WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.200 I don't ask if it'll go viral. I can figure out how to make it viral. That is an absurd thing to say. 00:00:06.800 --> 00:00:11.200 That's Jenny Hoyos, an 18 year old YouTuber who is absolutely 00:00:11.200 --> 00:00:14.355 crushing shorts. She's done over 600,000,000 00:00:14.355 --> 00:00:18.115 views in the past year alone, averaging 10,000,000 00:00:18.115 --> 00:00:18.835 views 00:00:18.995 --> 00:00:19.715 per 00:00:19.795 --> 00:00:20.675 video. 00:00:20.835 --> 00:00:24.355 How does she do it? I have analyzed thousands 00:00:24.515 --> 00:00:34.130 of shorts. I've analyzed all of mister b shorts, all of Ryan Trehan's shorts, and what I found was In this episode, you'll learn how to make anything go viral. 00:00:34.290 --> 00:00:38.210 I think you can make a video about anything. It's just adding 00:00:38.415 --> 00:00:55.000 an How to create the perfect short? Every second counts on a short. Like, every single second. Whatever you say you're gonna do, you end it right after you do it. The differences in short form content platforms Short form content is not the same across platforms. I noticed that YouTube 00:00:55.080 --> 00:00:56.040 likes 00:00:56.360 --> 00:01:00.920 And a hot take you might not be expecting. Retention doesn't matter as much as people think it does. 00:01:05.055 --> 00:01:28.940 You said this kind of aside. You said, well, I can make anything go viral. Like, if the idea is good, I can make I can make it go viral, which is an absurd thing to say. And I wanna hear what that means to you. How do you how do you make anything go viral? It's just adding story and a twist. Especially with Shorts, since, like, no one's actually having to click on your video. I think you can make a video about anything. You can make video about paint drying, 00:01:29.435 --> 00:01:39.675 and you can make it entertaining if there's a story around it and if the viewer is invested. What are your favorite ways to get people invested? How do you how do you make a story that people care about? I think my content is very personality 00:01:39.675 --> 00:01:53.220 based, I'd say. So for me, making it personal makes them invested. I'll give you an example. I actually did this in a long form. In the video, I cooked for strangers to make money. Okay. Very baseline. Why should they care? 00:01:53.620 --> 00:01:55.540 Well, my kitchen is broken 00:01:55.875 --> 00:01:56.675 and 00:01:56.755 --> 00:02:17.260 I wanna raise money for it by cooking and making money. You know, it's it's ironic, like, I'm My kitchen's broken, so in order to fix it, I have to cook to make money. So I think that's what makes people invested having like some sort of personal why or goal. And irony too is pretty funny. I like that. I like that. Irony, juxtaposition. 00:02:17.340 --> 00:02:19.500 Jenny's the hero of the story. Exactly. 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:24.540 What makes a good short? When I think of good, it's very subjective. 00:02:25.195 --> 00:02:30.315 So there's no direct definition as to what makes a good short because everyone has different tastes. 00:02:30.635 --> 00:02:35.915 But I can say what makes a good short to me. Okay. Let's hear that. To me, a good short is one that has 00:02:36.315 --> 00:02:48.980 a strong hook. And the way I like to explain it is if it could be used as a title and thumbnail on a long form, and I can it will still get clicks, then it'll work for a short. You know? So the hook needs to be very visual. 00:02:49.060 --> 00:02:57.845 You need to understand it without even listening to it, and it needs to be so simple, like, so simply said, like you said, explain to a five year old. So I think that's 00:02:57.845 --> 00:03:09.400 one of the key things. And then also just a story that just, you know, pushes you through, and not only do you watch to the end, but you rewatch it again. So that's what makes a good short to me. Let's say that you are 00:03:09.880 --> 00:03:15.880 planning or want to create a new video. How do you start thinking about hooks, or how do you generate hooks? 00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:18.920 Uh, it's it's very funny because I like to I like to see shorts, 00:03:19.315 --> 00:03:28.435 like, as, like even though I don't do that many long forms, I like to see shorts as if I'm making, like, a long form. So, like, I will sketch, like, almost as if it's title and thumbnails. 00:03:28.515 --> 00:03:39.940 So, like, I have my iPad and I draw, like, what would I visually want it to look like? What are different ways if I was to put it together, what would that look like? So when I'm making a hook, I just, like, keep drawing and sketching 00:03:39.940 --> 00:03:45.460 or, like, even just imagining until something just clicks. So the first thing is the visual, 00:03:46.055 --> 00:03:57.895 Easily, the first thing is the visual, and then I figure out how I'm gonna accompany that visual. And what I'm saying, I try to make it as concise as possible, and I'll put it in a readability checker, and then make sure that it's actually, like, understandable 00:03:57.895 --> 00:04:07.350 to at least, like, fifth grade or under. What's what's the readability checker that you use? Uh, I don't I don't know. I don't pay for it. It's readabilityformulas.com 00:04:07.350 --> 00:04:13.750 is the one I use. And you wanna be fifth grade or under? Fifth grade or under. Yeah. Have you have you played around with things that are 00:04:14.265 --> 00:04:23.225 older quote unquote than that and seeing that that's the level that it should be at or how did you arrive at fifth grade? Yes. So I have analyzed thousands 00:04:23.465 --> 00:04:24.345 of shorts 00:04:24.585 --> 00:04:27.625 as you may know. So I've like scraped, 00:04:27.625 --> 00:05:21.375 you know, the scripts of a bunch of shorts and I've put it in this readability checker, and I've noticed that the most popular shorts, especially MrBeast. You know, MrBeast is one of the best shorts creators, and his is, like, in first grade level. So I just basically, like, after scraping everything, that's when I realized, like, fifth grade and under is like, are about the range you wanna be