As an example, we just had a guy the other day who makes $10,000,000 a month. We had a guy do $90,000,000 a year. These guys both joined in now to my Jeremy's inner circle program. We got a $5,000,000 month earner, we got five different guys that get a million dollar a month trophy. And those people did that between January and this April event. How many sign ups did you have, if you don't mind me asking? We had a little over.
As you make more money, you literally unlock new ways to think that you previously could not even think with. What's going on guys? So today, I'm doing a bit of a special. I'm doing a podcast with the one and only mister Jeremy Haynes. Now for those of you who don't know him, he's probably one of the most blown up sort of like business coaches, ad experts in the past twelve months.
I've personally been inside of Jeremy's Inner Circle program for the better part of four years. It's been a pivotal part of my business partner and I scaling up to where we are. And today, I'm a go and take him a bit out of his waters. We're gonna talk about a topic that he knows extremely much of, but hasn't spoken too much about, which is personal branding content.
How that plays into not only as an acquisition channel, but also how that affects, you know, personal brands once getting through paid ads. So unless I've missed anything, Jeremy. Jeremy, Jeremy over here ripping. By the way, for all the Jeremy's out there, mean, we're holding it down. You know? Like, we're some of the more successful Jeremy's I know.
I need I need sales Jeremy to pop in as well. You know, Jeremy's better be locked in, dude. We're holding it down over here.
Anything I missed in the intro that you wanna give to people? No, man. Yeah. Let's dive into it. What do you got? Awesome. Cool. Well, for those of you who don't know, you've obviously been in this space for so long, like ten plus A decade. Yeah. Sweet. So what I wanna tell you is, first things first,
what's the impact that you've seen over the years of how important it is being in terms of scaling an offer or just being a business owner in general in terms of having a brand in of itself?
I mean, it's got more and more important. If you look at, like, right now while we're sitting here filming this, what was one of the first things that all these AI platforms chose to replicate?
Content.
They chose to replicate people and make it so people can make even more content or, like, you could have AI UGC characters now instead of having real people for things. People have always been the most important.
And obviously, picking, like, specific avatars to represent offers has always made a huge difference. When you when you specifically isolate that even further to just an individual personal brand, most of them, obviously, are just people. They people have beliefs. People share those beliefs. People attract others based on those beliefs.
Their standards, like their culture in a sense attracts others that are similar to them, and then those personal brands have gotten smarter and smarter over the years and just plugged offers that are aligned to whatever types of people they manage to continue to attract. There's all kinds of people who per usual don't have a lot of charisma, don't have star power, don't have just the ability to communicate effectively, and those people typically suffer most when they attempt to be a personal brand. But if you've been a talking head your entire life, you know, and you've you've managed to learn the power of the tongue, there's never been a better time to deploy it, especially at scale with all the social media content nowadays. I I personally think it's really funny because everyone just says, you should do content, content. Right? But like, you've actually been one of the people who's been talking about, like, producing content, not in a sense of, like, it being an acquisition channel, but in terms of it being useful for paid ads. Oh, yeah. How long ago did you see that shift? You know, where you felt like, wow, people actually not as much buy like a program or whatever. They they actually buy into people. Yeah. So the, um, the second marketing job I ever had was a very well known sales trainer. He's more so into real estate nowadays. He's a he's a billionaire today. And back then, you know, decade or plus ago at this point,
he he was a content machine. There was actually a platform at the time. He became one of the number one people on platform called Meerkat. Have you ever heard of that? Uh, there was Periscope as well, which had gotten acquired by Twitter at the time, and, uh, Facebook Live was, like, also huge at this time. And this guy was just churning content. He had a platform as well for, uh, he called it his own, uh, TV network, which had all these individual shows on it. I mean, he had he had a schedule where multiple times a day on certain days and then, like, random times throughout the week, he'd sit down with people like this and and do full blown interviews, but call it, like, something specific and just pump out a fuckload of content, short form, long form. And this guy, even at that time, was one of the largest, like, personal brands in terms of core sellers and just somebody monetizing a personal brand period in terms of their their year over year cash flow. You know, still today, he holds that same title.
It's gotten more and more important over the years. Uh, but I'll tell you this, and this is the most important thing to understand.
It's impactful in your sales process for so many reasons. Number one, the illusion is that when you have a paid ad, somebody goes from an ad to the funnel and just purchases. That's that's never the case. They always look you up everywhere else. And if they don't actually click on a link everywhere else, it's very hard to track them across the Internet and see their actual attribution path. So the reality of the situation is they might have saw your ad as an example on Instagram, and before they even converted, clicked to the profile that you're advertising from, consumed an unknown amount of content, maybe even clicked the link in your bio, which took them over to YouTube, or maybe this went on their own and looked you up on YouTube, consumed more content there. Maybe they didn't even consume it in that tight of a time frame. Maybe they, like, thought about it at a later time. Maybe they brought it up to somebody, and then all of sudden, there was a word-of-mouth component to it. And then through a retargeting ad, they ended up converting and and purchasing.
We've seen it effective for,
first of all, shortening sales cycles. Whether you actually use content in a paid way, meaning you strategically inject it with some dollars behind it at certain parts of your sales process, more so just having a presence on each individual platform that's congruent to the offers you're currently advertising.
Always, 100% of the time, makes a dramatic lift
in sales closing rates, shortening sales cycles. It always has an impact. Then you take that and you layer in the fact that you can pay to distribute that content either at the front end part of a direct response advertising process, after somebody books a call or does a webinar or some specific thing. You can sequence content, meaning you can use if this, then that logic for somebody watch a certain threshold, then they see another thing, and then they see another thing. It's, um,
one of the most repurposable
things that exist. It has effectiveness as soon as you start to do it even at the smallest levels. I'm sure you get people that, as an example, like, you tell them to do things like long form content in YouTube. They have no presence, no subscribers. They start that process. They get, like, forty, fifty views. Right? They get all discouraged. They they gotta ask themselves. First of all, there's a website
starts I think it's called, like, LimeLink
or some shit like that. And if you just go on Google and type in crowd size visualer,
you'll see this image of what forty and fifty people actually look like, and it's like a sizable room. You know? It's a good amount of people. But who are those people in most instances? They're people that are going through your sales process and looking you up because it doesn't act as a discovery mechanism when you first get started. So even in the earliest days,
you have presence
and impact in your sales process without that platform being a distribution channel for you yet. Obviously, long term, you get the distribution effect. Short term, you can use that same content in paid advertising strategies. It's it's universally beneficial. The one thing that I think is funny that when you mentioned this, right, it's like you've seen this, like, when was this, like, 2015,
2016 when you when you saw that that built that now billionaire do this. Yeah. I think people always look at, you know, they look at like people like TGR, Iman, or like those type, even Brest, they look at him like, oh, he's he's blowing up because of this strategy. You never look back into like how they've actually started. Right? Yeah. Do you feel at that time, obviously that that particular salesperson at the time Mhmm. Being extremely crushing on content when nobody else really was, or she kinda like frowned upon it. How Yeah. Much looked at it like you were like a clown or something. How much did you feel that contributed?
Or like how much did the discrepancies
between him and other competitors increase because of him going so hard on the content side? Uh, it's still as wide as you can imagine. I mean, it's like a it's like a canyon that as wide as the Grand Canyon did. Like, there's just huge separations between people who did it earlier and people who did it later, people who do it consistently versus people who have erratically done it, um, people who have like barely done it and then completely stopped. Mean, people always die in obscurity. They just don't exist.
Simple way to put it.
From me obviously knowing you and having seen a lot of the people you've worked with, you work with lot of the big marketers, right? The people who sometimes might say they they only do organic and Yeah. In reality run a bunch of ads. And those are like people who have upwards of like what, four or 5,000,000 followers on on Instagram alone. In your experience, if you had to go and reflect, what are some of the biggest traits that separate or actually make those brands as big as they are? Because I think a lot of people just think, hey, I just need to go the Andrew Tate model of like, let me just go and say a bunch of outlandish shit, or let me just go flex my lifestyle. Yeah. I have my personal opinions here, but I'd be curious, what do you think are some of the traits that make those big brands as big as they get? Yeah. The simple way to articulate it is, uh, you you be who you normally are, and just put out
a true version of yourself.
And this is very important you understand this because a lot of people don't.
They
put themselves out there online in a very, like, one-sided way. Like, as an example, maybe they only put themselves out there from a a professional perspective or based on, like, very specific career things that they want people to know about them. But you're not actually letting people get to know a version of you that is the entire version of you that you'd otherwise get to know if you were friends with you in real life as an example. A lot of people, as a result of having that one-sided effect, don't actually attract and maintain
a scaled amount of digital relationships at the same time with this version of themselves that they're putting out there. The best way for the most scaled people to remain at the level that they are is is really think about it. Like, you brought up Tate as a good one. Tate puts out boxing content, puts out fitness content. Tate apparently has, like, upwards of nine kids, I guess. He puts out content like that. Like, that's that's as an example how I know that was just through random piece of content. He talks about, like, even his parenting style as it relates to his kids. He obviously puts out money advice. He puts out, like, very specific skill related advice, puts out mindset advice.
He puts out, like, silly things. Like, as an example, you ever seen a video of him and his brother just dancing somewhere? Um, or, like, the one car that Tristan likes as an example, or the fact you even know his brother's name is Tristan. That, uh, that that red car that got the lotta yeah. You see what I mean? You know what it is. Those are all examples of them putting out a full well rounded version of a digital character.
And this is the thing that most people lack. They again, when I say they're very one-sided, they might be even just doing three specific things. Like, some people will just flex,
and as a result of that, people just look at you and they're like, well, there's no substance to this, guys. Guys, just a flex some people will put out flexing plus
a little bit of talking head like education content. Again, in that example, you're only two sided. Um, comparatively, like, I just put a video out the other day of my wife and I, uh, just in our house. We didn't do, like, some crazy gender reveal with, like, planes and rockets and stuff. We just had a cake.
And, you know, we filmed this little video of ourselves. Uh, we didn't we didn't even necessarily know if we were gonna put it out or not. It was more so a video for our families. And, uh, you know, we put these little little, uh, champagne flutes into the cake and, like, know, pulled it out and then, like, tried to see what the gender was and and, you know, it's tough to see. It didn't work out. But, um, yeah, I put videos out like that as an example. Uh, put, like, things like us just going out and getting married, all the way over to things like, um, you know, like, richer mindset content and
things like how progress is going with Jeremy AI and, like, rollouts like that, um, all the way over to talking head content, podcast content. You know? You you wanna put a full character. That's usually what lets people actually get to know you. And the reason you do that, it hijacks the same part of the brain that happens in real life when we build relationships with people. The people that we truly trust that we feel like we know the most, they expose
a majority of themselves to us, and that's what gives us this well rounded perspective that we feel like we genuinely know somebody.
That does not differentiate between an online and an offline relationship in the human mind. They're the same thing. They overlap completely.
