WEBVTT 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:05.120 Claude Cowork is here. And if you understand how to use it, you're gonna be able to outperform 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:06.160 99% 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:07.600 of people on this planet. 00:00:07.840 --> 00:00:16.935 It is an easy way for you to use Claude Code. You might have heard of Claude Code. It's gone viral. But the problem is it feels technical. You have to go into the terminal 00:00:17.175 --> 00:00:23.575 and it's not fun for a lot of beginners. So Claude has come up with Cowork, and it's a brand new product that 00:00:23.815 --> 00:00:40.170 harnesses the power of Claude Code in a UI that is simple, that anyone could use, that your dad can use, your mom could use, hey, even you can use. So in this episode, I brought on Boris, the maker of this product. I'm so excited that he shows you the best practices 00:00:40.425 --> 00:00:41.785 for how to use 00:00:42.025 --> 00:00:44.505 Claude Cowork, and at the end, 00:00:44.825 --> 00:00:51.065 how he sets up his Claude code to get the most out of it. You're gonna love this episode. 00:00:59.890 --> 00:01:07.170 We are lucky. We've got Boris. He's the creator of Claude Code, and I would say the cocreator of Claude Cowork today. 00:01:07.170 --> 00:01:22.585 And today, what I wanna get accomplished is everyone's talking about Cowork, and I wanna best understand what are the use cases, how can we get started, what are some non obvious ways I can use it. So Boris, thank you so much for coming on the show. And 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.800 I have one question for you. By the end of this episode, 00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:28.720 what are people gonna get out of it? 00:01:29.520 --> 00:01:30.320 Oh. 00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:32.480 I think people are gonna 00:01:32.720 --> 00:01:35.120 start to get some more ideas for how to use co work. 00:01:35.835 --> 00:01:41.195 And hopefully they're gonna tweet about it and maybe they'll even reach out to me so I could learn how they 00:01:41.355 --> 00:01:43.915 wanna use CoWork. It's funny. I feel like 00:01:44.955 --> 00:01:52.530 QuadCode from the beginning, it was sort of built to be it wasn't actually built to be a product at all. But when we first started thinking about it as a product, 00:01:52.770 --> 00:01:55.250 we thought that the thing people would use it for is coding. 00:01:55.730 --> 00:02:03.810 But we've learned very quickly that people didn't just use it for coding. They used it for, like, all sorts of stuff. So I I kind of feel the journey of Cloud Code has been very surprising. 00:02:04.395 --> 00:02:14.795 And I have been learning so much just watching how people use the product and how they abuse it and kinda like what what they actually want to use it for and even if it's not designed for that. 00:02:15.115 --> 00:02:21.240 So I kinda feel the same way about Coworka. Know, I have some ideas about what people are gonna use it for. I kind of view these as hypotheses. 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:32.360 And so, you know, happy to talk about it. Happy to maybe I'll do a quick demo to to show you kind of some of the some of the things that we use it for. But I think that it's gonna be pretty surprising, 00:02:32.885 --> 00:02:34.885 and I hope that I will be surprised 00:02:35.365 --> 00:02:37.685 when we see how people actually use it in the wild. 00:02:38.005 --> 00:03:05.155 Yeah. I think that's always the case with with platforms especially if you think about it like when when the makers of the App Store created the App Store, you know, the the initial apps was, like, you know, a beer drinking app and, like, a bunch of random apps like that. Did they know that, you know, Uber was gonna come out of that, DoorDash was gonna come out of that, TikTok was gonna come out of that? Probably not. So I think that what's really cool about the phase that we are in right now with Claude Code and also Claude Cowork is 00:03:05.475 --> 00:03:08.035 we're all figuring it out at the same time. 00:03:08.915 --> 00:03:09.555 And 00:03:09.795 --> 00:03:14.355 none of us, including the creator, have all the answers, but I agree with you. Like, what's 00:03:14.940 --> 00:03:18.460 it's it's a good time to be sharing some you know, sharing 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:23.260 what's working, what's not working. And, you know, if you're open to it, let's let's 00:03:23.260 --> 00:03:25.180 screen share and and get our hands dirty. 00:03:25.580 --> 00:03:28.780 Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. So what are we looking at right now, Boris? 00:03:29.285 --> 00:03:33.365 Yeah. So this is the this is the cloud desktop app. So you just download it. 00:03:34.005 --> 00:03:36.165 Cowork is only available for Mac OS, 00:03:36.565 --> 00:03:38.005 you know, Windows coming soon. 00:03:38.885 --> 00:03:46.300 There's a few different tabs in the desktop app. So there's the chat, that's the default. There's co work, that's the new one, and there's code, and that's just quad code. 00:03:47.740 --> 00:04:06.785 Co work under the hood, it's actually just quad code. And so, you know, the agent that makes quad code awesome, we call it the quad agent. It's also available as the quad agent SDK, you can use it programmatically. You can you know, all all sorts of companies build all sorts of cool things on top of it. We actually use that same exact SDK directly in Corework. 00:04:07.505 --> 00:04:15.270 So it's like, you know, it's pretty cool. It's just kinda one way across everything. We have the best agent, have the best agentic model, might as well use it. 00:04:17.270 --> 00:04:30.305 And so what I'll do is just to kinda show how how to use this thing. And, you know, like, when I think about agentic AI, this word agentic has sort of lost all meaning because it it's just, like, used so much. 00:04:30.705 --> 00:04:48.310 So I I feel like probably a lot of listeners have heard the word agent, but they don't actually know what it means or, you know, they think it's, like, some, like, cool AI or or something. But it it actually has, a very specific meaning in the AI world, which I think has kind of been lost because a lot of the products that people have released in cold agentic in the past are not actually agentic. 00:04:48.790 --> 00:04:52.550 And so, like, when you think about the AI products that everyone's used, you know, like, obviously, Cloud Code, 00:04:53.345 --> 00:04:58.705 chat based apps where you just chat with app kind of back and forth, send some messages. 00:04:59.025 --> 00:05:02.225 The biggest difference with agents is it can take action. 00:05:02.785 --> 00:05:09.610 And it's not just text and it's not just like web searching, but it can actually use tools on your computer. It can it can interact with the world. 00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:12.730 And so for Anthropic from the very beginning, 00:05:13.130 --> 00:05:17.290 since before our models were good, like before like, 00:05:17.450 --> 00:05:19.690 you know, like Cloud three or whatever, 00:05:20.010 --> 00:05:24.875 this is a thing that we wanted to get really good at because we felt that it's very important. 