at. Yeah. I think yeah. This is simply put. Yeah. How did you land on fifth grade? Was that the average of all of these? I'm not gonna lie. The readability can sometimes be off, but it was, um, it was just like at a range. Because I I believe like like, Eirac, for example, is like slightly higher. I don't know the exact number on the top of my head, but I I just noticed that, like, a good in between is fifth grade. But I will say the problem with the readability is especially, like, with content like mine, you can change the readability from fifth grade to like, eighth grade by simply using the word business. Mhmm. Which is why I try to avoid things like that, or if you use the word finance, 00:05:21.615 --> 00:05:24.575 or if you use like, for example, profit. Instead of saying profit, 00:05:24.990 --> 00:05:36.590 I just explain the definition of profit Mhmm. Every time I talk about it. I did not know this about you. I did not know that you analyzed thousands of Shorts by scraping the titles and the transcripts. Can you tell me more about that? 00:05:37.485 --> 00:05:46.925 Yeah. So it's so funny because, like, basically, the way I do it is, you know, when you go onto YouTube and you open up a Short, it sends you, like even on desktop, it sends you to, like, this Shorts 00:05:47.165 --> 00:05:52.445 page or whatever. Yeah. But if you change the URL to, like, watch question mark 00:05:52.630 --> 00:05:55.510 v equals then the URL, 00:05:55.670 --> 00:06:00.390 then it will send you to, like, the actual YouTube page, and then you can just click transcript, 00:06:00.390 --> 00:06:24.660 copy and paste that transcript, and then I just check the readability. But I also, like, check other things, you know, I just analyze why these shorts are working. So interesting. So interesting. I I would love to hear anything else that comes to mind as you were looking at all this that starting to help you pull together your own short strategy because I did not realize that you've done all this research and pulled all this together. This gets me very, very excited. As the creator science guy, 00:06:24.980 --> 00:06:25.700 I am 00:06:26.500 --> 00:06:35.780 super Yeah. Excited about this this research. Yeah. So I've also, like, deeply analyzed all of my videos, and I think that's where you learn the most. Everyone has different audiences. 00:06:36.395 --> 00:06:40.315 So what works for MrBeast might not work for me. Right? 00:06:40.555 --> 00:06:49.435 So what I did was, like, I did my own little experiment. Like, when I knew I wanted to get into shorts, I told myself I was gonna upload every day for as long as possible. 00:06:49.755 --> 00:06:58.450 And I think I only got, like, a week or two in. It it didn't it didn't I didn't I didn't get that far, but the goal was essentially to upload as much as possible. 00:06:58.770 --> 00:07:01.890 Quantity is what makes quality. When I was doing that quantity, 00:07:02.130 --> 00:07:09.595 I would analyze my retention graph. And this is just like one example I'll just pull out for you. So there was one video after five days, 00:07:09.995 --> 00:07:15.675 I got I think it was like 50,000 views in five days. Right? Which I on average, I usually get like a million. 00:07:16.155 --> 00:07:19.195 So I was not happy with the performance. 00:07:19.530 --> 00:07:26.170 And I pulled up the retention graph, and I noticed on the last second, it was a huge dip. It was 70%. 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:28.890 One second later, it was 45%. 00:07:28.890 --> 00:07:32.970 Like a 25% drop in one second, and the retention was 83%. 00:07:33.525 --> 00:07:36.005 So what I did was I went to YouTube studio, 00:07:36.245 --> 00:07:45.205 I trimmed off that one second. YouTube removed this feature, by the way. YouTube, please bring it back. But just by removing that one second at the end, it went from 83% 00:07:45.900 --> 00:07:47.260 to 88%, 00:07:47.340 --> 00:08:00.460 and the video went flying. And that that's why, like, every second counts on a short, like, every single second. Because when you think about it, let's say you have a thirty second short. Right? If you lose one second, that's already 97%. 00:08:00.460 --> 00:08:01.420 That's three percentages. 00:08:01.865 --> 00:08:07.705 You know, if you have lose two seconds, that's 6%. So when you think about it, I'm sure it's like, you're not just losing 00:08:07.945 --> 00:08:09.065 one second, 00:08:09.305 --> 00:08:22.230 you're losing double or even triple because that one second accumulates to two or 3% of the video. The takeaway here, I believe, is that you really want in a short high retention, of course, we want high retention in everything. 00:08:22.390 --> 00:08:25.110 But I've heard some people talk about you really want people to 00:08:25.430 --> 00:08:31.255 sometimes loop and watch even into a repeat Yes. Of the thing. Is that true? Yes. 00:08:31.255 --> 00:08:47.360 Yes. And I'll explain why. The average scroll through rate, which is basically like on YouTube shorts, you can see what percentage who like, what percentage of people viewed versus swiped away. And I like to call it scroll through rate. But the average scroll through rate is like 70%. 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:51.920 You wanna get that as high as possible. My personal scroll through rate is like 85%. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:52.800 So 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.280 my average scroll through rate is 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:56.800 85%, 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:58.560 but my average retention 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:00.000 is 95%. 00:09:00.395 --> 00:09:02.155 If only 85% 00:09:02.155 --> 00:09:05.435 of people are watching it, how does the retention subtly get to 00:09:05.915 --> 00:09:06.875 95%? 