It uses the exact same systems. They're not separate by any means. So those big people you talk about,
if you look at it as simple as it is, they have scaled relationships
with such a substantial amount of people because they've strategically put out a very well rounded amount of content and been genuinely helpful to a lot of people in a lot of different ways. Like just as in real life, you're probably helpful to some people with a very specific thing. You're helpful to others for a very specific thing. You put out that full well rounded character, all of sudden, you're helpful to so many people at a time. You you see guys like our Mosie or like, uh, as an example to use she's a woman as an example, Cody Sanchez is another one that does this. They'll put out, like, marriage advice or, like, marriage tips or relationship tips. Like, some people get confused when they look in our mosey who just gives business advice and they think, what the fuck is your mosey putting this out? Or, like, TGR is an example. He one of our consulting clients currently, he puts out all these crazy videos. So to most people, you'd be like, what what the fuck's the strategy behind putting out 20 videos of him, like, dancing around his house looking like he might be on crack or something. That's top of funnel, and it attracts the younger demographic that he actively sells to, and it's just top of funnel content. You know? Again, point being,
well rounded,
full digital character presented on the Internet at scale.
A whole bunch of people have relationships with them at the same time, and as a result, a whole bunch of people buy from them. Now let let me challenge on that a bit because Yeah. Because when we work with people, especially on a consulting basis, they always say this. They come to like, hey, I should do the TGR content. Right? Mhmm. My premise is that It wouldn't matter until you get at scale to be clear. Exactly. My point is always like when you look at like I'm gonna just use a few examples, think is Grant at first,
car salesman, then he went into real estate sales, then he went into like the more broader stuff. Yep. You look at, you know, TGR was like the hardcore streaming. Yep. Then when he kind of got big within trading, he started doing like the the humanization and like the lifestyle stuff.
Breast,
only SMMA document, document, document. When he kinda got big, he did that. I think most people try to do the reverse. Yeah. Right? Even even within yourself, I'm not sure whether that was conscious or unconscious, which which we'll get to in a bit. Very conscious. It was very like subject matter expert driven. And then once sort of the YouTube started to pop and IG started to get a little bit of traction, then the more, like, personable stuff came in. Yeah. There is a flow to it, to be clear. Like, if you're starting at the very beginning, the very first things that you ideally make are exactly what I described. You wanna do things that support your sales process actively because you're not gonna get any discovery. The only thing you're actually gonna get are just people who are actively buying from you looking you up first. That's always step one. Those things obviously align to whatever support your sale your sales process. After you start getting a little bit of traction, which again, usually just comes from content that supports your sales process. So for me, mine was talking about cracking million dollar months. It was actively attract attracting my agency clients that I was trying to talk to and people that wanna do a couple million bucks a month. That content twice a week did exactly what I described. Actively supports our sales process, then started to transition to a discovery mechanism. Then as a result of that, adding a lot of revenue,
you then transition over to the to larger scale where all that other little shit starts to matter because you're officially operating at scale. None none of the digital, you know, replication of your full self matters at all until you're truly at a point where,
first of all, you've you've
supported your sales process with content, scaled it a bit, turned it into a discovery mechanism by being extremely helpful and niche, and then only then do people really give a fuck about you otherwise. Nobody cares about a random person online until they're helpful with them in a particular way. Do do you do you remember Tate early on? I honestly, like, probably discovered him only, like, during, like, the lockdown period. So there there was a couple years prior to that. I think it was, like, 2017, 2018. His accounts would always get taken down, like, at a very high frequency, and the the place I discovered was on Twitter at the time. And you can imagine why it'd get taken down. Uh, imagine Tate, like, before being extremely well known, you know? And he had two offers, um, that I remember at the time. One of them was his PhD class, which is like his version of a dating course, and another one was this thing called the War Room.
And at that specific time, you're just watching this guy tweet, like, the craziest mental takes on on, like, how you can think.
And you'd read it, and you'd be like, man, who's who's this, like, crazy niche random guy that, like, you know, had at the time maybe dozens of likes on a tweet, and then his account get taken down, and you'd wait, like, anxiously and and enthusiastically about the next one cropping up because you missed the tweets. You know? And, uh, I remember I was talking to one of my buddies, Brandon Carter, about about Tate at the time, and Brandon ended up getting to go in and meeting him in person. He, uh, he had bought a few of his things. Long story short,
I remember during that time, like, he had done things like
a guy in The UK was picking on him. He drove over from Romania and, like, tweeted the whole experience of, like, showing up to this guy's house, trying to knock on his door, the guy being, like, drunk fat dude and, like, finding a, like, a whole trash can full, like, beer bottles and stuff. And he drove over and his ass and was just, like, taking a flex photo outside of his house, like, holding the trash can full of fucking beer cans.
And, again, stuff like that, like, even at a small level, little little fractions of that digital personality,
that still aligns to what he was putting out, which was valuable mindset shifts.
You know? So my point is, if if you wanna start the process, like, is a little bit of a bridge there. I think you'd agree with this. Yeah. That when you go from the niche content expert to to the okay. People are gonna start caring about the larger stuff. The way that you first start to branch over is by showing things that specifically
relate
to your subject content matter expertise,
but in, like, story form ways that are a little personal. Like, Tate driving over there and finding the guys that aligned perfectly to exactly the kind of mindset advice he'd been putting out prior. You know? And this this becomes, I guess, example, my world talking about million dollar months. It's like me talking about my own million dollar month journey and then sharing the specific things. As an example, like some of those lifestyle things that obviously comes as a result of that office expansion, staff expansions, like random bets that we make. You know, just simply put exemplifying
things that we actively talk about in the content. Then again, people start to care about the little shit when you're, like, truly at scale. Don't care about your marriage advice until you're operating at the level of like her Muzi's or Cody Sanchez or Grant's or That's things like what we always say is like nobody gives a fuck about the Yeah, stuff. Like I looked at Iman because that's like really who I kinda grew up around, and it was like, he had like a 100,000 agency owners that were like, Iman, woo. Then when he started to go personal development, which is still relevant to that demographic, right, they would still watch it and pump it, but then obviously now you have a total addressable market that's like so much bigger, which is how I I would say like he kinda started blow up, so Yeah. That that's that's pretty much it, and so I think most people get that fucking in reverse. Now, back when you look at some of the biggest clients you've worked with, even now actively building your brands, for someone who's starting out completely, might just have had a direct response background, right, or you know, just done, like, some random stuff with branding, but never took it serious, what do you think are some of the action that those people take on, like, a weekly, daily basis that really helps them kinda not only get build the brand in terms of the reach and the followers, but also actually, like, generate a fuck ton of sales? Yep. I'd say YouTube. YouTube for about two to three hours a week is all it takes. Um, when I first started this process, it was July 2024.
I wanted a very low time and effort way to invest into increasing,
uh, and opening up a new revenue channel, which to me, I thought YouTube would be the best play for that. I will say this, it depends on what demographic you're selling to.
If you sell to a more financially qualified demographic, YouTube is exceptional. If you sell to a more b to c like general public demographic, Shorts can be great, and you can invest in things like literally YouTube Shorts. But mainly, I'd say focus on Instagram and try to develop yourself on Instagram as a platform. Uh, for me, it was YouTube. 100%. And all it took was two to three hours a week. I would sit down on Sundays.
I started off with two iPads. I picked an iPad because it films in four k 60 frames a second. I bought two two iPad tripods.
And, uh, I bought the Rode mics, those little square ones. Uh, one would plug into one of the iPads, and then the other would hook up onto me like this. And I'd use the other iPad to draw. So so you needed two things, essentially. You needed, like, a very efficient way to be able to just sit down and film, like, on the fly when I felt like doing it. And two, I needed a format that I felt like was good for me. So talking head with me visualizing stuff by drawing on my iPad and screen recording and then sending it to my editors after that great.
For me, the the content ideas were endless. Just looked at my clients. I looked at my students, and I said, what's what's the pattern across all of them, uh, in this most recent period of time that's happening that I could address?
What are big problems that they've all solved in the past that have already been things that I put out content for that have helped them? What are active things that like my high spending or lowest spending clients are all actively working through? And sometimes it could be I'm talking to a very specific problem.
Sometimes it's like I'm talking to a more broader problem. And all it would take I'd I'd film about a 20 to upwards of one hour video in most instances. Some of them ran a little longer than that, but most of them in between that window.
I just pause it, drink some water, relax, maybe eat like a Kind bar or something, just go back and film a second one. I'd send them off to our YouTube editing team, and then from there we had a whole content system that we only implemented about six months later after seeing traction on YouTube,
where we take that, like, turn it into Instagram shorts,
turn them into tweets, turn turn them into link LinkedIn content, turn them into blogs on jeremyhanes.com,
things like that. But for for the first, like, six to seven months, we literally just only did twice a week YouTube videos, and that worked great for us. What prompted you to start it? Because I've known you for a while, and like, you you had some sprints where you would just rip three videos a day for like thirty to ninety days, and then like, you'd kinda slump down. What prompted you and say like, oh, I'm a take this YouTube thing, like, you know, comparatively like very serious and I'm actually make a conscious effort to now build my brand. Because to me, I always felt like you were like an industry sort of like secret, you know? Uh-huh. You'd have all these people pop up with all these strategies and I was like, swear to God, I've seen swear to God, I've seen that strategy before, you know? What was the reason for it? Well, I like to test against what I think works. I I don't wanna be right. I just wanna make money. So although I have opinions about what I think does and does not work, I go back and I actually test against those things to actually be right. So specifically around, uh, that July 2024 time frame, the bet was or I should say the belief was,
uh, you know, I haven't really ever generated the right type of client off of YouTube. Um, again, my type of client for the agency specifically is somebody that I can do a 10% net profit share with that also is gonna pay us a fee, that's also gonna risk, like, mid tens of thousands of dollars in a month. Um, they're gonna try to scale to at least 1,000,000 a month net from actions trackable back to me. So that was a very specific type of client, a very specific type of offer.
And the way that we had always generated those deals literally from the inception of the agency was outbound, and then a small percentage of people were referrals.
Uh, but mainly outbound, just pitching people via what we call the perfect old video pitch and some value some value driven follow-up. The moral of the story was again, typically on an annual basis, I'll I'll do something to try to test against whatever, like, key beliefs I have, like, beliefs. And that was a that was a consistent cornerstone belief of mine. So July 2024, the bet was,
um, let me try twice a week YouTube videos, and I'd never done this. I'd consistently up to that point made content for the lower tier of my education company, which at the time was agency owners.
In this case, I'd said, let me try to make some content specifically for my ideal client. Let's see if I can attract some some people that are for this. And what ended up happening was actually just a beneficial byproduct of of the bet playing out differently than I had anticipated.
I didn't attract any more than three people between July 2024 and now that I've actually taken on as a client from my YouTube channel to be clear. So hadn't been that beneficial, I'd say, from that perspective. But the traction came in the education company with a much higher qualified buyer compared to what I was previously attracting just due to the content topic
expanding dramatically. So starting to transparently talk about what we want our ideal clients to do, trying to crack a million a month, and and usually after that, trying to scale to a couple million bucks a month and all the lessons of that, very advanced lessons.
Um, we ended up getting people that were usually in like a mid couple $100,000
range initially. Now we get people that, as an example, just had a guy the other day who makes $10,000,000 a month. We had a guy do $90,000,000 a year. These guys both joined in now to my Jeremy's Inner Circle program, and we still get guys that are a couple 100 k a month that joined into that as well. What I'm trying to make,
that specific offer ended up being the the biggest benefactor
of the YouTube
content play and that bet. Um, so we continued the bet as a result of just seeing momentum with it, period. It also helped my secondary offer in my education company, my master Internet marketing program.