00:05:25.675 --> 00:05:26.475 And so 00:05:26.875 --> 00:05:40.050 from the start, wanted our models to be really great at coding and then really great at tool use and then really great at computer use. So it's it's kinda cool like, you know, the last year seeing how people have been hacking quad code, it's pretty obvious this is kind of the place that we should go. 00:05:41.330 --> 00:05:50.530 And so for people that have used quad code, you know, none of this will be, you know, like too surprising. These are actually things they can do. So really what we're trying to do is make this something that everyone can use in a way that's safe. 00:05:51.655 --> 00:05:53.335 And so what I'm gonna do is 00:05:53.815 --> 00:05:58.775 you know, here on my desktop, I have a I have this like receipts folder. I have a few receipts in it. 00:05:59.735 --> 00:06:01.655 So I'm just gonna give 00:06:01.815 --> 00:06:03.655 co work access to my desktop. 00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:12.540 And you you have to pick like which specific folders I can see. By default, they can't see anything. So you have to kind of opt in to see to let it, uh, access specific folders. 00:06:13.340 --> 00:06:14.700 And so I'm gonna say, 00:06:16.275 --> 00:06:20.035 you um, know, I can say, I have a receipts folder. 00:06:21.875 --> 00:06:24.115 Can you rename the files 00:06:25.315 --> 00:06:28.355 to match the dates on the receipts? 00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:33.900 So so I think one interesting thing is when you're using CoWork, it's really 00:06:34.780 --> 00:06:35.260 like, 00:06:35.660 --> 00:06:43.420 it's operating with your files. Like, that's a that's a big sort of mindset shift that people should have. It's almost like your operating system. Is that right? 00:06:44.205 --> 00:06:48.605 Yeah. Exactly. It's like it it has your files, so the ones that you give it access to. 00:06:48.925 --> 00:06:51.965 But actually, the even cooler thing is that it can use all sorts of tools. 00:06:53.325 --> 00:07:03.660 And so files actually is like you know, that's like that's useful, but it's not it's not like that cool. What's actually much more interesting is it can generate files for you. So, you know, it can make like presentations and things like this. 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:06.620 It can interact with any tool over MCP, 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:09.820 and it has built in support for Chrome based browsers. 00:07:10.460 --> 00:07:13.100 So it can actually control your browser to do to do stuff. 00:07:14.835 --> 00:07:18.115 And so I'll I'll kinda show that a little bit. So this is kind of the first step. 00:07:18.515 --> 00:07:25.955 When you're first getting started with CoWork, the thing I recommend is, you know, do exactly what I just did. You know, dismount the folder, give CoWork access to it, 00:07:26.690 --> 00:07:31.410 and just, like, play around with it. It's it's super useful for cleaning up files, organizing things like that. 00:07:32.290 --> 00:07:34.850 And so here, it it found these four receipts that I have. 00:07:35.650 --> 00:07:37.330 It's asking me if 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:41.890 one one of the receipts, I guess, is missing a date. So should I just rename the others? 00:07:42.745 --> 00:07:44.025 So I'll just say, 00:07:45.865 --> 00:07:48.985 know, for one, it's we'll say it's, like, up to you. 00:07:50.105 --> 00:07:52.025 And then for two, I'll say, 00:07:52.345 --> 00:07:52.985 don't rename it. 00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:56.920 And we actually call this 00:07:57.560 --> 00:07:58.840 reverse solicitation 00:07:58.840 --> 00:08:04.920 in the AI world. So so what this means is when the model is unsure about something, it's gonna ask you for clarification. 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.320 And we we've sort of taught the model to be pretty good at this. So instead of assuming 00:08:09.885 --> 00:08:12.045 it's unsure about something, it's just gonna ask you. 00:08:13.565 --> 00:08:16.285 And so yeah. In this case, so it renamed 00:08:16.285 --> 00:08:22.205 the receipts. So I'm just gonna open this up to double check. Yeah. Cool. And so the receipts were named a little bit better organized. 00:08:23.940 --> 00:08:26.420 And so maybe what I can try next is 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:29.380 let's, put this in a spreadsheet. 00:08:30.420 --> 00:08:33.060 So it takes control of your computer, 00:08:33.620 --> 00:08:37.060 basically, in that sense, right, if you allow it to take control? 00:08:37.785 --> 00:08:42.425 Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And so we put so much work into kind of safety and 00:08:42.745 --> 00:08:45.065 making sure that as this happens, you accidentally 00:08:45.385 --> 00:08:47.945 shoot yourself in the foot and delete files or whatever. 00:08:48.665 --> 00:08:55.250 So there's just a huge amount of work that went into this. And it kind of starts at the model side where, you know, for Anthropic, 00:08:55.410 --> 00:08:56.850 from the very beginning, 00:08:57.330 --> 00:09:00.130 we were the AI safety lab and not the reason that we exist. 00:09:00.690 --> 00:09:15.005 And so there's a lot of work into, like, alignment and mechanistic interpretability and kinda all these ideas to to make sure that the model does what you want in a way that's safe, kind of at the model layer. And this literally means, like, studying the neurons, kind of the same way that you would study 00:09:15.565 --> 00:09:17.805 neurons in, you know, like, in a in a human. 00:09:18.445 --> 00:09:21.005 And so we you know, you can, like, identify structures, 00:09:21.005 --> 00:09:24.490 and you can kinda study in a very scientific way as a black box also 00:09:24.810 --> 00:09:27.210 to make sure that it's safe. So this is called alignment. 00:09:28.330 --> 00:09:36.490 And then we do a whole bunch of other stuff. So there's actually a whole virtual machine running under the hood, and this is just to make sure that any actions taken are safe and don't affect your broader system. 00:09:37.665 --> 00:09:42.385 And then as of last week, there's also deletion protection. So if you accidentally delete something, 00:09:42.865 --> 00:09:45.265 then you're gonna get prompted first. 00:09:45.505 --> 00:09:54.380 So the model can kinda make sure that that's actually a thing that you wanna do. Obviously, also as we start interacting with the Internet, something like prompt injection is quite scary. 00:09:54.620 --> 00:10:11.385 And so we built in a lot of protections against that. Obviously, you know, it's it's not perfect, it's something we're iterating on. But this is also part of the reason that we released this pretty early is we wanna see how people use it. And a big part of making models safe isn't just studying them on a lab, but studying them in the wild 00:10:11.705 --> 00:10:13.145 to see how it's useful. 00:10:13.545 --> 00:10:16.265 And so this was like pretty cool. Right? So we we have this folder. 00:10:17.390 --> 00:10:23.230 First it kinda renamed all all my receipts. I asked it to make a sheet. It just made the spreadsheet, so it's already here. 00:10:24.270 --> 00:10:28.110 Maybe I don't want a spreadsheet. Maybe I I want like a Google sheet. So actually 00:10:28.925 --> 00:10:31.965 That's so interesting. Right? Because, like, I think 00:10:32.845 --> 00:10:39.165 where people stumble with tools like Cowork and Cloud Code is because you can do anything, 00:10:39.725 --> 00:10:43.405 making it a of course, that makes sense, making it a Google Sheet. 