WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:18.695 You go into a meeting. You're oh, there's the person who hadn't said anything, and somehow or another, they're, like, right there at the table, but nobody can even remember they were in the meeting. It's like this amazing magic trick almost. Right? There is a fear that is if I get seen, I'm going to be seen as inherently bad. All of the fear of being seen is 00:00:19.015 --> 00:00:21.815 a belief that there's something inherently wrong with you. 00:00:22.215 --> 00:00:24.295 If they see me, they will find 00:00:24.990 --> 00:00:30.190 broken. Right? And so one of the ways to work on it is to actually open your heart to yourself 00:00:30.750 --> 00:00:37.950 and say, what is it that I need? Because that flies exactly in the face of me worried about what you think. 00:00:40.675 --> 00:01:04.910 We've been getting a lot of questions from people about the fear of being seen, why they want it so much, but they're also so scared of it. And right when they're about to be seen, about to be known, they they turn away and run from it. So let's do an episode where we dive into that and then talk about what people can do about it. Great. Perfect. Yeah. Awesome. So let's just start with, like, what is this? There's there's a lot of different ways that this can show up for folks. Yeah. 00:01:05.310 --> 00:01:10.135 So the fear of being seen, it can be split into two categories. There's the category that 00:01:10.375 --> 00:01:13.975 people who are just, like, acute in this feel, which is, 00:01:14.375 --> 00:01:15.415 oh, I 00:01:16.055 --> 00:01:21.095 am scared. I have social anxiety. I can figure out how to be completely, 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:23.340 like, invisible. 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:33.100 You go into a meeting, you're because, oh, there's the person who hadn't said anything, and somehow or another, they're, like, right there at the table, but nobody can even remember they were in the meeting. It's like this amazing 00:01:34.025 --> 00:01:37.865 this magic trick almost. Right? For those folks, it's very much about, 00:01:38.985 --> 00:01:42.585 like, oh, this isn't safe, and so my job is to avoid. 00:01:43.225 --> 00:01:47.465 And so there's oftentimes, there's a strong avoidance pattern, and oftentimes, 00:01:47.950 --> 00:01:50.830 what happened was somebody in their childhood 00:01:51.310 --> 00:01:53.870 taught them that, like, to be seen 00:01:54.110 --> 00:01:55.630 was going to be 00:01:56.590 --> 00:02:01.550 not good. One of my clients who had this a lot, he doesn't have it anymore, luckily, 00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:03.070 but had this a lot, 00:02:04.225 --> 00:02:06.865 He lived in a Eastern European country, 00:02:07.505 --> 00:02:07.985 and 00:02:08.865 --> 00:02:10.865 it was before the wall came down, 00:02:11.505 --> 00:02:18.225 and his parents were, like, tall poppy, no good, particularly his mom. His dad had gone, so his mom and so his mom was constantly, 00:02:18.860 --> 00:02:25.580 don't be seen. Don't be seen. Don't play the music. Don't be too macho. You're gonna get cut down. You're gonna be taken out. 00:02:26.300 --> 00:02:30.540 And so he was at once dominated by somebody who some somebody's fear, 00:02:31.275 --> 00:02:34.155 and he was told, like, do not be big. 00:02:34.475 --> 00:02:38.555 And so And that might have been true in that culture. Absolutely. Absolutely. 00:02:39.275 --> 00:02:40.395 And so he 00:02:40.955 --> 00:02:42.955 like, I remember he disappeared 00:02:42.955 --> 00:02:47.630 from the first time he did groundbreakings. Just just was wasn't even in the room. 00:02:48.830 --> 00:02:55.950 And so that's Not physically. He was physically in the room. He was physically in the room, but nobody could remember him. No. Like, he he it was literally 00:02:56.030 --> 00:02:58.830 as if he was doing a magician's trick of 00:02:59.515 --> 00:03:10.155 of being unseen while being seen. It was amazing to watch him, and we've now seen that pattern lots of times. The other form of not being seen is something that we all have 00:03:10.555 --> 00:03:17.070 that I don't think anybody has ever showed up at a rapid fire coaching and been completely not nervous. 00:03:17.390 --> 00:03:23.710 Right? And so the there's a core way in which we all are scared of being seen, and that's some shame, 00:03:24.030 --> 00:03:26.270 some way that we're scared that we're actually 00:03:26.750 --> 00:03:33.845 not good. We're not inherently good that we're inherently broken in some way. And so to be fully seen in that 00:03:34.725 --> 00:03:35.445 is 00:03:35.685 --> 00:03:36.965 is a whole another 00:03:37.365 --> 00:03:53.180 thing that just kinda hits all people on some level. And so both of them are are ways of it that happen. One is this very cute thing and one is something that happens for everybody. How does this often play out to the point in someone's life where they start to experience that this is holding them back? 00:03:53.500 --> 00:03:53.980 And 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:56.940 what what typically happens at that inflection point? 