And then since then, it's also helped my Jeremy AI offer. So it mainly has helped my education company. So as a successful action, we perpetuate it. You know, we never cut off a successful or profitable action. You feel that almost kind of flipped around a bit the script that you were using or like the playbook you used to kind of get to like, you know, a million or multiple million dollars a month because you realize, oh, damn, this YouTuber, like, person brand thing is really pushing hard into
sort of, like, the, you know, inner circle offer as opposed to I didn't consider that it was gonna be something that had as much success with the education company. Uh, as I mentioned, I mean, my bet was to anticipate it would do something for the marketing agency and just attract more clients for that. I'd always had this is actually a very good a good point to, uh, to bring up about how some people operate. I'll be transparent with my own, uh, mindset in this regard. So I had historically sold to to agency owners, and I never wanted my education company revenue to exceed my agency revenue. I had felt just unethical in that regard,
and so I'd always intentionally
kept my education company revenue down. I would never promote it. I would never actively go out there and try to just grow the hell out of it. I would always keep it below whatever my agency revenue was at. So my agency revenue, thankfully, was always high. I mean, we had cracked million dollar months through the years a few times. We've been much more consistent with it over the most recent years.
And so therefore, there was still a lot of room in the education company. Once once the July 2024 YouTube bet came out where I'm no longer talking to agency owners, I'm talking to any kind of business owner with a high ticket product or service who wants to actively scale that and just learn lessons about million dollar months.
Um, that type of demographic
completely changed my mindset because it went around the belief.
Find a way,
uh, or go around is a great frame to have around beliefs that prevent action or inhibit you from doing something that's gonna be beneficial for you. In this case, I I unknowingly and unintentionally went around that belief. On the other side of that, I said to myself, like, well, what belief would limit me now from scaling up the education company now that it's no longer agency owners? I don't feel unethical
about that at all. So then I started scaling the hell out of the education company. So,
yeah, I would say that was a good, uh, a good result to do with that whole bet, but, um, yeah, didn't I also didn't anticipate that that offer would ever scale to the level that it has. Mean, now we have a hard cap of 250 people, or pretty close to that cap, and then we'll just wait list everybody, and if somebody drops out, we'll just swap them in, and and then we'll we'll move on, you know? But, yeah, it's been very successful. It's been good. Now, one of the things I think everyone's starting to latch onto it a bit, right, is like I think you're probably one of like the most financially qualified demographics, I would say. What was sort of like the philosophy and intention? Because you really like, which I think is intelligent, like went against the grain of like, hey, let me go go viral and let me go and like grab a bunch of views. Right? Dude, anytime I'm
not exaggerating, like anytime my content gets scaled attention, it's always just a mass amount of angry poor people. It's like, they fucking hate me. So, uh, my contents,
it talks in a very direct way in the way that these people talk, you know, in the style of content that they currently prefer to consume.
I just know how to talk to these guys because I've been talking to them for more than a decade now. I just hadn't done it publicly. Publicly. So So me me sitting down and taking all the lessons that we've otherwise implied for everybody that we've worked with over the years and just doing it myself was the easiest thing. I mean, we teach people how to do this for a living at scale,
and, uh, we consistently operate at scale and so many different clients at the same time. It's the easiest thing to do for myself. Just a game of messaging and having the right offers to plug them into. Now as a as a marketer myself, I look at it and I was like, oh, he must have like some form of strategy. And obviously, when you articulate, it's like, oh, just pick like the best, you know, sort of ideas or like questions that I get asked a lot of times. Right? Like for a lot of people, they overcomplicate the elements like, oh, what do I need to post and all Ideation of that part. Yeah. What was your rationale behind just saying that the questions I get asked, I actually just go make content around it. What's the process? Some people have like the craziest shit I've ever heard when they when they talk about their ideation. Like, they'll go do excessive competitor research, and they'll look at, like, top videos or, like, most searched videos, and and, like, that's how they'll come up with this is what I need to make content for. I've I've literally never done that, dude. I just sit down. I usually right before I'm about to film, I might have taken a few notes that week in my saved messages folder on Telegram.
Um, otherwise, I'll just sit down as I'm going into shoot, I'll say like, alright. What happened this week that everybody dealt with as a problem? And because I operate at a scale now, especially with the education company and on the client side,
you'd be surprised. I'm sure you see this in your own business, to be clear with your clients. There's there's something collectively fucking them all at the same time, or there's something that's collectively benefiting them all at the same time. And in certain instances,
there's just very individual problems. I'll give you a great one as a perfect example. We tested a new software recently on a specific client account.
And I don't wanna trash this software, so I'm not gonna say the name of it. Um, however, I'll tell you the two softwares that it's in between. So this client historically has run a Typeform
and a Calendly for the scheduler, and they've integrated the two because they had a much, much lower drop off rate and a much, much lower cost per qualified call when they use those two softwares. Okay? And recently, they wanted to do some application grading to dynamically route people to different calendars
based on having an AI agent analyze
the long form questions in the type form. So what would happen is the type form would get submitted,
and then there'd just be a delay for about five to eight seconds
where an AI agent was analyzing the answers to that individual,
grading things based like character count in the long form questions
and the actual answers that the person provided,
scoring that lead, and then routing the person to a specific calendar. Now this five to eight second gap that it caused,
it lifted the cost per qualified call thousands of percent, not hundreds of percent, thousands of percent. It lasted a full week and absolutely nuked the profitability of that business for that seven day duration of time. We removed that specific software and encouraged that client like, hey, don't do that. And as a result of doing that, again, cost per qualified call dropped right back down to where it was, volume went back up, profitability came back. I can't stress this enough. Like that one specific test,
I'll make a YouTube video about now, and I'll say, look, there's a very, very specific thing that can sometimes fuck you.
And the way we found that problem,
obviously, just looked at the tracking data and we saw a huge cost per qualified call. A lot of people from there just freak out. You have to do a bottleneck analysis. And I'll reiterate the lesson of the simplicity of just analyze each specific step in the funnel that creates that statistic, and then that's how we found that issue. We removed the issue, and it caused a solution.
Um, that we go by this rule that if one person says it, there's probably a thousand people thinking it. And usually when you find, like, a very, very specific thing in a high level business like what we work with and are attempting to scale, there's other people that are actively gonna deal with it. So sometimes
I articulate
a specific, like, problem solution scenario
to a mass amount of people that are dealing with that problem at the same time, unknowingly to me in most instances. And then in other times, I create, like, a very specific video that might get, like, a thousand or 2,000 views as an example. But those views are very qualified views because they're dealing with that exact issue that I just talked about. And I, again, to my awareness, have generally no idea as to which specific topic has a higher or lower probability
to get more or less viewership, because I don't optimize around viewership.
I exclusively optimize around this is a specific set of issues that my client type was having. Let me find a way to just make sure I get the message out there about that. And I and I usually withhold a tremendous amount of information.
I usually withhold about 80 to 90% of what I can actually talk about. I only talk about 10 to 20% of what I know. And then I I will say that's effective for, obviously, the percentile of people that convert because of that reason to buy. However, I do need to pepper in other reasons to also get people to convert into the higher ticket things that I offer beyond the free stuff. We had a guy just recently, his name's Ludwig.
And I wanna be clear. I'm not saying this is gonna happen to you if you watch my free content. As a disclaimer, this is like a 0% probability you'll ever do this shit. Okay? This guy named Ludwig,
he watched my free stuff on YouTube. He was at 80 to like 200 k a month, he said, like bopping around in that range in like euros. He got to a million euros a month off watching my free shit is what he said in his own words. And then I was like, what the fuck? Why didn't you buy sooner? Like, if the free stuff is working that well, why wouldn't you have bought? He's like, because it was working that well. And I was like, alright. Well, I guess Boeing putting out 10 to 20% may be too much. You know, he would fucking pull back more, but the, um, the moral of the story is like, that's the strategy. We try to just, you know, help people as much as we can, give them things they can actually go do. We call it making them house money, you know, and my business specifically is, like, I make money into a business.
We wanna try to encourage people obviously get a result, make some cash, use that house money to buy some of our stuff, which is what a lot of people articulate when they go through our sales process. So that was the biggest like, to me, that's one of the biggest scams, like this whole like free course bullshit strategy. Yeah. Like, we literally
had one of those people that like watched the horror movies, like, I need to give everything away for free. He literally just went and he's like, alright guys, I've just decided I'm gonna give away my course for free.
Post about it on social media. I'll get you a lot of chargebacks.
He's like, he goes, he spends 50 k on like a on like a Grand Cardone event. Mhmm. He goes there, he comes back, he's like,
I don't have a 100 k in chargebacks.
We're So just sitting there like, what? And so like, I I found a very this guy literally went out of business and is now like, orange theory teaching like fitness classes. Damn. But it was it was one of those things that I realized it's crazy because everyone's like, oh, people don't buy the information anymore, yada yada yada. But we're seeing this whenever clients I see the exact opposite of it. People still want the information because they want the specialized, like, battle tested information. Whereas if you give it all away for free, they don't buy for implementation, maybe business owners do. But I think they're almost like, well, you don't have anything else to actually provide to me. Yeah. You have to have something else on the other side of it. We consistently get incredible feedback, obviously, once people actually do pull the trigger where they're like, holy shit, like, you weren't lying, you know? So that's that's the other issue that we're always up against, is there's just so many people that have fucked other people in this same in this same niche, and there's just a tremendous amount of people who have said, you know, all the things you could possibly say. Um, so at the end of the day, like, we do try to put out enough value to where, again, people can actually get some results with it and then turn around and be able to buy our stuff. We see we see that be the linchpin, especially in such a sophisticated niche and market. But there's also other components to it that make it more valuable than just the information. It's like the Jeremy's inner circle offer is a great example. Yes. It includes things like me, a one on one ability to talk to me, weekly group calls, but it's also a mastermind component where there's a tremendous amount of other people. And in between every one of these quarterly quarterly masterminds, like the one we got this weekend, we got six people getting trophies. We got a $5,000,000 month earner, and we got four we got excuse me. We got five different guys that are getting a million dollar a month trophy, and those people did that between January and this April event. So the last one, we gave out, what, nine trophies,
And those are all million dollar month earners. That means between the October mastermind and January mastermind, we had nine people. So the cool part about it is it's it's a multi component offer, and I think that's the other thing most people miss. They don't have sophisticated
offers
in the niches that they operate in, and that's also gonna prevent people from having willingness to convert and buy. They're just essentially selling more videos on the other side of a payment gateway.
There's a lot of people that are suffering right now that have that have that level of limitation. We've done things like update to live courses and programs. We've got an agentic version of Jeremy AI now that exists.
Um, all these things are just added value components
that increase the probability that the person on the other side gets results and sees enough differentiation between free stuff what and happens on the other side of the payment date in order to actually get conversions to occur. I mean, the content topic itself,
all those people doing that crazy level of competitive analysis and, like, all this other crazy shit they do, I think the best videos I've ever made just come from me looking at people in my in my exact client base and student base and just saying like, are y'all dealing with, you know?
Easy enough. And it's an unlimited deal. It's an unlimited idea flow too for me, you know? Now, on what you said about offers, personally think is an interesting one because I think that's been like one of the probably bigger shifts. Right? When you look at like, I want to get away from business to business and more towards B2C, right? Because obviously I think you have some
B2C clients doing like incredible numbers. What
would you say, do you see it as a shift from people just obviously selling a course, right, to like now, what are some of the best performing offers? Like, have clients doing, you know, upwards of 6,000,000 a month, like, as probably do you. Like, what do you see some of those
people doing better on the offer side, or is it a pure, like, offer don't matter as much? It's more the marketing and sales side. The offer always matters. The offer in a lot of sense, they dictate, like, every stat you have. Like, we have some people that have
such good offers, and they have such good show rates and such good close rates and such high levels of AOV.
