Alright, dude. I just sat down with the one and only Laura Higgins,
epic coach of the creative industry. We've been working together for a little while. She's already had an epic journey from $7 a month to $300,000
a month. Boom. And today, we sat down to scheme up the next level. In order to do it, there are three big problems we needed to solve. Number one, how do we get more people attending the sales workshop she runs? Number two, how do we turn content creation from
a little bit of, like, epic content, but a bit of a grind into something that flows naturally and easily? And third, how do we grow this business by maximizing her time spent in the founder role without losing track of the business? The whole goal is we can double the membership
without burning out. If any of that relates to you, this is gonna be a great conversation. She's epic, and I cannot wait for you to meet her. I'm sitting down with the one and only
Laura Higgins, the queen of the creators.
Super pumped. We've working together for a little while now. Yeah.
You've gone from little to awesome, and we now we wanna make it even bigger. We do. Yes. Where are at, where do we wanna get? Okay. So
we're at right now. We have foundations, which is twelve week program. Yep. We have the Next Level Club, which is our
main program, kind of like your version of Black Belt. Yep. Next Level Club sits at around 200 members at the moment. I really wanna get it 500.
Awesome. The caveat for me or the little asterisk
is that I wanna get there without
burning out or doing the
crap that I don't wanna do. Because I have experienced burnout, and I don't wanna do it again. Walk me through
a workshop now. It'd be helpful for me Yep. As a refresher, but also great for this this crew. Uh, it's a paid workshop and a free webinar. Mhmm. So it's, a couple of hours. Yep. At the end, we want people to do what? Book a call. Yep. Yep.
So I'm still selling with a sales call tacky.
And,
Sean,
let's end this now. I'm out. No. Kidding. She's not sales less? What? No. Sales less just means you're they're buying, you're not selling. Yeah. I'm totally cool with that. Okay. So we we run this paid workshop. How much is it?
Uh, $29.
And that's been great for you guys in terms of volume and quality. Yep.
Perfect. $29.02
hours, book call. Yep.
Okay. And you said 400 is kind of our ceiling ish right now. Yeah. What, um,
what happens we
how much do we spend to get somebody here?
Yeah, just want to know, like, how do we get the 400 that we currently get? It relies
a lot on ad spend, more than I'd like. So
I would say
probably only 10% come through email list. Okay. So it's it's a lot Body chain? Yeah. A lot relying on ads. And definitely, Instagram does super well as So
I would say maybe it's like 60% ads,
10% email, and then
30
socials.
Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Do you think the biggest opportunity is to make the ads work better, or the biggest opportunity is in these other two?
Because our numbers are, like,
the exact opposite of that. Yes. Yeah.
So I would think I I do think an opportunity for me is to get our email list more engaged and to
and the challenge I think that we have is that our open rate is is really good. So our open rate is like 50 to 60%. Yeah, right. But then our click through rate is terrible.
So that's where I'm kind of like, is it that the topic is fatiguing?
Yep.
Or is it the the way I'm packaging up the offer isn't compelling enough? Yep.
Okay. So we've got ads,
we've got email,
and we've got organic.
I've got a I've got one icon. I need an icon for ads and organic. I've only only somebody who's good at design.
We're running the same playbook. Mhmm. Yep. But you've got
Heavy on relies. Heavy on ads. But the nice thing about ads is because it's kinda to new people, you can do the same workshop. Yes. So, like, same workshop, new people. I'm doing
new workshop, same people.
And so I've gotta work harder at the the hook and the creativity and stuff, and you can optimize a bit more, which I think Nathan will be really happy with. He he will be. Yeah. He is happy. He just is like, you need to give me more ad creative. That's his biggest hit, like A million percent. Giving more ads. Yep. Okay. And so when you think about a workshop campaign, how many
pieces are there ads wise right now? And are they reels? Are they
like, are they vids? Are they what? Yeah. So something that's working really well for us right now, we we've always been pretty good on the ads videos. Mhmm. So a lot of reels.
Organic, what's working really well is carousels for us with a ManyChat call to action. Yep.
In terms of ad creative
for tiles, we're actually just, like, putting it into Instagram
using an Instagram font Yeah. Exporting it as an image and running it as an ad. Perfect. And that's working super
well. It's very scrappy. Very scrappy. But that's working really well on paid.
So it's basically IG screenshotted. Mhmm.
That's good. Yep. And, like, kind of stuff that looks a little bit crappy Yeah. Is working better than the beautifully designed stuff. Which is hard when you're a designer. It's really hard when that's you
yep. Okay. This is helpful. I've got some thoughts. Yeah. Can we talk about the
the topics and
how much we recycle the same thing? So how many workshops
are there? Yeah. Okay. So
probably our
flagship
one that we do that gets us the best leads is called FunnelFix. That
we've run live a bunch of times. We also have put it to Evergreen now because it Could it crush it? It just crushes it it
just gets us the best quality leads, and the lead cost is
lower on that. Um,
so that's one topic. Another one that we've done is called sold on social, which is all about
how to actually get leads through your social media. Are these guys less good than those guys? Yes. Yeah. Of course, because the topic is you have to know what a funnel is. A 100%. I was like, I wanna post on Instagram and make money. A 100%. And so even though the content in sold on social is
I'm like, oh, this is exactly what we do. Yeah. You guys should steal this. It still does attract more beginners. Yeah. So
either I need to change the hook of that or just, you know, retire that one, which is fine. Or use it to sell your foundation. Sells lower ticket. Yes. Mhmm. Another one that we've just played with, and we actually did this as a free workshop just last week,
which
is really interesting, the difference in numbers. So I did a free workshop last week to sell our lower ticket program, Foundations.
It was called the Consistent Client System. Mhmm. And
we got I think we spent $2,000
on ads, got 970
people registered to that. Nice. So really, really easy to get leads into that. And it's good because it fills our email list again. Yep.