00:03:57.260 --> 00:04:01.100 Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting thing. I think on some level, 00:04:02.525 --> 00:04:22.060 depending on how hardcore it is. Right? So if somebody's got deep social anxiety, they immediately know this is holding me back. There's this fear in that somehow or another, they want to be liked. Like, there's this desire, oh, I wanna be liked. And there is a fear that is if I get seen, I'm going to be seen as inherently bad. 00:04:22.620 --> 00:04:23.180 So 00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:25.420 there's there's two different 00:04:25.660 --> 00:04:29.900 and so they have kind of two choices at that point. I'm gonna just seclude myself, 00:04:30.405 --> 00:04:33.045 in which they become more and more and more lonely, 00:04:33.365 --> 00:04:36.965 or I'm gonna go out into the world and interact 00:04:36.965 --> 00:04:37.925 in the world, 00:04:38.325 --> 00:04:49.670 and maybe I get more lonely depending on how real I am, or I just stay really quiet in a crowd and then I feel even more lonely because people don't see me. And so the loneliness builds 00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:50.870 and 00:04:51.110 --> 00:04:54.950 this idea that something is wrong with me builds over time. 00:04:55.925 --> 00:04:59.525 And they're not even able to see how people actually 00:05:00.965 --> 00:05:01.845 see them. 00:05:02.245 --> 00:05:20.180 Right? So I've seen people who have, like, either the social anxiety or scared to say the thing in the meeting, and everybody thinks they're really, really smart. And they really want the feedback, but they can't actually see it. Yeah. And so career wise, this totally stifles people. It's gonna limit you in, like, any kind of executive or leadership role. 00:05:20.500 --> 00:05:24.100 And so they start to see that. They start to recognize that that's what's going on. 00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:25.780 And then 00:05:26.385 --> 00:05:31.505 for most of us, like, for the for the folks who are scared of being seen 00:05:32.065 --> 00:05:35.905 in the existential way, which is, you know, most everybody, 00:05:36.545 --> 00:05:41.410 what they start doing what what starts happening is they just feel unsatisfied, 00:05:41.410 --> 00:05:45.250 like, the the sense of connection in their life. They know it can be stronger, 00:05:45.570 --> 00:05:47.810 and it's just never particularly 00:05:47.810 --> 00:05:51.890 there. And it doesn't really go there until they 00:05:52.450 --> 00:05:57.215 start really seeing themselves. To some degree, all of the fear of being seen is 00:05:57.535 --> 00:06:00.335 a belief that there's something inherently wrong with you. 00:06:01.855 --> 00:06:16.100 And if and you or somebody else is gonna find it out. How does this show up in, say, romantic relationships and in family? We've talked a lot about going out into the world Yeah. And, you know, in work meetings. But what about what about in love relationships? 00:06:16.580 --> 00:06:17.540 Devastating. 00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:25.635 Like, it's it's super devastating because basically what it means is I'm not gonna tell you what I need and what I want and who I am. 00:06:26.835 --> 00:06:33.235 And so if it there and what's interesting is some people, they can be in this very safe environment and they can share that. 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:42.000 And and then some some people can't even share it in that environment. Some people can go out into work and be like, this is what I think blah blah blah blah, but when they come home, 00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:54.025 they can't share what's really there. They can't share whether it's like that kinky sexual thing that they want or they can't share the fact that they really wanna be rich, or they can't share the fact that they really think 00:06:54.425 --> 00:06:55.705 your mom sucks 00:06:55.865 --> 00:07:00.905 and I don't wanna be with her. They can't share all the, like, little things that happen 00:07:01.065 --> 00:07:15.200 in life, and so they start walking on eggshells and start being different people. And so it just starts to erode any relationship because eventually you're gonna get resentful over the fact that the person across from you isn't actually 00:07:15.440 --> 00:07:23.095 considering you or understanding you because we can't read each other's minds. Right. Right. So they can't possibly consider you if you're not showing yourself. 00:07:23.255 --> 00:07:37.990 So then you start to collect evidence over time that you're not being considered. And that you're bad. Yeah. That's the golden algorithm which we go into, you know, obviously, in other podcasts and stuff, which is the more that I am scared to be seen, the more evidence that I can collect 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:39.510 that shows 00:07:40.150 --> 00:07:47.110 that, oh, if somebody sees me, there's gonna be a problem. Yeah. Right? Because I show up incredibly scared. People are not 00:07:48.335 --> 00:07:51.935 people are not as receptive to fear as as confidence, 00:07:52.335 --> 00:07:53.695 you know, that 00:07:53.935 --> 00:08:00.975 that I'm hesitant in the way that I talk about something. I'm viewing other people's responses that might just be curious and full of wonder 00:08:01.870 --> 00:08:04.910 as they don't believe me. They're they're challenging me. 00:08:05.310 --> 00:08:07.470 And see, I I said something that was bad. 00:08:08.190 --> 00:08:12.750 And so that's so it's one of those things that it does accumulate on itself 00:08:13.390 --> 00:08:14.270 because 00:08:14.985 --> 00:08:18.265 the emotion that we are scared to have, 00:08:19.065 --> 00:08:25.225 we are avoiding the exact way that we are actually inviting it in. So I'm scared to be seen, 00:08:25.545 --> 00:08:26.505 and therefore, 00:08:26.825 --> 00:08:28.265 like, when people see me, 00:08:28.840 --> 00:08:30.680 they see this scared thing 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:58.270 and I don't get the love that I want to see. I've proven that I'm no good. Yeah. So we've talked about this belief, the the belief that I'm I'm unworthy, I'm bad, I'm wrong, I'm unlovable. Yeah. So how does this show up on a different levels of like the head, the heart, the gut? Like, because a lot of times when somebody freezes, they intellectually know I'm not bad. I have something valuable to share right now. What is making my entire body seize up? Why is my throat clenching? Why That's a great question. Why am I sweating? 