00:10:44.100 --> 00:10:44.900 But, like, 00:10:45.300 --> 00:10:54.660 that's where it's so interesting that you can you really can treat it like a teammate in that sense. Right? Like, go and do this thing. The world is your oyster. Woah. What is happening right now? 00:10:55.140 --> 00:10:56.980 Yeah. So it's like it's opening the browser. 00:10:57.795 --> 00:11:04.195 And so here it's gonna ask you for permission. Just for this demo, gonna say always allow for the site. But you can just say allow 00:11:04.195 --> 00:11:05.555 once or deny. 00:11:05.635 --> 00:11:07.395 And so Quad's taken the wheel. 00:11:07.875 --> 00:11:09.155 It's making a spreadsheet for me. 00:11:09.920 --> 00:11:16.720 This is gonna sort of take a while. And so this is one of the things that we're iterating on is making this kind of computer use a lot faster. 00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:17.840 I I remember 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.560 man, this is when I first joined Anthropic and this was maybe 00:11:23.565 --> 00:11:28.605 this is like Sonnet 3.6 or I forgot what the what we called it, like Sonnet 3.5 new. 00:11:29.085 --> 00:11:34.685 And that was the first model that I think we really started to crack computers. And I remember I was sitting with my team 00:11:35.085 --> 00:11:40.860 and there was literally a researcher that ran into the room in the movies and was like, oh my god, Quad knows how to use computers. 00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:42.140 And 00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:45.020 we just had to order a pizza and 00:11:45.260 --> 00:11:54.165 it picked a pineapple pizza and then ordered it and it asked us for a credit card. And then we we got that delivered to the office. But it was tedious. It took like an hour or something for it to click around. 00:11:55.045 --> 00:11:59.765 And since then, we've been improving the model's ability to use a computer. 00:12:00.245 --> 00:12:05.410 And so you can kinda see that here. So here the, you know, Quad is typing and it's interacting with the spreadsheet. 00:12:05.410 --> 00:12:10.450 And it can see what's on the screen. It can interact with it. Anything that's in your browser, it it can just use. 00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:13.330 And could it use, 00:12:13.890 --> 00:12:15.090 like, email 00:12:15.965 --> 00:12:25.725 know, let's say we wanted to send this to somebody, you know, finance team. Like, can you maybe we'll get into it later, but, you know, with things like connections and MCPs, 00:12:26.845 --> 00:12:27.565 is that possible? 00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:35.140 Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Okay. So let's, like, let's make this, like, kind of a nice spreadsheet because we don't wanna send, like, a badly formatted spreadsheet to our coworker. 00:12:35.460 --> 00:12:36.100 But 00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:46.205 let's make it nice, and then we can ask Claude to send it. And so here it's kinda cool. It's, like, you know, it's it's still early days and so there's some, like, formatting mistakes. It didn't paste it exactly correctly, 00:12:46.365 --> 00:12:50.205 but it noticed it. So notice that, you know, it's not actually split correctly, 00:12:50.525 --> 00:12:52.205 and so now it's trying to format it. 00:12:53.805 --> 00:12:54.845 So kinda notice this. 00:12:55.970 --> 00:13:04.210 And, yeah, Greg, like, to your point, it's funny. These, like, these use cases and the way that people are gonna use these tools, like I said at the start, it's gonna be so surprising. 00:13:04.610 --> 00:13:10.450 I'm just so excited to see how people use it. And sort of the crazy thing about them is they're so general purpose. 00:13:10.865 --> 00:13:22.465 It's like it's sort of like a computer itself or like the Internet or something. Like like you said, like, when when you first, like, had an iPhone, like, you would never have predicted that, you know, there would be an Uber app at some point. But, you know, that's that's what happened. 00:13:23.105 --> 00:13:26.385 And I sort of feel like we're at the beginning of that, but for for agents. 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:28.280 Yeah. I think 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:33.160 it it it's it sounds so obvious in hindsight. 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:35.720 Like, of course, you have a phone with GPS. 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.440 Of course. Right? You're gonna you're gonna have things like Uber and DoorDash and stuff like that. 00:13:41.160 --> 00:13:41.640 But 00:13:42.465 --> 00:13:50.065 I feel like, yes, you're right. I think, like, what I'm trying to figure out in my mind like, I'm watching this and I'm like, this is really cool, but I'm thinking about, like, okay. 00:13:50.545 --> 00:13:53.985 You know, how do I audit, like, my entire company? 00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:59.180 Like, what are all the tasks that the company is doing? How are they interacting with files? 00:14:00.060 --> 00:14:02.220 And how are they using the Internet? 00:14:02.620 --> 00:14:04.300 And how are they sending things? 00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:14.805 And then what are opportunities I can use to, like, make my team and also my life more productive. That's what's going through my head right now. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. That's a great way to think about it. 00:14:15.445 --> 00:14:20.405 And by the way, something that's kinda cool is, you know, as this is running, I'm just gonna make a new task and do something else. 00:14:22.280 --> 00:14:23.800 So, you know, what are 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:26.840 some cool episodes 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:28.520 of startup? 00:14:38.015 --> 00:14:44.815 Cool. So while while this one's running, we can, like, we can let this one go too. And I I often have a bunch of tasks running in parallel too. 00:14:46.655 --> 00:14:54.420 But, yeah, that's exactly it. It's like you should just think about, like, what what's all, like, the tedious stuff that you do every day? And you can just throw all of this stuff to co work. 00:14:54.820 --> 00:15:00.180 And I I feel like this happened for coding over the last year because, of course, engineers and programmers 00:15:00.180 --> 00:15:01.620 are the earliest adopters. 00:15:02.020 --> 00:15:08.005 So when the tooling first became able to do that kind of work, engineers adopted it first. But 00:15:08.645 --> 00:15:10.325 now now this is coming 00:15:11.605 --> 00:15:33.490 now this is possible for everyone else to use too. So that's super exciting. And when we talk to engineers about the way they like to use quad code, they run a bunch of quads in parallel. They use it to automate the tedious stuff. And I don't know, man. Like, for me, this is just the most fun I've ever had as an engineer because I get to do the stuff that I enjoy and I just feel so productive because quad does all the, you know, the stuff that I didn't wanna do. 00:15:35.275 --> 00:15:39.755 Okay. So now now we have this, like, we have the spreadsheet. This looks alright. It's not too bad. 00:15:40.635 --> 00:15:42.075 The data looks correct. 