00:09:06.875 --> 00:09:11.835 It's because they're rewatching it. So to have that, like, 90 plus percent retention, 00:09:11.915 --> 00:09:23.620 which is like, in my opinion, the bare minimum, like, for a short to blow up, you need them to watch it again. So 90% is your benchmark. That's what you're looking for for retention for something that will have the the virality 00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:29.475 and reach that you're accustomed to at this point? For the most part, yes. I will say it depends on 00:09:29.715 --> 00:09:32.035 the amount of impressions because 00:09:32.115 --> 00:09:34.435 my videos average like 95% 00:09:34.435 --> 00:09:37.235 retention, but we're talking like that's on 10,000,000 views. 00:09:37.750 --> 00:10:00.045 So that's like, it's very difficult to do. Right. So, yeah. Okay. So you mentioned that with the hooks, you think about the visual nature of it. Are you talking about the first frame of the actual video? Yes. I'm talking about the first frame. I don't know how many shorts you've seen, so I'll try and explain it. But I I've seen more than one, but less than you. So let's let's assume on the low end. Yeah. 00:10:01.325 --> 00:10:07.170 I have this series where I remake fast food items for a dollar. Instead of like showing 00:10:07.170 --> 00:10:08.130 my face, 00:10:08.530 --> 00:10:12.690 I show the location. I show the front of the location. 00:10:12.930 --> 00:10:32.500 Because obviously, like more people know the fast food location than they know me. The easiest way to describe like the video just visually is by showing the fast food item in front of the location. So usually, it's so funny. I would have the logo in the middle, and then I'll put the food item here, and then right in the middle, I'll put like $1 00:10:32.500 --> 00:10:33.300 burrito, 00:10:33.380 --> 00:10:38.660 $1 sandwich, $1 burger. So then it's like, you perfectly see it. It's always perfectly aligned, 00:10:38.820 --> 00:10:54.975 and it really helps for a bench ability too because it's actually a playlist, and I get a lot of views from people like just, like, watching it down, and they they just know it's me every time they see that framing. So interesting. Was this all trial and error, or did you model this this style of of framing 00:10:54.975 --> 00:10:56.815 and hook off of 00:10:57.370 --> 00:11:01.530 anyone in particular? It's definitely like trial and error. 00:11:01.770 --> 00:11:12.385 At first, I started by, I guess, can say stealing. Like stealing like an artist because that's how to me, I I believe that's how you learn. Sure. You obviously want to find your own style. 00:11:12.785 --> 00:11:22.065 But I started by like copying other people's looks, and then I was looking at like, which percentage is the highest. So I it sounds so funny. So like 00:11:22.640 --> 00:11:37.655 a strategy, a technique is like, what would it sound like if this YouTuber made this video? And then I would make a bunch of hooks depending on that. So I'll have like a list of like the big 10, and then I'll just like, you know, have a bunch of different hooks, pick which one's my favorite, see the percentage, 00:11:37.975 --> 00:11:47.815 and then assess what's the best hook. Then I made my own twist into it. After a quick break, Jenny walks me through her process for coming up with great ideas. So stick around, we'll be right back. 00:11:49.160 --> 00:11:52.440 If you know me, you know how much I believe in memberships. 00:11:52.440 --> 00:12:04.915 My membership is the core of my business and I believe that earning a living directly from your audience is one of the most sustainable ways for you to become a professional creator as well. I So wanna tell you about today's sponsor, uScreen. 00:12:04.995 --> 00:12:56.440 UScreen is a beautiful all in one platform that helps content creators earn a living from their videos by unlocking predictable recurring revenue. 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What would you say is your proportion of like 00:12:57.105 --> 00:13:00.225 video ideas to videos you actually create? 00:13:02.305 --> 00:13:03.425 Oh gosh. 00:13:03.985 --> 00:13:20.630 Well, have like right now in a Google Doc, I have a list of a thousand ideas. Crazy. And I'm only doing 10. Crazy. So So these are It depends. These are a thousand ideas, not a thousand hooks. A thousand different video ideas that could each have multiple different hooks within them. Yes. 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:31.575 It's it's it's crazy. Yeah. Where do they come from? How do you generate that many ideas? Okay. There's a lot of ways. So one way is I just watch YouTube and then see what I personally, 00:13:31.655 --> 00:13:34.215 you know, like, wanna recreate and like twist. 00:13:34.695 --> 00:13:43.030 Or it's like, what video do I wanna watch? Or, um, as funny as it sounds, I also use AI. AI has some pretty good ideas. 00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:44.870 But the best ideas, 00:13:45.190 --> 00:13:46.710 at least for me personally, 00:13:47.590 --> 00:13:52.735 they come from just living it, and then thinking this is a video idea. 00:13:52.895 --> 00:14:04.610 So let me explain that. So one of my most popular videos is me making a garden. As funny as it sounds, because that sounds like it would get no views, yet it has, like, it has like 30,000,000 00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:05.730 views. Like, 00:14:06.130 --> 00:14:18.130 so That's a ton. There's so many ideas where something like this happen. One day I was eating ratatouille, because it's like one of my favorite foods. Right? And I'm like, I can't believe like it costs $20 to cook. And I'm like, 00:14:18.875 --> 00:14:22.635 but can't I just make a garden and then have unlimited ratatouille 00:14:22.635 --> 00:14:24.155 for like $5? 00:14:24.235 --> 00:14:50.025 And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's a video idea. So I'm like, now I gotta make a garden and then I'm gonna grow vegetables to have infinite ratatouille because it's my favorite food. So, like, that's where the story came from. Or, like, another time, my grandma, she was so funny. She got, like like, I think it was, like, laundry detergent in the mail or whatever. Like, free laundry detergent. I'm like, how'd you get free laundry detergent? That's, like, $30. 