00:08:58.430 --> 00:09:06.190 Why did that entire meeting happen without me even recognizing what was occurring? Yeah. It's an interesting one because that's exactly what you see when you're 00:09:07.150 --> 00:09:11.285 when rapid coaching is happening. People are like, and 00:09:11.285 --> 00:09:18.885 they know that yeah. But their head knows on some level that they they raised their hand. They want this thing. And then when the spotlight's on them, they're like, each 00:09:19.685 --> 00:09:32.350 one of these things, whether it's the head or the the human side, the emotional side, or the mammalian side, or the nervous system side. Each one of these things can be on or off. But if they're on, the head is basically saying, 00:09:32.670 --> 00:09:34.030 these people don't like me. 00:09:34.350 --> 00:09:36.830 They they if they see me, they're gonna think that I'm bad. 00:09:37.625 --> 00:09:41.945 I'm bad. That's what the head is doing it, and it's constantly self correcting. 00:09:42.425 --> 00:09:45.625 You said that wrong. You should have said it this way. Why didn't you say it that way? 00:09:45.945 --> 00:10:04.630 Yeah. Like, all that I can solve this by intellectually figuring out the way to be to get my needs met and really loved. Yeah. As if, like, people need you to be perfect to to like you, you know? And so that's what the the head is doing. If the head isn't doing that and it's just happening in the in the emotional center and the nervous system, 00:10:04.870 --> 00:10:05.750 then the head is like, 00:10:06.325 --> 00:10:12.725 why am I why don't just just speak. Why aren't you just speaking? You know, which is which is the criticism 00:10:13.685 --> 00:10:14.245 of 00:10:15.045 --> 00:10:27.880 of the parent or the teacher or whatever saying, just do the thing. So it's like you've actually turned the eye of Siren on yourself. Right. Like, what like and so you're under attack. Yeah. Right? And so and the more you're under attack, 00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:43.785 why aren't you doing this thing? Why why isn't this going right? The more the the rest of your system starts freezing up. And it ultimately can become a panic attack, a full blown literal panic attack. Well, right. So it's amazing when you think about it. It's like, to some degree, there's that external 00:10:43.785 --> 00:10:50.260 eye of Siren, like, okay. The the world is now paying attention to me. Somebody is going to criticize 00:10:50.260 --> 00:10:50.820 me. 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:52.820 And the truth is, like, 00:10:53.620 --> 00:10:57.380 there's no time you're gonna be in public where somebody's not having a judgmental thought about you. 00:10:58.180 --> 00:11:07.095 Whether you're confident or nonconfident, whether you're scared or not scared, whether you have social anxiety or don't have social anxiety, we're all facing that same reality. 00:11:08.375 --> 00:11:10.855 And and then there's the internal 00:11:11.335 --> 00:11:13.895 eye of siren, and when that clicks on, 00:11:14.135 --> 00:11:18.775 then that can really rev up the emotional or the nervous system 00:11:19.410 --> 00:11:23.490 side of it. So the emotional side of it is typically fear. 00:11:23.650 --> 00:11:26.050 Some version of fear and shame combined. 00:11:26.130 --> 00:11:30.690 And so there's fear of the being seen, but there's also the shame of like, 00:11:30.930 --> 00:11:35.010 if they see me, they will find out that I am broken. Right? And so 00:11:35.385 --> 00:11:41.865 the I'm broken and the fear together is pretty much what's going on in those moments. Then the 00:11:42.345 --> 00:11:48.185 nervous system side is just like fight, flight, or freeze. That's what's happening. Oftentimes, 00:11:48.665 --> 00:11:53.870 folks, when they when they are being seen in a meeting or something like that, they'll just 00:11:54.590 --> 00:12:02.270 they'll just freeze. Right. Or some of them will please. Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'll say the thing that makes everybody happy, and then they're 00:12:02.510 --> 00:12:10.455 oh, okay. Great. Yeah. Just blend in. Blend in. And so Yeah. It's one of those two things is gonna happen on the nervous system level. And so 00:12:11.015 --> 00:12:27.160 and it's gonna be very activated. They're gonna feel hot. They're gonna feel, you know, like a lot of charge in the system from the from the nervous system. Yeah. Okay. So you you've got you've got all these layers of a stack here. You've got the the thoughts, the emotions, the the nervous system, and sometimes they're just 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:37.155 fighting each other. Like, intellectually, somebody knows I have something valuable to share here. I showed up to this coaching session because I wanna see through my patterns. Yes. And the nervous system's 00:12:37.235 --> 00:12:39.875 locked up. Right. Maybe even vice versa sometimes. So 00:12:40.915 --> 00:12:57.710 I I'd love to talk about now where where can somebody start working on this first? What's of all these different ways that this shows up, what's a what's a good entry point for somebody to start investigating to change the pattern? Yeah. So, like, I I tell you a story. I had dinner the other night with 00:12:58.445 --> 00:13:02.605 this husband and wife team. They're, like, really super powerful, 00:13:02.845 --> 00:13:04.525 doing great stuff in the world. 00:13:05.485 --> 00:13:06.125 And 00:13:06.765 --> 00:13:11.245 the wife, every time she saw that I saw her, she would 00:13:12.520 --> 00:13:14.280 you know that she is, 00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:28.215 like, amazing on all fronts. She's a beautiful person. She's a beautiful woman, physically beautiful. She's done crazy cool stuff in the world, achieved stuff that most people would dream about achieving. 