So I think if I think about the buckets of, like, what our niche really care about, if I do something about getting leads
Yep. They're just Even you big guys? Yes. Okay. Yep. Yep.
So
and then I I think that's where I've gotten I've gotten fatigued with the content myself because it's like, if I talk about leads,
they're just gonna buy. They're just gonna sign up and and do it. Yep.
If I talk about something that I wanna talk about,
it may not convert as well. What's an example of something you wanna talk about? If I wanted to do something around
leveraging AI as a creative Yep. It's not as sexy. Even though it's topical Yep. It feels like less of a I think what we need to do is take the things that you want to talk about and
so this is I want to talk about AI or I want talk about pricing or whatever, and wrap it in leads.
Cool.
I like that idea. So
that
I just drop paper on your floor and I feel awful about it, but we're on camera. Is that okay? That's fine.
Okay, I like that idea. Yeah, because there's things that I want to talk about,
and there's things that they care about, and the overlap is where the magic happens. Yep. If I talk about the,
like, the super nerdy level thing, there's a percentage of people who want that. But if I can always tie it back to accord desire
For sure. And so I feel like for you, it's, like, comes back to your genius model of, like, attract, convert, deliver. Yeah. But even within attract, convert, deliver,
like, we hardly ever run a workshop without deliver.
For for every six workshops,
four
four or five will be get leads, make make sales, money, money, money, money. Yes.
This is gonna be less popular, but it's gonna attract a high level person because who needs to know how to run a great client workshop? It's gonna be people with a high level business. For sure. But if I wanna get as many people, then I'm gonna talk marketing sales.
That makes sense. And interestingly, I haven't done any workshops on sales.
And so I'm like, that'd be a really easy one, and I would enjoy talking about sales because creatives hate selling.
So that could be kind of fun to do something. You could call it cringeless.
Cringeless. Okay. Yeah. I like that.
Tony's nodding at that. Okay.
So let's
I think the big idea is they
want money, and they want,
they think leads is the thing. We've
got to pick the topics which relate to not just the one that's going get the most people, because you want to make the most sales. For sure. Yeah, the forever problem is the thing that's going to go viral
isn't the same thing that's going make me sales. For sure. And that's why I think FunnelFix is so good because it's narrow enough that people are like, oh, I don't have that. Completely. But it still maps to leads and clients, which they desperately want. Yeah. Okay. So what I would I would look at my Genius model and go, okay, what are the things that I currently do that, uh, with our clients that map to leads and
sales?
We can test them. I think
we've got this running evergreen right now. Yep. I love that. I would happily do it live. Maybe it's every three months. Yeah. Cool.
So we can just, you know, tap the email guys on the shoulder and say this thing's here.
Cool. With, would you add in, like, a, hey. I've made this cool new thing to Okay. This is great. So we're running SalesLess
in a couple weeks? Yes. And I've run SalesLess as a workshop in July.
Yep. And I'm doing it for two reasons. One, it's a hot topic, I'm super pumped about it. But also, I'm going to Japan. I'm gonna be on holidays, and I don't wanna, like, invent a workshop.
I'd rather run a thing, but also I don't wanna feel like I'm phoning it in. Yep.
That's the balance. Right? I wanna I wanna bludge, but I don't want to feel like I'm bludging. Yeah.
And so
if you think about a spectrum between
and you're
gonna learn a a cool new thing,
and
we're gonna do the thing.
Yep.
So sales list
two is gonna be, hey. We're making we're signing a new $30,000 client every sixteen hours without talking to anyone, and it's kind of awesome.
Uh,
and in these two hours, I'm gonna help you sign, like, install the whole system so you can do it, uh, so you can sign your first dude without a sales call.
And I'm thinking about I've got a YouTube video about sales list. I'm thinking about on the thank you page after they buy just going, okay. To save us both some time, watch this video.
Cool. Now you don't need to know anything else. That means when we come, we can just roll up a sleeves and do the thing. Yep. And so it's the sexy positioning is we're gonna do the thing.
Yeah. Same concept, same framework. You're just gonna actually Yeah. So I'll instead of teaching for Tony's always yelling at me because it's a two hour workshop. A It's ninety minute workshop that actually goes for three hours because it takes me, like, forty minutes to get to the the do. Yep.
Because I'm like, yeah. But they need to know the but if they can pre learn the stuff Yeah. And then I can just position it as
mostly do. Yeah. Which I think is fun.
I really like that. So I'd be looking at if I've got FunnelFix,
either there's a new upgraded thing or you've been running it and you've learned some new tricks, or I'm gonna smash through the theory fast and then we're gonna do the stuff. Cool.
I think that works. Yes.
I like that.
It's really important for me
that you are talking about stuff you actually care about. Mhmm.
Because the stuff that bangs, whether it's in an ad or it's organic or it's on email or frankly, it's a workshop, is
you've got an idea that you're energised about and something to say about it. Yes. And if we just do the recycled stuff, the numbers look good and the spreadsheet dudes love it, but your soul dies inside.
Yeah. If we go, um,
I've been thinking a lot lately about bricks and windows.
Sean and I were wrapping news last week, and the night before the video,
we got
windows
and
bricks, and this intro of the video involves throwing a window a brick through a window. So the window is like, what's the current common advice or common practice that the whole industry says? Because everyone's kinda doing it the same, taking the same stuff. Mhmm. And then the brick is what's the new idea that I've got that I can throw through this and break their frame? So if we go
if we were to invent a workshop for a second Yeah. Because that'd be fun.
Are we talking
leads or are we talking sales?
Let's just pick one. I reckon let's do leads. Okay. Yeah. Alright. So let's go
old ways. Mhmm.
And
what you do that's different? Yep. What is everybody in the industry
either doing or all their gurus,
the non laurels, telling them to do? So what's the advice or the Yeah. I think big advice that people get is, oh, I just have to post on social media, or I have to have a massive audience on socials. Mhmm.