Um, their sales cycles are all short, it's it's mainly driven by the offer. We have other people that have offers that are outdated or old or just something that people don't prefer right now, or they're in something that's not like a mainstream topic or idea for the general public that they're selling to to actively give a fuck about. Those people always suffer, they have to do that much more work to get over that friction. Um, these would be much more sophisticated things like all our back end selling systems at the greatest possible level, dialing in every stat to be as favorable as it can possibly be, like taking constant testing and CRO actions. Offers like pretty much make or break every stat that you're gonna experience. So, yeah, the right offers right now, we've seen a combination of all kinds of things. I mean, mainly in our world, some kind of high ticket product or service.
And the one I'll tell you this. The ones that always do the absolute best compared to any of the others
are something that is attached to like a current mainstream theme or idea. The one every single one of them that does couple million bucks a month, it's something that people actively give a fuck about a skill. I remember my buddies, he's in the inner circle Tom,
and Tom runs this hyperbaric chamber company called OxySeal.
And I remember Tom, he first started it up. I think it took him like four or five months. He got to a million bucks a month, and he's selling hyperbaric chambers.
And you look at Tom's business, he's got like a $50,000 AOV. He don't even have people that work for him. He's got setters that are AI,
that work with a Facebook Instant Form lead,
that use all kinds of tech, which we've talked about in the weekly group call library for our Jeremy's inner circle members. We went through that whole stack of everything that the guy uses.
And
he managed to get leads kicked into a three way chat with him and that AI setter after the AI vets him and answers all their questions. He's just banking people closed all day from athletes to these athletic organizations to regular people like us to fucking every every type of business that could use a hyper rec chamber you can imagine, the banking these deals closed through text, or is or is AI sitters talking to them on the phones. The point I'm trying to make is is like, yeah, guys like that in the high ticket space that have 50 k plus AOVs and not even using people anymore to, you know, info guys to we've had, what, I think three or four guys now that are in the tax saving for wealthy dude niche that have services that are essentially just CPAs that have gotten million dollar month trophies through the through the, uh, the Jeremy's Inner Circle offer. We've had guys that sell red light panels. Again, these are these are what people actively care about. Like, as an example, the tax guys, when has there ever been a period of time where people like taxes?
Right? Every period of time that I've ever known, people fucking hate taxes.
Right? Same thing with these wellness products. They are mass adapted.
They're in the mind of everybody right now. Like, wellness is huge.
Um, this is why peptides are actively taken off like crazy
is because, again, it has alignment
to things that are popular at scale. Now comparatively,
we've got other people
that are just getting absolutely
burned.
And there are things that people maybe used to care about that if you went and looked up in places like Google Trends, you literally see a decline in interest in the countries that they're actively selling to, and this is where their problem lays. They have offers that are aligned to declining
mass scaled interest.
Comparatively, when people are aligned to the bigger ones, are the ones that do a couple million bucks a month. The ones that are smaller,
they sell usually to a specialized niche. Like, as an example, business coaching isn't some at scale fucking mass adoption. Everybody always cares about it all the time. It's like as big as AI or as big as, like, wellness as an example. It's it's not by any means. However,
this is very important to understand. I help such a niche person with a very niche,
uh, outcome and, like, with a niche set of expertise lessons.
And I charge enough, and it's also recurring
to where I can compound up to that million dollar a month level
just through having something that, again, is isolated and niche and high ticket at the same time and recurring. So you can still be successful with something that's not necessarily like an at scale. Everybody gives a fuck about a topic, but man, it sure does help from an offer perspective. I'll tell you that. I I would say that for sure, but the one thing that I see is like, I think people, they're always like, I wanna call it cope,
but like a lot of people right now jumping on this train of like, oh, done for you works. And every every every business coach in this space is all of a sudden has a done for you agency again even though they spent the last three years telling everyone how shit it is to have an Now
my point is, what do you usually use like stigmas to identify whether some whether
an offer is actually cooked.
Mhmm. Right? Or whether, you know, whether your delivery just sucks. Because I I I have a client right now, he's also in the inner circle, right, who was who was told by, you know, another fairly high level individual that, hey, your offer is just cooked, buddy. She just went and ran it back up to like a million dollars a month. Yeah. I mean, there's give or take who you're talking to, I guess, different perspectives because not everybody has all the data that's necessary to make like a conclusive decision about whether something's right or not. I will say this, the top indications that usually you have an offer that is just absolutely fraud,
you've tried every type of funnel that you could. And I'm not saying you you tried it for, like, a week, like, ran, like, one webinar and then gave up, know, and then you get to say you ran webinars, you know, I think you ran a call funnel for like two weeks. I'm saying like, you actively tried and tested messaging angles
and funnels
and at the very least just those two things alone. Okay? And then on top of that, you like try different traffic channels and different ways to try to bring people to you and you gave a genuine effort. Right? A genuine effort. Not like a little surface level effort. So somebody right now is absolutely gonna try to reach and be like, oh, dude, I've tried. But again, you've tried for, like, maybe, like, two, three weeks and and spent no fucking money and didn't actually try. Don't guess like yourself. If you actually tried
on traffic channels, funnel channels, and messaging angles, that's usually a way to be much more certain
that it's over and that something's died. You can also generally see it if there's and most of these people are are surprisingly always connected to each other. People who compete with one another,
generally, whether it's through a direct connection or, like, employees that work for some of these other people's organizations that they compete with, they all somehow always know.
Oh, this guy or that guy is not making that much anymore, or this guy or that guy is making a fuckload more. And sometimes I'll see people justify it like that, where they'll say, oh, everybody in my niche right now is getting getting just fried, dude. Everybody's cooked.
Again, even in that example, we've seen people who are the outlier and absolutely crushing while everybody else is suffering.
So I'd tell you messaging,
funnels,
and traffic channels, if you've exhausted all those with a genuine effort, that's a good way to know. What what I will say on this with because we actually did some research on this the other day. People tell us that the oh, why is this this person can't be doing good? You know, that niche is cooked. Yeah. And we always relate back to, like, yeah, that's true if you're just really reliant on, like, direct response.
From my experience, least, direct response, like, you really put, like, sort of the offer and, sort of the the high level overview you can get. Yeah. Whereas for us, when we do content, you know, and we we kinda like sell through the brand, we just sell the outcome.
And what I've really come to learn is that people don't really give a fuck about the vehicle you could get in. They just care about like the transformation
and the likelihood that they can
get the sort of like transformation. Because I mean, we have some clients who sold,
you know, video we still sell video course plus coaching. Yeah. And they're ripping like near million dollar months. But they're obviously becoming aware the moment competitors find out that, hey, they're just selling that. Yeah. They're obviously rinsing that on the call. They're like, hey, this, that, and the other. Yeah. So you need to adjust. But I think that is a big thing where most people like, one, their product probably sucks, but also two, they just sort of cope by like not having
access to a brand or a poll where they can show, hey,
I've been able to achieve a certain transformation
per se. Yeah. Right? In order to actually be able to get people in in what they're doing. It's a very good messaging best practice. We teach this in the master messaging SOP that we give to you guys, and we have a visual of a cliff's edge and another cliff's edge with a bridge bridging between the two. And on the first cliff side, we say, this is people's current circumstances.
Over here is people's desired outcomes.
Uh, again, so on this first side, we got problems, circumstances,
and over here, we've got desired outcomes.
The bridge is what you sell to get them from one place or the other. They don't give a fuck about the bridge until they feel like you understand where they're currently standing and where they wanna transition over to. So the bridge would be the offer in this case for the vehicle of how you're gonna get them over there. To your point, they have to be understood
and feel like you genuinely
get where they're at and where they wanna go first. To us, that just means the messaging component of what I've said.
Sometimes messaging changes. Markets become more sophisticated. Desired outcomes change. Circumstances change.
Um, as an example, imagine running ads through COVID or through a war and not actively talking about the broader circumstances that everybody finds themselves in. The place that you've historically executed and articulated yourself from, it changes like nobody's there anymore. The messaging doesn't adapt and update like everything else falls through. So, yeah, again, to your point, we don't necessarily always just judge the bridge first. We don't always start with, is this offer cooked? We try to assess,
okay. Well, based on what you're saying, are people even landing with that anymore? Like, do people actually have in any way, shape, or form relatability to what you're trying to articulate in the messaging? Because a lot of what we've seen with people that have been around for a long time, it's all they really done. They just adapted
who they're talking to and where they're talking to them from, and then they plug the same bridge time and time again.
Very rarely from what we've seen, believe it or not, does the bridge actually have to change. Usually, you can just fortify the bridge a little bit and make it a little sturdier to walk across. You know what I mean? Yeah. 100%.
Now talking about, like, sort of the whole bridge and, selling.
What would you say to someone who's, like, launching a new offer, right, Who or who might have like had the first offer launch the second one? Yep. Test on organic or test on paid ads?
I don't know. It depends really. If you've got an organic presence, the easiest thing to do is test on organic first. I think that's the easiest and most,
I don't know. I guess the word is
they're they're nice to you. You know? They're not harsh.
Comparatively,
if you do a cold paid advertising audience,
you're
cranking the difficulty level up from easy to essentially extreme difficulty if you just go true, cold, broad. However,
true scale exists generally in that cold,
broad audience that you're gonna tap into eventually.
So I've seen it work both ways. Sometimes people will take an offer and they'll put it to an audience that has no idea who they are, and that if you really think about it, is the best way and the rawest way to test the messaging, the funnel type, and the actual offer itself. If have success there,
you are gonna absolutely clean house when you do it organically.
The illusion
when something works organically is that it can eventually work with paid. So when I take something from an organic environment
and I attempt to increase that difficulty spectrum to a cold paid advertising audience,
I'm sure you've seen this time and time again. If we have somebody that comes from, uh, let's say they're doing YouTube and Instagram or one or the other, doesn't matter really, they have a call funnel. Okay?
We've seen people come to us and be like, dude, wanna take my call funnel and go do, uh, paid ads.
And I'm like, your sales team is probably gonna blow. Like, they're not gonna do good. They're gonna be so ass at converting people from a cold paid audience to a call funnel.
And they're like, why? I'm like, well, people are watching an unknown amount of your content. Like, they might have been watching for months or weeks or a ton like, who knows how much they're even watching?
And you don't know that. Like, you have no idea. You can't quantify that in almost all instances. You know? Like, even if you ask people, you don't fucking know. So then you go and you try to just run ads and get people through that call funnel as an example, and your salespeople all of a sudden having to do the education component in addition to selling when all they've historically done is lay up deals all day, you're gonna have a bad time. Right? So the main thing I wanna make clear is is if you try to go from organic to paid, there's actually a lower probability
that you'd have success with it depending on what you choose to transfer over. If you do the opposite,
where I start with cold paid advertising,
I have damn near a 100 probability that whatever I roll over to the organic is not only gonna work, it's gonna be like dropping a nuke when all I need to do is, like, light a fire. You know? Like, it's gonna go crazy on the organic side if I can get it to work over there with the hardest, coldest audience first. But you know what's a crazy thing? We see this So one thing that we've started to do, which has been such a game changer, we split up closer teams in organic versus cold versus You have to. Yeah. You have to. We've seen though that on a on a particular offer, they're doing like a few million a month. The
paid close, they can close for shit. Mhmm. So I was I was very confused. Should I do the rinsing like paid ads? It's like super direct response, super like, you know, hardcore selling. Yeah. So I started to look at calls and I was like, the best organic closer couldn't crack an egg unpaid. So I watched his call and he was basically just, for lack of better terms, joking with the with the with the prospects Yeah. And closing really well on organic. Yeah. And so we realized, oh shit, these people have consumed so much content. They feel a certain warmth, right, when they jump on and they joke,
so when you put the paid clothes on you, it's just in there, so what's your pain point?