00:13:29.255 --> 00:13:36.455 And as a mom, and loving, and sweet, like, just like, wow. Right? And every time I saw her, she would 00:13:37.680 --> 00:13:39.040 look up, look down, like 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:43.280 and at one point in the meeting, her husband got up, 00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:45.600 went to the bathroom, 00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:48.400 and I started talking to her about 00:13:48.800 --> 00:13:55.655 and she was basically saying some some version of, like, my kids worried about my kids not getting their needs met. I'm not worried about me 00:13:56.215 --> 00:13:57.095 not 00:13:57.095 --> 00:14:06.775 getting my needs met. I'm like, oh. And she's like, yeah. Basically, my needs are met, and I just went through. Like, really emotional needs needs being met? That scene. And she just, like, shut down. 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:21.890 Her husband came back, and he's like, well, did you open up more? Like, what did you say now that I was gone? She goes, no. No. No. I just shut down even more. And then they laughed about it. She said it's great. And then, yeah, it was great. And so it was self aware too. Right? Amazing woman. And then 00:14:22.290 --> 00:14:23.170 and then 00:14:23.625 --> 00:14:25.545 and then they both laugh together. 00:14:25.865 --> 00:14:28.425 But that's, like, the quintessential 00:14:28.505 --> 00:14:30.185 thing of, like, okay. Well, 00:14:30.985 --> 00:14:33.305 what is it that makes her, 00:14:33.785 --> 00:14:37.145 like, this amazing person but not being able to 00:14:38.930 --> 00:14:40.450 admit her own needs 00:14:41.250 --> 00:14:48.370 is very much exactly the same thing as being seen and what made her scared, which is this shame 00:14:49.250 --> 00:14:56.595 of, like, oh, it's not okay for me to have needs, or the needs that I have aren't okay, or who I am generally isn't okay. 00:14:56.915 --> 00:14:58.355 And so I'm gonna just 00:14:59.315 --> 00:15:00.195 evacuate 00:15:00.195 --> 00:15:01.635 all of my own 00:15:02.195 --> 00:15:07.180 things that I need, that I that I want because they must be bad. 00:15:07.660 --> 00:15:10.220 And so those two things are part and parcel 00:15:10.700 --> 00:15:12.300 of the of the pattern. 00:15:12.780 --> 00:15:17.420 And so if you're if you're working on the pattern, there's lots and lots of ways to work on it. 00:15:18.415 --> 00:15:22.735 But one of the ways to work on it is to actually open your heart to yourself 00:15:23.215 --> 00:15:25.615 and say, what is it that I need? 00:15:27.455 --> 00:15:31.055 Because that flies exactly in the face of 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:34.740 somebody me worried about what you think. 00:15:35.060 --> 00:15:47.540 Right. You worried about what you're you're right? Because I'm now where I'm all about you. I'm worried about you. Which is another way of trying to take care of your needs. So if if my needs in if my needs directly aren't safe, aren't 00:15:48.005 --> 00:15:59.365 welcome, aren't good, then if I take care of yours, then by proxy, my needs might get taken care of. Right. Except for it never works. Right. Or eventually doesn't work, which is why 00:15:59.780 --> 00:16:05.060 just going, oh, what do I need can totally start changing this pattern at a core level. 00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:11.940 So that's one of the ways that you can really work on how do you, you know, how do you change that core 00:16:13.385 --> 00:16:20.345 how do you change that basic fear of being seen? Yeah. So that's one. The other one is to actually deeply see yourself. 00:16:21.785 --> 00:16:28.825 Right? Like, what's actually true? Right. How how does how does somebody do that? Well, the dilemma is that most of us have, like, soul dysmorphia. 00:16:28.825 --> 00:16:39.840 Right? Like like, we see ourselves differently just the way that an anorexic person looks in the mirror and sees themselves as fat. Most of us sees our see ourselves, like, not very clearly. 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.600 And so if you want to have a clean lens of seeing yourself, 00:16:44.705 --> 00:16:56.225 Connection Course View is, like, one of the best ways because if you're vulnerable with yourself, if you're impartial with yourself, if you have empathy with yourself, if you have wonder about yourself, that's where you start to see yourself 00:16:56.465 --> 00:17:00.625 more clearly. And that ties together with the recognizing your own needs because 00:17:00.630 --> 00:17:19.125 you're not gonna be seeing yourself if you're just seeing everyone around you. You're reading their minds, trying to fix them, trying to get everything okay for them in order to be safe. Yeah. Exactly. And so the weird part is, like, the vulnerable with your yourself, that's the, like, that's the tricky part here. Because what most people think are is gonna be vulnerable is, like, okay. Vulnerably, 00:17:19.365 --> 00:17:19.845 I 00:17:20.405 --> 00:17:31.440 and I had a client that did exactly this. I was, like, they had this fear of being seen. I'm, like, like, let's be vulnerable with yourself. He's, like, the vulnerable thing is that everybody doesn't like me. 00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:42.000 You know what I mean? I'm like, that's not still about everybody else. It's still the dysmorphia. It's still the same pattern. And it's also you're not being vulnerable because you've told yourself that story a 100 times. 