I
think the
other piece around generating leads is
I think a lot of the beliefs is that it's
I just don't have time for this. It's gonna take ages. Yep. Particularly around a funnel, people think, oh, it's gonna be really techy and really bro y.
So it's gonna feel really like,
like,
it's gonna be red flashing
buttons and things like that. So I think people having that feeling of, ah, I I don't love that vibe. Yeah. In your market, it feels like sales is scammy and marketing is spammy.
Yes.
And so the lovely thing about your brand,
and it's not just marketing, is, like, that's totally not you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So
I gotta post a lot on social.
I need a big audience to make it work. It's super bro y. Yeah. I
think I think the other thing is too, it's it's
that What do people tell them to do? Like, what's the common advice?
Especially the stuff that when you see it, you're like, fuck, you don't have to do that. Yeah. The cold cold DM ing, pitching,
outreach.
I think the idea that you've gotta be, like, mass market
for everybody
I'm trying to think of what are the other That's right. Yeah. Let's just start. Cool. And so
let's go. That's that's the bad old way that everyone says we have to do. We haven't used a color yet, Laura, so we need to bang a little bit. There we go.
We've been shooting in black and white this whole time. So
what do you think the
if you're my coach and I'm a creative, I'm like, okay. But
I'm trying to post all the time and it's just not working. Like, no. No. No. No.
What do you believe or what what should I do that's different to that? Yeah. You have to get really narrow and not be mass market. Yeah. So, like, repelling the wrong people, attracting the right people.
My my niche are just terrified of
rejection and repelling.
And so getting them comfortable with, okay. We've actually gotta be okay with the wrong people
saying, no. You're not the right fit for me. Or us saying, you're not the right fit for me. Yeah. That's interesting. So they're scared of reject and repel? Yeah.
But, like, the irony is you can't actually attract someone if you're not prepared to repel them. So it's Yep.
The other piece is, like,
being a bit more direct in their
in their communication.
So a lot of them are it's very soft and flowery and
in trying to not be sales y, they kinda just become diluted and vanilla. Yeah. And so
my way of doing it is, hey, we can be direct and we can be clear,
and it still be a really lovely experience, and it's just an invitation for someone. Rather than it feeling like a push or an ask, it's actually like Yeah.
No, it's an invitation. If you're on a wait list for,
like, a really amazing pair of shoes that you want Dude, when it comes through, you're stoked. Yeah, when they're Yes. Hey, it's ready. Would you like would you like access to this? You're like, heck yes. I'd love that. So I just put my name down on the cool and vintage Land Rover.
They're like, okay. We've got two choices.
Uh, you can get a series Land Rover. The wait time is eighteen months. I'm like, oh, that's a long time. She goes, oh, get a Defender. I'm like, oh, yeah. That's three years. I'm like, oh,
I'm gonna have the quick one.
That's that's great. But when I get my when my number comes up, I'm gonna be so freaking stoked. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So direct an invite. I think that's cool. Yeah. And I think that's,
like, the opposite of they're worried they're gonna be bro y, so they play it super safe, and you're like, you can be
super clear and super
I don't know what
It's not cringe to It's not. To just be direct. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So everyone's telling them to be to do stuff that they cringe at. Yeah. And you're saying, don't be cringe. Be clear.
Love. Yeah. That's good.
Cool. Yep.
Need a big audience?
No.
No. And I think the big thing is
recognizing the points where
we could just increase the conversion. So you don't need a massive audience. You just need to optimize what you've got. Yeah. And most people are just not doing that. Yeah.
If you are teaching people how to sell with sales calls, like, the easiest thing they can do to grow their business is to learn actually how to sell, because learning conversion rate takes an hour, and it's free. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to spend more on ads. Yes.
Okay. A 100%.
So when I'm thinking about a workshop, I'm like, what's the topic? And sometimes it comes from this list, and sometimes these are the points within the content. Yep. But I think the way you get cut through and one of the ways you get more people to register for your workshop is you're the person who's like,
you've got this problem and you want this result. Right? Yep. Okay. And you're doing these things because that's what everyone tells you to do. Right? Yep. Well, actually, these are the reasons why it's not working. Yeah. And so we wanna, like,
break the
wanna say that everything that they're telling you to do is the reason you're stuck? Yes.
Just like coaches,
I'm gonna go and scale my business, and they do all the stuff to grow and scale their business, and they got into the thing for freedom, but now they've got less freedom because they've done all the stuff. Yep. So I think we just wanna, like, use everyone else's bad advice
against them Yeah. And be able to go, here's a here's a new way. And I think, like, cringe and clear feels like a a nice distinction to you guys.
And I think
I think that mass
and
I don't know if you guys aspire to be boutique or or Yeah. Luxe,
but that feels like a
nice thing for you guys. So when it comes to
workshop topic, I reckon, a, we can reuse the same topic and find a new spin on it, which is we've got these new things or I've got this great new case study, or we can do here's what's new. Um, we're gonna do it instead of learn about it.
And so that might be an easy way to refresh
Yeah. Funnel Fix or one of the other ones you've done. Uh-huh.
For Sold On Social, I'd be like, what's the
higher level version of that? And it might be that Hot On Social is just for your little guys,
but they all need a
like, they're all thinking about posting on social and they wish they got clients, and they don't.
And so
is there a problem
that the higher level people who are qualified for Next Level Club encounter with socials that maybe the little guys don't. Is that does anything jump on? I think the bigger guys
already know
they they are very clear on what problem
their their client has.
They're probably more thinking about how can I automate part of this, how can I use a ManyChat?
Completely. So it's just more about how can I do this consistently
and not kill my soul in the process? They're
thinking about
AI probably, they might be thinking about systems,
they might be thinking about team,
and they might be thinking about platforms.
Yeah.
They're also probably thinking about,
um, paid strategy in this Yeah, as a 100. Yeah. Which is why this worked better for those guys. For sure.
And so I'd be, uh, in my workshop copy, I would be really clear that if you
don't have a clear target market or you don't know what you stand for, this isn't the workshop for you. We're going to do advanced stuff. Cool.