Yeah. They they get like well and timid vice versa. The other people who come in cold, they're like, why is this guy joking with me? Yeah. So we've almost like started retraining clothes where we're like, right. If you talk to organic people, like, be a bit more, like, gentle, you know? Yeah. In a way, we're, like, now building the team separately because it's like Yeah. If you have a separate sale It's better to have a separate team because most humans, they don't have the ability to just, like, flick a switch and become a different identity, which is essentially what it takes to sell to one versus the other. We also typically encourage if you are gonna roll it over because it's technically more efficient to just have the same closing team do both and be capable of doing both. Just play into the sales team's strengths. So if they're historically used to closing deals from organic all day and essentially just closing layup deals, then try to find a way to give them layup deals from the paid advertising side, which nowadays, the reason we see so many of our Jeremy's inner circle million dollar a month or couple million dollar a month earners cracking success is because they're doing webinars.
And they've done well organically,
and then they look at that one rule of thumb where they just say, what's my sales team's strengths? If it's layup deals and it requires them to have some type of content mechanism prior to the sales call, then run some kind of paid advertising funnel that actually plays into that specific thesis
of let me give them a layup deal who watched content first. A webinar is a great mechanism of that. Challenge funnels have been another great mechanism for that, but again, less frequently capable of executing much bigger, much much larger risk and just exhausting. But webinars can be done weekly, twice a week. We have one Jeremy's Inner Circle member doing it three times a week with success.
I will say that does get exhausting too, and live webinars are currently crushing comparatively to the Evergreen automated webinars. So hopefully that transitions over soon for the pendulum. But for now, it's live, you know? The biggest thing that I've seen, this is like a big switch like I've seen within you, is
you stopped hating on clothes as much because you and I Not to hate them.
You and I used to go back and forth and just slander sales trainers and like, basically, like, hey, this person needs to go on the blacklist. They deserve to be slandered.
They deserve to be on the blacklist. What was your? I had somebody earlier today say they bought from you know who,
and they they went through that mastermind from that guy. And you know what that guy taught him? He's like he's like, you need to get your salespeople to just be order takers. Like, you don't want salespeople to be trained. And I was like, dog, you're a sales trainer given the advice of, like, I hate that shit. They absolutely should be capable of closing deals, and they should be capable of being real salespeople. However,
just acting in rage purely about how terrible they are and trying to force calls onto their calendars
that haven't watched content through a call funnel as an example or something like that, uh, it's not gonna get the job done, and it's not gonna make us money at the end of the day. So regardless of the fact that we know they should be better at their job, we can be better at our job in that instance and still be capable of providing them those leads that are gonna be a higher probability to be a layup deal. What was your selling What was your thought process? Because that's really something where, like, I take some of my lessons away because I was just like he was like a freaking little terrorist, like Dude, I'm full rage because they just lost me so much money, dude. But then one day I had to speak to you, he's like he's like, no. Like, you more or less called me a retard. You're like, just be better and just make it so they can close deals and just layups. And that went away. And I was and in the beginning, I was like, well, that was some stupid advice. Yeah. These closers suck. But then as I sat there, was like, oh, fuck. I can control It's a shift for sure. Yeah. What what was it that gave you those manuscripts? Because I see so many in you where you just like randomly flip a script,
like it makes so much sense. Well, I told you this towards the beginning and I genuinely mean it, like if I'm attached to a specific belief or idea, like, I will I will routinely go back and test if I'm right or wrong in that current belief. So that belief was what I call the cornerstone belief during that time. And I think you're referring to probably, like, 2021, 2023 time frame.
Um, during that period of time,
I did a lot of actions to try to improve
the skill of the closers we were working with. Like, I filmed an entire sales training program.
I would jump on sales training calls with client sales teams, and that had effectiveness.
I would write up, um, as an example, like our setter best practice SOPs and our ultimate sales follow-up mastery SOPs.
And I would actively work with these sales teams as much as possible. I even at one point with, uh, an old business partner, Jordan Stupart, created a little company we called Lead Guys at the time to take over sales teams in an attempt to just take off the responsibility from these clients and take it in house ourselves.
We'd work with sales agencies over the years, some of which are terrible, a few very few of which are actually good. But the, uh, the moral of the story is during that specific time, we just repeatedly
rotated
what our strategy was to get the outcome of get these guys to close. And honestly, man, damn near none of them work. They'd have temporary effectiveness if they did work, and then it's like a rubber band. Everything just snap back to its original position.
So we chose to just test against that belief entirely,
which is, okay.
If the closers were always terrible,
and there never was a way to get them good. Right? And every sales trainer that currently existed was just openly advocating for, like, not following up, and you shouldn't you shouldn't do anything other than just calendars on your a close calendars are full every day. You should have a full calendar or you should quit. You know? If if that
was how everybody was gonna be moving forward,
you know, what would we change and what we do what would we do to adapt? And that's where we started the back end selling systems. That's where I originated those five different things with confirmation page best practices, the hammer them strategy. We still had a bunch of setter pre call best practices because it did have huge lifts in show rates and the overall close rates. Uh, but again, then we had AI manipulation mastery. We had value dense email sequences.
And these ideas became obvious, but were previously blocked due to the belief. So like I said, I will actively at any time abandon whatever I currently think if I find something else that's more beneficial to think instead.
And at that time, as I mentioned, every single thing we were attempting to do just simply wasn't working
with the sustainability we needed it to have. As a result of that, we pivoted away from it, and we took it into our responsibility entirely. And I will say, the clients that we work with that make the most, they benefit from those systems that I'm sitting here talking about, like the back end selling systems, but they also have great fucking sales teams that suck.
Okay? The ones that have sales teams that suck
and that just suck at sales management too,
those are the ones that still have a lot of friction in their scaling.
Those are the ones that still have to figure that out. However, they're still able to scale now because we've alleviated some of the problems they've historically had. But it limits the business on what they can do. Like, not every business wants to do a webinar every week or twice a week, but they literally have to do it if that's the type of sales team that they got, and they're not gonna take accountability to make them better or find a way to get a better type of person in that role. You know? So it's a combination of of marketing responsibility
and
funnel types that play into
that layup deal actually occurring. You know? Talking about the funnel types. Right? I think I what I absolutely despise is like the bandwagon jumpers. So I feel like 2022,
2024, which is great for us, everyone was like, fuck pay dads. They're chopped. Let me run organic. Yeah. Right? And I feel like last year, probably probably due to some of your stuff blowing up, everyone's like, yeah, organic is dead. Paid ads, we go. What I see is like the hybrid model, right? Of like, obviously, you have the content ad strategies that have been working. Yeah. You know, I feel like aside from retargeting, I fucking hate ad agencies that just do retargeting. Yeah. Like, fuck. Dude,
on all of our deals, there's like some bad agencies
that are literally they come in. Every deal I've ever had is one of those agencies on. They literally just go and slap like 2 k a day on retargeting.
I'm sitting over here like, guys, what are we doing? You know? I had an agency the other day, they just they bluntly spent $6
a day on retargeting ads. Wow. And then we we tell the client, like, the fuck we doing? Like, you know, our lead flow, like, organically died
out. Yeah. And so they they go, Tom, and the client goes, well, it's our best performing ad campaign, so I highly advise against turning it off. Yeah. No shit. No no shit. It's like a Google branded search campaign where they're like, this is our highest ROI. And I'm like, yeah, dude. Because people are just looking up the name of the fucking business or the product. And it was so funny because then they're like, yeah, we turned it off. I'll let you go, India ads manager. I'm like, you guys literally haven't turned it off. So I was like, it was so weird. But to to to get away from that, what would you say is like an ideal scenario for someone who either is incorporating
organic into a paid strategy or an organic person incorporating
sort of like paid ads as a scaling strategy?
What would you say is sort of like the hybrid model of how you combine
the best practices of scalability of ads and the nurture and sort of like warmth aspect content together?
How would you convert First things first, just again, look at your sales team strengths. If you're coming from organic, you wanna move to paid or you're going from paid to organic, simply look at the sales team first, because that's gonna determine the the funnel strategy that you're gonna have to do on the other. Like I said, you could be organic and run a call funnel, That means fuck all because people are actually consuming content as the mechanism that gets those calls to be warmed up and probable to close. On the paid side, you do a webinar in that example. It has a much higher probability to work. So you gotta get a testing budget, aka a gambling budget defined for how much you're gonna put towards that, and you could supplement it with some content. So usually,
the best types of content ad strategies to start with are the ones that are supplements
to the direct response campaigns.
The best one that I use right now, I refer to as the hammer them strategy. So as an example, we had a webinar just last night for my business. We promoted it over about three days. Okay? I had a 44%
show rate on this webinar last night. I implemented all my back end selling systems into this thing. The one that I love the most because I'm really good at making content is the Hammer Them campaign.
Right where we found them
is where we're gonna find them again.
K? So I had 80 plus percent of my leads last night come from a cold broad paid ad audience.
People don't know who I am.
I drove them in for about 12 to $15 apiece
to that webinar last night.
In between the time they opted in and the time of the webinar starting,
I hammered the fuck out of these people with short form and long form content.
So we took about 30
of my YouTube videos
in their in their fullest entirety.
We put them in front of that audience.
We got a frequency on that of 13.
So that means that between the time they opted in and the time the webinar happened,
they saw. It doesn't mean they watch. Means they saw
13 pieces of long form content.
Okay. We also took about 40 pieces of short form content.
Okay. Now these fell into four different buckets. Questions, second layer questions,
expectations,
and objections.
Okay? And we just hammered these people with upwards of 40 pieces of content. The frequency between the time of the webinar opt in and the time of the webinar starting on the short form content, which is in addition to the long form by the way of 13, was 17.
So we had 17 pieces of short form content hit them in the feeds, and we had 13 piece of long form content. Now what's that do?
That gets the person far more excited. You gotta look at it for what it is. Okay? If organically,
like we have guys like Ludwig who I talked about, that fucker took eight months
of scaling up his business with free content going from 80 to 200 k to a fucking million bucks with the free content. Okay? Eight months. That's how long he watched for. We get people sometimes to tell us, like, oh, I just watched two videos and I bought. Or we get people most of them say, oh, couple weeks, couple months. Right? You can tolerate that organically. From a paid advertising perspective, we have to find a way to compress all that down into a short period of time. We have to condense it all. So the way that we condense that is if you just think about what I just described,
13 long form videos and 17 short form videos in under seventy two hours.
And then a webinar. You see? So what that does is, again, did they watch all of it? Hell no. Is there a percentage of people that watched like, um, you know, maybe 25% of those videos? Yeah. A percentage of watch 50%, 75%, etcetera. And you can quantify all that through the paid ads manager.