00:15:43.915 --> 00:15:45.995 You know, one thing that's missing though is 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.640 well, we we can add maybe like the totals, but I think for the sake of the demo, 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.320 what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna see if it can email it. 00:15:56.640 --> 00:16:01.360 So just reading for audio listeners. Can you open Gmail and send the sheet to Amy? 00:16:01.920 --> 00:16:03.200 And 00:16:04.605 --> 00:16:05.485 wow. 00:16:05.805 --> 00:16:07.885 Yeah. So I'm gonna say always continue. 00:16:09.165 --> 00:16:10.605 So how is it gonna know 00:16:11.005 --> 00:16:14.525 it's Amy. Right? It's gonna pull up the contacts within 00:16:15.005 --> 00:16:15.805 Gmail? 00:16:16.045 --> 00:16:17.085 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 00:16:19.470 --> 00:16:23.550 Yeah. That that's exactly it. It's gonna interact with it the same way that, 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:26.510 you know, anyone else would interact with a computer. 00:16:26.830 --> 00:16:30.270 And it's the same thing. It can it can, like, click stuff. It can read the screen. 00:16:31.165 --> 00:16:42.845 Okay. So compose window open. Let me type Amy. So you have, like, multiple when you're when you're, like, locked in, so to speak, you're kinda you have multiple of these windows open at or multiple virtual 00:16:42.845 --> 00:16:44.365 machines open at at the same time. 00:16:45.130 --> 00:16:49.610 Yeah. Yeah. I usually have a bunch of these, you know, like five or five or 10 or whatever. 00:16:50.730 --> 00:16:54.570 And so we can see the models, you know, trying to interact with this. 00:16:54.970 --> 00:16:56.410 And so it filled out Amy. 00:16:57.305 --> 00:17:04.185 And you know, by the way, just so because this is, you know, going on YouTube, you know you're gonna have some haters in the comments, so we're just gonna address them right now. 00:17:04.745 --> 00:17:10.825 Someone in the comments is gonna be like, but that's so slow. I can do it faster myself or something. 00:17:11.145 --> 00:17:11.945 What is your reaction? 00:17:12.520 --> 00:17:14.040 Of course you can. Yeah. 00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:21.560 Could definitely do this much faster. And it's actually the same thing for a lot of quad code. Right? Like, especially at the beginning, I I could do it much faster. 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:24.360 But but I think sort of two things happen. 00:17:25.415 --> 00:17:26.615 One is that 00:17:26.775 --> 00:17:31.655 the model just gets better at doing it quickly, and this is just something you would I I would expect over time. 00:17:31.975 --> 00:17:42.050 But then the second thing is because you can do multiple things in parallel, it's actually a big time saver. And so usually my workflow is I'll kick off like a few different tasks in parallel, 00:17:42.290 --> 00:17:46.450 and I'll just kinda like go back and forth between them and kinda tend to my quads, 00:17:46.610 --> 00:17:54.585 make sure they're in a good place, see if they have any questions or anything like that. So it's really a different kind of workflow. Like, I feel like now is the age of like kinda multi 00:17:54.585 --> 00:17:57.225 multi clotting, of of parallelism, 00:17:57.225 --> 00:18:03.945 of like not going super deep on stuff, but kinda being more of a generalist and more tending tending to your clots. 00:18:04.425 --> 00:18:07.305 And so this was this other chat that we kicked off earlier. 00:18:08.345 --> 00:18:11.360 And in this case, it sort of did some research, 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:26.835 so that's pretty cool. So it didn't just go to, you know, like startup ideas podcast website, but it searched the Internet, checked a bunch of different places, checked like someone's notes about it. Yeah. Ten ten rules for for quad code. Yeah. I'll find that interesting too. 00:18:27.235 --> 00:18:28.595 And 00:18:29.475 --> 00:18:32.515 let's see. So it seems like this is 00:18:32.915 --> 00:18:34.355 the email is probably all drafted. 00:18:36.560 --> 00:18:40.240 The draft has been saved. Yep. Please send. 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:52.595 And I also use this for, like, Slack too. Like, a pretty common use case I've been doing maybe a couple times a week is I have a spreadsheet where we track all the team's work for the month or for the week or whatever. 00:18:52.995 --> 00:19:02.275 And instead of having to bug everyone on the team to fill out the status, what I do is I ask co work to look at the spreadsheet. Any column that's not filled out, just message the engineer on Slack. 00:19:02.915 --> 00:19:10.010 And it does that really well. So, you know, I I just ask it to do that, and then I go get a coffee, and I I don't have to do that anymore. 00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:22.170 Do you think that co work is gonna be the gateway drug to Claude Code? Because for a lot of beginners, nontechnical people, Claude Code feels a bit overwhelming. But when I'm when I'm watching you do this, this feels, 00:19:23.105 --> 00:19:24.465 you know, approachable. 00:19:25.905 --> 00:19:28.865 Yeah. I I mean, I think it's, like, probably two kinds of users. 00:19:29.425 --> 00:19:31.425 Well, and and it's also it's funny. 00:19:31.585 --> 00:19:34.065 QuadCode is built originally in a terminal. 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.080 And nowadays 00:19:36.080 --> 00:19:39.520 it's available in the Quad mobile app. It's available on the website, 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:45.440 in the IDE, on Slack, on GitHub. So nowadays it's available everywhere, but originally it was built in a terminal. 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:58.125 And I never thought that most engineers would want to use a terminal. Because, you know, it's scary. It's like this thing that's sort of hidden away on the computer. Like, you know, only the most hardcore engineers want to actually work in a terminal day in and day out. 00:19:58.445 --> 00:20:12.100 And so it's surprising to me that most engineers wanted to use it. What's even more surprising is a lot of non engineers started to use it, and that was the craziest thing. And, you know, looking at, like, the sales team at Anthropic, like the GTM team, half of them use quad code every week. 00:20:12.580 --> 00:20:14.740 And looking at other nontechnical 00:20:14.740 --> 00:20:16.740 people at Anthropic, like designers, 00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:19.540 product managers, data scientists, pretty much all of them use quad code every day. 00:20:20.305 --> 00:20:22.305 So that that's been like pretty surprising. 00:20:22.945 --> 00:20:24.385 But my hypothesis 00:20:24.385 --> 00:20:27.745 is what they would prefer is actually something a little bit more like this, 00:20:28.225 --> 00:20:33.025 where you don't have to deal with a terminal and all that kind of thing. You have a you have an nice UI 00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:38.300 because you don't need access to bash and all that kind of stuff because the the model will just do it for you. 00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:42.540 Yeah. I think what I would love with something like this is, 00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:51.595 you know, automating some of these processes. It's like instead of doing one offs, it's like, anytime this happens, I want you to do this. 00:20:51.995 --> 00:20:52.635 That 00:20:52.875 --> 00:20:53.915 that's my dream. 