And that way, the dudes who actually wanna be like, okay, this isn't gonna be like those other beginner stuff.
And and, too, like, the name sold on social is
is probably too basic or or beginner, so it needs to have a more of a
high level problem. Like, an example in one of our intenses,
I did
kind of just showed them a show and tell session of like, hey, this is what we're running in our
marketing right now. Yeah. And they loved that because it was like, hey, we do this slow funnel, and we do this thing, and then, like, I could show them the numbers. So I feel like Can I just say that, like, the easiest way for you to, like, okay?
I feel like, that was an interesting five minutes.
Can I just tell you what I fucking do? Yes. Because you just nailed it.
Here's the problem that you and I have got. We've got to make a metric shit ton of content for our marketing. Mhmm. And then for our funnels,
sales,
we've got to make more content.
And then you've got this, like, amazing group of people in the club. Yeah. Your clients.
Um,
I just wrote content. That should've said sales. So there's marketing content, sales content, and then we've got client content.
Anything that your clients froth on is
a fucking workshop. Yes.
Okay.
And it's as simple as that. Yep. So
our best everything,
whether it's workshop content or social content or emails, is just like, we did this cool thing.
Let me show you what we did. Yep. And so it goes, we ran this workshop for for Black Dot.
Actually, one step earlier.
80% of the time, it's like, we just did this cool thing
Then we teach it to Black Belt. Black Belt loves it, and I want to get more people just like that. Then take that, and it becomes the mini version for YouTube and a public workshop and all the reels. It's the same stuff. So I look at my Next Level Club as source material?
Yes.
Sometimes we'll even do the public version first
because I'm always better tootagtaki, Josh McCurry calls me. So I'm always better the second time. I wanna make sure the clients get the good version, so I'm like, test it out on them. This is also why I like to repeat the workshops because I feel like I if I only do it once, I'm like, oh, that was that I didn't I I missed some of my Yeah, dude. But if you go
if you go, what's the entry point for my content? And I like,
if we go
something happens in the Next Level Club
that they frothed on. Okay.
If they loved it, everyone else will love it. And so for us it goes, um, do something for Next Level Club, then
in the same week that we're creating that for our clients,
uh, we'll
as close as we can. This doesn't always fit on the timeline, but we'll design and promote our public workshop.
Cool. Doesn't have to be same week, but I when like a week's got a job and at the end the week I can look back and go, oh, look, we made this set of assets for the theme. I feel productive. Yeah. I can look, oh, look, you see? I did stuff.
Um,
then YouTube video about it. Uh-huh.
And to promote the workshop, guess what else we need? Well, need some emails.
And some
reels and some carousels.
So you don't have to make more stuff. We just have to, like if we find something juicy for those guys, that's your content strategy in a heartbeat. I think that's like Yeah.
And I know you get asked this question a lot.
How do your
clients feel about public
people being able to pay $29
to a $100 for the workshop?
They're fine with it. Yeah. Yeah.
Almost
every fear we've got about what will the clients think is in our head. Yeah.
There's
a couple of things we do that
make it extra okay. Mhmm. So, um,
if you're watching this, I'm about to tell you what we
don't do in our public stuff that we do for our clients. Don't hate me, but it's true. Um,
so
for us, Next Level Club is is Black Belt. Right? Yeah. Uh, well, what do we do in Black Belt? We basically go from,
you know, problem or idea to, like, done, finished thing.
And so we get it, like, from, like, step one to step 10, finished.
When we build GPTs,
we build we.
Tony Beige builds these epic GPTs, right? And they're incredible. And then when we do the public version,
I don't want to say we dumb it down because it's the same core content and often the same worksheets,
but the promise is different. Because clients have got context that the new people don't,
we either need to reduce the scope of the workshop,
and so instead of going from step one to step 10, we might go to step four.
Sweet. And that's okay. And when Tony builds a great GPT, then she builds the
Light version.
Yeah. I
was gonna say this slightly retarded little brother version, but the light version is exactly what we should say. The light version is the politically correct one. Yeah. Thank you, Ricky, being honest.
Yeah, the light version. Yep. And so if Black Belts get the micromagnet maker, which is like, what's the topic? Here's some micromagnets. Oh, I'd like to do that one please. Okay, let's build it together.
Here's your fully baked out micromagnet and the post, that's the full version. The light version is the micromagnet suggestomatic,
which suggests the topic and then creates the hand raiser, but they still don't have the micromagnet. Great. Yep. Makes sense. So each of these is just like levels of depth. Yep.
Um, so I wanna get off workshops in a minute because No. This is this is super helpful. This is super helpful. But
I also wanna talk about the
I I just wanna talk about all this stuff. Um, what are two things recently you've done with Next Level Club that they absolutely frost on that was fun for you and great for them?
So there's this, like, marketing show and tell thing? Yes. We did a marketing show and tell. That that went really well. I did a personal brand session that they loved. Mhmm.
We did a Claude kind of basics
Yep. Setup Yep. Situation,
which which went great as well. Yep.
So
I think we've got a Workhorse FunnelFix that we know that works. I would roll that out to my email list every three months live. Yep. And if you've another one,
like, I think it would
I like Fresh, but I think, like, once every three months, let's do let's bring one back. Yep. You wouldn't rename FunnelFix so that No. I don't think you need to. Yeah. Because that was my concern. If it runs Evergreen, I just didn't want people to purchase Correct. It twice. Yeah. And then Yeah. A, it's a great name, and b, you don't want anyone to go, hey. I already got this under a different wrapper. Yeah. I think I keep I keep it the same. Cool.
Unless you're doing the do version, in which case it might be the, like, the funnel fix,
I would say, sweatshop. But you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Hands on build it sesh? Yes. Cool.