00:14:50.025 --> 00:15:13.280 And she was like, oh, I called the company, and I complained to them. I told them that they suck, and they sent me free laundry detergent. And I'm like, that's a video. I gotta do that. So it's like, you know, just things that I live and then I'm like, that needs to be a video. Those are my best ideas. So how do you go from a thousand ideas to narrow it down to 10? What is the deciding factor of which videos make the cut? Yeah. 00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:27.165 So I would say I narrow it I narrow it down to like like, let's say we have a 100, because a 100 is like an easier number to work with. So let's say we have a 100 ideas. I'll narrow it down to like 25, 00:15:27.485 --> 00:15:36.830 25 to 50. That's usually just based on like the first thing I ask myself is do I wanna make it? I don't ask if it'll go viral. I can figure out how to make it viral if I really wanna make it. 00:15:37.310 --> 00:16:04.250 So first, I tell myself, do I actually wanna make this? Is this actually logistically possible? And then it's like, is the hook good? Is the mechanism good? Are people gonna rewatch this? Then that's when I look at like, where's the virality aspect in this? Then I'll bring it down to 25. Then from there, I'll send it to, um, my video editor who's also like he's just like, he's really involved in the channel, so he's not just a video editor, he's also like a strategist, because, know, he's he he knows a lot about YouTube. 00:16:04.490 --> 00:16:14.735 And I'll send it to him, and he'll bring my 25 to like 10. And he'll basically, he'll go in and tell me like, even further if it actually seems viral, 00:16:14.895 --> 00:16:21.935 if he thinks it's shareable. But for him, like, he's really good at telling if if a concept is simple 00:16:22.175 --> 00:16:23.615 yet complex, 00:16:23.615 --> 00:16:30.330 if that makes sense. Mhmm. Mhmm. You mentioned a word a second ago. You said, is the mechanism good? What do you mean by mechanism? 00:16:30.410 --> 00:16:39.530 If they're going to be pushed till the end. So like, a good example is mister beast, the red circle, like, is it like last to leave circle wins $500,000. 00:16:39.845 --> 00:16:56.060 The mechanism is the circle is constantly closing. So the viewer is watching till the end. So if if it was just like, the circle wasn't closing, I don't know if anyone watched till the end. They'll just skip to the end probably. Interesting. What are some of the mechanisms that you've used? I think this is the easiest one that anyone can apply. It's basically saying, 00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:14.335 there's three steps or there's three things we need to do because it's very easy to follow, and you just show the list of three. So now the viewer knows that, oh, we're getting closer to the video. Like, they actually have a good expectation, which is probably one of the biggest things. I think that's I think that's why my videos, go viral. It's because people 00:17:14.735 --> 00:17:16.255 have a good expectation 00:17:16.415 --> 00:17:22.510 of what they're gonna watch and what's actually gonna be at the end. So when it comes to expectations, if you set expectations, 00:17:22.590 --> 00:17:30.990 do you find that then the the next step is completely following through on those expectations or do you ever try to like subvert expectations 00:17:31.070 --> 00:17:35.455 for an element of surprise or something? I try to follow those expectations, 00:17:35.855 --> 00:17:38.175 but then have a twist. For example, 00:17:38.495 --> 00:17:47.375 I gave my mom a $5 Mother's Day gift. The hook was, my mom's never had a Mother's Day gift. So I'm gonna change that and buy her the best present with $5. 00:17:47.375 --> 00:17:54.200 It was it was the why making them Karen the hook. My mom's never had a Mother's Day gift, so I'm gonna change that. Then the expectation 00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:58.360 is, so I'm gonna surprise her with a gift for $5. 00:17:58.520 --> 00:18:01.000 On screen, I'm showing me giving her the gift, 00:18:01.755 --> 00:18:06.235 but you're gonna see that till the end. So it's like, it's the the cold open, 00:18:06.475 --> 00:18:17.320 and then we cut to the video. So the expectation is by the end of the video, you're gonna see me give her a gift. So then I follow through and make the gift, and then I surprise her. Now I gave them the expectation, 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:21.400 I closed the loop that I'm gonna surprise her with this gift. But the twist was, 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:30.445 she ended up dropping the gift, it broke, and then she's like, you're the best daughter I've ever had. I'm like, uh, I'm your only one, video ends. 00:18:31.165 --> 00:18:56.980 So it's like, yeah, I I gave that expectation that I'm gonna gift her, and then we just twisted it at the end. How long would you say on average your shorts are? Oh, I know exactly the answer because I've done the analysis. Analysis. Okay. Okay. What's What's the the answer? Answer? It's it's exactly thirty four seconds because my most popular videos are exactly that length, so I try to make it exactly that length. That was gonna be my next question. Was to say, do is that now your your benchmark for what you're looking for in a video? Thirty four seconds? Yes. 00:18:57.715 --> 00:19:02.115 So Yes. Everyone's is different. Everyone gotta analyze it like for their their own channel. 00:19:02.355 --> 00:19:13.020 And I think I've seen well, was in, uh, I was in Pat Galloway's accelerator and he showed some research that he had done to show like depending on your short length, this is the bar for retention 00:19:13.020 --> 00:19:16.780 you should be shooting for. So I'm guessing that 90 00:19:16.780 --> 00:19:25.900 retention is also related to the average total length of your videos. Whereas if it's shorter, maybe you need retention to be higher to achieve the same virality. 00:19:26.435 --> 00:19:27.315 Exactly. 00:19:27.315 --> 00:19:29.795 Yes. Correct. So for me, 00:19:30.035 --> 00:19:36.755 for my personal channel, like I said, like, there's no specific number. I think everyone just has to check out their analytics. 