00:20:54.555 --> 00:21:01.355 Yeah. It's a cool idea. I'm I'm excited to see, like, how it's tied into skills also. I think it's something we're we're thinking about. We haven't quite figured out yet. 00:21:03.040 --> 00:21:11.280 Yeah. Because like a skill, what what is it? It's essentially kind of a repeatable way to do something. And so you saw that a little bit earlier up in this conversation 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:12.880 where 00:21:13.040 --> 00:21:15.120 when Quad was generating the spreadsheet. 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:22.085 I don't know if you saw it, but it actually loaded the skill. And so we prepackaged the skill for Excel and that's the way that Quad knows how to do it. 00:21:22.965 --> 00:21:26.245 And so if you have some weird file format, don't know, if you work with AutoCAD 00:21:26.245 --> 00:21:27.445 or if you work with 00:21:28.005 --> 00:21:29.125 Salesforce, whatever 00:21:29.445 --> 00:21:30.565 it is, the tool 00:21:30.805 --> 00:21:34.890 that you use, just make a skill and then Claude can can do it for you. 00:21:35.290 --> 00:21:36.810 That's interesting. So 00:21:37.610 --> 00:21:39.690 if you have more skills, 00:21:40.010 --> 00:21:40.810 co work, 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:49.175 and you're asking it, you know, to do things related to those skills, co work is more likely to use those skills. So you might be able to get a 00:21:49.975 --> 00:21:53.015 better outcome out of co work if you, 00:21:54.055 --> 00:21:57.335 you know, do some upfront work to actually create some skills. 00:21:57.655 --> 00:21:58.695 I think so. 00:21:58.935 --> 00:21:59.175 Yeah. 00:22:00.090 --> 00:22:00.890 Wow. 00:22:01.050 --> 00:22:03.290 Yeah. I think I think that's exactly right. 00:22:03.610 --> 00:22:06.810 Yeah. Okay. Well, that's good to know. And and, you know, 00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:10.570 what else do we need to know about co work? Because I know there's, 00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:12.410 you know, there's, you know, extensions, 00:22:13.435 --> 00:22:19.435 there's there's skills. Like, walk us through some of is there anything else that, you know, we need to know 00:22:19.995 --> 00:22:22.795 in order to get the most out of of the product? 00:22:23.435 --> 00:22:25.915 You know, we we try to build core work just to be pretty simple. 00:22:26.590 --> 00:22:30.430 When we think about the different audiences we serve, for an audience like engineers, 00:22:30.750 --> 00:22:36.990 they don't actually like simple. Simple is is good by default, but engineers love to hack their tools. They love to customize their tools. 00:22:38.030 --> 00:22:47.845 So that's actually really important. So quad code is just like the most customizable coding agent. It has just like so many extension points. There's like there's skills. There's custom agents. 00:22:48.165 --> 00:22:49.365 There there's hooks. 00:22:49.605 --> 00:23:03.170 There's an insane amount of configuration and settings that you can set. You know, there there's a a very sophisticated permission system. So there's all sorts of ways to customize it. And this is because we know every engineer works different, and everyone has different preferences. 00:23:03.570 --> 00:23:08.050 Everyone uses a different tech stack. Everyone uses a different editor. Everyone use a different OS. 00:23:08.365 --> 00:23:10.525 We So wanted to make sure it's really customizable. 00:23:11.005 --> 00:23:13.965 For some of my co work, I think we're kinda starting in the opposite direction 00:23:14.205 --> 00:23:16.285 and just keep it really simple at the start. 00:23:16.845 --> 00:23:27.390 And so if you use co work, I would probably not customize too much. Like, if you have co work installed and you install the Chrome extension, that's pretty much all you need and it'll do everything else for you. 00:23:27.790 --> 00:23:34.670 I think over time as you find yourself using maybe software that Core Work is not great at, like, that's the point to think about writing skills. 00:23:35.395 --> 00:23:38.195 But that wouldn't be my starting point. Just start simple. 00:23:38.435 --> 00:23:40.195 See how it works, see what's useful. 00:23:40.835 --> 00:23:44.115 And I think also the other thing, it's just it's so early. 00:23:44.515 --> 00:23:47.795 This feels to me a lot like Quad Code a year ago 00:23:48.450 --> 00:23:54.050 where we released it before it was early. It was not very good yet. It was super buggy. 00:23:54.210 --> 00:23:57.890 It kinda barely worked. The model was not very good at coding a year ago. 00:23:58.210 --> 00:23:59.970 And it kinda feels like that to me, 00:24:00.370 --> 00:24:00.850 but 00:24:01.330 --> 00:24:08.985 I think Corework is actually a little bit better than QuadCode was when we first released it because it's actually useful. And it's already a thing that I use every day. 00:24:09.385 --> 00:24:09.945 And, 00:24:10.185 --> 00:24:17.640 yeah, I think in the first week, we've we've seen so much more growth. It's it's been like a multiple of the growth that we saw with QuadCode the first week. 00:24:18.280 --> 00:24:22.280 So that that's very exciting. It it seems like this is something that people are already finding useful. 00:24:22.520 --> 00:24:25.840 You know, we're recording this, what is it, January 00:24:25.840 --> 00:24:26.680 2026. 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.957 If we if we come back here in twelve months, it's January 00:24:30.957 --> 00:24:32.115 2027, 00:24:32.595 --> 00:24:47.690 how do you think people are gonna be using Cowork? You know? I know you don't have a crystal ball exactly, but what sort of use cases, and and what is what does the product look like? Like, describe the world in January 2027 with with co work. 00:24:48.010 --> 00:24:51.370 Oh, jeez, Greg. I I plan in, a one week timeline. 00:24:51.610 --> 00:24:52.410 The 00:24:52.490 --> 00:25:00.490 model is just changing so fast. It's it's so hard. And I just feel like, you know, like, the model is it's it's advancing exponentially and just, my puny 00:25:00.705 --> 00:25:05.025 human meat brain, like, can't grapple with exponential. It's like we think in linear. And 00:25:05.505 --> 00:25:09.185 so I think this kind of exponential is just very, very difficult to plan around. 00:25:10.865 --> 00:25:12.465 Okay. But if if I had to speculate, 00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:15.560 a year ago, 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:16.920 I made 00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:23.800 and I think Dario also made this prediction that by the end of the year, people wouldn't be writing code anymore. And I think that was like sometime mid 00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:25.160 last 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:25.640 year or something. 00:25:27.095 --> 00:25:32.055 I code every day. I ship 200, 300 PRs every month or something like that. 00:25:33.015 --> 00:25:34.455 And in the last two months, 00:25:35.175 --> 00:25:43.170 Quad Code has written a 100% of my code. I haven't written a single line by hand. And this is something like I also predicted this way 00:25:43.170 --> 00:25:44.930 back middle of last year. 00:25:45.650 --> 00:25:47.970 It was sort of not intuitive 00:25:48.530 --> 00:25:49.410 because 00:25:49.410 --> 00:25:53.410 if you just think about kind of the experience at the time and you trace it linearly, 00:25:53.765 --> 00:25:58.965 there's just no way that the model would be at that point. So you really have to kind of believe an exponential 00:25:59.365 --> 00:26:15.110 and just literally like plot it out and kind of follow the way that the line the line goes. That's the only way that you would have predicted this. And it was just it was absolutely right. And so I think for coding, this is a work this is something that we're gonna start to see in more and more places for more and more kinds of code that the model is able to just do all of it. 00:26:15.670 --> 00:26:17.910 And when we think about co work, I think it's 00:26:18.150 --> 00:26:20.070 somewhat similar. I think it's a little bit earlier. 