Um, but I think, like, you don't have to, like, sit there going, what do we talk about? I would just go, like, what are we already doing, and how do we talk about that? Yep. And, honestly, I think that'd be that could be quite frank. I think where I've gotten in my head with that is, like, the personal brand one, for example. I'm like,
because the objective of the workshop is to,
a, to to help people, but also, b, to get leads Yeah. The personal brand thing is not a quick win. And so do you have a thought on whether the workshop needs to have
there is a quick win attached to it because we do an exercise in it. Yep. But do you have a thought on whether, like
because brand feels long game to me, not as, like
So do you want clients who think long game, or do you want clients who want quick wins and bounds?
Long game. Yeah. So just framing that. Yep. Yep. And if you can attach
it's like, you know, when we have an offer doc and we have phase one? Yeah. And if phase one is,
you know, useful quick win and then it gets better and better, I think I would cash in those terms. Cool. So go I go within brand and, uh, what's the quick win?
So you'll we'll have this done, and you'll have the road map to
that. Great. I think that's cool. Cool. You already crushing carousels?
Carousels are good. Carousels are so fun. They're really fun. Email.
Okay.
Well, we don't have to talk about email because No. We do, but we're gonna do it really fast. I'm just looking at props. What do you need?
Sean, can you pass me that drink, Ken?
Alright.
Okay. Uh, if you think carousel, email, reel, which one's your favorite one to make right now?
Carousels. Okay. So that's Carousel.
Yep.
If you've got a carousel,
you've already got a reel.
Yes.
Because it's the same issue. The same thing. Okay. If you've got a carousel and you've got a reel, you've also got an email.
Mhmm.
As an experiment, I took
three or four of my emails and went down the beach and shot them as reels,
and an email is
I I write long emails.
Ninety seconds,
which is perfect for a reel. Yep.
So I don't think you need to create new stuff. I go like, I'm gonna make that because that's creative and fun. Yep. And then I'm gonna use my
my team or AI
or you if you feel inspired
to to go, great. What's the key parts of that, and how do I remix remix into the other two?
Sweet.
Um,
what matters to me is,
um, I had an idea, and I've expressed it.
And if it comes out in an email or a I can't remember which one was which. An email or carousel,
it's still you and your stuff? Yes. You don't want somebody else to write the stuff, and and you go, well, I didn't mean that. But if it came from here, came from source, I'm totally cool with that. Yeah. Okay. Cool. And I guess, like, it that probably comes down to a system thing too of if
because we run we have a podcast Yep. Taking transcripts from that. Yep.
And and we do have a bit of a process on how to turn those into carousels. I just need to follow that through to make
that into an email, into it real.
Well, somebody needs to. Yes.
It's probably not you. It's probably not me. Yeah. Yeah. You've got a new content person? Mhmm. Sam? Sam. Okay. Yep. That feels like a great project for Sam. Yes. You're gonna need to be involved because you need to be stoked with the output. Otherwise, you're gonna see stuff and go, oh, I've freaking hated that. Feels
I feel like sometimes AI puts this little
gauzy vanilla thing on top of something that you put in that was potent and really good, and then it, like So it just has to come back to the
not deviate too much from what you've actually said to it. Yeah. And so
as you build the
the Chord Skill or the GPT or the whatever the hell Yep.
It's like, here's my source material.
Find me the dangerous ideas in here.
Yep.
Did
it find the same dangerous ideas as you? Okay. Well, I saw these three, and you've missed them. What do we need to do? Okay. Great. Now for each of those dangerous ideas,
make me a thing. Cool.
That's that's a a prompt skill.
I've been working on a thing. I'll show you later. Taki got vibe coding.
This is dangerous.
I think just, like, lean into the Yes. The part where, like, not only do I make something epic, but it's energizing for me.
Copy is stored energy. Yeah. Like, a great a great email comes from, like, you're in the mood and you got this idea and bam.
And a great carousel's the same or a great video's the same. Let's create in the one that allows you to bottle that magic, and then
let's have somebody else help turn into the other stuff so you're not, like,
remixing all the things. Yeah. Like that. Is that cool? So helpful. So here's the big idea. You've got a lot of content that you're supposed to make, and the truth is that if you're making something that's great for your clients
and you want your marketing to attract more clients just like that, then take the thing you've already made for your clients and share it with your audience. The product
is the marketing. You don't have to make as much as you've been thinking. Tallulah wants to do an amazing job of creating great content
in various modes, emails and carousels and reels. And they're all super great, they're all super important.
But the mistake we make is we recreate,
like, we make something here, and then we're like, oh, blank page, and we've gotta make a reel. And then we oh, new blank page, we've gotta make an email.
If there's one,
one format that you're great at that gives you joy, that you get to express everything that's in you and do it well,
I don't have a problem with then, instead of making something brand new, just remixing it into the others. Sometimes it loses a little bit of the potency, but that's fixable. Um, it's either a trainable skill or you just, like, get a little bit obsessed and it gives you something that's okay, and then you get to go, well, that's okay.
How do I make this something I'm super proud of? So the big premise was getting
busting through the 400 people
Yeah. Point.
Yeah. And that was just Yeah. Is it about being able to hold 400 people, or is it about
right now
when you think 500, you think that?
I think with the 500, it's probably been
not so much about hold holding people. I feel like I've gotten better at not feeling
so, like, responsible for everyone's
results. Yeah. Responsibility is not for them. Yes. Exactly.
I
think it's figuring out
I feel like it's figuring out what
I don't wanna scale to that at the expense of
my self and my my health and all of those things. And you had one of those last year, and you And it was terrible. Yeah. It was awful. It's terrible. And you're
coming out the other side or recently come out the other side
you know when you get sick
and you start to feel a little bit better so you go back to work maybe a day too early? Yes. And then it lingers? Uh-huh. And you probably should have just had an extra day in bed? Yep. Yeah. I wanna make sure you don't do that. Or you feel the one day where you're like, I've really I've got so much energy for this. Amazing. Let's do it. And then you're thinking about your top level energy day versus your, like, lowest common denominator.