The moral of the story is
that got us a little over a six x cash on cash ROI last night on that webinar with a 44%
show rate to it. People showed up already aware. They showed up enthusiastic. They showed up excited. They showed up with familiarity bias because we condensed what would otherwise happen organically
through content remarketing.
We replicated the organic sales process via paid ads. That's what the Hammer Them strategy does. That has great effectiveness
for things like webinars, call funnels, DM ads, But it's it's a strategy where you gotta have the volume. You gotta have at least a 150 people in that audience
to be capable of running it. If you don't got a 150 people, you don't get the opportunity to do it. Now let me let me ask a follow-up on this. I'm not a I'm not an ad expert, but the ad you said you obviously combined you, like, 30 frequency. Right? But basically, average person saw, like, 30 pieces of content long Just the value.
What would you say you said 12 to $15 cost per lead, right, per registration? Correct. What would you reckon the increased spend took that cost per registration? An extra $1,600
between those two campaigns. How many sign ups did you have, if you don't mind me asking? We had a little over 700. So let's say, basically, you you raised the the cost per registration effectively by, like, $23?
Yeah. Tiny bit. Tiny bit. And it's like, ask yourself this. Right? And and that's exactly what you do, by the way. You take that spend, you just blend it together with the direct response spend for your actual cost per whatever you're optimizing for, and that's how you, like, justify the spend of it. But you should see some kind of difference.
You should see some lift in the stats that matter, like show rates, close rates, shortening sales cycles. You should see lifts in things like AOV. The leading indicator usually besides the stats like just against show rates, your sales team should give much more enthusiastic
feedback about the lead quality. You should hear them say things like, oh, yeah. These leads were fucking hot. These were good. These were warmed up. These were similar to organic. And if you're historically not running strategies like that and then you choose to start doing it, that's where you're gonna see that feedback change. You just launch with it straight away. It's like it's just gonna become a benchmark of what you do. It's gonna become the standard, but most people don't. Most people are already doing something else and they add to it. So you'll see the difference in that example if you add it. Cool. Now, going away from this, I wanna talk about one topic that's my my personal favorite, some favorite speeches is, and really something, maybe that's because of European, European versus American, but sort of like the get richer mindset. Yeah. Hell yeah. I I find
me and my good friend Nick, he's obviously in the in the circle for few years. We always say like, you're almost like an anomaly. Right? Like the way you kind of think, the way you just constantly like push to get richer. I used to lie about how important money is. Where and where where do you feel like that comes from? Because some of this stuff,
like initially, like when I met you, I was like, some of this stuff is like crazy, you know? Even my wife was like, this guy is like nuts. But sometimes she comes back and she's like, oh, like It all makes sense. It's
starting to like kind of make sense, you know. Where where does that stem from? Because it's like From reality, bro. But but you didn't grow up rich. So where where did you build up my example of where it originates, you know, it's like seeing like limitations from money up close
and then getting richer and experiencing like the expanded options that come from getting richer. I always compare it to a Grand Theft Auto map or like some kind of video game where the map is just totally grayed out besides where you've physically been. You only unlock the other part of the maps as you physically traverse into these other areas. With money,
As you make more money,
you literally unlock new ways to think that you previously could not even think with. You have options,
you have choices,
you have physical locations that all are only accessible
because of certain amounts of money that you have or do not have. Right? Food options,
uh, health options. I'll give you a perfect one. My wife's pregnant right now. Okay? We have a baby on the way right now. Okay? Now this baby, when we very first started to go through the process of sourcing an OBGYN,
the very first question I asked What is that, sir? An OBGYN is somebody who actively goes it's like a doctor for pregnant women's simply. Okay? They're like masters of pregnancy in terms of the doctor specialty that they have.
You could go to the insurance model once. So here in The United States, like, we have a lot of crazy stuff that happens in the health care department.
Insurance and health care costs are insane here because they work hand in hand to drive the fuck out of rates. Insurance companies pay for it, so health care companies consistently raise prices. Here's the moral of the story.
We
go into a random OBGYN
that we saw good reviews about, and it was an insurance based OBGYN.
Those are high volume,
low,
like, they don't put a lot of time into you. Okay? And it's like a churn and burn model. They just want a bunch of people to get in and out, and they get paid later. They don't get paid like right then and there, they only get paid their co pay. The insurance company pays them out like maybe on a net 30 or a net 60 or net 90. Who knows?
Cash businesses
as it relates to health care. Just from being a little bit richer and being able to afford, like, I guess, example, his most recent appointment for some very specialized ultrasound
with $900.
K. Pretty much free.
K? And through insurance, you know, it would have only cost like $20 out of pocket.
The insurance one had a waiting lobby
full of people. Okay? We walk in, I see a waiting lobby. I'm talking mass waiting lobby full of folks. Enjoyed that. No. I didn't even go. I I look at my wife. I'm like, this this is not a rich person OB GYN. Like, let's leave. Okay? And we went on chat specifically, and we asked. We said, what's the rich person version of an OBGYN down here in Miami? And they gave us three different services for essentially what's called concierge OBGYN
services. Okay? Now this cost 5 to 15 k depending on which one you went with. I went with the one that cost 15 k. Okay? I have not waited in a line. My wife has not waited at a line when we go to these random appointments for ultrasounds, for specialist doctors.
They gave my wife so much more attention and care than any one of the insurance based OBGYN
fucking specific businesses did. Most of them have also come to the home with the same exact equipment they would have otherwise had you go to a facility for. And the process
even you go to a hospital to deliver a baby, did you know that they have suites
to deliver the baby versus there's also just regular rooms that might have, like, four different women giving birth with, like, a shade in between you as an example? It's like, what do you think makes the difference there? You think that it's the type of insurance you have? No. It's the fact that the suite costs, like, a couple grand a night that you gotta pay cash.
Like your wife's gonna be there for maybe five days, seven days. Who knows? Could be as little as three days. It's like, dude, can you stomach, like, $10.15,
20 k on the on the fucking cost for the suite? Most people can't. Do you know sweet comes a better food? Most hospitals here in America have the the worst fucking food quality did. Not the sweet. The the sweet the sweet actually have a chef that caters just to the sweets that you can ask for whatever the fuck you want. Okay? It's like that's not for any other difference than just you have enough money or not to access it. Um, I always give this one, this one's like one of my favorites as an example.
There is a vet appointment when I had dogs. Okay?
And it's just a routine thing with dogs, and my wife walks in and she, uh, just was there to check-in at the vet, do some routine shit with one of the dogs.
And
some ladies there just balling her eyes up, just crying like a motherfucker.
Okay?
And my wife's sitting there and she listens, she overhears the lady saying,
know, there's a five k surgery. It's like a life changing
excuse me, like a survival surgery. Like the dog is gonna die if this dog doesn't get this surgery. K? It's life saving life saving surgery only cost 5 k. This lady didn't have 5 k. She couldn't get approved for funding or whatever the fuck she needed. They're gonna kill the dog. My wife just immediately pays $5,
saves this random lady's dog's life. Okay? That dog was gonna die. Do you know have you ever had a dog? Half a dog. Dude, how much do you love your dog? So much. Can you imagine having to kill your dog over not having 5 k? No. It's like, that's my point. It's like, people omit that money dictates every single thing that we do or do not do, and they act like the place they live,
the quality of the sheets that are in their bed,
what they wear,
the options where they go to eat, how they travel. Like, dude, a 100% of it is dictated by money. A 100% of your health is dictated by money. It's and and when you just when you just stop
lying about it and virtue signaling about it and just simply say, okay,
this is the reality of my where this is this is what system I play in. Like, am I am I just gonna become a monk
and, like, fuck off and have no need for money? Because I'm under the impression even monks obviously get sponsored by somebody because they need money to eat unless they're just growing all their food. I don't fucking know how that works because I wanna be a monk. You know. I want nice things, I want nice stuff, and those things cost money. So again, my point is,
when you just simply stop lying and you wake up to the reality of the situation, what your reality will reveal to you is the exact set of lessons that have led me to something I've just been vocal about instead of just fucking hiding from it. Okay?
And I look at it like one of the best real reasons to perpetuate getting richer and richer. There are levels
that you can settle at where you say simply put like, hey, enough's enough. Like, I'm good here at this level. But you don't even know what level you may actually be truly comfortable settling at until you've reached that level in the first place. So why not try to strive up a little bit higher until you truly truly find that serenity you've always been after? And I will say this. There's plenty of people out there who try to counter this. I've I've become somewhat religious recently. Okay? I've gotten a relationship with God, and I've gotten a relationship through Christianity with Jesus.
And
because I talk about this too, and I talk about my get richer beliefs, people tell me things like quotes from the Bible,
like, oh, it's harder for a rich man to get into heaven compared to like threading a fucking camel through a needle hole or some shit like that. Dude, there's also plenty of things in the Bible that talk about how fucking important it is to get wealthy and richer, you know, but they don't quote those things. There's people, simply put, that try to use, like, any justification under the sun.
Uh, whether it's a handy down belief, like, there's plenty of handy down beliefs too. Whether it's from a religious background or whether it's just from, like, your mom or your grandpa or some random person who said, oh, more money, more problems, you know, or, like, little things like that to start to weigh on your psyche. If you just
remove all that stuff out of the way, in all situations, it's like even in the religious example, the richer I get, the more I can donate to church.
You know, the more I can help expand God's kingdom. That's like the whole thing in the entire Bible, is help God expand his kingdom. The more you can do, the more impact you can make, the more charitable you can be, the more help you can actually provide. Right? And some people will say things like,
um, oh, you might just have a void or like some kind of hole you're seeking to fill with money. It's like, no. No. That's not the case at all. As a matter of fact, like, I'm super happy. I could be content with where I'm at right now for sure if I needed to, and I feel accept exceptional fulfillment and peace through my relationship with God, but I still
am in no way shape or form oblivious to the fact that money is so excessively important and must be generated in mass. I need more of it undoubtedly.
Because every time I do, always get to do more, not just for myself, not just for my family, but truly like really make an impact on the world in a positive way. So anyway, more of the story is is just just reality. Just screams at you this lesson. If you actually just look at life and say, what's it teaching me? That's one of the core lessons it's taught me at the bottom and at the top again and again and again. What I what I find interesting when you speak about this, right, is I think a lot of people that, yeah, wanna get richer and they wanna obviously do it for the material stuff, but then what happens is it's like the fine line between
I buy something nice. Right? I I make money, I buy something nice, and then obviously going and overspending and losing it all cause you just fuck around with it. Or Don't do that. No. On the flip side, people just hoard money. Yeah. I would say one of the things that really stood out was like obviously people see, you know, but when you post stuff like the cars, the watches, all of that stuff, I think a lot of people don't see is like
how much money you've actually sort of like, you know,
put aside, invested, or or whatever. Accretes longevity. What was your approach or like what was your philosophy behind like using the money to, you know, not only like buy some nice shit, but also build longevity with it, while sort of maintaining that get richer mindset and not really get complacent.
Yeah. So a few things. I mean, first of all, you just gotta be financially responsible, which means in in what you're asking now, come up with some kind of investment plan for yourself because you'll have an earning window, typically a finite period of time where your skills are most relevant, where you can milk them for the most that they'll ever be worth. And then you either have to adapt skills,
change offers, or find something else that you could do to make more money, which not not a lot of people find willingness or
capability to do as they age. Most people, like, burn out and stop. Um, so very important to note, like, relative to whatever you do. Think of athletes as a good example of this. Like, there's a finite period of time where they can realistically make the most from being an athlete, and then after that, like, their their earning potential limits and goes down and down and down, depending on what level of athlete they are, of course. But for the most part, that's the case.