00:26:21.055 --> 00:26:24.575 And I think what we're gonna see is for all this kind of tedious tasks like 00:26:24.735 --> 00:26:25.775 connecting 00:26:25.775 --> 00:26:29.855 app a and b or kind of shuffling data back and forth or whatever, 00:26:30.095 --> 00:26:34.095 the model is just gonna be able to do it. And it's gonna get increasingly good at it. 00:26:34.950 --> 00:26:37.350 This is I think in some ways it's a little scary. 00:26:37.670 --> 00:26:40.150 And in some ways I think it's really exciting because 00:26:40.550 --> 00:26:46.150 you don't have to spend your time on this toil some work anymore. You can just focus on the work that you enjoy. 00:26:47.315 --> 00:26:53.795 And also everyone, I think, just becomes much much more productive because you have an army of plots that that can do this. 00:26:54.195 --> 00:26:59.395 Okay. I like that feature. I like that feature a lot. It's a hard question. I it's a hard question 00:27:00.350 --> 00:27:08.030 when you it's sort of like the genie's out of the bottle, and it's hard to predict, like, where the genie's gonna go. So I believe that 00:27:08.350 --> 00:27:08.990 co 00:27:09.310 --> 00:27:12.670 coworker is the gateway drug to clot code. I think that 00:27:12.910 --> 00:27:14.030 people are going to 00:27:15.435 --> 00:27:17.515 start using it, and 00:27:17.915 --> 00:27:20.555 they're gonna develop, like, vertical use cases, 00:27:20.715 --> 00:27:23.995 like, for whatever it is their business is. Like, you mentioned AutoCAD. 00:27:24.075 --> 00:27:27.995 Like, you probably weren't thinking about AutoCAD when you were dev helping develop Cobalt 00:27:28.395 --> 00:27:29.115 Cowork. 00:27:29.355 --> 00:27:32.710 So I think there's gonna be, like, these verticals, 00:27:33.110 --> 00:27:35.350 um, and I think 00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:37.350 I think that 00:27:37.670 --> 00:27:41.670 Cowork is gonna be similar to, like, vertical job boards where 00:27:41.670 --> 00:27:45.910 there's very specific roles that you can hire to people. And I do think that there's gonna be this 00:27:47.085 --> 00:27:49.005 combination between skills 00:27:49.005 --> 00:27:53.165 and these, like, digital teammates that you're gonna, quote unquote, hire. 00:27:53.565 --> 00:27:59.485 Yeah. That's that's super interesting. Maybe we should make a bet and just see where it pans out in the year. But, you know, I I have no idea. 00:27:59.965 --> 00:28:00.365 But 00:28:00.800 --> 00:28:07.760 it's it's definitely interesting to speculate because I I I just feel like the way this technology goes is so different than past technology waves. 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.760 It's sort of similar to the Internet. It's sort of similar to computers, 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:16.080 you know, like maybe like telephones or something before that, but the speed is just so much faster. 00:28:16.595 --> 00:28:20.915 And because it's kind of piggybacking on all of this, like, the Internet could not exist without telephones 00:28:21.075 --> 00:28:27.715 telephones and kind of like phone lines being everywhere. You couldn't have dial up without it. You know, mobile phones couldn't exist without the Internet existing. 00:28:29.140 --> 00:28:37.460 So it's sort of like every layer of the stack, it just gets more and more powerful and it spreads more quickly. And so it's like on the back of all of this that AI can exist. 00:28:38.740 --> 00:28:41.860 And, yeah, it's it's just gonna be very exciting to see to see where it goes. 00:28:42.565 --> 00:28:45.685 I wanna shift gears just for the last ten minutes 00:28:46.485 --> 00:28:48.485 because we mentioned Claude Code. 00:28:49.045 --> 00:28:51.525 You had a you had a post that went absolutely 00:28:51.765 --> 00:28:55.365 viral. I think you know what post I'm gonna talk about. 99,000 00:28:55.365 --> 00:28:56.325 bookmarks, 00:28:56.565 --> 00:28:57.285 which is crazy. 00:28:58.250 --> 00:29:00.330 And I'm gonna share my screen. 00:29:00.730 --> 00:29:04.490 I wanna go over it a little bit. This is me learning to use Twitter. 00:29:05.530 --> 00:29:23.205 I think I made an account, like, a decade ago, and I haven't really used it. So It's funny. Yeah. It's been fun to learn. You have, like, just a few tweets, but, like, this, you know, this one, you figured it out. You say, I'm Boris. I created Cloud Code. Lots of people have asked for how I use Cloud Code, so I want to show 00:29:23.605 --> 00:29:43.215 off my setup a bit. My setup might be surprisingly vanilla. Cloud Code works great out of the box, so I personally don't customize it much. There's not no one correct there's no one correct way to use Cloud Code. We intentionally built it in a way that you can use it, customize it, and hack it however you'd like. Each person on the Cloud Code team use it very differently, so here it goes. 00:29:43.695 --> 00:29:45.375 Could you just talk about 00:29:46.575 --> 00:29:52.415 some of the just expand on some of these and and what you were saying, you know, what you were saying on here? Because I thought it was really interesting. 00:29:53.270 --> 00:30:04.470 Yeah. I'd love to. So this first one, it's very similar to what I was showing in co work where my job now isn't to go super deep on one task. It's to do a bunch of tasks in parallel. 00:30:04.950 --> 00:30:18.045 And so, you know, in the when I'm working on quad code, I I usually work in a terminal or on the mobile app. These are kind of the two services I use the most. But like I said, everyone on the team is different. Every user prefers something different, so we build all of these. 00:30:18.685 --> 00:30:33.410 And so usually what I do is I'll sort a task in kinda one tab. And once Claude is thinking about it and starting to work on a plan, I'll move on to the second tab. And I'll ask it to make a plan for the second thing. Then I'll move on to the third one, ask it to make a plan. And then finally, like, when, 00:30:33.890 --> 00:30:37.170 you know, I've run out of immediate tasks to do, I'll go back to the first tab. 00:30:37.625 --> 00:30:45.305 I'll see if the plan looks good. I might go back and forth a little bit. And then once the plan looks good, I usually go into just auto accept edits right away. 00:30:45.705 --> 00:30:53.950 Because I think with Opus 4.5, once the plan is good, the model can just execute it pretty much perfectly. This is definitely not the case with previous models. 00:30:54.270 --> 00:30:58.110 And so I think there was a lot of excitement about OPUS port 4.5 in 00:30:59.070 --> 00:31:14.115 you know, over the last couple months, and I I I think this is kind of one of the big reasons. It's just gotten very good at coding, but also excellent at planning. So once the plan is good, the code is good. And so, yeah, my my work now is just jumping between tabs, kinda tending to the quads, make sure they're unblocked, answering their questions. 