00:17:43.335 --> 00:17:45.895 So what's the actual story that actually makes you, 00:17:46.215 --> 00:17:47.575 like, go, ugh. 00:17:48.215 --> 00:17:54.775 It's like, what is that? And, like, can you see some place where somebody actually really liked you and you couldn't 00:17:55.175 --> 00:17:57.650 acknowledge it or let it in? That 00:17:57.810 --> 00:18:00.290 and he immediately, he felt 00:18:00.530 --> 00:18:02.850 how much more vulnerable that was 00:18:03.890 --> 00:18:14.765 than to say people don't like me. That wasn't vulnerable at all. And so so the only thing I'd say, the impartiality, the empathy, and the wonder, that all clicks with this pattern. The vulnerability 00:18:14.765 --> 00:18:17.165 with yourself in this particular pattern 00:18:18.045 --> 00:18:19.165 doesn't mean 00:18:19.405 --> 00:18:21.165 I'm admitting that I'm bad. 00:18:21.565 --> 00:18:26.685 Yeah. It means I'm admitting a truth about myself that I don't want to see. 00:18:27.860 --> 00:18:57.200 Right? And so that's that's, like, part of, like, switching that around. Yeah. So, I mean, that example brings up a really interesting nuance, which is that if you if you say, okay, I wanna be vulnerable with myself. I'm gonna look at myself and see myself clearly. The first thing that's likely to happen is you're gonna see yourself exactly the way you've been seeing yourself already. Correct. And you're gonna hide from yourself exactly the things you've been hiding from yourself already. Yeah. So there's it seems like in that case, in that coaching moment Yeah. Something very specific that happened was actually directing 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:00.720 the person's attention to counter evidence 00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:08.640 for what they actually currently thought. So if you're if you're going internally, you're like, what's what's what's vulnerable with myself right now? Nobody likes me. Okay. 00:19:09.245 --> 00:19:14.285 If I just assume that that is actually the story I've been telling myself already and I haven't seen anything new, 00:19:15.005 --> 00:19:50.125 how do I completely invert what I think I'm seeing Yeah. And look for the truth in the other side of it? Yeah. So the nervous system is what's gonna tell you that or the, like, the pucker is what's gonna tell you that quicker. Right? So intellectually, you can do it by just saying, okay. Let's look at counter evidence, and what's the counter evidence I don't wanna admit to? Yeah. Like, that's the easy question intellectually. Right. And that can surface the pucker. Like, oh, wait. I have actually been seen in love before, and then the pucker shows up. Yeah. Exactly. And, like, right? And then you're when when you feel that pucker, then you know you're actually in that vulnerable place rather than 00:19:51.350 --> 00:19:59.590 in the place that you're normally telling yourself or normally beating yourself up with. So that's another one. The other thing that you can do if you're scared of being seen 00:19:59.830 --> 00:20:02.310 is to open your heart to the other person. 00:20:03.030 --> 00:20:07.110 Because what you've done is you stopped love and connection from flowing 00:20:07.325 --> 00:20:10.685 between you and the other person. You're worried 00:20:10.765 --> 00:20:12.125 about what they're gonna 00:20:12.365 --> 00:20:14.285 think, which means you've disconnected. 00:20:14.445 --> 00:20:23.860 Yeah. You've objectified them in a way. There there's a way that they are now an object in your game of self regulating and feeling safe. Also, you're rejecting them. Yeah. 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:30.980 Like, there's a way in which you're gonna hurt me. Basically, you're gonna what you're saying is you are gonna hurt me, which is a form of rejection. 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:33.860 Yeah. And so you've already dismissed them. 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:40.595 And so a counteraction is to actually open your heart to them and say, oh, how like, how open 00:20:40.755 --> 00:20:50.195 and loving can I be to this person no matter what they think or feel about me? That doesn't mean that I'm not gonna draw boundaries. It doesn't mean I'm gonna take abuse. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna be, like, 00:20:50.435 --> 00:20:52.115 a punching bag for somebody. 00:20:52.595 --> 00:20:53.795 But it does mean, oh, 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:56.980 right, I'm gonna actually stay connected with you. 00:20:57.460 --> 00:21:03.140 So what's amazing is that if I choose to be connected with you, it doesn't really matter 00:21:03.620 --> 00:21:06.420 if you're connected to me from my experience. 00:21:07.485 --> 00:21:17.165 Right? If I'm connected to you, and you can like, anybody who's listening to this right now can just do it. You can just say, okay. Like, deeply connect with Brett. Brett 00:21:17.165 --> 00:21:26.660 is, like, not connecting with you right now. Brett's connecting with me. But, like, connect with Brett and notice how much less you give a shit what Brett thinks 00:21:27.860 --> 00:21:32.980 about you because there and how much that connection doesn't really require Brett. 00:21:34.340 --> 00:21:42.215 So that's the amazing thing. It's like, oh, I can open my heart. I can connect with somebody, and that dissipates my concern with what they think about me, 00:21:42.615 --> 00:21:44.775 which is, like, mind boggling 00:21:45.575 --> 00:21:53.550 and, like, it just so reverse of the way that you think things. And it it as it dissipates the concern for what they think about you, it increases the wonder for 00:21:53.710 --> 00:21:55.150 what they're experiencing, 00:21:55.150 --> 00:22:06.190 which might be thoughts about you. Right. But the wonder replacing the concern is an interesting shift and opens up the nervous system, opens up the sense of safety and the receptivity 00:22:06.715 --> 00:22:08.955 to new data, new information. Yeah. 00:22:09.755 --> 00:22:12.635 And then wonder is another great one. So let's just say 00:22:13.035 --> 00:22:14.875 somebody is you're 00:22:14.955 --> 00:22:15.835 you're showing up, 00:22:16.395 --> 00:22:17.355 somebody sees you, 00:22:18.780 --> 00:22:21.420 you're like, this is going horribly wrong. Mhmm. 00:22:21.580 --> 00:22:22.780 Like, Hughes wonder, 00:22:23.340 --> 00:22:25.820 oh, what are you seeing right now that's 00:22:27.500 --> 00:22:28.140 that 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:34.725 that's got you upset? Or how upset are you at at me right now? Or how are you how are you feeling about this relationship? 