $20,000 like every 24 hours that passes, $20,000 just leaves my bank account. We didn't [ __ ] fix something. It's just you're always the most financially incentivized person. You check the bank account every single [ __ ] morning.
you see all the the [ __ ] meta receipt transactions. And so if you're feel like this isn't working, you're not when you when you do problem solve, you'll problem solve it tomorrow, >> right? All right. What about this?
>> What about What about holding?
>> Hold.
>> Yeah. Why would they hold?
>> Oh, no. Cuz I want to keep you on the retainer. And then C is like unless they have like a performance-based incentive, them scaling is just like more [ __ ] work for them because you had to remember like most like unless they're like on a performance-based incentive, which I think is taking off more in the US. Their incentive with um like most Australian agencies is just like I don't know $2,000 a month retainer and their goal is to like it's just economics.
They're just trying to like have as many clients as they can as profitable as they can. And if they're not getting paid to just like make more ads, build more landing pages, manage more stuff, they're going to default to hold. So like most agencies, like just by the way the economics works is like their financial incentive is just to do this regardless of the outcome. They're just going to naturally gravitate towards this. If it makes sense to scale, unless the client tells them to do it, they're going to hold because it's the least amount of work. And if it's going okay and they should actually be problem
solving, it's going to naturally gravitate towards hold.
>> Yep.
>> All right. All right. What about month two? So, let's say month two, we're like, "All right, cool. We spent um we still spent 1,000 bucks. We made $10,000 back." A, B, or C? Literally.
>> Yeah. No [ __ ] All right. What about month three? We spent $3,000 and we got, let's say, we got an 8x return on ad spend. So, $24,000 back, right?
>> So, we went from 10 to eight. Still letter RIP.
>> Y. What about we go month? So, let me write this down. Month three, we spent 3k, we made uh 24K, so that was 8x. What about month four? We spend $5,000. That's a five, not a three. And then we get um
>> Write that better. Write that better.
Let's say we spend $5,000 and we go from 8x to um 4x. So, we went to $20,000.
A, B, or C.
>> I would problem solve. I would wonder why it's gone down. But you're still make you're making less though in month four overall. What I would do is >> you're making less profit there.
>> What if this was December?
>> Okay, it's Christmas. People are doing other >> whole, right? Like I wouldn't not do anything. Action's better than inaction.
>> Well, that profit's 21 and that profit's 15. So profit's gone down. That's a problem to solve.
>> Exactly. Right. But we can also look and the point I'm trying to make here is we can look at larger sample sizes of data now. Right. So if we combine, we made $44,000 from $8,000. So 8 16 32 >> 40. It's like 4 and a halfx, right?
>> Yeah. So 4,400 or 44,000.
>> 44,000.
>> Right. So still decent. Like I wouldn't be gassing ad spend here, but let's say it's December. I'll be like, "All right, let's look forward to January." >> Yeah.
>> Right. and just kind of holding it. Does that make sense? Because you have to remember that like >> your results are going to wildly fluctuate like day to day, week to week, even like month to month.
>> What about uh like March for example?
Um, there was something about meta ads not working properly or something.
>> Oh yeah, cuz whenever they [ __ ] like roll out whenever you see a news article and they're like Facebook's just announced the like big new like $8 billion project, just watch your CPMs go with >> Is that what you hold?
>> You should. I just spent more and threw money.
That's why Rox tanked last month. But like you had the point I want to make is >> and I didn't have it there but like once we got to like month three, four and five then we can look at the combined financial quarter. Yeah.
>> Right. And then you can figure out like all right my return on ad spend at this level of scale is like 5x and then it becomes really really easy to predict things. But you have to remember like when you turn ads on well actually like let's say these are your appointments right? Like these are just days. Each of these points are just days. When you just turn your ads on, let's say it's like four days in, when you just look at that, looks like it's a wild fluctuation. So, I got no leads on Monday and then five leads on Tuesday
and then like one lead there and then like it seems really really inconsistent, but that's cuz you're zoomed into that tiny part of the thing.
But what you want to look at is you zoom out and you look at like 30 days of data and then you can just look at this trend line in between. Yeah. That line of best fits what you want.
>> Yeah.
>> It's like stocks.
>> Yeah. And so you're looking at these trend lines and these patterns because it's going to go up, down, up, down, up, down, but it's going to like regress to this mean, but you want to be clear on like what that mean is. Is it in range?
And if it's not in range, then we start going through the optimization process.
>> And so that's it. Everything that I know about generating leads with Facebook ads. If you follow those instructions, you should be wildly successful yourself. If you want our help, there's a link in the description. And that should be 12 hours about now.