Okay. So there's a bunch of places we could go with this, and I wanna make sure it's useful. I'm give you, like, three where it might lies, and I want you to pick one or go, no. It's actually that. Cool. Okay? So do you think it's, um, spending too much time doing stuff that doesn't light me up and not enough time doing what does?
Option one. Is it my calendar's not full of those things, but my head is full and I'm thinking about them all the time, the people or the team? Or is it,
we've got an amazing team,
but, like, the vision and the leadership and the holding of it is still on you and there's nobody who holds it like Tony holds it for us? Or is it something else? Oh, okay.
I feel like
probably last year, it was
me and Nathan,
and, like, Nathan's my husband and business partner for any I'm familiar. Watching know you know, but I'm just telling these people. So,
yeah, I feel like we we were both kind of
in the spot of
I've just written Nathan. That's very formal. Nathan.
Naif.
But but the two of us were both kind of doing carrying a lot. Mhmm. And he has just said to me, please kindly go away from all of that and just be in the creative space. Mhmm. So probably similar to your dynamic with Tony, where it's like, actually, when you're I won't speak for you. When I get when I get into the weeds,
it makes it a little bit worse sometimes because I come in with, like I'm exactly like that, but it doesn't make it a little bit worse. Come in and I'm like, what's going on? This thing's happened and this you know, and so And they're like, oh, he dealt with that. Yes. Stop it. Here's the context you don't have and here's what I've already done. I'm like, oh, shut up now. Totally. Totally. So I feel like for me, it's stepping into that founder role as opposed to the CEO role, which which Nate has. Yep. And so,
yeah, I think
but I think So in order for you to do that, what? Yeah. I I think that's where it is. It's like,
but at the same time,
I am a bit of a control freak, so I do wanna have visibility on the things that matter to me so that I'm also a control freak. Things don't drift into somewhere weird
Yeah. Or somewhere that I'm like,
what the heck is going on? Like, the other day, went on to a coaching call
that I'm not normally on, and
the music that was playing, I was like, what the heck is this music? This is this is not what this is not our vibe. This is not our brand. Yeah. Like Crush metal? Yeah. Yes. Or like,
I don't know what it was. It was like Cardi B or something like that. And I was like, this is not this is not our people. So just thinking
about, okay, because it's my name and because it's Yep. A personal brand, I don't want it to drift from Completely. The identity that Yep.
It's Yeah. I've got really
it's not documented anywhere,
But when I see it, I'm like, that's off, and I can go, it's because of that. But it's not like
yeah. It could be a music decision or it's a venue decision or a the quality of the paper decision, like, just nerdy stuff that does not matter but matters a lot to me, and so we're gonna do it that way. Yeah.
And I think that the challenge for me as the team gets bigger is
Yeah. Is if I feel less proximity to the team,
I
I don't wanna be responsible for managing the team, but I wanna have the right amount of proximity so that I still feel like they've got connection with me Yep. And they can stay connected with this is where we're going, this is why it matters.
Yes. And I wanna be able to distil down those little micro decisions that
I make
that have come from years of Yeah. You've got data or taste or all the things.
Okay. So
there's ways to do this. Um, at one end of the spectrum is,
yeah, I'm just gonna make stuff, and that's somebody else, and I don't care, and I'm not gonna look, and it doesn't matter. Mhmm.
We both have people who are really good at that, and it works for them.
I can't do that Yeah. Because there's things I I irrationally care about that matter a lot to me, and I think you're probably the same. Mhmm. If
Martell was here, he'd say 10 eighty tenth,
But let's apply it to the music strum. Yeah. Oh, sorry. That's this is made up, not music, but, like, the music strum on this thing. Okay. Well, up front, you can go,
these these are the playlists. Playlists. Or you can, um, you know, when you're chatting with AI, it's like, hey, before you go off and make this thing that I don't even want, ask me a bunch of questions so you understand.
Uh, I think
if there's
sometimes we do this upfront, there's a new project or we're gonna hand something off for the first time, we think about as many other things as we can, and we go like, here's how I want it. And it could be a Zoom call that's recorded or it could be a Loom that you shoot or something you write, but, like, going upfront, here's what I want.
It's also okay to see something and then
say something about it. Yep. It means it's been
and does the business really end if once they play the Cardi B song instead of the
Mel B song?
Thanks, Mel B.
Yeah. Totally. K. But if you see it, then we wanna go, okay. I noticed a thing. I didn't love it. Can we fix this, please? Yes. We used to have a ops guy called Steve,
and it used to bug me
that he was, like, super involved backstage but never attended any of the events that we ran on Zoom. Like, three times a year, much lower. He just didn't come. I was like, oh, it feels like Steve doesn't really care.
Yep. Well, I'd never said that to Steve. I just assumed that, well, of course, get it. This is, the best thing that we do. Everyone should wanna be there.
They didn't know. So I met someone else and the
next event, a couple of months later,
did the thing and she goes, did know Steve was there?' I'm like, 'Yeah, I did. It was awesome.' She goes, 'Yeah, you're welcome.' I'm like, 'Great.'
But that's because
I noticed it and then was able to, like, tell somebody.
Um, I think whoever your
person is Mhmm. So it could be Naith,
but also might it doesn't have to be. Yeah. Yes.
You just need full permission to be able to say, I saw a thing. I didn't love it. It feels weird to even bring it up, but it matters to me. Yes. Can you
this? Sort that. Yep. Yeah. And sometimes they'll say, oh, we've changed this because of reason. You're like, that actually makes way more sense. And other times, like, yeah. I'm it. Cool.
So that's Yeah. I like that. 10% taste. Let them run at 80% of the time. And then
just like you would with a Carousel or a reel, it's like, oh, that's okay, but I reckon let's
salpe it like that. Also, think when you're a creative
You're hypersensitive
to that stuff. Totally. And I actually really am energized by being involved in the starting. Yes. And so if if the starting gets taken away from me, I'm like Dude. I'm not I'm not on board with the idea because I'm I wasn't Yeah. I wasn't there when it happened. Yeah. And I wanna be in it. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Gotta be there in the starting. Yes. And then you should 1000% not be there in the middling For sure. Because you'll fuck it up for everybody. It's true.