00:19:36.755 --> 00:20:25.585 But for me, I noticed if a short is less than thirty seconds, it needs to. It has to have over a 100% retention or else it's not gonna take off. Wow. So that's why I like to make it slightly longer. But too long is too long for my audience since I do have a very young audience. If you know that you want your videos to be about thirty four seconds, I'm thinking if it's thirty four seconds and you know that you want your last second retention to be really high, it seems like the payoff is like literally the last second. So now we got thirty four thirty three seconds to work with. You probably know how long your hook generally is. So maybe that's you know, three seconds or five seconds, and you have this remainder of twenty eight to thirty seconds in the middle. Do you break that down into specific pieces of the mechanism, or is that just kind of whatever happens in the edit? Yeah. So it's usually whatever happens in the edit. But what I do check is 00:20:26.065 --> 00:20:29.905 before I film the video, I will do a rough script 00:20:29.985 --> 00:20:46.640 even if it's not even what happens in the video. Like, I'll just roughly, you know, do it and I can just change it later. And from there, I'll have a sense of how long it is just from the word count. But I don't necessarily force it. I just let it free flow like you said in the edit. But I do have a rough idea of the word count, 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:48.480 and my hooks, 00:20:48.560 --> 00:20:49.520 and foreshadow. 00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:59.005 I always do that in every video. I do a hook, and then I foreshadow, which is two lines. And that is usually three seconds or less. And foreshadow, you're saying that's in 00:20:59.645 --> 00:21:05.005 that's in the voice over. Because I know you mentioned like the the example of your your mom's gift. 00:21:05.560 --> 00:21:12.280 When you see her grab the package, that's foreshadowing in a way, but that's completely visual. You're saying you dedicate some spoken 00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:12.680 time 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:30.355 to foreshadowing as well. Yes. I always have spoken time to foreshadowing it. Like it doesn't matter what video idea it is. Like like like, let me just pull up like a random idea, like, I'm going to the beach. Right? And then it's like, why would someone watch? So that's the hook. I'm going to the beach, and what's the foreshadow? 00:21:30.755 --> 00:21:39.290 I'm going to the beach, and I'm gonna surprise someone with a $100 at the end of the video. It could literally be with anything. It just needs to have some sort of expectation. 00:21:39.370 --> 00:21:41.610 I wanna keep going down this the structure 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:54.735 rabbit hole a little bit more because I keep finding new layers. Like, I didn't know foreshadowing is part of your structure. So is there anything that comes after the hook and foreshadowing that is a structural part of every video? Yes. There actually is. 00:21:55.215 --> 00:22:03.135 So it will usually be hook, which is really short, then I'll foreshadow what's gonna be at the end, then I have to smoothly transition. 00:22:03.455 --> 00:22:04.015 So 00:22:04.490 --> 00:22:07.370 I used to have like a lot of breaks because 00:22:07.610 --> 00:22:16.330 you want to give people time to breathe. Right? Because you don't want to be like, I'm gonna be doing this and this and this and this and this this and video's over. I didn't like, they they're not gonna understand anything. 00:22:16.955 --> 00:22:27.515 So you want a pacing break without the pacing actually breaking. Let me explain what I mean by that. This I did this in my recent video. So it was like, McDonald's banned this item, 00:22:27.755 --> 00:22:28.395 hook. 00:22:28.715 --> 00:22:32.395 So I'm gonna make it at home, then convince them to put it back on the menu. 00:22:33.170 --> 00:22:34.530 That's the foreshadow. 00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:40.850 And then at first, I wrote, let's get started, but that breaks pace. So instead of saying, 00:22:41.090 --> 00:22:43.970 let's get started, I said, so I cooked illegally. 00:22:43.970 --> 00:22:53.875 That that just flows better. So I I don't wanna give, like because I already gave, like, two crucial pieces of detail. So if I give any more detail, they're just gonna forget about that, like, primacy recency. 00:22:54.115 --> 00:23:08.000 Uh, if you I can get into that. So it's like they're gonna forget what I just said. So we need a pacing break without the pacing actually breaking. That makes sense. Yeah. Totally. Okay. Let's keep going down this this trail. Is there is there more structural pieces past the transition? 00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:08.960 Usually, 00:23:09.360 --> 00:23:11.600 it's just like problem solution 00:23:11.600 --> 00:23:13.760 or but they're for storytelling. 00:23:14.335 --> 00:23:17.055 Okay. Tell me more about but therefore storytelling. 00:23:17.215 --> 00:23:17.935 Basically, 00:23:18.095 --> 00:23:19.455 but therefore but 00:23:19.455 --> 00:23:20.575 therefore storytelling, 00:23:20.575 --> 00:23:25.055 simply put, is just lots of change in the story. So a story 00:23:25.295 --> 00:23:31.060 stories can't be stories without change. For example, I went on a walk, then it started raining, 00:23:31.540 --> 00:23:32.260 then 00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:36.980 I went back home. It was much more boring than if it was like, 00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:39.460 I went on a walk, but it started raining. 00:23:40.225 --> 00:23:56.760 Therefore, I started running back home and I I I was raining all over me. But good thing I had a handy umbrella while was on my way back. Therefore, I got home. Like, it's the exact same story but it just sounds so much more intriguing when you have like, but Yeah. Or So 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:06.840 but therefore. I'm so glad that you're able to like whip up these examples on the fly. This is must be very stressful. The the spots I'm putting you on, but you're just like, I got it. 00:24:08.115 --> 00:24:08.835 Yeah. 00:24:09.395 --> 00:24:19.155 So if I'm thinking from an order of operations standpoint, I'm I'm making some assumptions I'm realizing and I wanna make sure I'm correct in them. It sounds like you have ideas first, 00:24:19.475 --> 00:24:27.480 then you narrow that down to a small number of ideas and ultimately a video you say, yes. This idea, my editor and I have decided is a good one. 00:24:27.800 --> 00:24:30.440 Uh, you come up with versions of the hook, 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.320 and then it seems like you you start recording. 