00:31:14.435 --> 00:31:16.675 With co work, I think I think it's actually quite similar now. 00:31:17.820 --> 00:31:24.940 I like that. I'm gonna I'm gonna quote you on that. Once the plan is good, the code is good. Because that's so true. Right? Because if you nail the plan, 00:31:25.420 --> 00:31:26.540 the code should, 00:31:26.780 --> 00:31:29.020 you know the agents should do the work. 00:31:29.820 --> 00:31:34.935 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think, like, sometime last year, there was all this buzz about spec driven development. 00:31:35.175 --> 00:31:43.575 Yeah. And it just feels like it feels a little too QT and a little too rigid to me. But I think this is sort of a form of spec driven development. 00:31:43.815 --> 00:31:55.560 It's like there there is some kind of spec. I think it's just like a plan. That's all it has to be. It's just a text file. It doesn't have to be in a particular format. Once you have that, you're good. Number two, you say, I also run five to 10 clods 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:21.870 in in parallel with my local clods. As I code in my terminal, I will often hand off local sessions to web using and or manually kick off sessions in Chrome, and sometimes I will teleport back and forth. I also start a few sessions from my phone, obviously, from cloud iOS app, Picatu, every morning and throughout the day and check-in on them later. What do you mean by that? This morning, I kicked off, I think, like, three claws as soon as I woke up. 00:32:22.750 --> 00:32:29.865 I just had, like, some thought in the morning about, well, maybe I should, like, build this thing or fix this bug or whatever. I was, like, checking Twitter and someone had a bug report. 00:32:30.185 --> 00:32:38.905 So I just opened my phone and, you know, in the Quad app, you on on the left side, you click the little menu and there's a code tab. So you can just, like, access Quad code there. 00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:44.110 That's what I use for a lot of my code. And it's funny. I I never would have guessed that this is the way that I code. 00:32:44.430 --> 00:32:51.550 If you asked me a year ago, I would never have predicted that the way I code now is, like, probably half of it is just on my phone and that it sort of just works. 00:32:52.965 --> 00:33:08.140 And then web is kind of the other part. So once I've run out of tabs because it's just like, you know, it's kinda a pain to manage a bunch of different git checkouts because in each tab in my terminal, I actually have a totally separate git checkout. And I don't really use WorkTrees or anything like that. I just keep it pretty simple. 00:33:09.020 --> 00:33:15.420 And in web, if I if I just ran out of terminal tabs, I'll just start, like, overflowing to web and and starting tasks there. 00:33:15.820 --> 00:33:18.860 Beautiful. So, yeah, I also I so recommending 00:33:19.525 --> 00:33:20.725 use iOS, 00:33:21.205 --> 00:33:23.605 use web, open multiple, 00:33:23.605 --> 00:33:26.645 like, that's what that's you'll get the most out of it that way. 00:33:27.125 --> 00:33:32.805 Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And we have a Android app now too. So, yeah, just like use the mobile app and see how far that can take you. 00:33:33.780 --> 00:33:41.940 If it's not giving you good results, also make sure that you tune the environment setup and make sure that you invest in your quad dot m d. That's super duper important. 00:33:42.340 --> 00:33:44.580 And I talk about that in number four also. 00:33:45.060 --> 00:33:45.380 Mhmm. 00:33:46.065 --> 00:33:54.705 Number three, say, I use Opus 4.5 with Thinking for Everything. It's the best coding model I've ever used. And even though it's bigger and slower than Sonnet, 00:33:54.945 --> 00:33:56.625 since you have to steer it less 00:33:56.945 --> 00:34:02.700 and it's better at tool use. It's almost always faster than using a smaller model in the end. 00:34:03.340 --> 00:34:08.620 And cheaper. It's sort of counterintuitive and I had to explain this to people a few times. 00:34:09.340 --> 00:34:14.305 But because the model is smarter, it actually uses less tokens in the end. 00:34:14.705 --> 00:34:17.345 And it uses so many less tokens, 00:34:17.665 --> 00:34:19.105 it's often cheaper 00:34:19.345 --> 00:34:31.860 than using a smaller, less intelligent model even though the per token cost for that model is lower. A little counterintuitive, but, yeah, just use the smartest thing if you can. Well, we appreciate that. You know? We appreciate that. 00:34:33.060 --> 00:34:38.340 Number four, our team shares a single Claude MD for the Claude code repo. 00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:50.275 We check it into git. The whole team contributes multiple times a week. Anytime we see Claude do something incorrectly, we add it to the MD so Claude knows not to do it next time. Other teams maintain their own Claude MDs. 00:34:50.435 --> 00:34:53.155 It is each team's job to keep theirs up to date. 00:34:54.900 --> 00:35:13.105 And the QuadMD is just a text file, so there's no special format. People ask this all the time. Is there some special format that it has to be in it? No. It's just like it's just a text file, so you can put whatever you want in it. This is a screenshot of our QuadMD. This is literally it. So just really simple. And, you know, you you could format this kinda however you want. 00:35:13.665 --> 00:35:19.585 Love it. And then finally, I think yeah. Number five. Oh, no. You have a you got a few more. So 00:35:20.865 --> 00:35:23.825 number five, during code review, I'll often tag 00:35:24.600 --> 00:35:29.640 at dot claud on my coworker's PRs to add something to the CloudMD as part of the PR. 00:35:29.720 --> 00:35:32.360 We use the claud code GitHub action 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.440 for this. It's our version of Dan Chipper's compounding engineering. 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:38.760 What what do you mean? What is compound engineering? 00:35:39.515 --> 00:35:42.715 Yeah. Oh my god. So there's actually like two bugs in this tweet. 00:35:43.115 --> 00:35:47.195 I think I think Dan actually calls it compound engineering, not compounding engineering. 00:35:47.515 --> 00:35:50.715 And then the at dot quad, this is me learning how to use x. 00:35:51.115 --> 00:35:57.570 But it it's actually at quad. There's there's no dot. I just didn't I think there's like an actual user or whose name is Claude. I I didn't wanna tag them. 00:35:58.450 --> 00:36:03.810 But yeah. So so what you do is in Claude code, you run this slash command slash install GitHub action. 00:36:04.130 --> 00:36:08.610 And what this does is it installs the Claude app in your GitHub repo. 00:36:09.215 --> 00:36:14.175 And what that lets you do is you can then at mention Claude whenever you want and just have it make changes. 00:36:14.575 --> 00:36:19.055 And it can just work on PR. So it'll push back to your branch and it'll push the changes right back. 00:36:19.615 --> 00:36:22.815 You can also tag it on issues. You can tag it kind of wherever. 00:36:23.330 --> 00:36:27.170 I do this multiple times a day. It's it's really, really useful. 00:36:27.410 --> 00:36:30.770 I think one of the most common use cases is just like little fixes. 00:36:31.090 --> 00:36:33.650 I think the other one is updating the QuadMD 00:36:33.810 --> 00:36:39.010 to keep the knowledge base up to date. And, you know, you should never have to comment about something twice. 