Yes. But if you're just involved in the starting and you don't get involved
at the landing of the plane, then it's not gonna be great too, or it'll be okay. Yeah. And
there's
I think there's a thing in people who like to make things where we need to see
like, the start is fun.
Some people love the middle, some people don't. But you need to, like, see the thing shipped in the world.
Yes. And if you're just involved at the start and then you ignore it, like, I need to see the physic the the landed plane.
And so That makes sense.
Because otherwise, it's like we had a conversation
You almost don't get the dopamine hit of the
being done. Like, sometimes we shoot a YouTube video,
and months later, it comes out.
Well, for the world, that's fine, but for me, that's not fine.
Like, I need to, like,
a tight loop between, like, I had an idea, made a thing, it's in the world doing a job? Oh, look, we made that.
And so I think if the dopamine hit is important, then let's make sure that's engineered into your process.
Yeah. That's such a good insight.
I really like that.
And it sounds like for you too,
you've just learned to be unapologetic about this is what I want. Yeah. I'm quite selfish
in a In a good way. Well, I don't know if it's in a good way. In a way that works for me. Yeah.
You know, I think about CEO.
I I
CWO,
chief wanting officer. Mhmm. Like, there's things that I want because I want them, and that's okay.
Yeah. Uh,
I think, like, the next level version of you is that.
Yeah.
Clearer about what you want and what you don't. And sometimes you discover it in conversation or by doing it, it's not that, and we play hotter or colder.
Yeah. I like that. So how do you do the balance between these two things? Because you said earlier, you can just be in makeup, but if if you don't do any of this
Yeah. Is that what you're saying? If you don't have any of that, you you feel a bit disconnected?
Or or how do you stay visible on the things that matter? Guess is me. Yeah. Okay. How do you stay visible on the things that matter?
Spectrum?
Uh, one of is you completely ignore it and you hope for the very best. Mhmm. Probably
not ideal. Yep. One is you,
Hey, what's happening with that thing?
And that's not great too. And you annoy people. Because you've got like an open loop that won't let you go.
And so we like,
what do you
what do you need to know or want to know? Mhmm.
Um,
how often?
In what format?
This is really embarrassing to admit, but it's true, especially talking to boardroomers.
So
we'll
we do just under $2,000,000 a month. It's super fantastic.
Uh, the business is growing. Our business grows.
Every single big business in Bordrem knows their their founder knows their numbers. I don't know my fucking numbers. So I'm gonna say something that's embarrassing and then I'll fix it.
Three times a year ish,
Kieran Marie just goes, hey, look at this, and she shows me the online banking.
And there's like,
there's a lot of money in the account. I'm like, that's amazing.
Cool. And then I just get back to my work.
Now that's bad advice. I'm not saying do that.
Um, if
that was all we had, we'd make a bunch of dumb decisions. Yeah.
This person over here,
like She has knows numbers about stuff. Mhmm.
This is the conversion rate on that. This is the email rate on that. So we're running a workshop campaign. It'd be really good to know how we're doing. Yeah. Like, is it working?
And so they built this little spreadsheet y graph thing, which just goes
number of regos,
date. Mhmm.
So this is like let's say the workshop date is here
Yep. Always, and it has
well, this is
one workshop we did, and this is another workshop we did, and we just, like, compare.
Cool. And so we can so I just I don't need to log into the thing, but when we're running a workshop, I just get a screenshot of that every day, text it to me. I'm like, okay, we're behind. Okay. Gotta hustle.
I love that. It's so good. Yeah. That's a good driver too because
because we need a game. Yeah. Yes. The problem with just being up here, if it's you're all in the clouds and it's not anchored to the real world,
your your creativity doesn't have a job.
Mhmm. And so I like getting here's the boot. Here's the reality on the ground,
and then I get to respond to something. And you go back up there and make Yeah. Go back up there and make something. Cool.
Yeah. I I really like that. And I think I think part of potentially the burnout piece for me was
you mentioned that tension of, like, knocking on doors, being like, where did this thing get to? It creates a bunch of anxiety. Yes. Because you delegated stuff, then you go, did anyone do that? Part of delegated is
it's
you'll be comfortable letting go when you trust that it comes back
in the way that, like, okay, so
I'm gonna hand you this job.
Delegated
means
these things are happening, and one
of the criteria is and once a week or once a month or once a whatever the cadence is, I get
I know where it is, and I don't have to ask for it. Yeah. Because if you have to ask for it, it's in your head. And even though they own the task, you own the anxiety.
That's
so true.
Yeah. There's a little ticket in your brain of that's an open loop. And you can only hold so many tickets.
Although you could yeah. Women can hold more tickets than guys, I think, is probably true.
That that makes so much sense. Yeah. So it's not like do this job. I think one of the things that we often do is we delegate tasks, and we don't delegate outcomes. Yeah. And if we can delegate an outcome to a team member as well as the here's how we do that, and there's a cycle of, like, and it comes back to me like this. I think that's super useful.
And at some stage, there's gonna be
whether it's Naith or it's somebody else,
they get those numbers, and then you get the higher, higher level numbers Yeah. Because there's a there's a bunch of, like Oh, he's building spreadsheets that I'm like, oh my gosh. There's so many tabs.
Yeah. And I just want the Show me show me the I do wanna see the numbers because I wanna know. Yeah. I wanna see the numbers, but I don't wanna see every number. I wanna see the high level numbers. And if something doesn't make sense, we can double click in. Yes. So we're just talking about
a boardroomers' campaign right now. They're doing some stuff in The States. It's not working like it should.
Um,
and
frankly, they haven't looked at the they've, like, accepted the numbers, and they never thought to Tony, you'd be like, okay. Can we double click on that? Oh, that's a bit weird.