00:24:33.560 --> 00:24:35.000 And after recording, 00:24:35.080 --> 00:24:36.745 you start editing, 00:24:36.745 --> 00:24:38.585 and then after editing comes 00:24:38.665 --> 00:24:40.665 the transcript for the voice over. 00:24:40.905 --> 00:24:45.545 Did I get that right? You were close. You were close. Like you said, ideas, 00:24:45.705 --> 00:24:49.600 then I find that one idea. Then I'll write my hook. 00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:52.400 Then, I'll write the last line. 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:57.120 So I always know the last line when I'm going to film. Then, I'll go back 00:24:57.360 --> 00:25:07.065 and then after the hook, I figure out how I'm going to foreshadow that. I I will always have the hook for so I always have two lines. So it'd be like hook, foreshadow, and 00:25:07.625 --> 00:25:08.665 but in between, 00:25:09.065 --> 00:25:23.700 it would be like it depends on the video. Sometimes it will be a rough script like we were saying, so I can have that structure in mind, or it will just be bullet points of things I wanna touch on while I'm filming. Then, I will film. 00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:29.620 Once I filmed, I will revisit the script again, revise it, finalize it, 00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:30.900 then it goes in edit. 00:25:31.585 --> 00:25:39.585 How do you write the last line without knowing what comes out in the filming? It's you'd like leave it in blank. So it would be like, 00:25:39.825 --> 00:25:41.505 for example, if 00:25:41.985 --> 00:25:45.710 I'm surprising someone with a gift, the last line would be then 00:25:46.430 --> 00:25:57.790 like it's so simple. Then I surprised my mom and and then blank. So it's usually Because, know reaction. Just to have a general idea. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Okay. I was watching your videos this morning and I I was like really 00:25:58.365 --> 00:26:03.325 I I took note of the fact that they all end very abruptly. 00:26:03.325 --> 00:26:11.725 But like not in a way where I'm like, what happened? It's it's like it's pleasing but it is abrupt and we already talked about how you you kind of learn this and you turned it off. But it is like, and I surprised my mom and, 00:26:12.530 --> 00:26:20.370 you know, and then and then her reaction and then and. You mentioned a moment ago that the age of your audience is typically a little bit younger. How much do you think about 00:26:20.610 --> 00:26:24.210 who the audience is when you think of ideas? 00:26:24.645 --> 00:26:31.365 You know, because in my world, to to just step back a second. In my world, lot of times, folks have like a very specific avatar 00:26:31.365 --> 00:26:40.820 that they're creating for who's trying to achieve some sort of specific goal. I don't think that's the same in more of the entertainment space. So I'd love to hear to what level of detail 00:26:41.220 --> 00:26:41.940 you 00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:50.580 think about an audience member in your mind. Yeah. That's everything. Avatar is everything. So for me, I will think of like specific 00:26:50.580 --> 00:26:51.140 people. 00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:59.685 So I will think of like me when I was younger. I'll think about like These these are my favorites to think about by the way. My my nieces 00:27:00.565 --> 00:27:07.685 are 10 years old. 10 I have two nieces that are seven and 10, and they just moved to America 00:27:07.390 --> 00:27:10.190 last year, so they barely understand English. 00:27:10.590 --> 00:27:26.745 And that's that's who I wanna speak to. It's it's very tough because they might not be interested in the topic, but if I can make them interested, and especially if it makes sense to them as non English speakers, then it's probably really good. So that's the way I see it. It's not necessarily thinking of like, 00:27:27.145 --> 00:27:29.465 their their dreams, their desires, 00:27:30.265 --> 00:27:54.705 but more so how can you speak to them. So I just it just I don't know if that makes sense because it's like, it's it's different. It it makes sense. It's interesting for me to hear because I just don't speak to folks on the more entertainment side of the creator world as often. So actually, it's I'm just coming at it from natural curiosity to hear how you do think about it. I would imagine at the level of views you're getting, tens of millions on these on these videos, 00:27:55.105 --> 00:28:14.690 it's a broad spectrum of people who are looking at this. So who do you who do you choose as the core of, yes, people outside of this type of person, maybe it's my nieces, will watch this, but I'm making it for this person in particular. I didn't know if you had that specificity or not. Like I said, I do and I don't. So it's in the sense of like, I 00:28:15.570 --> 00:28:17.970 it's mainly like my younger self, 00:28:18.530 --> 00:28:29.495 which is like kind of weird because I can't actually my younger self can't actually watch it, but that's like the way I think of it, if that makes sense. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Can we talk a little bit about 00:28:29.975 --> 00:29:14.950 Instagram Reels and TikTok and how you think about those? A lot of times people think short form vertical video, it's same everywhere. Choose wherever you're leading and then just post it to all three. And it's clear that your your YouTube is is much bigger than the other two platforms. Mhmm. And those other platforms are much bigger than mine, so that's not a judgment on you. So I'm curious what you're hearing or what you're experiencing in terms of how this does or does not translate. Hey, real quick before they respond, I wanna let you know that there are bonus audio only episodes of Creator Science that air every Tuesday when we don't publish a video. Episodes like number one fifty six where I talk with my editor Connor about our first year on YouTube or number 37 with Ali Abdaal. If that's interesting, just search for Creator Science wherever you listen to podcasts. 