00:36:40.655 --> 00:36:43.215 Back when I was at Meta, something that I did is 00:36:43.855 --> 00:36:49.855 this is like in a in a previous life, a previous job. Something that I did is every code review that I did, I would keep a spreadsheet 00:36:50.415 --> 00:37:00.150 of all the issues that came up. And whenever the same kind of issue came up again, I would just like tally it up in the spreadsheet. And whenever something hit, I think, like five or 10 tallys or something, 00:37:00.470 --> 00:37:17.885 I would write a lint rule. And what that is is it's a way to automate that part of the code review so I don't have to comment about it again. And that was back in the days before LEMS and before the model was any good at coding. And so this is the equivalent nowadays. You just tag Claude, and you have it update your QuadMD, which is your team's knowledge base. 00:37:18.205 --> 00:37:22.765 So really simple. And what this means is you don't have to point anything out twice. 00:37:23.380 --> 00:37:33.620 I'm curious to see what this looks like for co work. I don't think we figured that out yet. But definitely for quad code, quad m d is kind of the this is the one the one thing that you should all be updating all the time. 00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:35.060 Love it. 00:37:36.015 --> 00:37:37.215 Number six, 00:37:37.455 --> 00:37:45.295 most sessions start in plan mode. If my goal is to write a pull request, I will use plan mode and go back and forth with Claude until I like its plan. 00:37:45.935 --> 00:37:48.095 From there, I switch into auto accept 00:37:48.335 --> 00:37:52.710 edit edits mode, and Cloud can usually one shot it. A good plan is really important. 00:37:53.270 --> 00:38:00.150 Yeah. Like I said, planning is just the most underused feature in Cloud Code. Actually, lot of people use it, but I I would say it's still underused. 00:38:00.790 --> 00:38:02.470 I use it for almost all my sessions. 00:38:03.135 --> 00:38:04.015 Yeah. 00:38:04.735 --> 00:38:05.455 It's 00:38:06.735 --> 00:38:11.215 it's a no brainer. So if you aren't already doing this, please do. 00:38:13.055 --> 00:38:14.415 Do we we've got 00:38:14.975 --> 00:38:23.350 you know, we're not gonna have time to do all of them. What are the I don't think because you have a hard stop. Do you wanna pick one or two to end with? 00:38:24.150 --> 00:38:25.350 Yeah. Let's do 00:38:26.950 --> 00:38:28.550 this would maybe number 13. 00:38:29.430 --> 00:38:36.125 Yeah. Number 13, I think this is probably in addition to using Opus four when people ask about how to get better performance out of quad code, 00:38:36.525 --> 00:38:39.565 there's three things that I recommend almost every time. 00:38:39.885 --> 00:38:43.325 Number one is use Opus 4.5 with thinking always. 00:38:43.645 --> 00:38:48.285 Don't try to use a different model because Opus will just give you better results and more efficiency overall. 00:38:48.890 --> 00:38:53.530 The second thing is make sure you have a good QuadMD. And then the third thing is this this tip number 13, 00:38:53.850 --> 00:39:06.135 which is give Quad a way to verify its output. And so we we just kinda saw with CoWork how good Quad is at using the Chrome extension in order to write email and in order to work with Sheets. 00:39:06.535 --> 00:39:12.295 And it's exactly the same thing. If I'm building an app, I always use the Chrome extension to have Quad test its own work. 00:39:12.775 --> 00:39:15.335 And if Quad can verify its own output, 00:39:15.575 --> 00:39:17.735 the result is gonna be way way better. 00:39:18.310 --> 00:39:19.830 And it's sort of like 00:39:20.550 --> 00:39:22.710 imagine that you're a painter and 00:39:23.270 --> 00:39:27.430 you make paintings and they have to be pretty good. They have to be maybe even photorealistic 00:39:27.430 --> 00:39:31.190 or something or just some kind of very detailed style. 00:39:31.885 --> 00:39:32.525 And 00:39:32.685 --> 00:39:46.605 you you have to wear a blindfold. You're just not gonna be that good. It's not gonna come out that great. Or it's the same thing for an engineer. Like, if you have to write code but you can never run the code or you can never see the output and you can never see the website. It's just not gonna be good. And so it's the same thing with Quad. 00:39:47.680 --> 00:39:51.520 As the model gets more intelligent, that first shot is gonna get better and better. 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.960 But really, you wanna give it a way to verify the output, 00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.640 and it'll be much better. So this is like running tests if you're an engineer, 00:39:59.775 --> 00:40:05.455 starting a server also if you're an engineer, or, you know, seeing seeing the output in a simulator or in a browser. 00:40:06.015 --> 00:40:06.895 Amazing. 00:40:07.375 --> 00:40:10.335 And the ultimate tip, I guess, is just get your hands dirty. Right? 00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:19.960 That's it. Yeah. I mean, there's no right there's no one right way to use the stuff. Like, you know, see see what's useful, see what's not, find your own workflows. 00:40:20.200 --> 00:40:24.680 It's sort of a I I heard someone describing QuadCode as like a find your own path 00:40:25.135 --> 00:40:30.575 book. You know, like one of those books where you have to like, do you do do you go to the dungeon or do you explore the forest? 00:40:30.895 --> 00:40:33.935 Like this kind of thing. Or or like a like an old RPG 00:40:33.935 --> 00:40:46.810 video game. It's just kinda like that. It's like it's very free form. There's no one right way to do it. So just see what works for you. Boris, I appreciate you taking the time, the generosity to spill the sauce and just to to share with us 00:40:47.210 --> 00:40:49.530 how we can get the most out of both 00:40:50.410 --> 00:40:51.850 Cowork and Claude Code. 00:40:52.615 --> 00:41:03.495 Everyone's thinking about it, everyone's trying to especially on this podcast, you know, the Start Up Ideas podcast, you have millions of people who are trying to figure out how I can be more productive and how I can build businesses around some of these things. So thank you. 00:41:03.895 --> 00:41:04.775 Thank you for the time. 00:41:05.910 --> 00:41:11.990 I'll include links on where to follow Boris. He doesn't tweet a lot, but when he tweets, it's it's worth paying attention to. 00:41:12.470 --> 00:41:17.190 And I just have I wanna leave with one thing just because my audience would kill me if I didn't ask this. 00:41:17.590 --> 00:41:21.045 So as you know, Boris, I'm from French Canada. 00:41:21.445 --> 00:41:25.045 And we speak French, obviously, in French Canada. And 00:41:25.285 --> 00:41:26.805 I call Claude 00:41:26.885 --> 00:41:27.845 Claude. 00:41:28.005 --> 00:41:29.285 Am I the only one? 00:41:32.910 --> 00:41:39.550 Oh, man. You're probably not the only one. A of the a lot of the world speaks French. Which one sounds better? 00:41:40.030 --> 00:41:41.950 What what feels I mean, me, 00:41:42.270 --> 00:41:49.135 Claude sounds better. It's like Jean Claude Van Damme, even though people would say Jean Claude Van Damme. It's like, 00:41:49.695 --> 00:42:03.585 that's my take. That's my hot take. To me, it sounds better. You know, Greg, I'm I'm gonna today around the office, I'm just gonna call it Claude, we'll we'll see what people say. I'll I'll report back. Okay. Report back. Alright. Sounds good. Boris, thanks again for coming on, 00:42:03.905 --> 00:42:06.705 and I'll see you next time. Yeah. Thanks so much, Craig.