00:22:34.885 --> 00:22:42.485 There's, a thousand questions that will teach you that a lot of what you think is just not true at all about the other person. What 00:22:43.045 --> 00:22:52.030 if the other person has been running the same pattern? And so you ask them those questions, and then they finally have the opportunity to dismiss you and do all the stuff that you've been doing. Yeah. 00:22:52.350 --> 00:22:56.910 Great. And so you take that personally. You're like, I knew it. I knew it. They don't like me. 00:22:58.005 --> 00:23:01.605 Yeah. So let let's just assume that for a second. Let's assume that 00:23:02.405 --> 00:23:03.685 you are 00:23:04.805 --> 00:23:08.965 not being liked by somebody. Well, the first question is it you that showed up, 00:23:10.830 --> 00:23:12.910 Or is this frozen scared, 00:23:13.470 --> 00:23:22.990 like Right. So I'm bad because I get frozen scared. That's just me, and people don't like the frozen scared, and I don't know how to change it. What do I do? Right. Exactly. So so the first question is, like, is that you? 00:23:24.035 --> 00:23:27.395 That's the first question you have to ask yourself. Is that frozen scared thing you? 00:23:28.195 --> 00:23:34.675 Like, what's you? What do you have to do to show up to be you? And the second question that's really good to ask yourself, are you happy with you? 00:23:35.235 --> 00:23:36.515 Is this how you wanna be? 00:23:37.610 --> 00:23:44.810 One of the things that I notice is that when somebody's being the way that they wanna be, they care a lot less about what other people think. Right? 00:23:46.330 --> 00:23:55.235 Because they're not in their own shame. This is actually I'm really proud of this. So oftentimes, if someone's, like, preparing for a meeting or preparing for, like, the first date, 00:23:55.875 --> 00:24:01.555 they're thinking about what the other person's gonna think about them, and they're trying to manage that situation. 00:24:01.955 --> 00:24:08.610 But if they go in and say, what's the way that I can behave that will make me super proud no matter what happens? 00:24:10.130 --> 00:24:11.890 Everything starts changing. 00:24:12.290 --> 00:24:12.930 Right. 00:24:13.330 --> 00:24:19.890 Yeah. So Yeah. Because you're loving yourself. You're opening your heart to yourself, and the opening in the heart works 00:24:19.285 --> 00:24:21.525 whether towards the other person or towards yourself. 00:24:21.765 --> 00:24:36.330 You're also moving from a orientation to outcomes and more towards an orientation to something that's a more direct feedback in yourself in the moment of how do I want to be. Right. Am I the way I want to be right now? Am I showing up how I wanna show up? And then everything else that happens, I don't need to be tracking, 00:24:36.330 --> 00:24:37.210 predicting, 00:24:37.690 --> 00:24:38.570 futuring, 00:24:39.130 --> 00:24:42.250 taking personally. All those things get to fall away if my 00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:53.355 direct feedback for my behavior is if I'm showing up in a way that feels great to me. Right. Which is another version of what is it that I need. 00:24:53.755 --> 00:24:56.475 Yeah. Right? It's another version of that, which is, 00:24:57.195 --> 00:24:57.835 oh, 00:24:58.475 --> 00:25:02.395 if I'm gonna be proud of myself in this moment, how do I wanna behave? 00:25:02.955 --> 00:25:06.870 But so so none of these things are gonna work absolutely 00:25:07.350 --> 00:25:24.955 except for if you have the access to be able to open your heart. That one's like a very quick absolute thing. So what happens for other folks is they're like, I wanna behave this way, but then they get in there and they're in that nervous system fight or flight or freeze because, oh my gosh, I'm, you know, like this it's like this deep trauma 00:25:25.435 --> 00:25:27.515 of it. And so there's another 00:25:27.675 --> 00:25:30.475 way of working with it, which is just exposure. 00:25:30.795 --> 00:25:33.755 So you see this happen a lot when people do our work. 00:25:34.270 --> 00:25:36.910 All of our courses, there's a lot of being seen. 00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:41.870 And as they are seen, they become more and more comfortable with themselves. 00:25:42.270 --> 00:25:44.590 Mhmm. I mean, it's this amazing thing. So, 00:25:45.550 --> 00:25:53.925 you know, how many people have we seen go through the connection course and they get deeply seen by five different people over the series of the course, and then they're 00:25:54.245 --> 00:26:01.285 they're just, like, so much more comfortable in who they are. Mhmm. And so it's the same thing that you see in, like, 12 step programs or 00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:03.620 group therapy 00:26:03.860 --> 00:26:08.980 where the more I speak about the thing and I'm seeing in it, the less I care 00:26:09.540 --> 00:26:22.495 what people think. You know? So I remember there was a time when I was in my twenties and I'm like, my dad's alcoholic, and everybody's gonna judge me. Now I'm like, yeah, my dad's an alcoholic. I would say it on, like, public everywhere. It doesn't like, yeah, my dad was an alcoholic. 