00:29:15.030 --> 00:29:20.075 Alright. Back to the show. Yeah. So short form content is not the same across platforms. 00:29:20.235 --> 00:29:39.760 And I know this because I used to do very well on TikTok before I was doing well on YouTube. In fact, when I had like a thousand subscribers on YouTube, I had like 70 k on TikTok. So I was doing much better, and I was averaging, like, a million views per TikTok. What was crazy is I remember, in this in this point, I was posting to all three platforms, 00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:41.600 but TikTok was getting all the views. 00:29:42.525 --> 00:30:01.250 YouTube shorts and Instagram reels were getting, like, none of it. Were you thinking about one of those platforms as, like, your lead platform at that time? It was definitely TikTok. So you're thinking, I'm making this video for TikTok. I'm also posting to reels, and I'm also pointing to posting shorts. Correct. But it wasn't edited on the TikTok app. Like, would still be filmed, 00:30:01.330 --> 00:30:02.930 you know, like professionally 00:30:02.930 --> 00:30:30.170 and then edited it and then posting on TikTok. The same video that would get 1,000,000 views on TikTok would get a thousand views on YouTube Shorts. And I was like, okay. Let me switch a strategy because I bought banned on TikTok, like, for a short period of time. I'm like, let me focus on YouTube. And then the opposite happened. I started averaging 1,000,000 views on YouTube and then a thousand on TikTok. I'm like, this is really strange. Like, these platforms definitely want different content. And what I found, YouTube 00:30:30.250 --> 00:30:31.290 likes 00:30:31.770 --> 00:30:33.370 definitely a slower, 00:30:33.610 --> 00:30:34.650 more mature 00:30:34.890 --> 00:30:46.225 you know, it's a more mature audience, so they want, like, a slower pace and more story. So those would be, like, the thirty four second tick thirty four second shorts that I'm making right now. TikTok, on the other hand, did not like did 00:30:47.025 --> 00:30:53.620 not like videos over thirty seconds. It liked ten to twenty second videos that were just, like, dense with information, 00:30:53.860 --> 00:30:55.140 not that many jokes, 00:30:55.300 --> 00:31:00.900 just like, you know, just just scrollable. They're just trying to scroll as much as possible. For Instagram reels, 00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:09.045 was also slightly more mature, but because they have that mute feature, a lot of those videos would be very visual and would have like subtitles 00:31:09.045 --> 00:31:10.085 in every second 00:31:10.405 --> 00:31:14.885 and would have like a lot of shareability since it's very it's it's very easy to share on Instagram. 00:31:15.045 --> 00:31:22.460 How do you think about long form now? Is it something that you aspire to do more of? How does it play into the Jenny Hoyos universe? 00:31:22.540 --> 00:31:25.420 Yes. The Jenny Hoyos universe sounds like the MCU. 00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:29.500 But, yeah, I I really wanna get into long form. 00:31:29.980 --> 00:31:38.765 I want to become established there. Basically, what I did to Shortz is exactly what I'm doing to long form. I have been studying long forms for the past year, 00:31:38.845 --> 00:31:43.485 learning as much as I can, analyzing everything, and now it's just time to execute. 00:31:43.725 --> 00:31:55.800 So the goal is to pull off what I did on Shortz on long form, and then just, you know, upload a, uh, upload a good amount between them. I'm never gonna quit shorts. It's just gonna be a good balance 00:31:56.520 --> 00:32:06.655 between the two. What does long form represent to you that it's a priority? You know, you're so good at shorts. You're you're like at the top of the mountain there. Why is long form something that's calling to you? You know, 00:32:06.975 --> 00:32:07.695 I think 00:32:08.655 --> 00:32:13.695 I mean, it's a lot of reasons. It's I feel I it's it's kind of tough saying it, but I think that they simply put, 00:32:14.830 --> 00:32:20.830 I don't see that much more growth for me in shorts. Like, sure, I can start averaging like a 100,000,000 views, 00:32:21.150 --> 00:32:29.150 but it's like, the real growth and fun is gonna come from learning long form. This is all about the journey. You know, it's like, 00:32:29.925 --> 00:32:35.285 it sounds so bad to say, but I feel like I've already achieved my goal for sure, like, for shorts, 00:32:35.765 --> 00:32:37.285 you know. And it's like I wanna, 00:32:37.765 --> 00:32:44.165 you know, challenge myself again. I just don't feel like I'm challenging myself with shorts. This is a guess in short. Yeah. No, it's valid. I 00:32:45.120 --> 00:33:01.545 your your reasons are your reasons, and they're totally valid. I was I was I was wondering if that had anything to do with like, is the relationship to the audience different in long form? I'm sure there's more money in long form. And I was wondering if those were part of the decision or if it was just a, you know, time to climb a new mountain type situation. 00:33:01.625 --> 00:33:06.665 I will say as ironic as it sounds, money is not the reason why. Like, when I first, 00:33:06.985 --> 00:33:10.825 like, started my entrepreneurship journey, I was like, money is everything. 00:33:11.145 --> 00:33:13.865 Right? But then when I I started YouTube, I realized like, 00:33:14.540 --> 00:33:23.980 it doesn't matter how much I'm making, like, I'm just doing this. So money, like, it's crazy. As funny as it sounds, because my content is all about money. I don't even care how much I'm making. Like, 00:33:24.540 --> 00:33:27.020 it's funny as it sounds. It's weird how it works. 