Do you obviously, during that period of time, we need to have some kind of plan that's just mathematically quantified for what you're gonna invest into and win. I just met, um, through my wife. She has a friend.
They had an engagement party,
and the guy is a NFL player. He's he's a he's a lineman.
And I'm not sure of the exact contract value that he gives, but, you know, as I'm sitting there talking to him, he's watched some of my content, like topics like this where I'm just talking about money. So he knew I'm all about getting richer. Right away, in the first, like, two minutes of conversation, he's like, dude, I wanna be worth $300,000,000.
And I was like, by what age? He's like, by, like, 35. He's like, how old are you now? He's like, 24.
And I was like, what are you doing to get there? And his specific math was to put
a little over a couple million dollars a year into
venture capital and private equity based bets. Like, he had some money in companies like Ring. He had some, uh, money in a company a defense company that should go public here soon called Anderrill,
that Palmer Lucky company. There's, um, a few other random plays that he had invested into, and that was through
private equity or through venture capital firms that as an athlete, had gotten access to because they know, obviously, athletes have huge sums of money in finite periods of time. He would not get there through traditional investments like the S and P five hundred as an example, which might be probable to return like 10% a year. People who have longer earning windows
can have less risky plays in terms of their investment strategy.
So I defined when I was 25, I was like, alright. If I took twenty years from 25 to 45,
and I wanted to capture at least a $100,000,000, I'd always heard this rule. It was called the 4% rule, which is you sell 4% of your portfolio balance per year.
I was like, what amount do I mathematically need to invest? What amount do I need to return every year? Like, factoring inflation into it in terms of buying power, like, all this random math. The number came out to the most conservative possible investment bet I could make was I needed to invest 200 k a month, which is $2,400,000
a year, plus I have to pay taxes on that just to be able to invest it. I need to return 10% a year, and I need to do that for twenty years in a row, and that would get me out at least a $135,000,000.
And if I lived on 4% of that, paid taxes on it for long term capital gains based on current rules, factored in inflation and how it eroded my buying power,
what that would equate to over that period of twenty years is at the age of 45, it'd give me the option to live a great life without having to work for active income anymore if I wanted that option. Now, I currently sit here. I'm I'm now I'm gonna turn 32 here later this month. Okay?
I've been in that fucking game I just talked about for six plus years on an ongoing basis.
But now it's like I've also become aware that there's much
larger bets that are more risky, of course, like as an example, the venture capital or the private equity plays that I just discussed, NFL lineman's actively taking advantage of that have shorter time frames,
much higher probabilities to fail. However, much higher probabilities to return a dramatic amount.
Plus, as time has gone on, you know, my skills have actually increased rather than decreased.
I've entered into totally different earning windows that previously didn't exist relative to new skills we've developed as an organization and myself that have also extended out our earning potential more. Or as an example, in business, we get the opportunity to exit. So one recent business that we spun up, we have very high probability to exit for, like, high 8 figures, maybe even low 9 figures depending on what we can get it to cash flow. And I can't stress this enough. We get that opportunity
in these kinds of businesses that we run depending on what we choose to do, and that could be our version of the lump sum cash flow place that we get, or I should I should simply say the lump sum place that we have. We get cash flow along the way. Point I'm trying to make, and this is very important to discern between, you have to have a very conservative plan.
You have to have, like, more aggressive plans, and you just have to do the math for every single one of them and ideally stack a few strategies on top of each other and not just do one or the other. The NFL lineman, as an example, is also investing into the S and P 500.
You know? So he still had those backup plays that would be more conservative and obviously limit his life if he chooses to retire off just that cash. But still, like, backup plans, um, treat it like if you fell from the sky,
how many nets would you ideally have to fall through before you actually hit the ground? That's essentially the amount of total plays that you wanna make. Like, I have I have silly stuff, like, all the way down to overfunded whole life insurance policies as an example that I can draw from and essentially take what they call interest free loans even though they have interest. The moral of the story is, like, as many safety nets as you can possibly have is what I would encourage people to actively think with. Start with, obviously, one,
something that you believe in over a long term is pretty conservative. But as you make more money, get be more aggressive with your money because you have more money to risk.
Very important to be financially responsible and obviously just not not blow your cash. The silly things that I get to spend money on are are great. I do deeply believe in as we get richer, it's important to level up our identities externally and not just internally. I think that people start to look really crazy if they separate so far from how their external world looks versus how advanced they might be in their internal world. So I I like to have physical
representations around me in my environments and always materially
to represent to both myself and to others what level I believe that I'm at, so it aligns to the current identity that I I actively am. Does that make sense? Makes full sense. I think you had this it was in the inner circle. You you spoke about the 100 to 300 k per month people. Right? You kinda get stuck. Do a bunch of stupid shit. So silly. One of the things that, like, having worked with, like, that's really the the range where we kinda start taking on clients.
I felt a lot of time it is exactly like the personal relationship with money or like, you know, the willing or un the willingness to overspend or unwillingness to spend. That's really like fucking people over. Where like someone will go and spend 60 k blindly on like a webinar, then they'll come, oh, I need to discuss with the board if we can authorize an extra 5 k not spent on, like, a 40 x ROAS activity. Yeah. Where where do you see, like, people kinda go wrong in their relationship with money that kinda keeps them stuck at that range? Because that's one thing that really stood out to me.
Well, in almost all instances, it just comes down to either not making more of it or not being responsible
and allocating it for whatever current amount you've got. So out of every dollar that comes into your organization, you have to have a certain amount. You obviously reinvest back into bets to grow that business, which is generally just the reinvestment into the successful actions and perpetuating them. But in addition to that, you just gotta take bets. Like, dude, I what was it? A couple months ago when, uh, fucking Open Claw came out, and they were called Clawbot and then Moltbot and then fucking Open Claw now. I I didn't buy one Mac Mini. I bought 15 Mac Minis. I I think it's been less than three months, and we've already pivoted off of the 15 Mac Minis and just Clawd has essentially replaced every single one of them with all the most recent damn near daily updates that they roll out across their organization.
And, um, in addition to that, the new stuff that we're using is more powerful than the stuff that we were just using over the last two to three months. Here's the moral of the story.
Um, random bets like that, I think that bet in total cost me, like, 20 ish k.
And we still have managed to actually have, like, actual impact
in revenue and in cost savings
from agents in general, whether it was from OpenClaw and or this new set of clawed structure that we have with our agent. The point I'm trying to make and articulate to you is very simple. It's a random 25 k bet that was easy to just toss at something to see if it can make some extra money for us. Right? Random stuff like that. We have bets sometimes, like, as an example, even with podcasting. We had a guy just recently we're considering putting some cash into.
Um, he said something about, like, a 15 to 25 k offer that he had to get you on, like, a random set of podcasts.
One of the podcasts could have been upwards of, like, 15 k by itself if we wanted to go on that singular one. Uh, I didn't think that that one made as much sense to be fair in comparison to some of the other things that we could have actively put the same amount of money into. So we did we did allocate elsewhere. But nonetheless, like, bet may creep its way up on the random list of bets that we'll take. Um, I can't stress it enough. You since essentially have
a stack of successful actions that you wanna perpetuate
doing
forever
and expand,
okay, and amplify.
And then there's the random side bets that you take that can be some lump sums and or some additional cash flow plays. Like, I've I've been very transparent about this with our recent standalone launch of my my Jeremy AI offer. So you can see yourself go jeremyhanesai.com.
It's 300 a month currently while we sit here and film this or two k for the year. We launched it ten days ago. We promoted it through stories and reels, just a handful of them. And I have one YouTube video where I talked about, like, how much I'd made off of it so far. Like, at the time I sit here and film this with you, I said 38 k 5 MRR a month, and it got to $4.61
on an on an ARR basis because of the few people paying 2 k a year.
That ten days ago. It's like, that's just a random side bet where I was like, is it time to launch Jeremy AI by itself? Like, I don't know. Let's find out. Right? Just a random test. And that one didn't even cost much money at all. That was just, let's spin up a sales page for it and try to sell it on its own. You know? So again, side gambles
that all of a sudden turn into pretty much free rent for us, you know, because now our rent's covered based on this random fucking MRR play that we just spun up. It's like however you wanna justify it for a free fucking random payroll for, you know, whatever for the however I wanna justify. My point is,
random
bets are great to take, but as you have to invest especially in that lower range first in amplification. That's where most of the 100 k to 300 k a month guys really fuck up. Really anybody can suffer from this just to be clear.
If you fail to amplify existing successful actions,
you
will have a struggle some time scaling in general. Because it's generally the first step to scale, is figure some shit out that gets you a little bit off the ground and then find a way to amplify it to go way higher than you are right now. You do that successfully, you're good. What you see commonly
is resistance
ceilings,
these points of friction.
Like as an example, I remember you and you were at a lower level and then you got up to like what? Half $1,000,000 a month and then you started to plateau around there for a bit, you know, revenue ceiling and you just went damn near sideways for fucking months and months and months and you're actively aware.
Okay. I got this problem. I've got that problem. And you'll hit me up and you'll talk to me about it. You'll be like, I know this is fucking me and that's fucking me. And a couple months will pass and you'll you'll hit me up and you'll be like, I'm still dealing with the same fucking thing over here.
That's a great example what I'm talking about. Amplification,
when you're in the middle of scaling, you find yourself hitting these essentially either unanswered questions that stall progress
or things that you actively know are preventing you from scaling further, that when they get left unaddressed,
just prevent scale.
The speed in which you move through those cycles
quite literally dictates the speed in which you scale and how big you can scale up. A lot of people at those resistance
ceilings,
instead of actually just directly addressing the resistance
and finding a way or moving around it,
they go and they take random bets instead.
And so I'll tell you this,
the random bets can technically work to help get you up higher in that example that I just said.
However,
you still have to understand. It's like playing a video game with a main quest line and some side quests.
The main quest line is what generally gets you all the way to the end of the game. The side quest can only get you so far. A combination of both generally makes you a stronger character
and can make playing the main quest line easier
and up your stat points as you go.
So sometimes you gotta veer off to the side and you gotta strengthen up a little bit and then go back to the main thing. But if the main thing remains unaddressed,
that's generally where stalls occur that prevent people from actually going. So I generally encourage amplification
and keeping your attention there and actually addressing the resistance ceiling.
If left unaddressed, it doesn't make much sense to play the side quest unless you're doing it solely to strength the business' odds of going back and dealing with whatever resistance was something they previously weren't able to deal with. You know what I mean? Talking about talking about that or just using that as a pivot point side quests and, you know, kinda like strengthening points. Mhmm. AI. Right? I know I think everyone on the Internet right now talks about it. Feel everyone in the info cup space jerks off to fucking the next chat GPT or like Claude skills that they've just been able to get. Right? What is one, your outlook on, like, AI? And two, if you were to speak to, like, someone selling high ticket or selling, you know, info coaching space Yeah. How would you recommend they use AI? Because I do think, like, if you're on Twitter in this little echo chamber Yeah. You should very much get almost tricked into thinking that AI can run your entire business better than you can. Yeah. I see some crazy tweets nowadays and all that shit, dude. It's like every day I open up Twitter now, it's just, like, 20 tweets of somebody
quoting another article, and they're like, this just replaced everything in it. You know? It's it's always some bullshit. And then three and then you check them, and they're, like, based in, like, a non a non buyer demographic country, making $5, like, bullshit. You know? Yeah. Anyway, the, uh, this this is what I've learned.