00:26:22.975 --> 00:26:29.295 I don't see that at because I have no shame around it anymore. Yeah. And the places that I am 00:26:29.820 --> 00:26:34.220 I'm not where I'm scared to be seen are the places where I have the shame, 00:26:34.860 --> 00:26:38.140 and which gives tells me this is the place where I have the freedom. 00:26:38.540 --> 00:26:43.820 And shame one of the best ways to to just address the shame is to 00:26:44.765 --> 00:26:54.605 share it with people and notice, oh, they're not ashamed. They don't think there's something broken with me or to notice, wow, we all have that. Like, every like, everybody has 00:26:54.925 --> 00:26:59.600 a parent not everybody. Most people have a parent that was addicted to something somehow emotion, 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:02.720 television, something like most people have 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.840 shame. Most people have fear. Most people like, these are all human experiences. 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.080 Yeah. So it's interesting. It's like both of the ways out are either recognizing 00:27:12.355 --> 00:27:25.075 I'm not alone in thinking this or I was alone in thinking this. Like, this was only a thought in my own head, like, I'm the only one I invented this. Exactly. It's it's kind of funny how that's like, both of those seem to be a way out. Both. Yeah. And and and exposure. 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:27.640 Just, 00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:29.720 oh, I am going to 00:27:30.040 --> 00:27:42.135 little ways be seen every day. Yeah. And the thing that that does is that most of the people who who feel are scared of being seen but wanna be seen, another experience that they have a lot of is that they're lonely. 00:27:42.775 --> 00:27:48.455 And so this stops the loneliness. So, like, recently, I was talking to my daughter, and 00:27:48.935 --> 00:27:55.560 she was just noticing, like, she's got friends in college and everything like that, and she's she's like, oh, I'm starting to feel lonely. 00:27:56.040 --> 00:27:59.640 And my question to her was like, what are the ways that you're not being yourself? 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:05.080 What are the ways that you're not showing up asking for what you want, saying what's wrong, having the hard conversations? 00:28:06.235 --> 00:28:13.675 Because if you aren't doing that, you're not actually with anybody. You're all you're by yourself in this reality. 00:28:14.555 --> 00:28:16.155 And so, literally, 00:28:16.475 --> 00:28:19.995 I think it was, like, three days later because, you know, Esme is amazing. She 00:28:20.235 --> 00:28:21.355 she called me up, 00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:23.490 and she was like, 00:28:23.970 --> 00:28:28.450 I've had three hard conversations in two days. I feel so much better. 00:28:28.850 --> 00:28:30.290 I've, like, had these 00:28:30.530 --> 00:28:40.615 like, I just looked everywhere that I wasn't saying the thing or being the person that I wanted to be, and I just did it. And I feel so much better. And it's and it happens just like that. It's amazing 00:28:40.775 --> 00:28:42.935 how quickly loneliness can be cured 00:28:43.255 --> 00:28:52.310 if you actually show up in a way that you're proud of saying the things that are important to you. Yeah. And I also wanna talk about another aspect of the shame in this pattern, which is often people 00:28:53.030 --> 00:29:04.630 will show up with, I I really want to be seen. I should be seen. I should be doing a thing. I should go have the hard conversations. And so that exact set of behaviors you just described Yes. Could be somebody 00:29:04.815 --> 00:29:13.135 something that somebody tries to force themselves into or beat themselves up into as a part of this pattern. What would you say to to that? To somebody who's like, I 00:29:13.215 --> 00:29:17.135 should really show up more. I should really be seen. I should really be vulnerable. 00:29:17.615 --> 00:29:19.855 What I would say is I would point back to 00:29:20.300 --> 00:29:23.660 the beginning, which is what do you need to take care of yourself? 00:29:24.140 --> 00:29:29.340 What what do you need to open to your heart or to yourself and to other people? Because that framing 00:29:29.340 --> 00:29:32.780 prevents it from being, I should do this. I should do that. I should do this other thing. 00:29:33.445 --> 00:29:37.365 Because there's a, like, a self care, there's a love, there's an expansion 00:29:37.845 --> 00:29:47.285 in that feeling. There's an opening up to yourself and to the other person. Yeah. And so that can't coexist with you should do this. What's wrong with you? Yeah. 00:29:47.285 --> 00:29:50.410 Your question is a great pointer because it is 00:29:51.210 --> 00:29:52.330 emotionally 00:29:52.650 --> 00:29:53.770 going from 00:29:56.010 --> 00:29:58.090 what what what what what to, 00:29:58.970 --> 00:30:01.690 oh, I can actually just love this moment, 00:30:02.010 --> 00:30:03.050 you, myself. 00:30:03.535 --> 00:30:08.575 And that's really what's changing on the emotional level is you're going from a contraction 00:30:08.815 --> 00:30:10.015 to an openness, 00:30:10.015 --> 00:30:23.080 whether it's through wonder or whether it's through love or whether it's through admitting and owning your needs or what would I be proud of. They're all these things are emotionally opening you up to the experience of what's going on. 00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:29.000 Mhmm. And when you are closed down and contracted emotionally, you're not actually experiencing reality. 