00:33:27.340 --> 00:33:30.465 But yeah. Is it yeah. The yeah. It's just 00:33:31.185 --> 00:33:39.185 I think I think there is a better relationship with the viewer. I feel like it's just it's just more it's more it's more personal, 00:33:39.505 --> 00:33:45.770 you know? Like, you guys are spending more time together. For sure. I think it is like a time spent situation. 00:33:45.770 --> 00:33:58.705 Like, I feel like we really build trust as a function of time spent. And the more spent time you spend with somebody, like, the more of a relationship you build. Relationships are built on trust. Curious if you think that your 00:33:58.945 --> 00:34:15.070 shorts audience will transition into long form or if you're thinking about, you know, the audience themselves the same. Like, are these long form videos also going to be for your 10 year old nieces? It's it's a different audience, you know. It's really funny. I wanna tell this story because I thought it was absolutely 00:34:15.070 --> 00:34:15.870 hilarious 00:34:15.870 --> 00:34:18.190 and it's just gonna open up like 00:34:18.430 --> 00:34:22.270 because to me, it was it was huge. I had a little cousin 00:34:21.905 --> 00:34:26.305 visit my house. It was the first time I ever met her, because she was also from another country. 00:34:26.865 --> 00:34:27.425 And 00:34:27.985 --> 00:34:33.425 she she's like seven years old. She came into my house. First thing she said, I'm cousins with a famous YouTuber? 00:34:34.305 --> 00:34:39.770 It was so funny. And then the second thing she said, she was like telling me how like she loves my shorts. 00:34:39.930 --> 00:34:47.050 And she was like, you know what you should check out? I was like, I was on YouTube and I noticed like, they have these like horizontal videos 00:34:47.050 --> 00:34:48.250 that are like shorts, 00:34:48.330 --> 00:34:50.010 but just like long. 00:34:50.570 --> 00:35:02.005 And I was like, that was crazy. I was shocked. That's crazy. That type of thing breaks my mind. It's like it's like the videos where it's like, we asked Gen Z to listen to and it's like insert band from my childhood here and like, this is bad. 00:35:02.565 --> 00:35:03.285 Exactly. 00:35:04.005 --> 00:35:09.820 It was one of those moments where we realized it opened. It was like, that those are really two different audiences. 00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:25.025 Because there's some people who probably don't even know long forms or a thing, and vice versa, some people that don't even know shorts or a thing. Then there's the people that know both. So I know I'm gonna get, you know, I'm not gonna get all of my audience. I have had some audience transition, 00:35:25.185 --> 00:35:46.020 but yeah, that's where I'm at. And you think that's a is that a YouTube thing or is that an audience preference thing? I think it's an audience preference thing for sure. Yeah. I think YouTube is doing like, as funny as it sounds, because I feel like a lot of Shorts creators, like, oh, I feel so bad saying this because I'm not one of them, but I'm calling them out. Like, there's Shorts creators who have, like, a million subscribers, 00:35:46.495 --> 00:35:54.335 then they don't even get, like, a thousand views on a long form. And then they're like, it's YouTube's fault. Yeah. But, like, in reality, it's, like, their fault. You know? Like, 00:35:54.975 --> 00:36:12.610 um, I average, like, 10,000,000 views on Shorts, and then on long forms, I'm averaging, like, 50 k views. You know? So it's like, I think they're doing a pretty good job at like transitioning them. Just obviously not everyone's gonna transition. Alright. Last question, which I love to ask people. Is there anything that you believe to be true? And we can relate it to YouTube or Shorts, 00:36:12.770 --> 00:36:14.450 but you don't yet have data to support. 00:36:15.055 --> 00:36:23.615 Oh, there's there's a couple. I'm trying to think what I should I I think I got a good one. I'm gonna say two. Okay? Because I'm I'm there's two that are really Bonus. 00:36:23.615 --> 00:36:26.335 I think shareability really matters, 00:36:26.975 --> 00:36:51.625 but I haven't done enough, like, analysis on that yet, but I'm sure I can do my own analysis. It's it's very tough because there's a lot of factors that come into play because, you know, I could argue this video has a lot of shares, that's why I blew up. But then I could also just argue that the retention was high. So do you really know? I I don't know. So that that's my hinge. I think shareability really does help. Although, will say, like, one of my shorts, 00:36:51.865 --> 00:37:02.320 it has, like, such high shares. It has, like what was it? It's like the shares to view ratio. It's 20%, which is extremely high. That seems very high. And this growth rate is, like, 92%, 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:07.520 which is insane. And it's probably because the shares are are that high. And then my second hunch is that 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:17.535 retention doesn't matter as much as people think it does. Say more. It's very interesting because I have a lot of friends like, who will send me their retention graphs, 00:37:17.615 --> 00:37:19.695 or like their data, their analytics. 00:37:20.255 --> 00:37:57.120 And there's people like, within like a similar amount of impressions as me, like, their retention will be so much higher than mine. Like, their friends, like, they would have, like, a forty second short that has, like, a 100 k views and over a 100% retention. And I'm like, oh my gosh. This video is gonna get, like, 10,000,000 views, and, like, it's it's not even niche either, but then it never it never does that. Then for me, like so yeah. Like, for me, what's crazy is, like, you know, I I've had a Short before where it had, like, 70% retention on the first 100 k views, which is, like, really bad. Like, really, really bad for Shorts. And it still got, like, 10,000,000 views because it was, like, all returning viewers. 00:37:57.600 --> 00:38:07.875 You know? So it's, I just have a hunch that, like, you know, like, I don't know I don't know what it is, what what how they're measuring it. It's just viewer satisfaction. It can't it can't just be retention. You know?