First of all,
it advances extremely quickly.
So I use the example of having 15 Mac minis with open client agents and and, like, getting them to the point where they were set up and functional, and then we essentially abandoned them to a degree and went with something that was better, more capable, cost less, and more efficient.
That will happen when you're on the true cutting edge of this, which is very important. It's it's somewhat exhausting to perpetually keep up with.
However, perpetually keeping up with it has been incredibly valuable and and, uh, can be a revenue driven thing if you remain focused on how you can use these things to produce revenue
and and or replace payroll positions. Okay? We've seen that with a lot of effectiveness through agent function.
I'm personally most excited about AI agents. I mean, so much so we started up our AI agentic platform called Utari.
Now we did this because we simply put, we lost access at the time before Meta had bought Manus to Manus' agent mode, which we found a ton of value in. When they had gotten rid of that, we wanted to create a clone of it for our internal usage. We beefed it up and made it better for sales and marketing outcomes.
And then in the most recent period of time, Claude came out with Claude Projects,
which pretty much made the current version of Utari damn near redundant. Because the entire point of my agentic AI platform was we're able to control each individual worker, aka each agent,
and making it very easy
to have one agent with one specific function, one knowledge base, one set of instruction, one set of integrations.
The one differentiator currently that still makes it that more valuable so far from what I've seen is Cloud Projects has file limitations
and somewhat use case limitations, give or take, like, them being overwhelmed or in some instances,
their models get nerfed. Whereas what we've seen with Uttari, we obviously don't have file limitations.
We can add more knowledge to it. We still have more control and function over what a cloud project is, so it's still great. However,
that caused me to wanna pivot Utari. And so I took the tech of Utari, and I took the platform that we were hosting Jeremy AI on, and I essentially combined the two of them to help make an agentic version of Jeremy AI, which led me from how successful that was to offering it to others as well to create digital agentic clones of themselves.
From what I've seen, and you tie it specifically to, like, a personal brand or somebody in the info space or really just anybody with a high ticket product or service,
You having
a replicated version yourself
is so valuable. I'm a list a few use cases for where I've seen this. This is hands down the most revenue driven thing that I've seen. Number one, selling it as a standalone thing. As I said, ten days in so far of marketing this, we're at 38. I'll tell you the exact number, so we're on the same page. And it's like the exact actual number.
It's I'm at $38,489.29,
MRR. Validate what I'm saying so they know it's Yep. It is true. Okay. And then look at look at the ARR. The ARR is at 461,
$871.
Tell me the pennies.
36. There you go. So long story short, and this is this is on WAP, which our payment provider for for our Jeremy AI. So first of all, it's valuable in that regard. Okay? This, like my version of a digital clone that's agentic, we charge people right now while we sit here and film this 25 k a year to do that. So I paid for that within ten days. Okay? Now to be clear,
outside of the digital clone that we sell to buyers as a standalone offer, we add it to every single one of our education company offers and our agency offers that we've got. So the biggest issue with me scaling is that I can't scale real Jeremy.
So we've taken every single thing that we possibly could in my digital footprint. It's about a 90% clone of my actual digital footprint minus some sensitive personal information.
And we put it in that thing to fucking train on it. Okay? So it gives real time access to me. So picture this.
My staff right now have a question for real Jeremy, but real Jeremy sitting down filming a podcast
with organic Jeremy Moser. Okay? Think about this.
Who do they ask? Right? They ask AI Jeremy. And AI Jeremy spits out, dude, my marketing helper? My marketing helper the other day was building some funnel, and he has specific question on some random integration. He just popped in and asked AI Jeremy. He hit me up in a text, and I didn't get to it for like an hour and a half later. I was like, you still need this? And he's like, no. AI Jeremy helped me through it. So it's an internal tool.
That's fucking sweet. Okay? In addition to that, my agency clients get the same benefit. They have a specific question. Dude, I'm not I'm, like, so rarely real time accessible.
Like, you know how many people attempt to communicate with me in a day? I have time that I literally have to dedicate, like, two to three hours a day just to sitting down and catching up with everybody attempting to communicate with me. Staff, clients, random contractors,
people who wanna become clients or staff for fucking contracts, family shit. Right? It's like I'm very rarely ever real time. Jeremy AI is as real time as it gets. They could do phone calls with AI, Jeremy. They could actively text it literally through text message, telegram, or the platform that we hosted on. So clients get real time access. Students get real time access.
Sometimes people hit me up. Like, I had this guy in in the inner circle the other day. Think about this, man. This guy pays a couple grand a month to be in Jeremy's inner circle. He hits me up. He goes, by the way, I haven't been talking to you a lot. You should've been yapping my ass off with AI Jeremy.
Yeah. It saves AI it saves real Jeremy a fuckload of time. It's the best way I've seen so far to scale myself. Okay? So it makes me money. It helps with my internal team. It helps with external agency clients. It helps with external students. Okay? And those are just the specific use cases I can think of off the top of my head. Here's two more I can think of.
Instances of Jeremy AI. So on specific sales pages,
we have an instance of Jeremy AI that's trained on what it's selling and has a fraction of the overall brain that it's available that's been made available to it in that instance, and it sits there and it sells itself as people interact with it on the page. We have that in the little live chat function, and we have it as like an embedded instance, like just a big section on the page itself for people to interact with and actively use. I'll give you a great example of the funnel that I'm doing this with right now. Do you remember trust funnels? Have you ever heard of a trust funnel? Okay. Dude, a decade ago, I was talking about trust funnels, bro. A decade ago is how long this is. Here's what its original inception was, and here's how we've modified it for today's strategies. Okay? We have an opt in page to a lead magnet that's essentially saying,
hey. We've got a mini course for you where we're gonna give you temporary access to Jeremy AI and some very specific use cases that we're gonna help you solve with Jeremy AI and some short videos on it. And when you opt into this, you're gonna see a sequence of three videos that tell you exactly what to use the instance below the video for.
That's what that instance is trained on. Go ahead and opt in and start the process. So somebody opts into this. The very first page is just a headline, a video, and the instance embedded on the page.
And the video says, hey. Here's step one.
You're gonna go down there and use that instance, and you're gonna paste a screenshot of this. You're gonna paste a link to this. You're gonna ask it here, ask me these questions about me on this. And we're gonna let Jeremy AI do an analysis and get some data on you,
and it's gonna go back and forth with you a little bit and help you produce this outcome.
And then they go down there. They follow the instructions. That instance helps them with something that we call an moment,
something that makes them say, oh, shit. Like, this is actually valuable. And then we do it two more times after that. So we have a total of three videos with three separate instances that are all trained on these different things, and the knowledge carries through to all three of the instances, just to be clear. But each instance is defined for that specific function. Okay? We can have instances
like, as an example, let's say that there's a specific department in my organization
that I only wanna have trained to answer people on very specific
operational procedure.
Okay? Again, that instance can be specialized with knowledge for that. And, again, just a fraction of your total knowledge made available in your clone
for your people to talk to about that specific thing. So this can be used in in, again, front end, like, lead magnets to sell itself,
internal use cases, stand alone versions of these offers. And ask yourself this, like, 25 k a year is one of the most justifiable costs ever to clone yourself if you have the data to actually train it on, and it surprisingly doesn't take a lot. So in my world,
outside of selling that,
again, only reason I'm selling it is it's one of most fucking valuable things I've seen in AI period. Besides basic stuff, of course, like no no more hiring email marketers, Just set up a Claude project and then a Claude co work instance, and then just go off and, you know, fuck off and work out or something while your emails are being written and added to your CRM or, like, specific agents that go in and manage your sales pipeline and your CRM and make sure salespeople are actually being compliant with moving things around. Or give your salespeople agents to manage their CRMs for them instead of your salespeople having to do that. Um, have agents act as your middleman to your sales manager and the owner and give actual feedback of what happened on the sales calls that day from analyzing every single one of them. AI agents have been the most profound thing. So, again, that's why we have the Utari platforms, like, can use just agents.
And in addition to that, again, we've added the digital clone power of taking the Utari tech plus our our digital cloning software and just combining the two to give people a digital clone of themselves.
Those have been the most profound things that are both revenue driven, cost savings for me and my organization. That's that's where I've seen the most Unbelievable.
No. It's actually I think that's a sick a sick way to kinda look at it. I I just went I just almost passed out. I was just like, yeah, need to go get onto this. Yeah. No. Sweet. I'm telling you, it's it's the best use case of time that I've seen, because most people are using it from what I've seen in very surface level ways. Like, not not everybody has a lot of time for this, of course, since you're, like, busy and rich. Um, you're gonna have problems with
just spending all the time that's necessary to actually, like, keep up on all this shit.
I encourage everybody, like, we have this position hired in our our organization. It's a 6 k a month position.
It's a we call it's called the AI guy. I have no idea what the fuck else to call this guy right now. And this guy just, like, does all the random shit that we need him to do with internal tools or, like, internal agents or, like, tweaking certain things, like running our open cleansed instances that we had talked about there prior to shutting him down. Uh, just things like this, this random AI shit. It's like pay per usual, it's like paying for my full time trainer that we have now. Just we pay that guy for the fitness brain, we pay the AI guy for the AI brain. I try to I try to keep up on everything, of course. That's that's really my job, be the idea guy, the vision, and the money, um, versus like, don't be in the trenches, like, actually executing on all this stuff yourself. Just pay other people to execute it. Sick. Do you have any final words? I know we we we went for for quite a while here. Do have any final words? Anything you wanna say? I mean, I'd encourage everybody to stop lying to yourself, go get richer, really actively lock in on how important money truly is and and why it matters, and find some profound reasons that actually make you take some big risks again and get out of comfort,
and, uh, stop just being satisfied with the plateau that you've been at for a long period of time. It's very important that you break out of it. Most people think that you can go sideways
and sustain going sideways,
and it's not true. There's no such thing as going sideways. You're either contracting or expanding in real time. Any business that's going sideways is
unknowingly to them likely taking a bunch of actions that are actually contraction oriented actions. You have to take risks. You have to be willing to actually sacrifice comfort in a short period of time and some dollars,
which is generally where the comfort gets sacrificed, is through the sacrifice of dollars.
And, uh, risks, uh, actually go out there and get a fuckload richer than you are right now. It's always worth it. There's never a time where it's none. And, uh, I'll tell you this time and time again, everything we're sitting here talking about can be, you know, broken down and interpreted in whatever way that people want. But we've said it in a very particular way, in a very specific frame, and I'd encourage people learn it through that frame and through that perspective. There's a bunch of profound lessons that both you and I have shared here today for these folks, and, uh, the implementation of them is obviously where the results lay. So go out and take action on this stuff as well. Jeremy, I appreciate you. Yeah. It's awesome, man. Thanks for having me on. Now, for those of you who don't follow Jeremy already, obviously, please do. And if you've gotten any value out of this, you want me to sit more of the high high earners, high rollers in this space, you know, at a table and and kinda pick their brain, pick their experience in related to just scaling up info or, you know, building their personal brand, please drop a like, comment below. And if you haven't already, subscribe, and we'll see you in