Turns out there's a bunch of
it's like, if you can get the high level numbers and be able to go, that's on track, that's off track, this needs work Yeah. And then we can double click down when we need to. Yeah. I think you become the
the
coach or sounding board to your
yeah. The coach to your team, not the not the driver of your team. Yeah. I really like that. And I think you're right about the because when we first joined Boardroom, this was the conversation we had around make a manager, and we decided, cool. Laura, you need to be making stuff. Nate, you need to be the the manager of the stuff. Yep. Which is great, and that works really well.
But I think I went into, like,
being a little bit oblivious and just just kind of being like, well, I'm just gonna make stuff, but I was stressed still about these other things. So that There's a really nice yeah. There's a really nice loop that happens when
you can, like, come down from your
cloud
throne
and find out what are the problems that my creativity is
could be useful for right now. I don't if it's the same for you, but, like, my brain doesn't care
what its job is as long as it's got a job. Mhmm. Yes.
And and I think if you're creative, you're quite, generally,
quite strategic.
And so if there is a problem
Yes. It can be frustrating when
your team tries to solve it, you're like,
if I had have looked at that, I would have said this is the thing. Yeah. Yeah.
But giving the format of that is important so they don't just come to you with every single problem either.
Yeah. I I really like that. Yep. I had someone the other day
message,
You
know, here's the situation. I'm like, okay. Is there a question?
Nope. Okay. Great. Oh, I didn't need to know that. Thanks for wasting three minutes of my life. You know what I mean?
So I think the secret of being up here is, like, to know when you're meant to be in the clouds and when
when it's helpful for you and everybody to be in the dirt. But if you come down here,
this is a great place to visit. Yes. But if you live there, it's miserable for you, and you make it worse for everybody else. A 100% for them.
Yeah.
Okay. That's that's So what like, that's a a general principle. But if we go, like, what does this look like for you?
What's
what's an
area where you go, okay, I think I need to change my
go from clouds to dirt and back. About what topic and with whom?
I think it'll be with with me and
Nath Yeah. And just getting the high level numbers
around,
like, around sales, around leads,
and around member success. Yep.
And probably just each week. Yeah. I reckon that's all I'd need. Yep.
Yeah. Yeah. Pre flagged. Like,
greens are good. Yep. We can celebrate. Make sure you tell Bob a high five for that. Well done. That way you're connected to team. This one's orange. Okay. If it happens a couple more weeks, let's jump in, but let's not knee jerk. And this one's red. We need to do something about it.
Yeah. I like that. Like, data and a really simple that one's broken. Look here, please. Yeah.
Yeah. I like that. And also because some things may
if if I think about because of how quickly the business has grown Yeah. There have been things that are orange
that you don't realize, oh, they've been orange for, like, three months. So that's a problem. Yeah. Orange for three months is red. Is red. Yeah. Totally. That's a rule. Yeah.
So I think that's a good
thing of, okay, if that stays orange
for another couple weeks. Yeah. Let's do something about it. We're moving that to red. Or at least look at it and decide if we're gonna do something about it or not. Alright. Yeah.
So helpful.
The team thing, I reckon you just decide how do I
be most helpful for my team, and I think they probably want your presence more than they need your access
to you. Yep.
So for us, every used to be every
month. Now it's every
thank six week cycle.
We do, like, a a team meetup on Zoom, and it's mostly for the hangs.
Um, and then I get to hang with the the coaching team in the five minutes before every Zoom that we do, and that's, like, socials and hangs.
I'm not saying that's the right format for you, but I think
you don't need to be you can be as close to the team as you wanna be, and
you're foundering and friending, not managering.
Yeah.
That's good. Like, our team, we've got eight or nine now,
and I talk to Tony,
and I talk to Mike when I'm making something.
I don't think I talk to I
don't think I talk to anyone else,
like,
Yeah. I do socially, but not because there's a job to be done.
And that's a weird that's
a weird transition to go from I'm talking to everyone and I'm And I was the like, think the hub and spoke. I was the Every decision went through me.
Yeah. That's not fun. Yeah. Because that, like
I scared myself out of client work, and now I'm managing
Zoom meetings?
No.
Not fun.
So I think the big thing here is
the goal is
scale business,
maximize pound of joy.
Yep. We like that. Yeah. We really like that. And an hour of you in your sweet spot is gonna pay for,
like,
thirty to fifty hours of other people doing the other stuff.
Um, but it can't just be found at Joy, it's got to
grow business. And so I think you and Naith in
Laura's up there in the clouds. Hey, come down. We need your take on this.
And that's just about, like, what are the cycles that, like, every six weeks, we'll go, what's the workshop for next month? These are the themes for the offers.
We've got this event coming up. I'd love to jam on this with you.
And even just doing a six week cycle within our team as opposed to just with our clients. Yeah. It's just Very helpful. So helpful. Yeah. Yeah. You can do it the week before. You can do it the week after. So just like like
friends like in a share house. You know, the cycles wanna, like, line up. That's what we want.
So how are you gonna end this video? You're welcome.
Probably.
Like friends in a share house.
Yep.
You need to keep that in. Oh, a 100% will keep that in.
I don't know how to land this plane.
Thanks for watching.
Stay for more inappropriate jokes. Dude, let's just call it there. That's done.
I don't know how to start videos or how to end them. Let's call this done. Follow
for more.
You should now have to sus Subscribe for more. Subscribe for more. Alright. So I may have ended that video prematurely.
Let's do this properly. Uh,
we just had a kind of meandering,
I mean, fun for me, hopefully So helpful. Hopefully helpful conversation,
and there's some bits there you could steal. If you want, like, a step by step how do I actually get to a million dollars a year or more so I can have these meandering conversations, there's a video called the million dollar plan, which will show you, like, step by step how to get to a million bucks a year quickly. Link's in the description below. I think it'd be super helpful. Thanks for watching. Bye.