00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:41.115 Yeah. You're experiencing your thought of what reality is. What about also the need for safety? If if my if I see myself as bad or wrong for hiding, for all the hiding I've done in my life, what about 00:30:41.355 --> 00:30:46.955 acknowledging the need to feel comfort, the need to feel safe that that pattern 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.760 provided for me even while it limited me in many ways. Awesome. 00:30:51.080 --> 00:31:00.120 Yeah. I think that's a great thing to do. Yeah. Right? That's another version of loving yourself. That's another version of, like, honoring who you are. So addressing this pattern isn't about, 00:31:00.705 --> 00:31:06.225 oh, I've been doing it wrong all this time. I've been hiding, and I should be getting out there and getting seen. 00:31:06.625 --> 00:31:14.305 Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, if you beat yourself up, then you are like, we talked about this earlier in the episode. 00:31:14.865 --> 00:31:16.065 If you're beating yourself up, 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:18.500 then you are now 00:31:18.740 --> 00:31:26.660 the eye of Siren turned on yourself. Yeah. So any way in which you are, like, putting that same criticism 00:31:26.660 --> 00:31:27.860 on yourself 00:31:28.340 --> 00:31:31.940 to undo that is gonna be incredibly useful for this pattern. 00:31:32.555 --> 00:31:35.035 Right? Because that self criticism is the shame. 00:31:35.595 --> 00:31:38.315 Right? And so any way that you can 00:31:38.955 --> 00:31:40.875 really look at that shame, 00:31:41.115 --> 00:31:50.720 and there's lots of ways to look at the shame and and start to unwind it. One is with people that we talked about. But another way to really look at that shame and unwind the shame 00:31:51.360 --> 00:31:52.560 is to just 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.480 ask yourself, would you 00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.720 criticize somebody else for it? 00:31:57.600 --> 00:32:09.655 And that for some people, that's gonna get rid of, like, 80% of it. Oh, so somebody else was, like, scared as a kid and they learned to hide. Do you think Especially if it's somebody they care a lot about. Exactly. Yeah. Did you are they an asshole? Are they bad? 00:32:10.535 --> 00:32:11.815 Do they need to be fixed? 00:32:13.270 --> 00:32:30.395 Right? And so that's another way to just really quickly say, oh, wait. If it wasn't me, would I treat myself this way? Mhmm. Yeah. So I I wanna leave people with one, like, specific concrete thing that they can do. Yeah. Next time they show up to, say, a meeting or a tense conversation with their partner and 00:32:30.795 --> 00:32:36.395 they're freezing up, they're hiding, they recognize this pattern's alive, this podcast is ringing in their head, and 00:32:37.675 --> 00:32:46.300 that little tiny part of the limbic system that's still active Yeah. Is like, what do I do? What what's a thing? Open your heart to that person. Mhmm. 00:32:46.620 --> 00:32:47.260 So 00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:55.180 stop objectifying them. Recognize that you've already cut yourself off from them. You're judging them. You're basically saying in that moment, 00:32:56.695 --> 00:32:59.575 you're gonna attack me. You're a bad person. 00:33:00.455 --> 00:33:04.135 You only care about yourself. You can't see me, 00:33:05.175 --> 00:33:06.935 and you're totally self obsessed 00:33:06.935 --> 00:33:08.295 and focused 00:33:08.615 --> 00:33:09.175 on you. 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:15.880 That's what you're saying about the other person. So you've already, like, fully disconnected, and and you're 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.200 worried about what they're thinking about you, but you're basically thinking all those things about them. 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.040 You're like And you. And you. Yeah. You. Right? 00:33:25.475 --> 00:33:32.835 Like and that's the hard thing for people to, like, really just grok is, like, oh, if I'm scared about what you're gonna say about me, I've judged you, 00:33:33.235 --> 00:33:37.555 I have I have categorized you, I boxed you, I I've made you into 00:33:37.875 --> 00:33:38.835 an enemy 00:33:39.235 --> 00:33:46.950 Yeah. Like, which is everything you're scared that they're gonna do to you. You've already done to them. And look, they don't seem to give a shit. Yeah. Which I I 00:33:49.270 --> 00:34:12.950 and I think that's where, like, a lot of the fear when people come to a coaching session about this comes from is, oh, if I actually see how I've been treating myself and I see the way that I've been treating others, then I have to feel a fuck ton of grief. That's right. And possibly in front of these 300 people on this call. Right. Yep. But in front of myself Yeah. Especially. Exactly. Because that's what shame's job is is to 00:34:13.670 --> 00:34:14.630 is to 00:34:15.350 --> 00:34:17.350 stagnate an emotional experience. 00:34:17.430 --> 00:34:19.430 Right? And so when that shame relieves, 00:34:20.095 --> 00:34:26.095 there's gonna be grief and other emotions that need to be felt that are are gonna be scary. Yeah. 00:34:26.415 --> 00:34:38.150 Like, might find yourself on a podcast and be like, I'm Joe Hudson and I just realized that I've been pronouncing I have saron wrong this entire episode. I knew I was doing that. What is is it Sauron or Sireon? 00:34:38.150 --> 00:34:43.990 Sai I still got it wrong. Sireon. I'm gonna call it Sireon. What is Sireon. Go for it. Sireon. 00:34:43.990 --> 00:34:47.430 Yeah. Exactly. It's horrible. Everybody's gonna judge me. 00:34:48.465 --> 00:34:53.105 Everybody who judges Joe for that, please. Yeah. They're already commenting. It's already been there. 00:34:53.345 --> 00:34:54.465 It's been happening. 00:34:55.585 --> 00:34:58.385 What a pleasure. Pleasure to be with you. Yeah. You too, Joe.